Life-Changing Decision

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Anon456

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Alright, so here's the scoop: I'm 23, male, M1, and am engaged with a woman that I've been with for over 4 years and we've been very happy together. She sacrificed a lot for me, including dropping her "career" in order to follow me to medical school. She graduated college and still has plenty potential to do her own thing, but was wanting to do pharmacy so she missed out in taking the exams, getting her app built etc.

Now, the problem is not that I don't love her - I do! She is really a great person and we get along very well, most of the time. But, when we first met we had talked about kids and what we wanted with our future and she said that she DIDNT want kids, which I brushed off as her just taking the "I dont want to be a young mother and ruin our future" type of stance, so cool that was fine. I figured her mind would change down the road.

Recently since our engagement, I have again brought up the idea of kids in the future and she still is adamant about not having kids. It's really bothering me, because I want to carry on a family eventually! Another thing that has been getting to me is that she isn't comfortable with traveling, which is a major thing I love to do - I am the adventurous type and need to go do exciting things. Our 4+ years together has been confined to a mostly academic setting where I've been focused on getting into medical school so there hasn't been much traveling, having fun. That being said, we've lived together most of the 4 years and spend a great deal of time together.

So here comes an urgent issue.... I've met somebody in my medical school class that is coming on to me, more sexually than in an "I want to get to know you" type of way. She is cute and a really interesting person - and seeing pics on FB I can see she loves to travel and is adventurous. I would like to get to know her before I make any decisions that might ruin my current relationship with my fiance. I feel the urge to get to know this person because I feel like maybe we could have something that could lead to a happy relationship.. where maybe kids and a more exciting, adventurous relationship could happen. But my conscience is taking a huge toll on me because I really am a nice person, and I don't want to hurt my fiance. I feel so ****ty, and feel like I should stay with my fiance - but I also feel like that would be cheating myself because I would like a future with kids...

How do I proceed? Any advice?
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There are a few issues that will become terminal cancer in a marriage. The two biggest ones are kids (yes/no more so than how many) and religion (not necessarily a difference, but not having an acceptable plan for how to deal with it, the kids religion, conversion, etc.). Addiction might be the only bigger issue.
Work this out or find another life partner.
Harsh but true.
 
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Ok...whew...where do I start

First of all, she didn't give up her "career" - she gave up her career. The use of quotations makes it looks like such a thing wasn't a big deal to you.

Secondly...why the heck didn't you have a serious conversation about kids before getting engaged? I mean come on man, that's kind of important. Don't ever brush off someone's opinions on major issues just because they donn't jive with yours or you think they will "grow out of it" - that is marginalizing their wants and needs. You should have squared this away. While you wanting to have kids is absolutely fine and you are totally within your rights to use this as a dealbreaker, she is entitled to the same.

Thirdly...wow....so, you're keeping this poor girl on the back burner while you figure out if this other chick is a better fit for you? Thats kind of ****ty, dude. I mean, that's literally treating her like your safety net, not the woman you supposedly love. You don't love her - you are already looking for a way out. You feel guilty and are calling that love, and you're afraid to lose the love that she is giving you. **** or get off the pot, dude. Either go find someone who is a better fit for you and can give you the family you want (which is your right), or suck it up, compromise, and stay.

Fourth, does this chick know you are engaged? If so, and she's hitting on you, what makes you think she'd ever be faithful to you? She certainly doesn't seem to have respect for committed relationships. Homewrecker, hello.

Fifth, you do realize that all the crap that people put on Facebook are the cherry-picked bits of their life? Facebook is a terrible way to evaluate your own life compared to others. Terrible. Everyone's life looks ****ing amazing, because all they talk about and put up are the amazing bits.

Sixth, you're 23 and have been in a long relationship. Long-term relationships are not big adventurous things with tons of travel and fireworks and junk all the time, right? They sometimes get boring. They sometimes take compromise, They sometimes take work. How do you know she isn't interested in traveling if you guys have never done it because of school? Why don't you think she is adventurous? Have guys actually discussed adventurous things you would like to do? Maybe she thinkgs you're the non adventurous one because you guys haven't done much while you were in school, so she got used to it.

We all get crushes from time to time, even while in relationships. That is normal. But if you are seriously considering running off with a classmate who tickles your fancy, you need to sit down and have a SERIOUS talk with your fiancee.
 
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Yes, I can agree with most of what you have said. I understand that I come across as being an dingus. Also realize that I have matured in the past 4 years and that I want certain things in life that I didn't used to. This is our last chance to get things straightened out before marriage which, something I am very serious about. In a way I think I'm scared of this huge commitment and realizing how short life is, I don't want to commit to something I know might cause me serious distress later in life.

First of all, she didn't give up her "career" - she gave up her career. The use of quotations makes it looks like such a thing wasn't a big deal to you.
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I said "career" because she wasn't that serious about it to begin with, and the first instance that I mentioned going to medical school she took that as an easy out for her - I urged her, many times, to continue her pursuit with that career but she didn't, instead taking easy classes to satisfy her requirements to graduate. But, I can see how my saying that downplays HER needs, I agree. Her needs are very important, obviously. But this is something that bugs me - she has no goals/pursuits for a career, and doesn't want kids.... I guess not my problem though.

Secondly...why the heck didn't you have a serious conversation about kids before getting engaged? I mean come on man, that's kind of important. Don't ever brush off someone's opinions on major issues just because they donn't jive with yours or you think they will "grow out of it" - that is marginalizing their wants and needs. You should have squared this away. While you wanting to have kids is absolutely fine and you are totally within your rights to use this as a dealbreaker, she is entitled to the same.
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We did, but again, we met when we were 18/19! Lets be real, neither of us knew what the heck we were doing with our lives. I was just deciding about going pre-med, while she was sort-of pursuing a pre-pharmacy career. She says she doesn't want kids because of what birth would do to her body, and that she would no longer get the attention I give to her while we don't have kids. She also doesn't want to deal with them at school or their ignorance during teenage years. I respect her points, but it doesn't at all groove with what I was hoping for my future. Honestly, I didn't even realize until recently that I wanted kids... i am still relatively young but maturing nonetheless, and I now know I would like kids someday.
 
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Yeah, dude, you need to sit down with her and have an honest and serious discussion about things. And you need to tell her flat out "if you don't want kids, then I might not be able to marry you." You at least owe it to her to be able to hear it from you "like a man," as people say. The last thing you should do is pursue this other girl before you give your finacee a chance to know the issues and how strongly you feel about them.
 
Ok, there we go - a little more context.

I really think you guys should think heavily about calling it off, or at least postponing everything. While I think her whole "kids will ruin my body" thing is a little exaggerrated, I can sympathize a lot with her wondering if it will ruin her future by constantly having to deal with them. She probably feels like she kind of lost her chance to do something with her life, and she's afraid that having kids will just tie her down even more and she'll never be free to pursue anything. It may not be that she has no goals, she might just feel overshadowed by you at this point. Or, she may just be lazy, or a bit of both - I don't know her so I can't judge.

You desire for a family is again, totally legitimate. And if she doesn't want kids, there is really no way you guys are gonna work out. You simply can't tell if she is going to change her mind about it - is it worth waiting to find out? Is it worth wasting both your life and hers because of it?

People go through a lot of changes from 18-23 or so. Jeebus, if I had married the guy I was dating when I was 18, I wouldn't be where I am today and would probably be miserable.

Again, the answer is sitting down with her and having a very serious talk, not asking on the internet. You need to communicate with HER that this is a dealbreaker for you (which technically it would be for her too).
 
Yeah, dude, you need to sit down with her and have an honest and serious discussion about things. And you need to tell her flat out "if you don't want kids, then I might not be able to marry you." You at least owe it to her to be able to hear it from you "like a man," as people say. The last thing you should do is pursue this other girl before you give your finacee a chance to know the issues and how strongly you feel about them.
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I like this advice and I agree. While we have already had this discussion recently and it turned into a semi-heated exchange, I didn't give her an ultimatum. We are freshly engaged and have been together so long... it's not easy to tell this to somebody I've been with so long
 
Anon456 said:
I like this advice and I agree. While we have already had this discussion recently and it turned into a semi-heated exchange, I didn't give her an ultimatum. We are freshly engaged and have been together so long... it's not easy to tell this to somebody I've been with so long
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It's not an ultimatum. I don't mean you say in a "I'm the man" tone "yeah, you do what I say or I'm out!!" I mean you just honestly tell her, "look, this is how strongly I feel about it and it's really tearing me up inside. I think it might really cause issues with our marriage in the future, so tell me how you feel about it knowing that." Use some tact, but communicate how important it is.
 
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Don't let it become heated. Set ground rules for the discussion. Give each other equal opportunity to talk. If someone starts getting upset, take a break, calm down, and get back to it.
 
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WhtsThFrequency said:
Don't let it become heated. Set ground rules for the discussion. Give each other equal opportunity to talk. If someone starts getting upset, take a break, calm down, and get back to it.
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Either that, or FIVE ACROSS THE EYES!!
 
By the way, that's probably the most awesome line ever created. I'll use that one when I'm ninety.
 
Haha yes, non-heated exchange and definitely no five across the eyes. Got it.
 
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WTF is spot-on as hell.

I started dating my (now husband) when I was 17 and he was 18; I'm almost 26 now. Something he says often to people that ask him for relationship advice is that it isn't the hard times that bring the relationship closer - it's the boring times. The times when you don't need someone to take the call telling you your best friend died, or help your mom get flowers to your grandmother's funeral, or go to Thanksgiving dinner with your crazy family. It's the "doldrums" of life that make or break a relationship - when things aren't exciting and new and adventuresome.

If you truly feel that you're that incompatible (and yeah, kids versus no kids is a big deal breaker for most relationships), break it off now and not after you've tried to figure out if you can make something happen with this other girl. That's a ridiculously disrespectful and cruel thing to do, and you should be ashamed of yourself for that one. Better to end it now than after you're married.
 
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Dude, you screwed up when you didn't break up with her when you found out she didn't want kids. Now she has followed you. Do not even think about marrying her if she doesn't want kids and you do. In all honesty, you should talk to her and end the engagement if she holds firm that she doesn't want kids. You both need to start looking for other people who have similar life goals. The newness of this other girl and how adventurous she is is BS but the kids thing is not.
 
I think you need to disentangle the issues that are going on here. The way I see them, they are as follows:

1.) The girl coming on to you should be taken out of the equation immediately. You are in a committed relationship, you're engaged, and making any sort of move with this new girl is dishonesty and betrayal. It doesn't recommend either this girl (who would break up an engagement) or you (who would be probably much more OK with starting a love affair once married). First deal with your engagement before moving on to other women.

2.) Your concern regarding children is totally legitimate, but I blame you equally. You knew what she wanted years ago and weren't listening, thinking you could run roughshod over her wishes. Speaking personally, I can't stand her perspective, which reeks of selfishness and small-mindedness ("Oh noes, teh babies will ruin my BODY!") but that's her decision to make. You can't force someone to have children, especially not the woman (I guess a woman could more easily fool the man, and once she's pregnant he can't do anything about it). You need to talk to your fiancee and tell her how important children are to you and that before you go into marriage you want to make sure the two of you are on the same page. I would not immediately make the threat to break off the engagement if she doesn't want children. If she persists in not wanting children (totally her right), then break off the engagement. The reason I say you shouldn't link the two in front of her is because she could lie and acquiesce to have children in order to keep alive the engagement, but then renege once married.

3.) The concern regarding travel is reasonable, but not insurmountable. You can travel alone while she stays at home. Or she may open up to travel, she may just not have had enough experience to get interested.

4.) Your values are misplaced. Relationships that are exciting and adventurous are neither necessarily long lasting, nor conducive to the sort of joy most of us seek in a relationship, which is grounded on mutual respect, honesty, tenderness, etc. And it's this sort of relationship between parents that is good for raising children.
 
I NOPEd at this thread as soon as I read about the other med school student girl. If you're behaving this way and fantasizing about another person this "easily," you're not ready for this level of relationship. Do your fiance a favor and cut it off with her or come clean.
 
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Anathema said:
I NOPEd at this thread as soon as I read about the other med school student girl. If you're behaving this way and fantasizing about another person this "easily," you're not ready for this level of relationship. Do your fiance a favor and cut it off with her or come clean.
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I sort of take issue at that. I have found that everyone who is married likes to say "I never think about or look at anyone else other than my spouse." (Actually, I should just make that "women who are married" and "husband," since guys readily admit that they think about or look at women all the time.) And before anyone gets insulted, no, I can't read your mind and, yes, it's quite possible you guys literally NEVER think about anyone else other than your husbands/boyfriends and have never been attracted to another man and will never be attracted to another man. My main issue is that it's literally every married woman I've ever met saying that and at some point you're like "OK, clearly this is B.S."
 
ruralsurg4now said:
I sort of take issue at that. I have found that everyone who is married likes to say "I never think about or look at anyone else other than my spouse." (Actually, I should just make that "women who are married" and "husband," since guys readily admit that they think about or look at women all the time.) And before anyone gets insulted, no, I can't read your mind and, yes, it's quite possible you guys literally NEVER think about anyone else other than your husbands/boyfriends and have never been attracted to another man and will never be attracted to another man. My main issue is that it's literally every married woman I've ever met saying that and at some point you're like "OK, clearly this is B.S."
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I don't think that's the issue here.

Obviously everyone, male and female, looks at and thinks about other people from time to time. It's human nature.

But when in turns into actually considering leaving your spouse because of said crush, it's a problem.
 
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I think OP reeks of immaturity.
1. This girl you are flirting with is worthless, you are not going to be able to have a long term healthy relationship with some chick who thought it was okay to break up an engagement, so get that thought out of your head.

2. Your fiancee seems to have sacrificed a lot for you, and guess what, a lot of times relationships and marriage are abouts sacrifice. Are you willing to sacrifice not ever having kids? If the answer is no, then maybe you should break it off

3. Why did you propose if you had these kinds of doubts? Are you just getting cold feet or what?
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
I don't think that's the issue here.

Obviously everyone, male and female, looks at and thinks about other people from time to time. It's human nature.

But when in turns into actually considering leaving your spouse because of said crush, it's a problem.
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I've frequented various forums over the years and I have more than once seen someone post "I'm married and I'm attracted to someone else ..." and all the responses are people (usually women) who say "I'm married and I've never been attracted to another person. My entire life is devoted to my husband." To me, it's basically like a form of bragging about how awesome your relationship is.

The other thing, to me, is that, just as with the above poster, people often refuse to give people advice in those situations. What is the point of saying "I read your post and said NOPE"? What's that mean? You mean that you can't even give this guy ANY advice because he's attracted to someone outside of his marriage? That's ridiculous. Look, I'm not saying "let's break up a marriage" but what if the best advice was for him to break off his engagement right now? Because it might be, in this case. To just say "strengthen your marriage the end" or something similar is useless. I think it's perfectly fair to tell him, for example, that if he can't get over this issue that he should honestly and openly discuss it with his fiancee ...and then possibly break it off. That doesn't make him "Fiancee of the Year," but neither does it make him "The Worst Person Who Ever Lived, Including Hitler."
 
ruralsurg4now said:
I've frequented various forums over the years and I have more than once seen someone post "I'm married and I'm attracted to someone else ..." and all the responses are people (usually women) who say "I'm married and I've never been attracted to another person. My entire life is devoted to my husband." To me, it's basically like a form of bragging about how awesome your relationship is.

The other thing, to me, is that, just as with the above poster, people often refuse to give people advice in those situations. What is the point of saying "I read your post and said NOPE"? What's that mean? You mean that you can't even give this guy ANY advice because he's attracted to someone outside of his marriage? That's ridiculous. Look, I'm not saying "let's break up a marriage" but what if the best advice was for him to break off his engagement right now? Because it might be, in this case. To just say "strengthen your marriage the end" or something similar is useless. I think it's perfectly fair to tell him, for example, that if he can't get over this issue that he should honestly and openly discuss it with his fiancee ...and then possibly break it off. That doesn't make him "Fiancee of the Year," but neither does it make him "The Worst Person Who Ever Lived, Including Hitler."
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Those women are full of BS.

What I think the "noping" was about, was not the fact he was attracted to another person, it was that he was considering seriously leaving his fiancé for this person who he's known all of a few months, for what seems like superficial reasons (the adventure part, nit the kids part) That's different. It also means that yes, they need to absolutely not get married at this point if he is seriously considering this. I agree breaking it off 1oo percent with no discussion is hasty.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
What I think the "noping" was about, was not the fact he was attracted to another person, it was that he was considering seriously leaving his fiancé for this person who he's known all of a few months, for what seems like superficial reasons (the adventure part, nit the kids part) That's different. It also means that yes, they need to absolutely not get married at this point if he is seriously considering this. I agree breaking it off 1oo percent with no discussion is hasty.
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I understand that, but, look. Let's consider a few possibilities, OK? First, let's say "OK, this guy is scum, look at how he's willing to discard this relationship over nothing." OK ...then shouldn't he NOT be in that relationship? It does nobody, including the fiancee, any good to just tell him to not throw away his relationship because it's already been proven to be tenuous from the start. Sometimes, just identifying that is a positive thing, to be honest. That brings me to the second point. We ALL know -- even if it's just from celebrity marriages -- that some people get married and they shouldn't. So, again, what's worse? This guy "buckles down" and gets married to this woman and then immediately regrets it? Or he identifies before the marriage that he doesn't want to be married to her, which hurts her in the short term, but is REALLY good for her long term?

That's my point. You or the other poster or everyone may say "we disapprove of your wandering eye and you trampling on your poor, amazing fiancee." OK, but the reality is that this is going on. So maybe some advice would help. Not advice to "help him cheat on her," but advice that lets him figure out what's best for their relationship. And again, if that results in him leaving her and going after this other girl ...sorry, but that may actually be the better thing for all parties involved, even if it's sounds Jerry Springer-ish.
 
In response to my previous post, I NOPEd and gave advice by saying he's not ready for this level of commitment AKA break it off with his fiance. Sure some people can work things out, but the mindset he presented in his original post by saying this girl may be a better alternative does indeed reek of someone who is too immature to enter a relationship (a marriage though, seriously?)

I'm all for raising pitchforks against these types of people. I'm not supporting people who say they never get attracted to someone else. I definitely don't support people who lead their partner on while thinking of/engaging in fantastical thoughts.
 
1) Your feelings towards your current relationship are better described as a drug addiction. Why do you think it's so hard to quit certain drugs? Relationships are VERY similar.

2) Does this girl hitting on you know about your current relationship? If yes, guaranteed she'll cheat on you. If no, there's still a very good chance she will if she's the "adventerous" type (what do you think will happen when she's gotten bored of you 10 years later?).

3) You screwed up by not talking about kids earlier... big time.

4) Talk about kids now and have a very serious convo about it. Find the underlying issues if there are any. If truly incompatible, then you need to end it now before it gets 10x worse. More time invested = worse the consequences are.

Unfortunately, dating in western society means you're up against poor odds. Relationship and marriage outcomes are quite poor and even worse when you add in secret/hidden issues that don't get discovered ever.
 
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Anon456 said:
Alright, so here's the scoop: I'm 23, male, M1, and am engaged with a woman that I've been with for over 4 years and we've been very happy together. She sacrificed a lot for me, including dropping her "career" in order to follow me to medical school. She graduated college and still has plenty potential to do her own thing, but was wanting to do pharmacy so she missed out in taking the exams, getting her app built etc.

Now, the problem is not that I don't love her - I do! She is really a great person and we get along very well, most of the time. But, when we first met we had talked about kids and what we wanted with our future and she said that she DIDNT want kids, which I brushed off as her just taking the "I dont want to be a young mother and ruin our future" type of stance, so cool that was fine. I figured her mind would change down the road.

Recently since our engagement, I have again brought up the idea of kids in the future and she still is adamant about not having kids. It's really bothering me, because I want to carry on a family eventually! Another thing that has been getting to me is that she isn't comfortable with traveling, which is a major thing I love to do - I am the adventurous type and need to go do exciting things. Our 4+ years together has been confined to a mostly academic setting where I've been focused on getting into medical school so there hasn't been much traveling, having fun. That being said, we've lived together most of the 4 years and spend a great deal of time together.

So here comes an urgent issue.... I've met somebody in my medical school class that is coming on to me, more sexually than in an "I want to get to know you" type of way. She is cute and a really interesting person - and seeing pics on FB I can see she loves to travel and is adventurous. I would like to get to know her before I make any decisions that might ruin my current relationship with my fiance. I feel the urge to get to know this person because I feel like maybe we could have something that could lead to a happy relationship.. where maybe kids and a more exciting, adventurous relationship could happen. But my conscience is taking a huge toll on me because I really am a nice person, and I don't want to hurt my fiance. I feel so ****ty, and feel like I should stay with my fiance - but I also feel like that would be cheating myself because I would like a future with kids...

How do I proceed? Any advice?
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If someone says they don't want kids... they don't want kids.

You can't expect people to change for you. It doesn't work out, as you're finding out.

Sorry, but I don't see this ending with you two married
 
LOL. SUPER BUMP!

But seriously...why in the *%&^ would a man want to marry a woman who didn't want kids? You don't need to know the psychology of it...just avoid it!
 
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j4pac said:
LOL. SUPER BUMP!

But seriously...why in the *%&^ would a man want to marry a woman who didn't want kids? You don't need to know the psychology of it...just avoid it!
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I don't follow. There's plenty of men and women who do not want kids. Why is that a problem?
 
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Evisju7 said:
I don't follow. There's plenty of men and women who do not want kids. Why is that a problem?
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I just would have never considered a female who didn't want children. Partly because I wanted children...but also because I would want to know why they wouldn't want children (uncomfortable with children, selfish, too busy, etc). Most of the reasons for not wanting children I find as red flags.
But to each their own.
 
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j4pac said:
I just would have never considered a female who didn't want children. Partly because I wanted children...but also because I would want to know why they wouldn't want children (uncomfortable with children, selfish, too busy, etc). Most of the reasons for not wanting children I find as red flags.
But to each their own.
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If you want kids, then your significant other should want them too. But there are people who don't want kids; they should match with someone who shares that value.


I personally want kids, but I don't think it's a noble thing to do. Actually, I think having children is pretty selfish, which seems counterintuitive I know. I can't tell you why I'm here in this world, and I know I'm dying at the end.. but yet, I want to bring more lives into this? How selfish!
 
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j4pac said:
I just would have never considered a female who didn't want children. Partly because I wanted children...but also because I would want to know why they wouldn't want children (uncomfortable with children, selfish, too busy, etc). Most of the reasons for not wanting children I find as red flags.
But to each their own.
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One more thing:
There are already so many people who need help in this world. If a man or woman decides to help those who are already here, instead of bringing more needy mouths to the world, wow.. incredible.
 
:) It is interesting to see different opinions on this topic.
 
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