Life at "Top" vs. Non-Top Medical Schools

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splendanator

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My MCAT score (36Q) is competitive for schools like Harvard, Duke, Mayo, Yale, etc. But not sure whether I really want to apply to these schools.

I'm mostly unclear of how life at top schools such as these might differ from other US schools. Are their curriculums more difficult? I've heard that medical students at "top" schools tend to be "extra-stressed." Is this true? Are the level and intensity of work much higher for "top" schools than for others?

I ask for two reasons. Firstly, I would like to be able to get good grades in medical school. Secondly, I would like to "have a life."
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splendanator said:
My MCAT score (36Q) is competitive for schools like Harvard, Duke, Mayo, Yale, etc. But not sure whether I really want to apply to these schools.

I'm mostly unclear of how life at top schools such as these might differ from other US schools. Are their curriculums more difficult? I've heard that medical students at "top" schools tend to be "extra-stressed." Is this true? Are the level and intensity of work much higher for "top" schools than for others?

I ask for two reasons. Firstly, I would like to be able to get good grades in medical school. Secondly, I would like to "have a life."
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A 36 is a good score, but the least of your problems is whether you "want" to go to a "top" school.

Dude, read these boards for awhile and you will see 3.9/38 people with no acceptances ANYWHERE.

Apply to a broad range of schools, see where you get interviews, go to the interviews, see which schools you like and, if you are lucky, a couple of them will accept you and you will get to be a doctor.
 
I'm by no means an expert, but I feel that getting good grades and having a life would be equally attainable/unattainable at most med schools. It probably depends more on the person.

As for whether you should apply to top tier schools, if you have good stats, I would say go for it. In the end,though--> it's all up to you, as I'm sure you know.
 
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Well, Yale has no grades in the first 2 years and requires a thesis. So you might scratch that from your list.... or maybe you'd like the "Yale System".
http://www.med.yale.edu/omca/students/yale_system.htm

Surf arond and you should be able to get more information about each school before making a decision about which schools may be a good fit for you.
 
A lot of the top programs have mandatory pass/fail class (Harvard, Yale and UPenn come to mind) so it's definitely not that stressful relatively speaking.

Honestly, if you have the option to go to a top program, by all means go. It will make your life easier in the long run. I've seen Harvard M.D. grads get into fairly competitive residencies with USMLE scores around 210 to 220, which is not a reality out of a mid-tier program.

The top programs are hard to get into. Once you are in, the cirriculum is comparable. Based on my friends that went to Yale/Penn/Harvard, they actually seemed to be less stressed and less worked up than my friends that went to Tufts/SUNY/G-town. The latter set were always stressed about the USMLE and how they would match.
 
Apply to a broad range of schools and see what happens. Worry about getting in somewhere before you worry about whether or not certain schools are beneath you.
 
RoboChicken said:
I'm by no means an expert, but I feel that getting good grades and having a life would be equally attainable/unattainable at most med schools. It probably depends more on the person.
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The OP's question is really impossible to answer, because practically no one has an experience at more than 1 school, so everything is hearsay.That being said, I very much agree with the above. The stressed out student is going to be stressed out whether they're at Princeton or UC Merced. The student who finds balance more easily will figure out a way to balance life and school the best they can at any school.
 
Also realize that while Ivy League schools you listed are defiantly prestigious, it doesn't mean they are super hardcore. I think many people think prestige = hardcore in terms of medical schools. This really isn't true, there are famous medical schools and their are rigorous ones. These are not mutually exclusive properties. Take for example the University of Madison-Wisconsin. They have the second largest research endowment in the country, and their med school is ranked in the top 5. The board scores of their students are also exceptionally high. However many people probably have never even heard of their med school.

Famous doesn't always equal best, and vice versa.
 
Lacipart said:
Also realize that while Ivy League schools you listed are defiantly prestigious, it doesn't mean they are super hardcore. I think many people think prestige = hardcore in terms of medical schools. This really isn't true, there are famous medical schools and their are rigorous ones. These are not mutually exclusive properties. Take for example the University of Madison-Wisconsin. They have the second largest research endowment in the country, and their med school is ranked in the top 5. The board scores of their students are also exceptionally high. However many people probably have never even heard of their med school.

Famous doesn't always equal best, and vice versa.
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top 5?
 
Thanks very much, everyone. I should have clarified that I don't consider any schools to be beneath me. It's just that my budget is tight for applications, and I wouldn't want to apply to somewhere that I would not end up choosing.

Your answers helped a lot. Especially Lacipart and mspeedwagon. I think that since these Ivy schools have big reputations, I assumed that their curriculum were insane. But as long as I have about 20 min per day to myself to chill, I can say that I "have a life."

Thanks again!
 
Yea I don't see them in the top 5. Maybe last year or something, god knows rankings shuffle every year. I never understood how like the Honda Civic could be "Car of the Year" and then 10 months later the same magazine says the Ford Fusion is the car of the year and doesn't mention the civic anywhere in the top 10... even though its just as good as it was last year. :confused:
 
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I'm sorry that you did not catch my second post, TheProwler. As I said, it's not a matter of schools being beneath me. I simply want to determine whether to spend money on Ivy-level applications. I would be more than happy to go to any medical school in the US.
 
Lacipart said:
Also realize that while Ivy League schools you listed are defiantly prestigious, it doesn't mean they are super hardcore. I think many people think prestige = hardcore in terms of medical schools. This really isn't true, there are famous medical schools and their are rigorous ones. These are not mutually exclusive properties. Take for example the University of Madison-Wisconsin. They have the second largest research endowment in the country, and their med school is ranked in the top 5. The board scores of their students are also exceptionally high. However many people probably have never even heard of their med school.

Famous doesn't always equal best, and vice versa.
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I think you're confused. We have a nice endowment but aren't ranked in the top 5 unless you're talking about primary care and that was a number of years ago.
 
Wanting to "have a life" is all on you. Everything on medical school on you. Granted, I haven't experienced it myself, but the overall impression I get is there is very little handholding. You are not taught to pass the USMLE and your grades are in your hands alone. No one will force you to study or even attend. And no one will tell you to get out of the library at 3 am.
 
morning said:
Wanting to "have a life" is all on you. Everything on medical school on you. Granted, I haven't experienced it myself, but the overall impression I get is there is very little handholding. You are not taught to pass the USMLE and your grades are in your hands alone. No one will force you to study or even attend. And no one will tell you to get out of the library at 3 am.
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Your schedule is yours to set except during 3rd year and 4th year sub-Is.

For the record, I've never ever been in the library at 3 AM during any point in time during med school.
 
Each school is different. Yale, with no exams and the emphasis on being "human," is not too bad. I can't speak with other schools though, but I have via the grapevine which ones tend to be more extreme than others.

In the end, it's all what you make of it. Some people who got into medical school spent tons of their free time studying; others partied regularly.
 
From what I've heard, most of med school is largely self-taught. So in terms of how much time you have on your hands--that wouldn't be much of a function of the school. In fact, I've heard that successful Caribbean students have to study the hardest because they REALLY need to rock the boards.

The better the brand name, the easier it will be to get a good residency even with a lower board score. In the end, though, APPLY BROADLY. Your MCATscore might rock, but that's only a tiny piece of your app, and getting into one specific school with a perfect overall application is still like shooting in the dark. Also keep in mind that some schools are hyper-focused on stats (e.g. Michigan) while other equally-good or better schools don't seem to care much about the MCAT (e.g. OHSU).

I second Lacipart's general comment about undergrad prestige not always equaling med school prestige. For example, I thought UPitt was a no-namer until I interviewed there.
 
On the issue of "having a life" I give you two words:

pass fail
 
Pass/fail makes medical school less stressful. Schools with shorter class periods could give you more time to study or other things. At HMS, classes start at 8:30am and runs till 12:00pm during the first year. Compare that to GWU where classes run from 8am to 5pm. As mentioned previously, medical school learning is mostly self-directed - you make time for what and how much you have to study and how to fit them in and also have a life.
 
Most people say that they would be happy anywhere and when they have to choose between (among) offers they are at a loss as to how to assess the choices.

Organ based curriculum or not
Block scheduling or not
Grades or Pass/Fail (Yale has exams but no grades in the first 2 yrs)
Problem based learning (PBL) or not
Other small group learning or not
Mandatory attendance or not
Taped lectures or not
Number of hours of lecture per day
Research: required/encouraged or not

Some other things:
Need a car or not
Campus housing or not
Mandatory meal plan or not
Cleanliness and safety of the facilities
Cost of living in that city
Social life on campus & in the area
Proportion of non-trads (important if you are one)

People have their opinions about each of these but in the end you are the one making the choice so you should look at your values and your learning style and decide what is a good fit for you.

A good question at interview is why the school believes that their way is a good way to teach (what is the advantage of your block system?)
 
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LizzyM said:
Most people say that they would be happy anywhere and when they have to choose between (among) offers they are at a loss as to how to assess the choices.

Organ based curriculum or not
Block scheduling or not
Grades or Pass/Fail (Yale has exams but no grades in the first 2 yrs)
Problem based learning (PBL) or not
Other small group learning or not
Mandatory attendance or not
Taped lectures or not
Number of hours of lecture per day
Research: required/encouraged or not

Some other things:
Need a car or not
Campus housing or not
Mandatory meal plan or not
Cleanliness and safety of the facilities
Cost of living in that city
Social life on campus & in the area
Proportion of non-trads (important if you are one)

People have their opinions about each of these but in the end you are the one making the choice so you should look at your values and your learning style and decide what is a good fit for you.

A good question at interview is why the school believes that their way is a good way to teach (what is the advantage of your block system?)
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Good check list.

I wanted pass/fail, optional research, and excellent clinical opportunities, all at a school where I would not need a car...headed to NYU next month. I geared my apps towards schools that met these criteria.
 
bassvp said:
So which have you heard tend to be more extreme?

Also, how do residencies deal with P/F schools? Put more emphasis on USMLE?
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We all still have grades for clinicals. That has always been the focus so it is more of medical schools adapting to residency's preferences than the other way around. Why make your students kill each other for two extra years if there is no reason? Having pre-clinical grades now is more about not being the worst than some benefit of being the best. I'm sure there is some, but the statistics for being top 10 in your class aren't very favorable unless you are Mayo Clinic.

Columbia College of Physician's and Surgeons: Defiantly prestigious.
 
Idk, I think a lot of succeeding on the step is doing well in year 2. I can say from experience that I took our graded 2nd year much more seriously than P/F year 1.
 
Apply to schools that interest you. No matter where you go, there is probably going to be someone smarter than you. Some of the people in my class with freakishly high MCAT scores barely finished first year while others in the mid-20s are near the top of the class.

Apply to a wide range of schools. Interview at some. Go to the one you like most out of the schools accepted to. Don't worry about others in the process.
 
i'm here over the summer and have been hanging with 2nd years. the first two years here at HMS are P/F, and the students love it. Everyone is extremely chill and enjoys life/boston. P/F really is the greatest thing as someone else mentioned.
 
Jolt21 said:
i'm here over the summer and have been hanging with 2nd years. the first two years here at HMS are P/F, and the students love it. Everyone is extremely chill and enjoys life/boston. P/F really is the greatest thing as someone else mentioned.
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I don't understand how people can work as hard in this system as those who are struggling to keep up with their peers? Is everyone in these systems really just that self-motivated?
 
All the people saying "Jeez, just wait until you get some acceptances to worry about this" are the same ones who will yell at OP when they create a duplicate thread in 4 months.

It's a community. This information is beneficial to someone if not the OP. If you have an answer, give it, if not, why be a jerk?
 
From intuition, I would think that students from ivy league schools will have more competitive mentality. Students from these schools certainly have prioritized their education and will prioritize it in medical school. Moreover because everyone will be approximately at same academic ability, they all will try harder. Certainly this will be true for all medical schools. But "having a life" will certainly will be harder at ivy league schools.

Moreover environment certainly isn't going to be friendlier. "I don't need help and I am smarter than you" mentality will certainly be at higher rate in ivy league schools like Harvard.

Personally, I would still go to ivy league schools and it really doesn't really matter because you will be only spending real first two years with other students.
 
ihave6packabs said:
From intuition, I would think that students from ivy league schools will have more competitive mentality. Students from these schools certainly have prioritized their education and will prioritize it in medical school. Moreover because everyone will be approximately at same academic ability, they all will try harder. Certainly this will be true for all medical schools. But "having a life" will certainly will be harder at ivy league schools.

Moreover environment certainly isn't going to be friendlier. "I don't need help and I am smarter than you" mentality will certainly be at higher rate in ivy league schools like Harvard.

Personally, I would still go to ivy league schools and it really doesn't really matter because you will be only spending real first two years with other students.
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Pretty much everything in your entire post was wrong, congratulations.
 
I go to a top 20 school and there is definitely time for all other things.
 
ihave6packabs said:
From intuition, I would think that students from ivy league schools will have more competitive mentality. Students from these schools certainly have prioritized their education and will prioritize it in medical school. Moreover because everyone will be approximately at same academic ability, they all will try harder. Certainly this will be true for all medical schools. But "having a life" will certainly will be harder at ivy league schools.

Moreover environment certainly isn't going to be friendlier. "I don't need help and I am smarter than you" mentality will certainly be at higher rate in ivy league schools like Harvard.

Personally, I would still go to ivy league schools and it really doesn't really matter because you will be only spending real first two years with other students.
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Believe it or not, these schools select not only academically strong applicants but friendly, fun-loving, team-oriented, humble, generous, hard-working people. When you wonder why someone with higher stats was passed over and someone with somewhat lower stats was admitted, it usually goes to temperment and attitude.
 
You might also want to consider how student at "top" programs match. Often, you don't have to be at the top of the class to get a great residency.

Try and pick a program where you will be happy and that will set you up to meet your goals. It is really hard to make a blanket statement about all top schools being one way or another. Even if the school has traditionally been one way so much of the atmosphere will be set by your classmates. All it takes is for ten kids to decide to be super competitive to make life stressful for those around them.
 
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ihave6packabs said:
From intuition, I would think that students from ivy league schools will have more competitive mentality. Students from these schools certainly have prioritized their education and will prioritize it in medical school. Moreover because everyone will be approximately at same academic ability, they all will try harder. Certainly this will be true for all medical schools. But "having a life" will certainly will be harder at ivy league schools.

Moreover environment certainly isn't going to be friendlier. "I don't need help and I am smarter than you" mentality will certainly be at higher rate in ivy league schools like Harvard.

Personally, I would still go to ivy league schools and it really doesn't really matter because you will be only spending real first two years with other students.
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Wow, scary. You know "intuition" and "common sense" are important qualities in a physician. Ever consider another line of work?
 
RadioCure said:
All the people saying "Jeez, just wait until you get some acceptances to worry about this" are the same ones who will yell at OP when they create a duplicate thread in 4 months.

It's a community. This information is beneficial to someone if not the OP. If you have an answer, give it, if not, why be a jerk?
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I don't think it is jerkish to tell the OP that he is focusing on the wrong issues at this time in the process.

His 36 MCAT is solid but nothing to get too excited about. The very LEAST of his/her/its problems is life in an Ivy League med school.

Choosing a good list for apps, nailing the secondaries, and getting IN should be the only focus in July!!!

Frankly, after reading his posts, I highly doubt we will see a thread in a few months:

"What should I do: Harvard or Yale or one of my non-Ivy acceptances?"

More likely:

"What should I do: Ten interviews and no acceptances in April??!!"
 
slowbutsteady said:
I don't think it is jerkish to tell the OP that he is focusing on the wrong issues at this time in the process.

His 36 MCAT is solid but nothing to get too excited about. The very LEAST of his/her/its problems is life in an Ivy League med school.

Choosing a good list for apps, nailing the secondaries, and getting IN should be the only focus in July!!!

Frankly, after reading his posts, I highly doubt we will see a thread in a few months:

"What should I do: Harvard or Yale or one of my non-Ivy acceptances?"

More likely:

"What should I do: Ten interviews and no acceptances in April??!!"
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Why must someone be consistently focused only on what is right in front of them? If people approached life this way, little of substance would be accomplished. The ability to actually anticipate problems and be ready for them rather than constantly scrambling to deal with everything in the present is a skill that many lack. I think it's a little excessive to chastise someone for wanting to plan ahead and daring to dream of a Harvard or Yale acceptance.
 
Narmerguy said:
Why must someone be consistently focused only on what is right in front of them? If people approached life this way, little of substance would be accomplished. The ability to actually anticipate problems and be ready for them rather than constantly scrambling to deal with everything in the present is a skill that many lack. I think it's a little excessive to chastise someone for wanting to plan ahead and daring to dream of a Harvard or Yale acceptance.
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The OP in this thread has 3 posts. Asked a pretty lame question, too. And the OP isn't dreaming about Harvard or Yale - he was asking a very lame question about stress and how hard it is to make good grades at those kinds of schools, evidently not understanding that many of the top schools are P/F and thus less stressful.

Sounds like the OP is putting the "cart before the horse" to me, too, hence some of the "chastising" you lament. The OP should be focused on apps, LORs, etc., not planning his white coat ceremony invitation list.
 
its funny how I got attacked by all the medical students. Forgot this was SDN as 90 % of you will be heading towards an ivy league or are in one. Should have known better.
 
To whoever was claiming that Ivy's are full of arrogant pricks or whatever, have you ever been to one or talked to people?

The pre-meds at my school are way more down to earth than those I've meet at state schools.

From people at the state school I hear:

"I'm going to be an ER doc so I never have to be on call"
"I'm going to be an ortho surgeon because people will always need someone to fix their broken bones"
"I'm planning on neurosurgery, my dad's friend works 3 days a week and makes 300k"

But back at school I'm more likely to hear things like:

Q: O cool so you want to be a doctor, what kind do you want to be?
A: "Whatever I can trick them into thinking I'm smart enough to do"

"I think I'm getting tired of the academic rat race already so I think primary care peds would be great"

"I think <blank> is pretty fascinating because I have been doing <blank> research for 3 years and meet a lot of really interesting <blank>'s at the <blank> conference, but I think I want to give everything a chance. "
 
I'm not sure why anyone would call a 36 "nothing to get excited about"

Only ~3-4% of all test takers score a 36 or higher...

If I were in your situation I would apply to top schools and attend if accepted.
 
ihave6packabs said:
its funny how I got attacked by all the medical students. Forgot this was SDN as 90 % of you will be heading towards an ivy league or are in one. Should have known better.
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basically amount of effort in classes is directly proportional to grading system. Most Ivy league schools are p/f, so not real competitive within the class. If anything, people have more spare time and with few exceptions, the environment is friendlier. Furthermore, you do see your classmates in 3rd and 4th year and in many cases, you learn more about them then.
 
surftheiop said:
To whoever was claiming that Ivy's are full of arrogant pricks or whatever, have you ever been to one or talked to people?

The pre-meds at my school are way more down to earth than those I've meet at state schools.

From people at the state school I hear:

"I'm going to be an ER doc so I never have to be on call"
"I'm going to be an ortho surgeon because people will always need someone to fix their broken bones"
"I'm planning on neurosurgery, my dad's friend works 3 days a week and makes 300k"

But back at school I'm more likely to hear things like:

Q: O cool so you want to be a doctor, what kind do you want to be?
A: "Whatever I can trick them into thinking I'm smart enough to do"

"I think I'm getting tired of the academic rat race already so I think primary care peds would be great"

"I think <blank> is pretty fascinating because I have been doing <blank> research for 3 years and meet a lot of really interesting <blank>'s at the <blank> conference, but I think I want to give everything a chance. "
Click to expand...

My favorite convo goes something like this:
Me: "Hey, you go to Tech/A&M/UT/etc., what's your major?"
Them: "I'm doing pre-med, lol"

A year later they are psychology/Fashion design/photography majors with no desire for medical/pharmacy/etc. school :smuggrin:
 
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