Letters of Interest/Update Letters - Conflicting Opinions

[readmypostsMD]

If at first you don’t succeed, write an update letter! - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Sort of confusing because adcoms here seem to denounce the value of letters of interest/update letters, yet this is featured on the front page of SDN

"However, I can give you my personal experience: when I found myself in your seat two years ago, I decided to send out nine update letters. I scored myself four “last-minute” interviews at medical schools that had not corresponded with me at all up to that point. What’s more, I turned three of those interviews into acceptances! So yes, while the time commitment is big, the payoff can be huge as well!"

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[Seihai]

Letters of intent are useless and seen as empty promises.

Update letters are useful and can add to your application as well as show continued interest.

 

[Blueprint Med School]

Letters of intent are useless and seen as empty promises.

Update letters are useful and can add to your application as well as show continued interest.

This. In fact, I often tell my students to start brainstorming their update letters when they are writing their initial AMCAS/ERAS applications. In a perfect world, your AMCAS/ERAS would start a narrative that you would continue with your update letter.

For example, how a current research project turned into a poster or publication.

David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

Contrary to what's been said above...

It's late in the cycle...
Minimal interviews left to be handed out...
Shoot your shot.

 

[Lawpy]

If at first you don’t succeed, write an update letter! - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Sort of confusing because adcoms here seem to denounce the value of letters of interest/update letters, yet this is featured on the front page of SDN

"However, I can give you my personal experience: when I found myself in your seat two years ago, I decided to send out nine update letters. I scored myself four “last-minute” interviews at medical schools that had not corresponded with me at all up to that point. What’s more, I turned three of those interviews into acceptances! So yes, while the time commitment is big, the payoff can be huge as well!"

You need to look at school policies on update letters and follow them accordingly. If they encourage update letters, send the updates to them. What schools say matters far more than whatever SDN recommends

 

[aldol16]

A well-written letter of intent/interest isn't going to hurt you. They might never read it or might read it and discard it but what does that cost you except an hour of your time? The potential benefits are high - they might decide to offer you an interview or an acceptance farther down the line. The cost-benefit ratio justifies doing it, but only if you write a well-written letter.

 

[Peter Pan.]

I’ve updated 6 schools. It depends on the school. Some in their portal welcome updates or if you call and ask they will say so. Some schools don’t want them. If a school encourages updates then definitely do it. Show continued interest. Got nothing to lose. Cycle is almost over. Shoot your shot.

SDN for me rarely gives bad advice but update letters are one of those times where they give bad advice. Reading some posts by adcoms here you would think updates are a waste of time and can even hurt your application. Like you’re gonna tick them off. Definitely not the case for some schools.

 

[deleted994889]

Contrary to what's been said above...

It's late in the cycle...
Minimal interviews left to be handed out...
Shoot your shot.

It might also expedite your rejection so you don't have to keep waiting. It's a win-win!

 

[Med Ed]

SDN for me rarely gives bad advice but update letters are one of those times where they give bad advice. Reading some posts by adcoms here you would think updates are a waste of time and can even hurt your application. Like you’re gonna tick them off. Definitely not the case for some schools.

To be fair, there was a significant structural change last cycle (the demise of the multiple acceptance report) that has changed the landscape considerably.

 

[KnightDoc]

I’ve updated 6 schools. It depends on the school. Some in their portal welcome updates or if you call and ask they will say so. Some schools don’t want them. If a school encourages updates then definitely do it. Show continued interest. Got nothing to lose. Cycle is almost over. Shoot your shot.

SDN for me rarely gives bad advice but update letters are one of those times where they give bad advice. Reading some posts by adcoms here you would think updates are a waste of time and can even hurt your application. Like you’re gonna tick them off. Definitely not the case for some schools.

TBH, that is exactly what the adcoms are saying. It might not be true at all schools, but it's definitely true at their schools. So, what do you do? You come on SDN to ask for help, and then reject that assistance because it's not what you want to hear, or because it conflicts with some anecdote someone else has!

Remember -- updates are distinguished from LOIs, which is what the adcoms are advising against. Nobody on SDN discourages substantive updates unless the school explicitly discourages them. Of course, updates are a way to demonstrate continued interest without sending a LOI.

To me, the adcoms here are the experts, not the premeds who insist their LOIs caused the sun to rise because they sent letters and, sure enough and exactly as they suspected, the sun subsequently rose.

 

[Med Ed]

Sort of confusing because adcoms here seem to denounce the value of letters of interest/update letters, yet this is featured on the front page of SDN

It is extremely confusing. Start with three types:

1. Update
2. Letter of interest
3. Letter of intent

Add two more variables:

1. Pre-interview offer
2. Post-interview

Add three more variables:

1. Sent early in cycle
2. Sent mid-cycle
3. Sent late in cycle

Estimate the quality of the contents:

1. Highly compelling
2. Moderately compelling
3. "Just thinkin' aboutcha!"

Factor in the receptiveness of each institution:

1. Early and often
2. If you want
3. Don't you dare
4. Unknown

Estimate the competitiveness of the applicant:

1. High
2. Moderate
3. Low
4. Non

I hope you can appreciate that it's often difficult to read these tea leaves and give consistent advice, especially now that the multiple acceptance report is gone.

A few years ago I was in the admissions office when an applicant was pulled off the wait list. When the admin went into the system it was noted that the applicant had just uploaded a letter of intent, literally minutes before. So the acceptance was pushed out, and a few minutes later a new email was received from the applicant that basically said "Thank you for the acceptance! Can I think about it?" Again, this was immediately after we received a typically flowery letter of intent from this individual, brimming with certitude. The person did end up matriculating but has yet to fully live it down.

 

[KnightDoc]

It is extremely confusing. Start with three types:

1. Update
2. Letter of interest
3. Letter of intent

Add two more variables:

1. Pre-interview offer
2. Post-interview

Add three more variables:

1. Sent early in cycle
2. Sent mid-cycle
3. Sent late in cycle

Estimate the quality of the contents:

1. Highly compelling
2. Moderately compelling
3. "Just thinkin' aboutcha!"

Factor in the receptiveness of each institution:

1. Early and often
2. If you want
3. Don't you dare
4. Unknown

Estimate the competitiveness of the applicant:

1. High
2. Moderate
3. Low
4. Non

I hope you can appreciate that it's often difficult to read these tea leaves and give consistent advice, especially now that the multiple acceptance report is gone.

A few years ago I was in the admissions office when an applicant was pulled off the wait list. When the admin went into the system it was noted that the applicant had just uploaded a letter of intent, literally minutes before. So the acceptance was pushed out, and a few minutes later that a new email was received from the applicant that basically said "Thank you for the acceptance! Can I think about it?" Again, this was immediately after we received a typically flowery letter of intent from this person, brimming with certitude. The person did end up matriculating but has yet to fully live it down.

And this is a perfect example of the applicant thinking his letter made the sun rise!!

 

[wysdoc]

It is extremely confusing. Start with three types:

1. Update
2. Letter of interest
3. Letter of intent

Add two more variables:

1. Pre-interview offer
2. Post-interview

Add three more variables:

1. Sent early in cycle
2. Sent mid-cycle
3. Sent late in cycle

Estimate the quality of the contents:

1. Highly compelling
2. Moderately compelling
3. "Just thinkin' aboutcha!"

Factor in the receptiveness of each institution:

1. Early and often
2. If you want
3. Don't you dare
4. Unknown

Estimate the competitiveness of the applicant:

1. High
2. Moderate
3. Low
4. Non

I hope you can appreciate that it's often difficult to read these tea leaves and give consistent advice, especially now that the multiple acceptance report is gone.

A few years ago I was in the admissions office when an applicant was pulled off the wait list. When the admin went into the system it was noted that the applicant had just uploaded a letter of intent, literally minutes before. So the acceptance was pushed out, and a few minutes later that a new email was received from the applicant that basically said "Thank you for the acceptance! Can I think about it?" Again, this was immediately after we received a typically flowery letter of intent from this person, brimming with certitude. The person did end up matriculating but has yet to fully live it down.

Your last paragraph is gold!

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

TBH, that is exactly what the adcoms are saying. it might not be true at all schools, but it's definitely true at their schools. So, what do you do? You come on SDN to ask for help, and then reject that assistance because it's not what you want to hear, or because it conflicts with some anecdote someone else has!

Remember -- updates are distinguished from LOIs, which is what the adcoms are advising against. Nobody on SDN discourages substantive updates unless the school explicitly discourages them. Of course, updates are a way to demonstrate continued interest without sending a LOI.

To me, the adcoms here are the experts, not the premeds who insist their LOIs caused the sun to rise because they sent letters and, sure enough and exactly as they suspected, the sun subsequently rose.

Yo, have you even taken the MCAT yet?

 

[KnightDoc]

Yo, have you even taken the MCAT yet?

Why? Am I not allowed to have a common sense opinion and post it unless I have a MCAT score to share with you?

 

[Peter Pan.]

Why? Am I not allowed to have a common sense opinion and post it unless I have a MCAT score to share with you?

You haven’t even applied yet and you’re in every thread pertaining to the application cycle like you know all the ins and outs of what it’s like applying. Maybe you should give so much advice when you haven’t even done this yet?

 

[readmypostsMD]

This is the key. most letters I have read are sound at best, unprofessional and at worst, whiny desperate pleas.

Do you have any personal insight into what makes a letter sound professional vs unprofessional?

 

[KnightDoc]

You haven’t even applied yet and you’re in every thread pertaining to the application cycle like you know all the ins and outs of what it’s like applying. Maybe you should give so much advice when you haven’t even done this yet?

Fair point, but I've been here for around a year, trying to learn and absorb as much as I can, and sharing what I think makes sense and has relevance.

I'm really not sure what special wisdom comes from simply filing an application, or sending a LOI, observing the sun rise and drawing a connection. I'm doing all the things everyone else either has done or is doing in anticipation of filing an application in the future. My opinions on LOIs are based on what I've seen here from adcoms, residents and attendings, not fellow premeds, and I really don't see them changing even when I do apply, and even if I don't have any IIs at the end of January.

I haven't seen a single post since March 2019 from a candidate who reported sending a LOI, getting an II, and telling us that the adcom told him that they weren't going to interview him, but found his LOI so moving that they just had to meet him in person.

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

Why? Am I not allowed to have a common sense opinion and post it unless I have a MCAT score to share with you?

Nah, I was just curious if you took your MCAT. But you got real defensive real quick

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

Fair point, but I've been here for around a year, trying to learn and absorb as much as I can, and sharing what I think makes sense and has relevance.

I'm really not sure what special wisdom comes from simply filing an application, or sending a LOI, observing the sun rise and drawing a connection. I'm doing all the things everyone else either has done or is doing in anticipation of filing an application in the future. My opinions on LOIs are based on what I've seen here from adcoms, residents and attendings, not fellow premeds, and I really don't see them changing even when I do apply, and even if I don't have any IIs at the end of January.

I haven't seen a single post since March 2019 from a candidate who reported sending a LOI, getting an II, and telling us that the adcom told him that they weren't going to interview him, but found his LOI so moving that they just had to meet him in person.

Yes, because all medical school applicants in the 2019 cycle are on SDN, right?

And if they are on SDN, they all report their LOIs and how much progress they’ve made with them, right?

 

[KnightDoc]

Nah, I was just curious if you took your MCAT. But you got real defensive real quick

Nope, but I will be soon.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes, because all medical school applicants in the 2019 cycle are on SDN, right?

And if they are on SDN, they all report their LOIs and how much progress they’ve made with them, right?

No, it's just that a bunch of people who are neurotic to start with and then begin to feel anxious and desperate as they hear all of the success stories reported here feel compelled to reinforce their worst instincts by insisting on engaging in conduct (LOIs pre-II) that is repeatedly reported to be ineffective, pretty consistently, by the adcom insiders who are kind enough to participate here.

There are no definitive reports of success here because they don't work, and it's just common sense.

IIs are granted based on whether an entire application looks attractive to a school, not based on how desperate an applicant is for an interview. Period. If you haven't made a compelling case for an interview through your primary and secondary (and whatever substantive updates you might have submitted), you have zero chance of impressing anyone by begging in January.

The fact that I am somewhat knowledgeable, and becoming more so every day, while having the objectivity of someone not personally involved in the cycle, should actually make my perspective more valuable, rather than less so, because I am not yet another desperate applicant looking for a justification to do something that couldn't possibly be effective.

I actually agree that, if they make someone feel better, they should absolutely send them, and nobody needs permission from SDN to do so. On the other hand, at least two adcoms have stated that the majority of them are poorly written, they never help (pre-II -- letters late cycle for people on WLs are an entirely different story), and they can actually hurt if a particularly poorly written or desperate sounding one happens to cross the desk of someone who was actually considering granting an II before the LOI was read.

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

No, it's just that a bunch of people who are neurotic to start with and then begin to feel anxious and desperate as they hear all of the success stories reported here feel compelled to reinforce their worst instincts by insisting on engaging in conduct (LOIs pre-II) that is repeatedly reported to be ineffective, pretty consistently, by the adcom insiders who are kind enough to participate here.

There are no definitive reports of success here because they don't work, and it's just common sense.

IIs are granted based on whether an entire application looks attractive to a school, not based on how desperate an applicant is for an interview. Period. If you haven't made a compelling case for an interview through your primary and secondary (and whatever substantive updates you might have submitted), you have zero chance of impressing anyone by begging in January.

The fact that I am somewhat knowledgeable, and becoming more so every day, while having the objectivity of someone not personally involved in the cycle, should actually make my perspective more valuable, rather than less so, because I am not yet another desperate applicant looking for a justification to do something that couldn't possibly be effective.

I actually agree that, if they make someone feel better, they should absolutely send them, and nobody needs permission from SDN to do so. On the other hand, at least two adcoms have stated that the majority of them are poorly written, they never help (pre-II -- letters late cycle for people on WLs are an entirely different story), and they can actually hurt if a particularly poorly written or desperate sounding one happens to cross the desk of someone who was actually considering granting an II before the LOI was read.

Good luck on the MCAT

 

[miniwumbo]

If at first you don’t succeed, write an update letter! - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Sort of confusing because adcoms here seem to denounce the value of letters of interest/update letters, yet this is featured on the front page of SDN

"However, I can give you my personal experience: when I found myself in your seat two years ago, I decided to send out nine update letters. I scored myself four “last-minute” interviews at medical schools that had not corresponded with me at all up to that point. What’s more, I turned three of those interviews into acceptances! So yes, while the time commitment is big, the payoff can be huge as well!"

How long would you recommend a update letter to be? I wanted to touch base with a school on my job promotion, new manuscript, and a charity I started in response to the pandemic

 

[tunaktunak]

Lol okay so I think the general consensus here is that update letters can be useful and the letter of interest/intent is useless and could potentially harm your chances.

Might be a dumb question, but what if the school explicitly states in its FAQ section online that update letters and letters of interest/intent are welcomed? Would you guys still consider sending an update letter as opposed to a letter of intent (a LOI would explicitly state that if accepted you will matriculate for sure)?

 

[miniwumbo]

Lol okay so I think the general consensus here is that update letters can be useful and the letter of interest/intent is useless and could potentially harm your chances.

Might be a dumb question, but what if the school explicitly states in its FAQ section online that update letters and letters of interest/intent are welcomed? Would you guys still consider sending an update letter as opposed to a letter of intent (a LOI would explicitly state that if accepted you will matriculate for sure)?

Interest > Intent if it's pre-II

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

How long would you recommend a update letter to be? I wanted to touch base with a school on my job promotion, new manuscript, and a charity I started in response to the pandemic

one page.

 

[tunaktunak]

Interest > Intent if it's pre-II

What if it's post decision (i.e. if you're waitlisted)? Or are any updates/LOIs at that point useless?

 

[KnightDoc]

What if it's post decision (i.e. if you're waitlisted)? Or are any updates/LOIs at that point useless?

Actually, that's when they are most useful. Prior to an actual decision, nobody is going to be swayed by an expression of intense interest/commitment/desperation. On the other hand, once the school has established interest by not rejecting you (post-II), THAT is the time to distinguish your intense interest from everyone else's, and hopefully get them to pull you off the WL over someone else, especially if they care about yield and believe that your interest is sincere. JMHO, but post decision WL is the very time to do it.

 

[gyngyn]

one page.

One paragraph, max.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

One paragraph, max.

even when there are multiple items?

 

[readmypostsMD]

Lol I remember posting this... I’m in med school now

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Lol I remember posting this... I’m in med school now

give your N=1 feedback

 

[miniwumbo]

One paragraph, max.

Got it, thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

even when there are multiple items?

No matter what.