Licensing delay

[FriendlyYeti121]

I'm an incoming PGY1. I have a question regarding how/when to approach my program regarding a possible resident licensing delay.

About 15 years ago I received a non-criminal ordinance violation/forfeiture, which the state requires to be reported for licensing. My file will need to undergo legal review. This can take up to an additional 8-12 weeks, which would mean starting late if it takes that long. I did not disclose this during ERAS/to the program because it is a non-criminal offense and is not something I have had to disclose in the past. It does not show up on a caregiver or criminal background check.

I'm guessing I need to give my program a heads up. However, I do not want to cause unnecessary worry if I'm being overly neurotic about a worst-case scenario timeline. I understand that the program can file a waiver if I am unable to start on July 1, and I do not want to handle this the wrong way. Two questions:

1) When is the appropriate time to notify them? Is this something I should mention to them now or wait a couple weeks (~1 month before start date)?

2) How should I go about telling them? Is it ok just to say that my license may be delayed or do I need to specify that its undergoing legal review/discuss the prior violation?

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Bobblehead]

Did you answer the ERAS questions accurately? From what I gather the form question is:
Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?

 

[Redpancreas]

I'm an incoming PGY1. I have a question regarding how/when to approach my program regarding a possible resident licensing delay.

About 15 years ago I received a non-criminal ordinance violation/forfeiture, which the state requires to be reported for licensing. My file will need to undergo legal review. This can take up to an additional 8-12 weeks, which would mean starting late if it takes that long. I did not disclose this during ERAS/to the program because it is a non-criminal offense and is not something I have had to disclose in the past. It does not show up on a caregiver or criminal background check.

I'm guessing I need to give my program a heads up. However, I do not want to cause unnecessary worry if I'm being overly neurotic about a worst-case scenario timeline. I understand that the program can file a waiver if I am unable to start on July 1, and I do not want to handle this the wrong way. Two questions:

1) When is the appropriate time to notify them? Is this something I should mention to them now or wait a couple weeks (~1 month before start date)?

2) How should I go about telling them? Is it ok just to say that my license may be delayed or do I need to specify that its undergoing legal review/discuss the prior violation?

Thanks!

Anything that is a licensing delay would have been something on PDs would have liked to have on ERAS so you are blindsiding them with this, but with this context I can see why you did not disclose it.

I think it would be wise to let the PD know, but what if this goes away prior to July 1st, then you’re basically telling the PD something they won’t need to know.

I honestly think a licensing lawyer is necessary in this case. Find a good one who’s not trying to sell you a bridge to nowhere and take their advice. DO IT NOW. It’s Friday, May 21st.

 

[Redpancreas]

Did you answer the ERAS questions accurately? From what I gather the form question is:
Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?

Meh it may have never shown up or been an issue and if it wasn’t for medical school I wouldn’t blame OP for thinking he’s safe and it’s not like you fill out ERAS knowing where you’ll match and fill out all the obscure licensing quirks certain states have.

I hope/deseo que medical school background checks are as strict as these licensing applications. I feel like that’s where the process needs to catch these things so they can be resolved when there’s time to get a lawyer. This is terrible timing to find out about this a month before starting when OP needs to show up July 1st.

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

Did you answer the ERAS questions accurately? From what I gather the form question is:
Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?

I answered no to this question because I did not believe this forfeiture would limit my ability to be licensed or limit my hospital privileges. It's not something that's required to be reported on most state licensing applications because it's not considered a crime.

I submitted my license application well in-advance and within the timeline the state website mentions where this should have gotten through on time, well before July 1. It just so happens there's a delay.

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

Anything that is a licensing delay would have been something on PDs would have liked to have on ERAS so you are blindsiding them with this, but with this context I can see why you did not disclose it.

I think it would be wise to let the PD know, but what if this goes away prior to July 1st, then you’re basically telling the PD something they won’t need to know.

I honestly think a licensing lawyer is necessary in this case. Find a good one who’s not trying to sell you a bridge to nowhere and take their advice. DO IT NOW. It’s Friday, May 21st.

When I contact a licensing lawyer, am I asking whether or not to disclose this to my program now?

 

[Redpancreas]

When I contact a licensing lawyer, am I asking whether or not to disclose this to my program now?

Ask them:

1.) what you’re obligated to disclose.
2.) how to get your training license approved and resolve this process.

do it ASAP

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

Ask them:

1.) what you’re obligated to disclose.
2.) how to get your training license approved and resolve this process.

do it ASAP

Thanks!

 

[Redpancreas]

Thanks!

I’m thinking what the lawyer is going to say is make the program director aware there may be a delay in licensure for further verification. The exact reason may not have to be revealed as it’s not really the PDs business unless it doesn’t get resolved. You haven’t even revealed it on here so I’m not sure how what exactly this was 15 years ago. Keep us updated.

 

[Bobblehead]

You are considering withholding information from one of the most important people in your upcoming life (i.e. your PD) based on legal technicalities that are now being reviewed by a group (i.e the state medical board) that is going to have significant sway over the rest of your professional life?

And your instincts appear to be to either not inform the PD or just be vague about the details?

Intern year schedules don't write themselves. If you don't give the program enough flexibility to account for your possible absence that isn't going to go over very well.

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

You are considering withholding information from one of the most important people in your upcoming life (i.e. your PD) based on legal technicalities that are now being reviewed by a group (i.e the state medical board) that is going to have significant sway over the rest of your professional life?

And your instincts appear to be to either not inform the PD or just be vague about the details?

Intern year schedules don't write themselves. If you don't give the program enough flexibility to account for your possible absence that isn't going to go over very well.

I apologize. It seems like what I said was misinterpreted. I asked for advice because I honestly do not know how to work through this situation. I’ve heard horror stories about how residents have been burned before by revealing too much or unnecessary info, and I don’t want to be in that situation. I don’t want to withhold information from my program. I don’t want to put the program in a tough place or my future co-residents. I don’t know what is appropriate to reveal to my PD in this situation. I don’t know that my PD will go to bat for me and help this move forward. Due to COVID, I haven’t even met my PD in person or anyone else at the program for that matter.

This situation spiraled into something that is largely out of my control. I could have not foreseen that it would take the state medical board 3x the normal processing time that they list on their website to review my file. The timing they gave me is also the general time they are giving everyone in the medical profession (physicians, nurses, RRT, etc.). I do not know if they are prioritizing residents. I submitted everything the week after Match Day and was just now notified about the increased processing times.

I have no problem disclosing, but I also don’t want to put myself in a hole. I don’t want to jeopardize my future by saying the wrong thing.

I’m just starting out, and I really don’t have a good sense of how much time programs need to adjust schedules. That’s why I asked these questions in the forum. To me, one month seems like enough time. I’m quickly learning that that is not nearly enough time. If it’s better to notify the PD and be honest about the entire situation, that’s reassuring. At the end of the day, I just want a job.

 

[Redpancreas]

I apologize. It seems like what I said was misinterpreted. I asked for advice because I honestly do not know how to work through this situation. I’ve heard horror stories about how residents have been burned before by revealing too much or unnecessary info, and I don’t want to be in that situation. I don’t want to withhold information from my program. I don’t want to put the program in a tough place or my future co-residents. I don’t know what is appropriate to reveal to my PD in this situation. I don’t know that my PD will go to bat for me and help this move forward. Due to COVID, I haven’t even met my PD in person or anyone else at the program for that matter.

This situation spiraled into something that is largely out of my control. I could have not foreseen that it would take the state medical board 3x the normal processing time that they list on their website to review my file. The timing they gave me is also the general time they are giving everyone in the medical profession (physicians, nurses, RRT, etc.). I do not know if they are prioritizing residents. I submitted everything the week after Match Day and was just now notified about the increased processing times.

I have no problem disclosing, but I also don’t want to put myself in a hole. I don’t want to jeopardize my future by saying the wrong thing.

I’m just starting out, and I really don’t have a good sense of how much time programs need to adjust schedules. That’s why I asked these questions in the forum. To me, one month seems like enough time. I’m quickly learning that that is not nearly enough time. If it’s better to notify the PD and be honest about the entire situation, that’s reassuring. At the end of the day, I just want a job.

OP there's always two sides to this. I suggest prompt discussion with a lawyer which I hope makes the licensing board cut the BS and tell you how long this will take, etc. If it seems like it's not going to be feasible by July 1st, you need to notify your PD and this can be done within a week of today I am thinking. I would get that done first and then you can contact your PD on 5/28 as opposed to 5/21. Please report updates to us.

 

[Redpancreas]

You are considering withholding information from one of the most important people in your upcoming life (i.e. your PD) based on legal technicalities that are now being reviewed by a group (i.e the state medical board) that is going to have significant sway over the rest of your professional life?

And your instincts appear to be to either not inform the PD or just be vague about the details?

Intern year schedules don't write themselves. If you don't give the program enough flexibility to account for your possible absence that isn't going to go over very well.

1. This occurred over 15 years ago when OP was in middle school.
2. OP did not have to explain this when they started their medical education.
3. It is likely this has been found due to idiosyncratic regulations of the state OP plans to practice in which OP had no way of anticipating.
4. If OP consults with a lawyer and takes some time with the licensing board, they likely will have a better idea what's going on in a week. A medical board can at the very least provide a Y/N as to how long this will really take after the lawyer helps out. PDs and Chiefs coordinate to make a schedule. At some programs they're already made, many programs are making them right now. A week's delay is not going to drastically alter things.

When it comes to something related to patient care, reporting issues immediately as they arise will always be the gold standard. When it comes to something like this, it's better to figure out what's going on first before you report something to your PD.

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

OP there's always two sides to this. I suggest prompt discussion with a lawyer which I hope makes the licensing board cut the BS and tell you how long this will take, etc. If it seems like it's not going to be feasible by July 1st, you need to notify your PD and this can be done within a week of today I am thinking. I would get that done first and then you can contact your PD on 5/28 as opposed to 5/21. Please report updates to us.

Thanks for further clarification of how a lawyer can help speed things up. I was able to talk to someone and started the process yesterday. They will provide me more info this weekend.

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

Update: A lawyer really sped things up. My application was approved and my license was issued. Thank you for your advice.

 

[Redpancreas]

Update: A lawyer really sped things up. My application was approved and my license was issued. Thank you for your advice.

Can you (you're not obligated) provide us with concrete details on how the lawyers sped this up? I think that would be a useful thing to hear and it'd help me provide better advice here.

 

[FriendlyYeti121]

Can you (you're not obligated) provide us with concrete details on how the lawyers sped this up? I think that would be a useful thing to hear and it'd help me provide better advice here.

I contacted a family friend in the medical profession for lawyer recommendations. They gave me the name of someone and I contacted them. I talked with the lawyer on the phone for ~10 minutes discussing the offense and how to proceed. They asked for my application info and said they would look into it. They told me not to contact my program yet. Less than 48 hours later my application was approved. I think they had an in or direct connection with the licensing board, but I can't say for certain.

In short, having a connection saved me.

 

[Redpancreas]

I contacted a family friend in the medical profession for lawyer recommendations. They gave me the name of someone and I contacted them. I talked with the lawyer on the phone for ~10 minutes discussing the offense and how to proceed. They asked for my application info and said they would look into it. They told me not to contact my program yet. Less than 48 hours later my application was approved. I think they had an in or direct connection with the licensing board, but I can't say for certain.

In short, having a connection saved me.

Could have been a coincidence. Let us know if it was when you talk to your lawyer.

 

[Redpancreas]

I want to provide closure to this situation. OP and I discussed privately. A few points that shouldn't identify him/her.

1. The lawyer was directly involved and had a causal relationship in expediting this licensing situation and it is now resolved. In fact, the licensing board profusely apologized to OP and said that they were working on changing their licensing application because of issues like this. Before the lawyer got involved, OP was basically hearing the same old thing from the licensing board.

2. OP recounted a situation where his friend disclosed their license would be delayed and the PD subsequently shared this with all the faculty (lolz) at the program and I guess that resident had difficulties moving forward.
--

I think the lesson here is that when it comes to these things, immediate disclosing to your PD shouldn't be the de-facto first step and legal counsel's probably not a bad idea. This drastically differs from a situation related to patient care when you run into a snag. Don't withhold such thing from your senior or supervising attending.

 

[FlowRate]

This situation was resolved for OP mostly because of a happy set of network connections. Some random assigned corporate medical licensing lawyer may not have the same sort of friendly (vs professional) contacts on a medical board. It'll also run you $100-$1000 to get a lawyer involved in this sort of thing (assuming it goes smoothly!) IMO OP was understandably hesitant about contacting PD but for most people that would have been the right thing to do.

I had a coresident whose med school withheld her MD graduation until she finished defending her PhD in the summer of MD graduation, which led to a multiple-month license delay. It was annoying and she had to make up those months at the end of residency and that's likely all that would have happened to OP.