Life at USUHS.

[Elephantonious]

I've been particularly interested in USUHS. I browsed the internet for what I can expect out of USUHS as a student( such as what can i expect to be doing as a freshman, sophmore, junior etc. ) I could barely find any information when googling it. Then this forum poped up. Yeah, some information comes up and about around this forum but I kind of want solid information coming from students at USUHS or graduates. Thanks.

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[TheGoose]

I've been particularly interested in USUHS. I browsed the internet for what I can expect out of USUHS as a student( such as what can i expect to be doing as a freshman, sophmore, junior etc. ) I could barely find any information when googling it. Then this forum poped up. Yeah, some information comes up and about around this forum but I kind of want solid information coming from students at USUHS or graduates. Thanks.

as in curriculum? They have the entire curriculum listed on the usuhs website (including mention of operation kerkesner during freshman summer)....they list all the courses and actually have the schedule showing the exact times of the classes. i dont know how much more specific they could be.

in terms of third and fourth year - you go on rotation just like any other third and fourth year med student except you'll be rotating through military hospitals around the country

p.s. you also need to wear a uniform

entire MS-I academic schedule http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms1.html
entire MS-II academic schedule http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms2.html

example of week feb 16 - feb 20: http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/cal/ms2wk24.pdf

 

[Elephantonious]

as in curriculum? They have the entire curriculum listed on the usuhs website (including mention of operation kerkesner during freshman summer)....they list all the courses and actually have the schedule showing the exact times of the classes. i dont know how much more specific they could be.

in terms of third and fourth year - you go on rotation just like any other third and fourth year med student except you'll be rotating through military hospitals around the country

p.s. you also need to wear a uniform

entire MS-I academic schedule http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms1.html
entire MS-II academic schedule http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms2.html

example of week feb 16 - feb 20: http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/cal/ms2wk24.pdf

I really had no clue they had this curriculum on their website.
Has anyone told you how awesome you are Goose? Thanks for the wealth of info.

 

[backrow]

Has anyone told you how awesome you are Goose? Thanks for the wealth of info.

Sounds like a pre-emptive strike here

 

[IgD]

I think USUHS is a great school and you would get a cutting edge education. The concern is what will happen after you graduate and how will you pay back that 7 year blank check you gave Uncle Sam.

 

[sojourner75]

I think USUHS is a great school and you would get a cutting edge education. The concern is what will happen after you graduate and how will you pay back that 7 year blank check you gave Uncle Sam.

Well, I am done for, but such is life. How do we get back 7 years of life in anything? We do not get the years back; we simply live them and move on. Just look at all the former high rollers on Wall Street.

 

[TheGoose]

i think he placed more emphasis on the blank check aspect rather than purely the time. You could say that wall street high rollers chose to be there and could have left anytime before the bubble burst as opposed to someone getting orders to PCS or deploy somewhere they don't want to go.

no need for this thread to get derailed pro/con milmed now...but that's the sacrifice everyone volunteers for

 

[FlyDoc34]

Elephantonius, I would avoid USUHS at all costs unless you have no other options. You're better off in an environment where the faculty remain stable, and they actually care about your medical education instead of worrying about how to make you an 'officer'. The military mindset is 'officer first, physician second' and that doesn't sit well with many docs. I've seen colonel physicians in the military that write great performance reports and know all the military stuff, but are lousy, rusty clinicians.

Another option you should consider is HPSP, if you're really thinking about the military for a career. It's only a four year commitment as opposed to seven, and you get a much wider choice of medical schools and residencies. If you go to USUHS, you're stuck doing a military residency, and you'll run into the same problems. I did my FP Residency in the military, and the one faculty member that I really connected with and learned a lot from was deployed half my residency. Not to mention that most military residency programs pale in comparison to the workloads you'll have on the civilian side, and will need if you want to learn anything useful

Or, just sign up after you get out of medical school and do the FAP thing. The military is always desperate for docs, don't feel like you're 'missing the boat' by not doing HPSP or USUHS. I had many colleagues during my active duty physician years that bemoaned their choice to do USUHS.

 

[crazybrancato]

Elephantonius, I would avoid USUHS

Interesting how you've only posted a few times over the past few years, but ok . . . also interesting that you chose to knock USUHS as a school. By the vast majority of accounts, USUHS is a fine medical school. It's what happens in the milmed machine afterwards that upsets most people (and this is completely irrespective of USUHS, or wherever else they went to med school).

am curious what your career path was? which service, specialty? care to share any details???

 

[backrow]

Elephantonius, I would avoid USUHS at all costs unless you have no other options. You're better off in an environment where the faculty remain stable, and they actually care about your medical education instead of worrying about how to make you an 'officer'.

Not sure if you're talking about USUHS here, because almost all of the faculty at USUHS is "stable" because most of the faculty are civilians who have been there for years.

The military mindset is 'officer first, physician second' and that doesn't sit well with many docs. I've seen colonel physicians in the military that write great performance reports and know all the military stuff, but are lousy, rusty clinicians.

This would be the same no matter which route you took to military medicine. I wouldn't use this as a reason to do HPSP over USUHS.

Another option you should consider is HPSP, if you're really thinking about the military for a career. It's only a four year commitment as opposed to seven, and you get a much wider choice of medical schools and residencies.

Wider choice of medical schools, well yeah, USUHS is only one school. As for wider choice of residencies I wouldn't really count on it. Deferrments are definately not the norm anymore, so if you do HPSP count on doing a military residency. Are there deferrments, yes, but I wouldn't go into HPSP counting on getting one.

Not to mention that most military residency programs pale in comparison to the workloads you'll have on the civilian side, and will need if you want to learn anything useful

Do you consider yourself an poorly trained FP physician? If you consider yourself competent then that would mean the military residency trained you appropriately. Can you find better residencies "on the outside"? Sure, but you can also find ones that are worse.

Or, just sign up after you get out of medical school and do the FAP thing. The military is always desperate for docs, don't feel like you're 'missing the boat' by not doing HPSP or USUHS.

This I think is the best advice for those who are "iffy" on the military medicine thing. Although you don't get the money during medical school and residency you retain the flexibility to either continue as a civilian or go into the military as a fully trained physician.

 

[crazybrancato]

backrow, nice post. guy doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about, especially wrt the faculty situ at USUHS.

 

[J-Rad]

I think USUHS is a great school and you would get a cutting edge education. The concern is what will happen after you graduate and how will you pay back that 7 year blank check you gave Uncle Sam.

Please don't take this for argumentative, but I would argue that USUHS is a decent medical school but not necessarily "great". More likely squarely in the average. And I'm not sure there's anything cutting edge about it. My disclaimer is that I did not attend USUHS, but I worked with a good few med students and co-residents during my residency who were USUHS. There was a population of the exceptional med students and residents but there was a wide variability in the quality of "product" that I saw and some of the worst students I saw were from USUHS. Yes, there is a "selection bias" in my "sample" as USUHS was the largest contributor to the med student pool (thus increasing the likeliness of seeing a wider variability), but I didn't see anything that made is seem as if USUHS was exceptional.
As a school its greatest advantage is in getting paid as active duty while in med school (a particular advantage if you have a family), but certainly the military will have its pound of flesh in return. I also think that the prior service people are best served at USUHS and of the exceptional students I saw, the majority were prior service (this has always held true throughout my education though, even in undergrad art school). Like all things milmed, go into it with eyes wide open and don't believe the hype. The more realistic your expectations of the school and your post-school commitment are the better off you'll be.

 

[crazybrancato]

Please don't take this for argumentative, but I would argue that USUHS is a decent medical school but not necessarily "great". More likely squarely in the average. And I'm not sure there's anything cutting edge about it. My disclaimer is that I did not attend USUHS, but I worked with a good few med students and co-residents during my residency who were USUHS. There was a population of the exceptional med students and residents but there was a wide variability in the quality of "product" that I saw and some of the worst students I saw were from USUHS. Yes, there is a "selection bias" in my "sample" as USUHS was the largest contributor to the med student pool (thus increasing the likeliness of seeing a wider variability), but I didn't see anything that made is seem as if USUHS was exceptional.
As a school its greatest advantage is in getting paid as active duty while in med school (a particular advantage if you have a family), but certainly the military will have its pound of flesh in return. I also think that the prior service people are best served at USUHS and of the exceptional students I saw, the majority were prior service (this has always held true throughout my education though, even in undergrad art school). Like all things milmed, go into it with eyes wide open and don't believe the hype. The more realistic your expectations of the school and your post-school commitment are the better off you'll be.

Your assessment is fairly right on and agrees with those of others. My only point is that this 'FlyDoc' doesn't seem to know what he's talking about, as evidence by his complaint about faculty attrition, which is NOT the case, as pointed out by 'backrow'. I don't know who this FlyDoc character is, he's borderline trolling if you ask me.

And I should hope that at a military school, some of the faculty are military members and deploy, so they can come back and educate the rest of the student body on such endeavors.

 

[haujun]

I've been particularly interested in USUHS. I browsed the internet for what I can expect out of USUHS as a student( such as what can i expect to be doing as a freshman, sophmore, junior etc. ) I could barely find any information when googling it. Then this forum poped up. Yeah, some information comes up and about around this forum but I kind of want solid information coming from students at USUHS or graduates. Thanks.

Students at USUHS generally happy. VERY...

I experienced their happiness when I went for an interview. I guess getting paid to attend the medical school is an exceptional experience.

If you are a prior service USUHS may be a good option to consider. Not too many complaints from (prior service USUHS attendings) during pay back...Or they are little more patient to earn that retirement.

However (what I have seen..)if you do not have any military experience the seven years may be too long for you. I have seen a significant number of USUHS grads (residents/attendings) regret in attending USUHS...I do know if this from their lack of prior military experience before attending USUHS.

Does any one know number of USUHS grads (who are not prior service) staying beyond one's obligation??

 

[backrow]

Does any one know number of USUHS grads (who are not prior service) staying beyond one's obligation??

That's actually a great question that I would be interested to know as well. I would venture to guess that the number is actually still pretty high as the seven years really isn't seven years as has been discussed before. By the time a USUHS grad can get out they really have at least 10 years of service which is halfway to retirement.

 

[Homunculus]

staff positions and GME affiliated positions at USUHS (not NNMC or WRAMC, which at least for us worked closely w/ USUHS staff) are non-deployable as far as i know. a lot of those positions are highly coveted for that reason-- great BAH, fulfilling job, and you can homestead a bit there. some civilian staff have been there for decades-- long enough to know the surgeon generals when they were medstudents, lol.

i agree w/ j-rad. i'm a civilian HPSP/ROTCer who did my residency at WRAMC/NNMC and had a significant exposure to USUHS students and grads.

by far the best students and best "fit" for USUHS are the prior service folks. most are going to stay through retirement anyway once they get to that point so military training/residency isn't a big deal, and apparently the selection process for prior service is fairly comprehensive since most are hard workers and appreciate the opportunity.

however, some of the worst students, civilain or non, i've met have come through USUHS. and the problem is that no matter how hard you try, due to the military obligation, these people never get kicked out, never get administratively disciplined, and continue their social advancement even through residency. some of the laziest and ethically bankrupt people i've met (to the point one i told the rotation coordinator a student shouldn't even be in medicine-- and he agreed but said "there was nothing he could do") have come from that school-- and i'm not 100% sure why.

i think the greatest strength of the school-- it's "connectedness" with military medicine through faculty and prior service students, is also its greatest weakness. the "inbreeding" (for lack of a better term) of people who are lifers who return to teach there, along with the lack of exposure of its students to the real world hurts the students. people who have experienced "traditional" medschool training have a wider variety of experiences to draw from (inner city clinics, rural health clinics, ER's that see all walks of life, etc). and no one is there to tell them there is more to medicine than what the military provides. and to a degree, they don't *need* civilian exposure since they'll be spending 7 years in the military. but i definitely feel they miss out on a more rounded education and an appreciation for what else is out there.

like most schools, you get of it what you put into it. you can definitely do worse than USUHS, and you can probably do better. but if you know you want a military career you probably can't really get a better start.

--your friendly neighborhood i'll take one of those non-depoyable staff spots next please caveman

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

I have a couple questions:

1) Does your 7 year obligation begin when you graduate or after you complete residency?

2) Someone said the lectures are recorded (like they are at many schools), are you really allowed to watch them at home or is it mandatory that you attend class every day?

 

[SirGecko]

I have a couple questions:

1) Does your 7 year obligation begin when you graduate or after you complete residency?

It begins after you complete residency unless you do a GMO tour before completing residency. When you are being trained you aren't paying back time.

 

[EMTpremed181]

Yes, they record all of our lectures and you can watch them from home. You don’t have to be present for all lectures, but you do have to sign in on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday(however, you can leave as soon as you sign in). And Sirgecko is right, your payback time starts when you finish residency. Residency is kinda neutral time. Doesn’t count toward payback, and you don’t accrue any service commitment. The only bonus is that you make close to double that of civilian residents, and the time goes toward your retirement.

 

[rogershru2]

The biggest point for people considering USUHS is that you are required to do a residency in the military and will be over halfway towards retirement by the time you are free. If you know ahead of time you are in military medicine for the long haul it is for you, otherwise stay away. In my personal experience USUHS grads tend to be average to below average performance in the hospital, though there were some superstars from there as well.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Yes, they record all of our lectures and you can watch them from home. You don’t have to be present for all lectures, but you do have to sign in on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday(however, you can leave as soon as you sign in). And Sirgecko is right, your payback time starts when you finish residency. Residency is kinda neutral time. Doesn’t count toward payback, and you don’t accrue any service commitment. The only bonus is that you make close to double that of civilian residents, and the time goes toward your retirement.

You DO accrue commitment in residency (year for year for GME2+). However, this commitment is concurrent with your USUHS commitment and since you owe 7 to begin with, its not likely to matter. It did matter for a USUHS grad friend of mine who did a long GMO prior to a surgical residency.

It blows me away that people at USUHS don't even understand the rules for obligation.

In terms of the quality of USUHS students, I would say that, as a whole, they are a little above average. One thing to remember is that the HPSP students only rotate on the specialties they want to do (audition rotations) whereas we get the USUHS students for lots of rotations.

 

[pgg]

Elephantonius, I would [snip]

Ignore him.

USUHS is a fine school - not top tier, but solid. Excellent facilities, good instructors who have been there many, many years. Absolutely minimal military distractions. One significant downside is the amount of traveling required during the 3rd & 4th years.

The big risk with USUHS is that you're committing yourself to a military residency in an unknown field many years from now. Even if you think you know what specialty you'll want to do, you probably don't - most med students change their minds at least once. Anyone who promises you that all military residencies in all fields will be excellent programs 10 years from now when you get there is just aimlessly prognosticating. A very plausible Navy scenario for you would be to matriculate in 2010, graduate in 2014, finish internship in 2015, do a GMO tour through 2018, and do your residency 2018-202? ...

10 years is a long time. No one knows what base closures, consolidations, rightsizing, outsourcing, or Tricare hassles await us. These things will have some effect on GME, no one knows what, but odds are they won't enhance the educational experience.

One thing to remember is that the HPSP students only rotate on the specialties they want to do (audition rotations) whereas we get the USUHS students for lots of rotations.

This is true. The civilians are usually gunning for letters and face time with people they want to impress during their time at MTFs. 90% of the time, USUHS students are just doing another rotation ... I know I couldn't keep a motivated game face on for two solid years.

 

[TheGoose]

One significant downside is the amount of traveling required during the 3rd & 4th years.

ya know, i think this depends on who you are and where you're at in life. For me, a single younger guy, the prospect of jumping around to the pacific NW, hawaii, texas, DC, etc... is actually a really appealing aspect. I totally agree with you that it could be a pain if you've got a family and don't want to be base-hopping though. (and it will be a challenge to find someone to dog-sit for 2 years :-/ )

 

[xmsr3]

ya know, i think this depends on who you are and where you're at in life. For me, a single younger guy, the prospect of jumping around to the pacific NW, hawaii, texas, DC, etc... is actually a really appealing aspect. I totally agree with you that it could be a pain if you've got a family and don't want to be base-hopping though. (and it will be a challenge to find someone to dog-sit for 2 years :-/ )

Here Here, as a fellow single young guy I share that same sentiment and consider the military hospital rotations to be a big bonus USUHS has over civy schools.

For example, lets say you are considering specialty X and your dream posting is hospital y. You can try to rotate into the hospital in year 3, getting to know the staff and creating a report. Then in year 4 for an elective you could rotate into specialty X again at hospital y and form an even stronger impression on the staff.

Then when you are applying for your residency spot in specialty x at hospital y they will recognize you and this could be a big benefit to you in terms of making you stand out as an applicant, assuming your step scores are good.

Even if it dosn't work out like that, (you have bad luck in the rotation lottery) you could still get a chance to travel to the different major med centers for your service, which would help you decide where you want to do residency.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

The years spent in residency do count in getting you to retirement, correct? Like 5 years in residency --> 15 years as an attending, and i could retire with 24 years of service (if you add the 4 from Usuhs)?

Just trying to make sure they don't count only AFTER retirement, like time spent at USUHS does.

 

[teacherman84]

The years spent in residency do count in getting you to retirement, correct? Like 5 years in residency --> 15 years as an attending, and i could retire with 24 years of service (if you add the 4 from Usuhs)?
QUOTE]

That is correct...all time after med school counts toward retirement, unless you leave to do a civilian residency or fellowship...when USUHS grads hit 20 they get their 4 from med school

 

[SDSU EB]

Ok,
So I'm a pre-med student and I'm looking at a lot of options right now.

Currently I'm looking at MD/PhD programs. USU has captured my attention, as I was born and raised in a military family. But studying at another school is an alternative for me as well. Either way, it is likely that I will be a career military physician/researcher.

In that light, how similar is USU's student community to other military academic institutions such as Annapolis or West Point? Academically, I understand USU gets the whole gamut of students, but is curriculum structured around medical education (therefore, study, study, study) or does it have a greater emphasis on physical development, leadership skills, etc (go run for an hour even though you have a neuropharmacology test in the morning)?

How does a GMO position during the time you would normally be in residency affect your service repayment, how are you considered in the medical community if you are in a GMO post during your residency (are you considered a fully qualified and learned physician, or still a resident)?

What kind of competition is there for military residencies, especially compared to civilian residency competition?

Also if anyone knows: with the MD/PhD program, I know for the first few years you work on completing the research for the PhD as a civilian and then when you finish your research and transfer to the medical program you are then assigned appropriate military rank alongside other medical students. But how does the time as a civilian factor in to working at USU? Do you still receive the pay benefits, does it add service commitment? And if anyone has further information, I would enjoy hearing it.

Also, as you might guess by the desire to go for an MD/PhD, I get a little competitive/ambitious, and with that program I'll be in school until I'm past 30, quite a few of the people I know will be out in the ranks by the time I get out. I know that, at least with the Navy, once you graduate from USU's MD program you are step promoted to an O-3, does the additional work on a PhD factor into promotions/fit reps/etc?

 

[xmsr3]

I can answer a few of your questions for you.

My host was a West Point grad and according to him its much more laid back than at the military academies. Other than the uniform your job is to study and do well in your classes. Excercising is something you do on your own time, (though everyone does it because of PFT in spring and fall) but most people maintain their physical state such that if you need to miss a day of working out due to a big exam you're fine.

The competativness of military residencies depends on your service and specialty. For the army there are many residencies that are non competative, such as neuro, psych, neuro surgery, FP, IM, Rads, path, prev med, and others. Derm and Anesthesia are slighly competative. Gen surgery, EM and Ortho are competative and you might need to do GMO.

For Navy it is a lot more competative, only FP, IM and Psych are non competative.

For AF you have a better chance at getting a civilian deferment, but this is because AF has the smallest program and so everything except the main primary care specialties is competative.

Note, Army has the most research oppertunities, so if research is your passion you might want to consider that.

Finally, having the PHD won't have an effect on promotions. You will be a few years behind your USUHS colleagues but promotions still come every 5-6 years and are largely based on fitness reports and not screwing up. Remember that many on the promotion board are not even medical officers, just regular military officers, so your PHD might not mean much to them.

 

[IgD]

Currently I'm looking at MD/PhD programs. USU has captured my attention, as I was born and raised in a military family. But studying at another school is an alternative for me as well. Either way, it is likely that I will be a career military physician/researcher.

I'm not sure if there is a true career track for being a physician researcher in the Navy. I worked with a guy who had a MD/PhD and he had a hard time doing any research. He went on two deployments and it was difficult for him to get research done. The Navy looked at him as a clinician and wasn't too kind when it came to research. The other thing is research is political in the military. The parties who give approval are rumored to weigh how your study would make the military look. If a study has the potential to paint a dark picture of the military it would be harder to get approved.

 

[Gastrapathy]

OK xmsr3, I've tried to ignore you but please don't post things you know nothing about. Rads is non-competitive, Derm and anesthesia are slightly competitive ?!?!?? Put down the crack pipe.

The PhD from USU should give year for year TIG. So this is false too.
STOP GUESSING IF YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

[SDSU EB]

The PhD from USU should give year for year TIG.

Even though this is a dual degree, and even though I have to work on the PhD portion as a civilian (for the first 3 years at USU) before starting the traditional MD program, I receive TIG for the 3 years as a civilian before technically receiving a commission as an O-1 during the MD program?

And thanks IgD for the info. It's definitely something to consider, since going through USU pretty much indicates a military career, a PhD doesn't do much for me except add the number of years in school considering the lack of use I would probably get from it. Plus I kind of expected a more political environment with research, any organization in the Navy's position would have to make those choices.

Just for the sake of discussion: Does anyone know if the Navy lends out its staff corps to other governmental organizations to conduct joint research projects?

 

[xmsr3]

OK xmsr3, I've tried to ignore you but please don't post things you know nothing about. Rads is non-competitive, Derm and anesthesia are slightly competitive ?!?!?? Put down the crack pipe.

The PhD from USU should give year for year TIG. So this is false too.
STOP GUESSING IF YOU DON'T KNOW.

I meant competative in the Army and my definition of competative is compared to civilian match statistics.

I apologize for not making that clear.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Just for the sake of discussion: Does anyone know if the Navy lends out its staff corps to other governmental organizations to conduct joint research projects?

No they don't. they have few overseas research billets but one specialty leader told me "I don't really care about keeping those manned"

If you want a career in research the military is likely not for you. There are some who do it, but they 1)are the exception 2) work much harder to do it than their civilian counterparts and 3) must justify how their work helps the military be more efficient.

At your level of training the military is a poor option for a research/academic career.

 

[SDSU EB]

Thanks BigNavyPedsGuy,

I was just curious as to whether such opportunities existed within the military. And your information has helped me redefine my priorities slightly.

My priorities are already geared towards medicine and its clinical practice. And while I would enjoy the opportunity of research, if I had to choose between the career opportunities presented by the military and the ability to do research, I would choose the career opportunities.

If research is really not a feasible option in the military, then that just helps me to determine whether or not to dedicate an additional 3-4 years of my life to getting a PhD. If I'm not going to use it, there is little point to wasting my time and the military's money on getting one.

Thanks again

 

[DCM]

You can start an academic career in the Navy if you do a little planning and realize that you probably need to fulfill your military role at some point through a deployment or GMO, but that doesn't need to be a negative, especially if you are young. For example, if you go from high school, to college, to MD/PhD and then internship, doing a GMO tour may be a nice time to change gears, recharge and gain some life experience, and the majority of GMOs/UMOs/FSs really enjoy their time. Given that an MD/PhD plus residency/fellowship is going to take 14 or more years by any path, your life would be much more well-rounded during those years if you were in the military.

The seven years of payback go by quickly, especially if you have done 2 or 3 of them as a GMO and then spend the remainder at a military academic center with a life similar to civilian academics. Your PhD does count for your promotion: when you graduate, instead of being a fresh O3/Lietenant, you will be an O3 with 3 years(I think), meaning you will make O4 in a couple more years.

Finally, the academic ranking at USU carries over to the civilian world. So if you are an associate professor there(which you can apply for if you are working at any of the academic centers since they all have students from the school), then you can transition to associate professor at your next civilian center.

USU/HPSP is best for those interested in the military anyway and also want to go to med school, but there is something to be said for being debt free at a young age, even if the 30 yr calculations say you will be behind. This is especially true if you are interested in academics or primary care.

 

[IgD]

You can start an academic career in the Navy if you do a little planning and realize that you probably need to fulfill your military role at some point through a deployment or GMO...

You make it sound like you would go on a single deployment and be done. My friends are going on repeated back to back deployments sometimes a year long.

 

[DCM]

It's true that deployments are a major consideration when joining. Going on multiple deployments and deployments of a year are exceptions, just like not deploying at all is the exception. I don't know if any of the statistics are available on the net, but one 6-7 month deployment every 3 years is probably average, do you agree? There is a big variation between specialties and hospitals with FP, EM, FMF GMOs on the high-side, subspecialists, more senior people on the lower side. Who knows what will be happening with these wars in several years.

 

[IgD]

...one 6-7 month deployment every 3 years is probably average, do you agree?

No, I would say its more like 6 months every 2 years.

 

[jd1031]

Hi I'm a recent college grad applying to med school in June 2010, and I'm interested in mil med. I'm interested in Emergency medicine and Neurology (i understand my mind might change in med school).

Specifically, how's emergency medicine in the military? How competitive is it to get into an EM residency, and how does the training compare to the civilian sector? Do USUHS grads get priority in the military match proccess? Any input is much appreciated and thanks in advance!

*I'm familiar with military life, so the adjustment shouldnt be too bad. I'm a navy kid, I was a sea cadet in high school, have volunteered at a navy hospital, and I have friends in the academy and entering OCS shortly.

 

[pgg]

Specifically, how's emergency medicine in the military? How competitive is it to get into an EM residency, and how does the training compare to the civilian sector? Do USUHS grads get priority in the military match proccess? Any input is much appreciated and thanks in advance!

EM is generally regarded as much more competitive in the military than outside the military. Historically, in the Navy, completion of a GMO tour before residency has been essentially required. Of late they're trying to shift GMOs to board certified docs and part of that shift is taking at least one intern straight through, but there are still more applicants than spots.

The training is relatively low acuity compared to the civilian world, but residents do spend time on out rotations to get the experience they need. Most military ERs are glorified urgent care clinics, but I get the feeling this is more of a problem for those who are done with residency and concerned with skill rot.

USUHS grads don't get priority by virtue of being USUHS grads, but many more USUHS grads have prior miltary service than HPSP, and this does give them priority. They also have something of an advantage in that all of their MS3 & MS4 rotations are at military hospitals so it's far easier for them to get face time at programs they're interested in.

*I'm familiar with military life, so the adjustment shouldnt be too bad. I'm a navy kid, I was a sea cadet in high school, have volunteered at a navy hospital, and I have friends in the academy and entering OCS shortly.

Go to USUHS or take HPSP if you want to be in the military. Try not to let the prospect of large student loans intimidate you into joining the military.

 

[MSS07]

For those one or two people that go straight through to Navy EM residency how good does their application have to be. Are you talking like a USMLE 240+. Or is it luck, or both?

Also can't one do an IM residency, since its relatively easier to get, and just do an EM fellowship?

 

[Jolie South]

Doesn't USUHS also have mandatory attendance? I don't think I could deal with that. Class is a gigantic waste of time.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

For those one or two people that go straight through to Navy EM residency how good does their application have to be. Are you talking like a USMLE 240+. Or is it luck, or both?

Also can't one do an IM residency, since its relatively easier to get, and just do an EM fellowship?

question 1: the EM guys seem more interested in things beyond just board scores and grades. They look at personability, reasons for wanting to do EM, prior military experience, deployments, attitude, and to a lesser degree research. Of course academics are important, but a 240, 3.9, with a deadpan personality won't get you very far.

question 2: there aren't any EM fellowships for IM. FM has a few, but these are not accredited by ACEP and thus don't make you eligible to get board certified in EM.

 

[LikesScience]

Doesn't USUHS also have mandatory attendance?

No.
Lectures optional, labs mandatory.

 

[SirGecko]

Doesn't USUHS also have mandatory attendance? I don't think I could deal with that. Class is a gigantic waste of time.

The only things you have to go to are the human context panels, small group discussions, labs and ICM stuff. Lectures are all optional. (like biochem or introduction to structure and function)

 

[Jolie South]

The only things you have to go to are the human context panels, small group discussions, labs and ICM stuff. Lectures are all optional. (like biochem or introduction to structure and function)

That's good. I got a different impression from the folks I knew at COT that go there. One of them is in charge of making other people sign in for stuff.

 

[silverhorse84]

That's good. I got a different impression from the folks I knew at COT that go there. One of them is in charge of making other people sign in for stuff.

We do have to sign in 3 days a week for accountability. In the past it meant that if there were no mandatory things on MWF then you had to drive to the school to sign a paper. Last week they started an online sign-in so people don't have to do that. I go to class, so I find the paper easier, but I understand why they're doing it.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

We do have to sign in 3 days a week for accountability. In the past it meant that if there were no mandatory things on MWF then you had to drive to the school to sign a paper. Last week they started an online sign-in so people don't have to do that. I go to class, so I find the paper easier, but I understand why they're doing it.

So are most of the mandatory courses held on tuesday and thursday so you can just provide accountability over the internet and stay home on MWF?

 

[SirGecko]

So are most of the mandatory courses held on tuesday and thursday so you can just provide accountability over the internet and stay home on MWF?

Not exactly, no. It'll vary. The human context stuff (mandatory) is usually every other Tuesday. ICM (also mandatory) is most Wednesdays. Lab's are really what will vary and for ISFb&c (gross anatomy) we have them most days.

It wouldn't matter what day the mandatory stuff is on anyway. If you don't have anything you have to do on Tuesday or Thursday you just don't come in. They only do accountability on MWF and since you do it online now there isn't any reason to ever come in unless there is a mandatory thing you need to be at.

As a side note the whole first and second year schedules for this year are on the USUHS website if you want to see them. (under the students tab then SOM Academic Schedules) Here is the link for MS1:
http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms1.html

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Not exactly, no. It'll vary. The human context stuff (mandatory) is usually every other Tuesday. ICM (also mandatory) is most Wednesdays. Lab's are really what will vary and for ISFb&c (gross anatomy) we have them most days.

It wouldn't matter what day the mandatory stuff is on anyway. If you don't have anything you have to do on Tuesday or Thursday you just don't come in. They only do accountability on MWF and since you do it online now there isn't any reason to ever come in unless there is a mandatory thing you need to be at.

As a side note the whole first and second year schedules for this year are on the USUHS website if you want to see them. (under the students tab then SOM Academic Schedules) Here is the link for MS1:
http://cim.usuhs.mil/oea/ms1.html

Kick***, thanks.