Hi Guys! I was wondering if anyone knew which DO programs were the most LGBT friendly, and which ones should be avoided at all costs. I'm aware of the Touro-CA and NYCOM banning of LGBT advocacy organizations on campus, but I want to know if this is representative of the entire DO community, or just isolated incidents. Thanks!
LGBT and DO
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Really? Let me guess. You don't like people that discriminate against LGBT people yet you just essentially made a blanket statement against the whole bloody DO community?Hypocrite much?
I didn't get that from his/her post at all. Maybe you should read a bit more carefully before jumping down someone's throat for asking a question.
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Where did he make a statement like that? He asked a question. Given that so many groups are anti-homosexual, asking if this is one of them is legitimate. I would have never known Tuoro in CA was like that, especially since it is such a short ride from San Francisco.Really? Let me guess. You don't like people that discriminate against LGBT people yet you just essentially made a blanket statement against the whole bloody DO community?
Really? Let me guess. You don't like people that discriminate against LGBT people yet you just essentially made a blanket statement against the whole bloody DO community?
I'm not at all anti-DO - quite the opposite in fact. I AM however trying to gather information about a system of medical education which I'm not very well acquainted with. Many Allopathic schools allow/encourage LGBT student advocacy groups, and I've heard word that AAMC recognizes us as an underrepresented group in medicine. I was wondering if the same applies here, or if the schools I mentioned previously as well as your response were representative of the attitude of the system as a whole.
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Where can I check the gay box? Because if this helps in the admission process I am now gay!
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Crap, now I gotta find a rainbow tie and a pink shirt. At least it'll make the color of my eyes pop.
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for real? what was the reasoning behind that?
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..? AAMC doesn't really give benefits to gays. Not to mention telling a 70 year old adcom who's 95% of the time conservative your gay isn't going to sit well. They simply have advanced to the point where they don't discriminate on the basis of sexuality. This isn't the case with a few DO schools which haven't picked up on this policy. Others have and others do support the creation of gay advocacy groups. Others don't.
Personally I think that to some extent gays might get benefits because they can work in the community. But in all honesty there are A lot of gay doctors in the community around here.
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I know Touro-NY didn't allow one to be sustained or supported. But idk Touro is a religiously motivated institute.
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Crap, now I gotta find a rainbow tie and a pink shirt. At least it'll make the color of my eyes pop.
Well those colors sound delightful..... for family med
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I just graduated from a DO school and had interactions with other med students from other schools.
A story:
we had a girl in my class who was very aggressive with her sexual orientation for the first couple of weeks. Her anger at everything really was uncomfortable, because frankly the rest of us didn't care what her lifestyle was. Once she stopped being angry all the time she was a really great person and that's all we all cared about. There were apparently other folks in class who were bisexual, swingers, homosexual, etc. No one cared. We were all too busy studying and trying to help each other through med school. Gathering with family/friends? They brought their partners. No big deal. Moms and dads brought their kids. No big deal. Unless the partner/spouse/kids were total jerks or PITAs. Then we just didn't like the partner/spouse/kids/etc.
so, take home messages from my experience in med school:
1. no one cares what your sexual orientation is unless you try and make it their business.
2. They care if you're a good person
3. They care if you will be a good team player and help your classmates as you will expect them to help you.
4. If you try and alienate folks you can definitely succeed. But really, we're all too busy to care about your personal life just as you'll be too busy to care about ours.
5. If you make it a big deal, it can definitely become a big deal. If you treat it like others treat their boyfriend/girlfriend/partner/husband/wife/etc., no one will think twice. Really.
Now before you flame me for being a bigot or prejudiced or anything else, I fully understand there are folks who have had difficult experiences. I do. Try being told you're too old. Or being disabled. Not much you can do about those, and difficult to hide. I guess my point is avoid the places that are flat out nasty (but don't rely on just one source and don't rely on whether there is an "advocacy group" or not - get the skinny by going there, talking to a bunch of students... there aren't any "advocacy groups" for the disabled or older students or for parents at any school I know of either and yet those students seem to do just fine) and find a place you can be happy. Of course, if being happy means you have to have a bunch of clubs, marches, parties, exclusive gatherings, etc. for any one particular cause, I can't help you. We were all too darn busy studying to do any of that unless it was the "pass bacT study club" or "dirty mnemonics you will definitely remember club".
And for the record, I know students with same-sex partners (I'm unclear as to the politically correct term here, so please pardon me as I really try not to offend anyone) who are perfectly happy at Touro-Ca and NYCOM for exactly the reasons I listed above. They don't hide it, but they also don't make it a big deal.
A story:
we had a girl in my class who was very aggressive with her sexual orientation for the first couple of weeks. Her anger at everything really was uncomfortable, because frankly the rest of us didn't care what her lifestyle was. Once she stopped being angry all the time she was a really great person and that's all we all cared about. There were apparently other folks in class who were bisexual, swingers, homosexual, etc. No one cared. We were all too busy studying and trying to help each other through med school. Gathering with family/friends? They brought their partners. No big deal. Moms and dads brought their kids. No big deal. Unless the partner/spouse/kids were total jerks or PITAs. Then we just didn't like the partner/spouse/kids/etc.
so, take home messages from my experience in med school:
1. no one cares what your sexual orientation is unless you try and make it their business.
2. They care if you're a good person
3. They care if you will be a good team player and help your classmates as you will expect them to help you.
4. If you try and alienate folks you can definitely succeed. But really, we're all too busy to care about your personal life just as you'll be too busy to care about ours.
5. If you make it a big deal, it can definitely become a big deal. If you treat it like others treat their boyfriend/girlfriend/partner/husband/wife/etc., no one will think twice. Really.
Now before you flame me for being a bigot or prejudiced or anything else, I fully understand there are folks who have had difficult experiences. I do. Try being told you're too old. Or being disabled. Not much you can do about those, and difficult to hide. I guess my point is avoid the places that are flat out nasty (but don't rely on just one source and don't rely on whether there is an "advocacy group" or not - get the skinny by going there, talking to a bunch of students... there aren't any "advocacy groups" for the disabled or older students or for parents at any school I know of either and yet those students seem to do just fine) and find a place you can be happy. Of course, if being happy means you have to have a bunch of clubs, marches, parties, exclusive gatherings, etc. for any one particular cause, I can't help you. We were all too darn busy studying to do any of that unless it was the "pass bacT study club" or "dirty mnemonics you will definitely remember club".
And for the record, I know students with same-sex partners (I'm unclear as to the politically correct term here, so please pardon me as I really try not to offend anyone) who are perfectly happy at Touro-Ca and NYCOM for exactly the reasons I listed above. They don't hide it, but they also don't make it a big deal.
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Ok, so I'm likely a bit biased here... BUT the American Medical Student Association (AMSA) has long been the home to the LGBT community in medicine. I would suggest looking into schools with a strong AMSA presence already established and you should be in good shape. Further, if you're looking at particular schools with an AMSA chapter, you can likely find the chapter president's contact info and ask them, or a regional director for that particular school on www.amsa.org under the membership / for medical students tab. In my experience, anybody you try to contact from the organization should be very helpful. Hope this helps!
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I just really dont get how groups advocating ones sexual orientation have any place in medical school. In a way I feel as though throwing your sexual orientation in others faces only furthers the discrimination. Your gay? Cool! I am straight! Cool! Who cares?
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Hetronormic society, LGBT persons have to go through a lot of things. It's not about hey I like people of my own gender. It's more like I go through a lot of stuff which has made life relatively difficult. I want to be part of a group of people whom are similar and can be supportive.
Think of it like a group which works towards the betterment of a certain minority group.
I'd love for there to be a day when there isn't a need for LGBT groups. A day when sexuality doesn't really matter much. However until then, its necessary.
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I think the point was that in the setting of med school sexuality does not matter much.
I get that there larger social issues that are being worked out and by all means, be part of a community group and all that. But by and large no one at school is going to care what your sexuality is, unless you are a jerk about it and make a huge stink like Shyrem was pointing out. And her post was right on..
We had a few individuals in my class and no one cared, students or faculty as far as I knew.
That's called just having good friends. Who cares if the school sanctions an "official" on campus group?
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^^ thats what I mean serenade. I dont see why in MED SCHOOL it needs to have a place. Want to have a group off campus? By all means. I definitely know what it is like. I am Jewish...and while I dont necessarily buy into the religious aspect of it, it is nice hanging with people from similar upbringings.
I just feel that it is not really professional to have groups like this on campus. Its about professionalism.....not because I have a problem with homosexuality. I just dont really think that open discussion/flaunting of sex and sexual orientation has any place on campus. Do i talk about sex in the hospital? Of course..but I keep it amongst my close friends and coworkers...I dont openly broadcast my feelings about sexuality to the entire hospital.
I dont know. Hopefully I am not being insulting...just my opinion.
I just feel that it is not really professional to have groups like this on campus. Its about professionalism.....not because I have a problem with homosexuality. I just dont really think that open discussion/flaunting of sex and sexual orientation has any place on campus. Do i talk about sex in the hospital? Of course..but I keep it amongst my close friends and coworkers...I dont openly broadcast my feelings about sexuality to the entire hospital.
I dont know. Hopefully I am not being insulting...just my opinion.
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Meh I think the reason people have a problem with this. Is that there are groups for other minorities, why not LGBT persons?
It's all about professionalism of course, but does race and religion play a role in the hospital? Of course not. So the question is why do minority groups and religious groups get to have them. Like i've said again, this is a common misconception. LGBT groups have little to actually do about flaunting sexual orientation. The thing is LGBT groups are the same thing as church for Christians. It's a group where people can talk about issues which matter. Not about what is the best way to date in medical school. I mean we have groups like Christian OB/GYN's or things like that. They don't talk about how to murder abortion doctors, they talk about methods of how to actually inspire change and make things better to avoid abortion.
I mean I personally don't care for this matter much. Just playing devils advocate here.
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Yeah if other groups should get representation so should the LGBT community I suppose. If you want to do it as a social group type group and not some sort of outspoken loud gay pride type group than I guess why not. It just seems like this community is generally pretty outspoken. Do I have any issues with homosexuality...hell no..I could care less who you have sex with....just dont rub your sexual opinions in my face...just like i wont rub mine in yours. I dont really care too much for this topic either since I dont really like starting fights on SDN or in real life.
I dont really care too much for this topic either since I dont really like starting fights on SDN or in real life.
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I don't think people care what you're sexual orientation is as long as you don't feel the need to remind them about it every two seconds (I.e. Make it a point to let everyone know you're gay and you're proud as if challenging them to say anything about it).
In otherwords, making your sexual orientation an issue like your original post seems to suggest.
I have no idea why anyone would ever have a problem with someone who is gay. Its astounding to me why people can't just mind their own business when it comes to sexuality.
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Tuoro was like what? So just because a stranger types five sentences on some forum, you already know all about the issue then huh?
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Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant it just makes me want to set myself on fire.
But seriously, I don't think the purpose of LGBT groups is to rub people's faces in sex/sexuality, but rather to provide a support group. By this type of group being more vocal or just making their presence known probably acts to help more people (students and even patients in the community) who may feel alienated/closeted more than it harms the people who are irritated by it. So for a school to specifically ban that type of group seems to send a pretty aggressive anti-LGBT message. That's just my thought on the matter. If some people want to spend their time on that kind of group, who cares? ps. Isn't it pride week?
Touro NV has a new club, so they must be pretty supportive!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=126151607410141&v=wall&ref=share
Just goes to show even more that the 3 Touro branches are very different from each other.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=126151607410141&v=wall&ref=share
Just goes to show even more that the 3 Touro branches are very different from each other.
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Ugggh yea I don't know from where come from but down here in the Dirty Dirty most LGBT groups are to protect people from harassment or their parents abandoning them on the streets. O and yea most groups don't go flaunting there sexuality they probably pass out flyers about bobby a gay boy who just happened to get his face bashed in outside the stadium. The rest of the world is not like new england and cali. Luckily I am the type of guy you would never know is gay but because of this I have seen first hand the biased and blatant hate some (a very small portion normally old) still hold for homosexuals in this country. PS most dentist (I don't know about doctors) who are over 45 are conservative bigots but I am still best friends with them because its ether suck it up and get what you want or allow them to put you down. Though some people don't have it as easy as me some people born extremely effeminate and have to battle with that everyday by bigots
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Whenever you talk about your girlfriend, or wife, or some girl in your class that you think is hot, you are rubbing your sexual orientation in other peoples faces. If someone asks you 'what did you do this weekend?' and you reply 'I hung-out with my girlfriend' then you are rubbing your sexuality in someone's face. I'm not criticizing you, but we still live in a hetero-normative culture, and people don't realize that many gay people are afraid to say 'I hung-out with my boyfriend/girlfriend' because they're afraid that people will think that they're rubbing their sexual orientation in peoples faces
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I don't see that as throwing it in someone's face. That's just stating a fact. If someone asks me what I did last night and I say, "I hung out with my boyfriend," that's just the truth. It's not like I said, "I hung out with my boyfriend, because I'm straight. Did you get that? I am totally straight."
To be honest, I am bisexual, and I've gone out with girls before, but I've never made it a point to say, "Hey, I'm going out with a girl, because, I like chicks. Hear me? I like chicks." But in this day and age, a lot of LGBT people are afraid to say who they are with because of people who disagree so strongly that it could turn out ugly. There are still hate crimes out there, and people who will continue to scream and yell that gay people are evil. LGBT groups are for people to get support. It can be hard sometimes to deal, especially at an age where people might actually start to come out. They might come out in college, or even in medical school, and a group to support them on their way is a great thing.
But if someone asks you a question, and you give them an answer, whether gay or straight, or whatever, just simply saying you hung out with your partner or significant other is not really shoving it in someone's face. I think that's a bit of a crazy statement to make, IMO.
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The AAMC has been vocal about how the LGBT community is underserved and how schools should include LGBT students under their umbrella of diversity, but no official AA policy exists
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Nevermind unchecked the gay box, come on AAMC I'm looking to become a URM, damn you white middle class male ERR
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why? do you think gays should not be URM? I mean they are a minority or the ones that are out are at least?
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My doctor is openly gay and went to medical school at MSUCOM so I guess it wasn't too bad for him.
And for those who think LGBT people are flaunting their sexuality by having a group, straight people flaunt their sexuality every time they mention their husband or wife (or boyfriend/girlfriend). In many places, you can still be fired for being gay.
People assume I am straight constantly and constantly ask me about my wife and what she does. I don't have a wife, I have a husband who I am not allowed to mention for fear of discrimination, especially not at the hospital where I volunteer. The volunteer coordinator said if anyone knew of any part of my past (either that I'm gay or that I'm trans), I will no longer be allowed to volunteer. She knew of both given my background check and how I listed my emergency contact.
And for those who think LGBT people are flaunting their sexuality by having a group, straight people flaunt their sexuality every time they mention their husband or wife (or boyfriend/girlfriend). In many places, you can still be fired for being gay.
People assume I am straight constantly and constantly ask me about my wife and what she does. I don't have a wife, I have a husband who I am not allowed to mention for fear of discrimination, especially not at the hospital where I volunteer. The volunteer coordinator said if anyone knew of any part of my past (either that I'm gay or that I'm trans), I will no longer be allowed to volunteer. She knew of both given my background check and how I listed my emergency contact.
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why? do you think gays should not be URM? I mean they are a minority or the ones that are out are at least?
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As far as AMCAS is concerned, minority does not mean "the lesser group of any given category of people," it specifically addresses race.
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Should they be? Probably yes. Will telling a 70 year old Adcom that your gay make your life better? Probably not.
I mean you can hint at it by saying I intend to work in the gay community or something like that. But out right saying you're gay might make your life much more difficult, or easier.
Who knows.
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How can you be at this point in your education and still make this mistake in every one of your posts?
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{Removed troll post]
Go crawl into a hole and die.
Go crawl into a hole and die.
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*sigh* This was cute the first time you did it, now it's just excessive. Forgive me, I'll attempt to be more vigilant about my grammar.
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While it's ok to have open debates let's keep it civil. Comments that violate the TOS policy won't be tolerated.
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What about insulting comments made to one's personal inbox?
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...oh and I ask because I got a very unprofessional one from one of the people here.
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In undergrad I did a lot of volunteering with people with HIV/AIDS in my community. It's where most of my health care experience came from when I was applying, and I was seriously considering going back and serving that community, so it came up in interviews.
I was completely oblivious (...like I am most of the time) to the fact that one of my interviewers had concluded that because of this, I was probably gay. They started asking me all these questions about discrimination and hardship I'd faced and how I'd deal with someone who had a problem with me in a professional setting. All these questions seemed pretty standard (I'd had a really bad injury in college and had overcome that challenge, so I figured that's what they were talking about...). Once I caught on, there really wasn't anything to do about it, I mean, I wasn't offended, I just didn't want to represent myself as something I wasn't, so I figured the most subtle way would be to mention my boyfriend....they just looked confused at that point....fail.
To the OP: Good luck with your applications. I go to nova and I know that there are people of all orientations here, while I haven't asked anyone directly, I also haven't heard of any problems. I feel like the school is pretty accepting in general.
This made me so sad. I'm sorry you're in that position.
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the nerve of some people makes me want to
let's act like the adults we claim to be. if you don't "agree" with someone's life (like it's your business to care what they do
. hint: unless they're out killing/raping/otherwise harming others, it's not your business), shut your trap and keep it to yourself. there's no need to go out of your way to act like your parents didn't raise you right.@aero. although i can't imagine what you've had to go through, i commend you for being brave enough to do what you had to do to make YOU happy. because that's all that matters (of course, as long as your happiness isn't based on hurting people like i mentioned before
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I cant really agree with you there because thats just mentioning a fact. Life is heteronormative becuase that is how life evolved. Sucks for gays..but thats the way things are. People can mention that theyre gay all they want as in " I am hanging out with my boyfriend tonight,etc." When someone is openly sucking face with their boyfriend or what not that is rubbing sexuality in your face (just like it would be if I sucked face with my girlfriend in public which I dont). Also having parades where scantily clad men are parading around like *****s to support a cause is rubbing your sexuality in someones face...but to each their own. Who am I to tell you what you are doing is wrong? Its america..do as you wish...but it doesnt mean you arent going to annoy someone along the way. Anyways this thread seems to have degenerated into a troll thread...goodnight yall.
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And by the way...im not gay....but if I see a guy who is obviously a good lookin dude I wont hesitate to say that either
While I agree with you in principal, you have to remember that most people just can't understand what gay and lesbian folks sometime have to go through. Our culture is set up for the straight person, and while it is evolving to be more inclusive, when is the last time you were watching TV and saw a gay couple in a diamond commercial near christmas time? This kind of thing, over time, hurts.
I was in a job interview a few days ago, and while sitting down in the general manager's office a supervisor came in to get some paperwork. The general manager told the supervisor to go get a haircut because his hairstyle looked gay, and if he wanted to look that way he should move down to West Hollywood and flirt with some homos. I sat there, a little hurt inside, and showed none of it of course. It is this type of thing that goes on day in and day out, that is not picked up on by straight folks, that is partly responsible for the unique challenges for gay folks. Increased drug use, depression, and suicide among the LGBT populations are some of these. Some of my co-workers who do not know me well will sometimes speak of their wife or girlfriends casually in conversation, but then get weireded out when I talk to my boyfriend on the phone. I cannot make these conversations private, and neither can my co-workers, because we are stuck in the ambulance all day.
It is so hard sometimes to put yourself in another's shoes, I know it is something I struggle with. LGBT support groups can be life changing or even life saving for some people. You might have no idea just how therapeutic it can be to have a group of people who accept you down to your core and share the same struggles you do, and to meet with them every so often to discuss these things or just hang out it wonderful.
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Why do Gay's and Lesbians need a group? Who cares? I never understand how a group seeking acceptance starts a group for themsleves and excludes everyone else. Now I know a lot of you will say that hey Poliscidoc "anybody can be in our group". To this I will say- then join my group that is called white hetero males ages 18-21. You will then ramble on about some anti gay, raceist feeling I have. And then we will have come full circle. Nobody cares your gay, straight, or leaning. There are two many support groups in this country. Stand your ass up and face the world, this is called living life.
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The same reason why your part of a big group called the United States of America. United in a common interest, existent to overlook and better the lives of its members.
No one cares? I think a lot of people would love that to be a fact. But yah its not, prejudice is a common theme in human interpersonal and group relationships. Again its not about acceptance as much as its a place for you to be able to create a open forum to speak and make lives better for others.
You might strongly believe that people don't care about being gay. But realize that being gay does put you at higher risk of judgment and over 25% of kids are kicked out by their parents.
Of course people need to learn to stand up and fight for themselves alone and that if your not strong enough for you to fall. I 100% agree with that. But under the terms that it is a judgment fit for only adults. Sure the LGBT club for medical school is just a forum for common interests and what not. But LGBT centers and groups are safety for many kids who are abandoned. I've seen tons of kids who are strong but the thing is. Unlike me who grew strong knowing understanding the world for its truth that its got some good and a bunch of Grey. They'll grow up knowing that its a horrible place not worth living.
The question is? Why do you need a group? Why do you get a group? And others deserve to not? Your straight and live in a hetronormic society. You get the full of the country. Gays don't really get much support.
Ok this has turned into a major pissing contest. MOD's please lock this thread.
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Why do Gay's and Lesbians need a group? Who cares? I never understand how a group seeking acceptance starts a group for themsleves and excludes everyone else. Now I know a lot of you will say that hey Poliscidoc "anybody can be in our group". To this I will say- then join my group that is called white hetero males ages 18-21. You will then ramble on about some anti gay, raceist feeling I have. And then we will have come full circle. Nobody cares your gay, straight, or leaning. There are two many support groups in this country. Stand your ass up and face the world, this is called living life.
Straight people join/attend LGBT groups all the time; they're called allies
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Did you read my post?
Great for them attending meetings. Just don't get upset if the "straight as a arrow" group is formed.
I just feel that these groups serve little to no purpose. And as I said before I think there are too many support groups in this country.
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Yah.. their called nations.
Honestly, support groups and groups in general are the foundation of democracy and basic civilization.
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You would feel that way, because you're not gay or coming out. But ask someone who just came out or has been gay for years how they feel about the groups and they'll say that it's great and that they were helped. It's not just about "real life". I'm pretty sure they realize that it's real life they're living but it's not so simple to live it when **** like Prop 9 gets overturned because people aren't ready to see two women or two men who actually love each other get married. That's why it's good to have those groups. And when people finally accept that being gay/lesbian/bi/whatever is not a decision you make, and that they are just as normal as everyone else, then maybe those groups will not be needed.
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