Liking 3rd year

[TakingBakSunday]

Does anyone actually like 3rd year? or do people just say that to save face around non medical school personnel so that it doesn't seem like they hate their life choice. Is it different between big city hospitals and smaller hospitals?

i mean, how can you really like 3rd year? i understand not wanting to be in the classroom but 3rd year clinical experience is much different than 1st/2nd year experience.

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[DeadCactus]

I'm going to wager that it's the third year wishing he or she was back in first or second year that made the poor life choice...

 

[TakingBakSunday]

you'd make me a rich person as i'm done with med school and you missed the point of my post.

 

[WellWornLad]

3rd year is definitely harder than 1st or 2nd year. It also has many genuine moments of embarrassment, awkwardness, uselessness, desperation, anger, frustration, physical exhaustion, and many hours that could probably be better spent outside of the hospital.

Well, I was going to counterbalance that with something positive but no, it pretty much sucks.

 

[VoiceofReason]

3rd year is definitely harder than 1st or 2nd year. It also has many genuine moments of embarrassment, awkwardness, uselessness, desperation, anger, frustration, physical exhaustion, and many hours that could probably be better spent outside of the hospital.

Well, I was going to counterbalance that with something positive but no, it pretty much sucks.

it sucks and i've grown really tired of my classmates lying about how much they enjoy it

 

[lildave2586]

The frustrating part for me is that I've spent two years of my life learning all these things, and in third year I find out that I know basically nothing about taking care of patients.

 

[xanthomondo]

Does anyone actually like 3rd year? or do people just say that to save face around non medical school personnel so that it doesn't seem like they hate their life choice. Is it different between big city hospitals and smaller hospitals?

i mean, how can you really like 3rd year? i understand not wanting to be in the classroom but 3rd year clinical experience is much different than 1st/2nd year experience.

It depends what month you ask a 3rd year whether or not they like it and what rotation theyre in.

The first few months? Third year is GREAT! Time flies by when you're not stuck in a classroom all damn day and you actually get to talk to real live people! (my first two rotations were psych and peds, which werent horrible)

Next few months? Ok this is kind of getting old. People treat you like garbage, you get crap for just about anything possible, and you feel pretty much useless because people wont let you do anything. This was the time I had OB/GYN, so staying up all night just to watch a resident catch the baby of some lady screaming her head off at 3AM was not my idea of education. But this seems to be how most rotations go (just watching)

Finally by the end I absolutely hate third year, can't wait for 4th year/residency interviews so I can just move on with my life.

 

[ACSurgeon]

The frustrating part for me is that I've spent two years of my life learning all these things, and in third year I find out that I know basically nothing about taking care of patients.

That's what third year is for... to learn how to allocate your theoretical knowledge into practice. Also, that's what residency is for (in case you figured you'd graduate med school feeling like a competent doctor).

 

[ACSurgeon]

Does anyone actually like 3rd year? or do people just say that to save face around non medical school personnel so that it doesn't seem like they hate their life choice. Is it different between big city hospitals and smaller hospitals?

i mean, how can you really like 3rd year? i understand not wanting to be in the classroom but 3rd year clinical experience is much different than 1st/2nd year experience.

I actually really enjoyed 3rd year. It came after a long, brutal second year followed by step1. Were there stressful moments in 3rd year? Sure, I hated shelfs, but that's more 1st/2nd year like than clinical.

Third year has a lot of 1st times... 1st time you catch a baby. 1st time you suture a laceration on a drunk person in the ER. 1st time you scrub an operative case, start an IV, do CPR, the list goes on. Sure, towards the end of it, the student role gets old. But, since you're always doing new things, it stays fun.

I really disliked 4th year. Don't get me wrong, the free time was great, but that was a bad way to spend 45k. If I borrowed that money for a TRUE vaccation, I would have had a much better time. Also, as a 4th year, you're doing a lot of the same stuff you did as a 3rd year (more surgery, more medicine, with a couple of unique electives). Nonetheless, the student role had gotten really old for me. I hated interns acting like they were boss (come on, we're 1 year a part for crying out loud). I especially hated my notes/orders not counting for anything. I am ready to be done, and seem to spend all my time on rotations day dreaming of graduation.

For those who liked 1st/2nd year better than 3rd, you really may have made a wrong career choice. Sure the unpredictability sucks, but nothing sucks more than spending the majority of your time studying!

 

[xanthomondo]

I actually really enjoyed 3rd year. It came after a long, brutal second year followed by step1. Were there stressful moments in 3rd year? Sure, I hated shelfs, but that's more 1st/2nd year like than clinical.

Third year has a lot of 1st times... 1st time you catch a baby. 1st time you suture a laceration on a drunk person in the ER. 1st time you scrube an operative case, start an IV, do CPR, the list goes on. Sure, towards the end of it, the student role gets old. But, since you're always doing new things, it stays fun.

I really disliked 4th year. Don't get me wrong, the free time was great, but that was a bad way to spend 45k. If I borrowed that money for a TRUE vaccation, I would have had a much better time. Also, as a 4th year, you're doing a lot of the same stuff you did as a 3rd year (more surgery, more medicine, with a couple of unique electives). Nonetheless, the student role had gotten really old for me. I hated interns acting like they were boss (come on, we're 1 year a part for crying out loud). I especially hated my notes/orders not counting for anything. I am ready to be done, and seem to spend all my time on rotations day dreaming of graduation.

For those who liked 1st/2nd year better than 3rd, you really may have made a wrong career choice. Sure the unpredictability sucks, but nothing sucks more than spending the majority of your time studying!

I guess it also depends where you end up. Im almost done MS3 (only have medicine left) and I have done none of those (except scrub in)

 

[2012mdc]

3rd year has been exhausting, rewarding, frustrating, annoying, entertaining etc.

Surgery's hours were brutal but I experienced some things I probably will never ever see again and I learned a lot.

FM was relatively boring but I learned a decent amount about focused H&P's and quick differentials.

IM was very tedious at times but I learned a lot and really gained some good clinical skills.

Psych has been relaxing but I have also seen some pretty crazy stuff and it has been very entertaining at times.

The most annoying part of M3 is that you no longer have control over your schedule. The best part of it is finally integrating all the preclinical knowledge and applying it clinically. I enjoy things like correctly identifying a murmur, spotting Cushing's, finally understanding EKG's, etc.

I can't say 3rd year is better or worse than 2nd year but it also depends on how one lucks out with attendings. I think I have been fortunate and 3rd year easily could have been a lot worse

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

3rd year was AMAZING.

 

[PistolPete]

Some months of 3rd year have been amazing, others have been the worst of my entire medical school career. It really depends. It's been a roller coaster ride for me.

Overall, I think 3rd year is better than second year, although definitely more stressful. You are put in a lot of awkward situations, fumble through a lot of things (at least I did) you don't know, but you really start to learn the skills necessary to take care of patients, which you'll be doing for the rest of your life.

I'm always skeptical of the student that says he or she loved EVERY single 3rd year rotation.

 

[DrBowtie]

3rd year has highs and lows, but I sure won't miss some of the BS grading stuff.

 

[coldweatherblue]

call me crazy, I like third-year much much better than pre-clinical years, in spite of the time requirement. yes, I didn't go to class ms1 and ms2 and had tons of free time, but studying all day with no context of what you're learning gets really old. Third-year is just like having a really busy job, and you learn a lot. Yes, there are a million things that suck about it but it's a lot better than pre-clinical, if for only the reason that you're finally actually learning medicine.

a big thing that helped me was having low expectations for how much free time I'd have AND viewing ms3 as a job so no worries at all about grading. step 1 broke the part of my head that cares about scores/grading so I haven't been stressed about evals/exams all year. oh yeah and third-year studying actually becomes kind of fun (never thought i'd say this) because you can apply current literature to your patients. best way to learn.

 

[officedepot]

I started my rotations not too long ago and I am enjoying it for the most part. I think enjoying them is all about the attitude a student takes. Mine is one where I make no plans on clinical days - thus I don't ever have to leave at any particular time, assume I am dumber than everyone around me (I feel like this helps me learn more even if I do know answers to a lot of stuff), and be interested as much as possible in everything I am doing even if I don't want to go into that particular specialty.

I am convinced that any negative attitudes during rotations is due to the medical student's own beliefs and actions. Get a little grilled by the attending/resident for not knowing something... well who cares? you didn't know it and the doc thought you should. learn it and move on.

I think if a student stoppped worrying about grades so much that he/she would enjoy life more. Do a good job for the sake of doing a good job - not because you want a good grade. The people you work with can tell if you like being there or not. So just enjoy it while you can is what I say.
Good grades and evaluations will come if your surperiors know you tried as hard as you could and were interested in what they did for a living. Obviously you still have to study for shelf and what not.


I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up.


granted I haven't been on enough rotations to become jaded yet but we'll see how I am like 8 months from now haha. Hopefully my attitude is unchanged. I think it will be because that's just the kind of person I am.

 

[chiz2kul]

I started my rotations not too long ago and I am enjoying it for the most part. I think enjoying them is all about the attitude a student takes. Mine is one where I make no plans on clinical days - thus I don't ever have to leave at any particular time, assume I am dumber than everyone around me (I feel like this helps me learn more even if I do know answers to a lot of stuff), and be interested as much as possible in everything I am doing even if I don't want to go into that particular specialty.

I am convinced that any negative attitudes during rotations is due to the medical student's own beliefs and actions. Get a little grilled by the attending/resident for not knowing something... well who cares? you didn't know it and the doc thought you should. learn it and move on.

I think if a student stoppped worrying about grades so much that he/she would enjoy life more. Do a good job for the sake of doing a good job - not because you want a good grade. The people you work with can tell if you like being there or not. So just enjoy it while you can is what I say.
Good grades and evaluations will come if your surperiors know you tried as hard as you could and were interested in what they did for a living. Obviously you still have to study for shelf and what not.


I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up.


granted I haven't been on enough rotations to become jaded yet but we'll see how I am like 8 months from now haha. Hopefully my attitude is unchanged. I think it will be because that's just the kind of person I am.

like your outlook

 

[Hurricane95]

I loved most of third year, including just about every rotation except pediatrics.

Sure there are some times when damn, you just really want to go home or you're tired, bored, etc. It happens. But by and large, I liked 3rd year much more than 1-2. After sitting in a class room for 2 years between force fed tons of info and suffering through step 1, being in the hospital working and actually feeling more useful and more like a doctor was a very welcome change.

 

[UAAWolf]

it sucks and i've grown really tired of my classmates lying about how much they enjoy it

Hmmm...This was a major thing motivating me to push hard through MS1/2.

Now I'm all like..

 

[Deferoxamine]

I feel bad for those of you who are miserable. I absolutely loved 3rd year.

I started my rotations not too long ago and I am enjoying it for the most part. I think enjoying them is all about the attitude a student takes. Mine is one where I make no plans on clinical days - thus I don't ever have to leave at any particular time, assume I am dumber than everyone around me (I feel like this helps me learn more even if I do know answers to a lot of stuff), and be interested as much as possible in everything I am doing even if I don't want to go into that particular specialty.

I am convinced that any negative attitudes during rotations is due to the medical student's own beliefs and actions. Get a little grilled by the attending/resident for not knowing something... well who cares? you didn't know it and the doc thought you should. learn it and move on.

I think if a student stoppped worrying about grades so much that he/she would enjoy life more. Do a good job for the sake of doing a good job - not because you want a good grade. The people you work with can tell if you like being there or not. So just enjoy it while you can is what I say.
Good grades and evaluations will come if your surperiors know you tried as hard as you could and were interested in what they did for a living. Obviously you still have to study for shelf and what not.


I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up.


granted I haven't been on enough rotations to become jaded yet but we'll see how I am like 8 months from now haha. Hopefully my attitude is unchanged. I think it will be because that's just the kind of person I am.

I have nothing to add here. You pretty much nailed it, especially the boldface part.

 

[RySerr21]

im starting 3rd year at the end of May and right now the only thing keepin me goin is the awesome positive feedback i get from upperclassmen about their experiences. I havent heard one person say they hated 3rd year.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I like third year way better than the first two. L&D was awful, and while surgery was fun, I certainly could do without the hours it has to offer. Other than that, it's been awesome.

 

[pingouin]

I like third year way better than the first two. L&D was awful, and while surgery was fun, I certainly could do without the hours it has to offer. Other than that, it's been awesome.

Really? I loved L&D, and I have no interest in OB/Gyn.

I've loved 3rd year so far. Much better than being in the classroom. I've had great residents and attendings, and for the most part I've lucked out with the classmates I've had on my teams.

I'm feeling slightly edgy about the fact that I haven't gotten to do much by way of procedures (ie, starting an IV, paracentesis, LP), but for the most part it's been the bad luck of the draw that a) my patients haven't needed those procedures or b) my junior residents still had some left to do under supervision and that took priority. That said, my residents have certainly tried to include me when they can, and as the year is ending, they're really good about giving increasing autonomy.

 

[MossPoh]

I guess it also depends where you end up. Im almost done MS3 (only have medicine left) and I have done none of those (except scrub in)

I'm not even in third year and I've done a number of those things...

My school does things differently than most others, so I've heard nothing but good things for the most part. We are basically given a preceptor/mentor for each rotation who willfully signed up for it. We have a required summer clinical practicum and the internist I was with would simply say, 'Well, I've got a bunch of paperwork to fill out. Go upstairs and round on my patients for me. Tell me what you think when I get up there."

If he had to go do some other work then I'd just go into the ED and wander around. Did some suturing, debrided a few wounds, CPR on some people, got my H&P skills up. It was so much better than being in a classroom. It is so much easier to learn stuff when you actually can put a face to it.

I do think that the traditional 3rd year, 4th year, intern, resident, attending thing would suck a little more.

 

[TakingBakSunday]

"I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up."

This would be a valid argument except for the fact that
1) You would get fired immediately for some of the stuff that is pulled in the hospital. At least at a for profit company professionalism is valued and each employee is treated well.
2) Some people think being paid makes it acceptable for putting up with certain treatments.

I feel bad for anyone who likes 3rd year and thinks this is an acceptable way to spend a year of his or her life.

 

[Jolie South]

"I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up."

This would be a valid argument except for the fact that
1) You would get fired immediately for some of the stuff that is pulled in the hospital. At least at a for profit company professionalism is valued and each employee is treated well.
2) Some people think being paid makes it acceptable for putting up with certain treatments.

I feel bad for anyone who likes 3rd year and thinks this is an acceptable way to spend a year of his or her life.

That point is not always true. It certainly wasn't where I worked before.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I've loved 3rd year so far. Much better than being in the classroom. I've had great residents and attendings, and for the most part I've lucked out with the classmates I've had on my teams.

I had great residents and classmates on the rotation, but I really resented the fact that nobody came and got us when interesting things happened. We just sat in a tiny room for 12 hours a day and did NOTHING. I "worked" 120 hours and did a total of 6 deliveries, 4 of them sections. In other words, I had to find a way to pass about 110 hours. I'm also not the biggest fan of childbirth, so even when I did manage to see a delivery, I wasn't exactly wowed. The only thing miraculous about that process is that some people think it's a miracle. I'll leave the pervasive smell of feces and amniotic fluid to the OB's, thanks.

 

[ACSurgeon]

"I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up."

This would be a valid argument except for the fact that
1) You would get fired immediately for some of the stuff that is pulled in the hospital. At least at a for profit company professionalism is valued and each employee is treated well.
2) Some people think being paid makes it acceptable for putting up with certain treatments.

I feel bad for anyone who likes 3rd year and thinks this is an acceptable way to spend a year of his or her life.

I feel badder for anyone who dislikes 3rd year... You're too deep in debt to turn back, and if you're not enjoying 3rd year, you're probably in the wrong field. After 4 years of college and the first two years of med school AND step 1, 3rd year was actually FUN. Sure, general life sucks, and you're not given much respect, but you're finally getting true exposure to different fields of medicine, and starting to make a decision regarding what you want to do for the rest of your life.

I'm not saying the student role is enjoyable, and I was the first to admit that early in 4th year I was ready to be done. Hated being treated like a student. For anyone to say third year was not an acceptable way to sepnd ONE year of life (after 6 crappier years), is an overstatement. Or, you really had a ****ty experience!

 

[ACSurgeon]

I had great residents and classmates on the rotation, but I really resented the fact that nobody came and got us when interesting things happened. We just sat in a tiny room for 12 hours a day and did NOTHING. I "worked" 120 hours and did a total of 6 deliveries, 4 of them sections. In other words, I had to find a way to pass about 110 hours. I'm also not the biggest fan of childbirth, so even when I did manage to see a delivery, I wasn't exactly wowed. The only thing miraculous about that process is that some people think it's a miracle. I'll leave the pervasive smell of feces and amniotic fluid to the OB's, thanks.

Unless you were locked up in that tiny room, it was your fault for not being proactive (or your residents/attendings for not pushing you). When a woman goes into the final stage of labor, too much is happening to have someone call/page the student. If you're hanging out at the nurses station, you're a lot more likely to know when something is happening, and just go be part of it. Same applies for when a small procedure needs to be done. They have a small window of time where nothing is happening, and they want to complete the procedure before 2 women start actively pushing and everyone is scrambling to cover both rooms and a procedure.

Alternatively, students can take turn actively looking out for things to happen and page others, or sitting in a quiet place to study. I had another student on L&D, and at night, one of us would sleep 4 hours while the other kept an eye on our patients. If his patient went into labor, I would page/call/wake him. When it was my turn to sleep, he did the same.

 

[2012mdc]

Unless you were locked up in that tiny room, it was your fault for not being proactive (or your residents/attendings for not pushing you). When a woman goes into the final stage of labor, too much is happening to have someone call/page the student. If you're hanging out at the nurses station, you're a lot more likely to know when something is happening, and just go be part of it. Same applies for when a small procedure needs to be done. They have a small window of time where nothing is happening, and they want to complete the procedure before 2 women start actively pushing and everyone is scrambling to cover both rooms and a procedure.

Alternatively, students can take turn actively looking out for things to happen and page others, or sitting in a quiet place to study. I had another student on L&D, and at night, one of us would sleep 4 hours while the other kept an eye on our patients. If his patient went into labor, I would page/call/wake him. When it was my turn to sleep, he did the same.

I understand your point but it would only take a few seconds to text one of the students to let them know. On trauma call they let us study/sleep and always found the few seconds to text us whenever a stat pack came in. No matter how hectic the situation was they wanted us to be there and made sure of it.

I haven't done OB yet but from what I hear from my classmates they do the same thing. You would have to literally hide somewhere not to participate. The only exception is July and August when the new interns are there.

Maybe I'm spoiled by how my school does it but I wouldn't want to hang around the nurse station for hours when I could be sleeping

 

[ACSurgeon]

I understand your point but it would only take a few seconds to text one of the students to let them know. On trauma call they let us study/sleep and always found the few seconds to text us whenever a stat pack came in. No matter how hectic the situation was they wanted us to be there and made sure of it.

I haven't done OB yet but from what I hear from my classmates they do the same thing. You would have to literally hide somewhere not to participate. The only exception is July and August when the new interns are there.

Maybe I'm spoiled by how my school does it but I wouldn't want to hang around the nurse station for hours when I could be sleeping

I don't think anyone would want to either. However, if your options are to miss out on everything and spend your time at the hospital completely wasted, I'd bring a book and camp out where the action is/will be.

I'm a big advocate for using time effeciently. When I'm a resident, I'll try to include students whenever possible, yet try to prevent them from wasting dozens of hours per week following me or waiting for something to happen. Not all residents feel that way, and that puts the burden on the student to be proactive to get a real education.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

Maybe I'm spoiled by how my school does it but I wouldn't want to hang around the nurse station for hours when I could be sleeping

Agree that it sucks but I also agree with lazymed. I don't think medical students should feel like their team needs to inform them of every little detail. Especially if there are emergent/fast-paced events occur. If one wants to be in the know, one has to be proactive. Yeah, that might be sacrificing some sleep time or quiet study time but you can't have it all (at most places).

I think that when I'm a resident I will try to keep my medical students in the know but they will NOT be prioritized over patient care.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

"I think a huge issue with many medical students is that a lot of them have never had "real" jobs (like in a for profit company with a boss - not research). Thus they don't have much experience in working with others, being in charge of others, getting b*tched at, etc. That's just how it is. Time to grow up."

This would be a valid argument except for the fact that
1) You would get fired immediately for some of the stuff that is pulled in the hospital. At least at a for profit company professionalism is valued and each employee is treated well.
2) Some people think being paid makes it acceptable for putting up with certain treatments.

I feel bad for anyone who likes 3rd year and thinks this is an acceptable way to spend a year of his or her life.

Examples please. I have NEVER seen anyone on the wards pull crap that is worth being fired over. I've seen yelling and rude behaviors but you find that in any job.

 

[Jolie South]

Agree that it sucks but I also agree with lazymed. I don't think medical students should feel like their team needs to inform them of every little detail. Especially if there are emergent/fast-paced events occur. If one wants to be in the know, one has to be proactive. Yeah, that might be sacrificing some sleep time or quiet study time but you can't have it all (at most places).

I think that when I'm a resident I will try to keep my medical students in the know but they will NOT be prioritized over patient care.

I agree.

 

[unsung]

3rd year is definitely harder than 1st or 2nd year. It also has many genuine moments of embarrassment, awkwardness, uselessness, desperation, anger, frustration, physical exhaustion, and many hours that could probably be better spent outside of the hospital.

Well, I was going to counterbalance that with something positive but no, it pretty much sucks.

I think it's only harder for the average med student who went straight from HS --> college --> med school, without ever having experienced a "real job" in the "real world".

Having done shift work at a hospital... I am 99.99% positive 3rd year med students have no idea how much they have it made, when compared to "real jobs" in the "real world." Whining about q4 call on peds rotation? Think about the nurse doing rotating shift with overnight shifts (staying up entire night, certainly no call room to relax in) every 4 days... permanently.

And it's not just the physical exhaustion. There's plenty of scut work & needless humiliation (ahhh love the hierarchy in hospitals... if you think being a med student is tough, try being support staff!!) I found it interesting that even as a MSII going into the ER, the ER doc took me seriously & explained everything to me (treated like a "junior colleague"). Whereas the nurse standing over there with the 20 yrs of experience and is on good social terms with the ER doc... still didn't get that kind of attention from the doc. So yeah. Guys. It could be a LOT worse. Trust me.

Of course, I could eat my words come 3rd year. But... I'm going to guess that it's going to be exactly how I imagine it will be-- difficult & new, sure... but nowhere near the level of exhaustion endured in many "real jobs". And, there's no way it can be worse than my shift work days.

 

[xanthomondo]

[/B]

I feel badder for anyone who dislikes 3rd year... You're too deep in debt to turn back, and if you're not enjoying 3rd year, you're probably in the wrong field. ....!

I disagree. Third year consists of (for most schools) medicine, gen surg, peds, ob, psych, family and maybe neuro/EM depending where you go (my school does neither of the last 2). There are many more fields in medicine than those 6/7, so you could easily hate MS3 but still have made the right decision.

I think it's only harder for the average med student who went straight from HS --> college --> med school, without ever having experienced a "real job" in the "real world".

Having done shift work at a hospital... I am 99.99% positive 3rd year med students have no idea how much they have it made, when compared to "real jobs" in the "real world." Whining about q4 call on peds rotation? Think about the nurse doing rotating shift with overnight shifts (staying up entire night, certainly no call room to relax in) every 4 days... permanently.

And it's not just the physical exhaustion. There's plenty of scut work & needless humiliation (ahhh love the hierarchy in hospitals... if you think being a med student is tough, try being support staff!!) I found it interesting that even as a MSII going into the ER, the ER doc took me seriously & explained everything to me (treated like a "junior colleague"). Whereas the nurse standing over there with the 20 yrs of experience and is on good social terms with the ER doc... still didn't get that kind of attention from the doc. So yeah. Guys. It could be a LOT worse. Trust me.

Of course, I could eat my words come 3rd year. But... I'm going to guess that it's going to be exactly how I imagine it will be-- difficult & new, sure... but nowhere near the level of exhaustion endured in many "real jobs". And, there's no way it can be worse than my shift work days.

I worked before entering med school, and I still think MS3 sucks. We pay a ****-ton of money ($45k for many) to be thrown into a hospital where 1. people resent us and just accuse us of getting in the way, 2. we just have our time wasted (like milkman's experience) with no education experience at all and 3. where we really aren't taught that much.

You're going to compare that to a nurse who went to (maybe) 4 years of undergrad and graduated working 3 - 12 hour shifts per week for $60-70k per year starting? That doesn't even include the $50/hour overtime rate that they see if they come in extra. There's a reason why the ER doc isn't explaining the case to the nurse -> because there's no reason she needs to learn that! After 20 years in the ER im sure the nurse knows what she needs to know in order to do her job.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I disagree. Third year consists of (for most schools) medicine, gen surg, peds, ob, psych, family and maybe neuro/EM depending where you go (my school does neither of the last 2). There are many more fields in medicine than those 6/7, so you could easily hate MS3 but still have made the right decision.

.

Which is why I said PROBABLY. Most med students will go into one of the core specialties, and if you are among the majority of students, yet HATE 3rd year, then you ARE probably in the wrong field. Now, if you came in knowing you want to do nothing but radiation oncology, sure you might not enjoy other fields, but you'd be the exception, not the rule. Also, regardless of chosen career, medicine and surgery will be crucial to be a well rounded doctor. Again, if you HATE these experiences, that doesn't say a lot of good things.

Just to be clear, I don't expect anyone to love or even like the student treatment (being treated in an inferior fashion, ignored, etc) but the experience as a whole should be enjoyable, if you are really interested in being a doctor. Third year is when you get to see a bunch of cool stuff the make a doctor, well, a doctor.

 

[ruiner]

I disagree. Third year consists of (for most schools) medicine, gen surg, peds, ob, psych, family and maybe neuro/EM depending where you go (my school does neither of the last 2). There are many more fields in medicine than those 6/7, so you could easily hate MS3 but still have made the right decision.



I worked before entering med school, and I still think MS3 sucks. We pay a ****-ton of money ($45k for many) to be thrown into a hospital where 1. people resent us and just accuse us of getting in the way, 2. we just have our time wasted (like milkman's experience) with no education experience at all and 3. where we really aren't taught that much.

You're going to compare that to a nurse who went to (maybe) 4 years of undergrad and graduated working 3 - 12 hour shifts per week for $60-70k per year starting? That doesn't even include the $50/hour overtime rate that they see if they come in extra. There's a reason why the ER doc isn't explaining the case to the nurse -> because there's no reason she needs to learn that! After 20 years in the ER im sure the nurse knows what she needs to know in order to do her job.

Where do you live that nurses are starting at 60-70k? I'm honestly just curious because here jobs are ~23 an hour (though most start nights and get a differential) which puts them a little under 50 I think. I was a tech for awhile so I will say that M3 does not look easy but they did not have to deal with much crap at the hospital I worked at.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

I worked before entering med school, and I still think MS3 sucks. We pay a ****-ton of money ($45k for many) to be thrown into a hospital where 1. people resent us and just accuse us of getting in the way, 2. we just have our time wasted (like milkman's experience) with no education experience at all and 3. where we really aren't taught that much.

I just wanted to comment that while your situation sucks, it does NOT happen everywhere. I have never experienced that nor have most of my classmates. To go back to my earlier comment, the ones who did experience what you did were the ones who were on the shyer side, easily forgotten and not very proactive. I don't know how you are/were as a third year but that could easily be a contributing factor. I made sure that I brought my A-game and enthusiasm everyday and I can easily say besides a week of palliative care, I loved and learned every day of third year.

 

[nlax30]

Everyone has valid points and a lot of it depends on where you are rotating and how they treat students. Something like a horrible OB rotation where you're sitting at the nurses station for hours just waiting for a resident to run by to a deliver can make you hate life, while a month with a ward team that treats you like part of the team and gives you some responsibility can really make it enjoyable.

I've had both extremes. On Peds I was just bored because I basically just shadowed the doc while in clinic. On most of my IM months though I was basically treated like an intern and given a fair bit of leeway in actually directing care.

Overall I enjoyed 3rd and 4th years much more than the first two. For one, I went into this to become a physician and treat patients, not sit in a library for hours on end reading and stressing over the next test.

I'm pretty easy going and have thick skin so I was never bothered by criticism on the wards. And being slightly older than the typical student with previous work experience probably helped in that regard.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Unless you were locked up in that tiny room, it was your fault for not being proactive (or your residents/attendings for not pushing you). When a woman goes into the final stage of labor, too much is happening to have someone call/page the student. If you're hanging out at the nurses station, you're a lot more likely to know when something is happening, and just go be part of it. Same applies for when a small procedure needs to be done. They have a small window of time where nothing is happening, and they want to complete the procedure before 2 women start actively pushing and everyone is scrambling to cover both rooms and a procedure.

Alternatively, students can take turn actively looking out for things to happen and page others, or sitting in a quiet place to study. I had another student on L&D, and at night, one of us would sleep 4 hours while the other kept an eye on our patients. If his patient went into labor, I would page/call/wake him. When it was my turn to sleep, he did the same.

Yeah, that's actually mostly nonsense, at least where UAMS is concerned. We were not welcome at the nurses' station and were regularly told by residents and nurses alike to just stay in the student room until we were gotten. There were several times when I was out walking around by the nurses' station and was not informed that my patient was delivering, so that strategy wouldn't be particularly helpful even if the nurses loved us. Interestingly, they use little walkie-talkie things to page doctors, but we weren't allowed to keep one in the student room. Add to that the fact that our student room is tucked away in a corner of the ward, away from the activity and all but 2 of the patient rooms, and you have a recipe for a really terrible rotation. I don't deny that my utter disdain for OB didn't help the situation, but we were basically systematically excluded from doing anything. Yes, there are plenty of time-sensitive things going on in the OB ward, but there's no reason that someone can't swing by when they're going to have a patient start pushing or something.

At least it was just a waste of time, though. It could've been like some people's OB experiences with super-malignant residents and faculty looming over them all the time. I'd much rather be bored out of my mind than made to feel like crap constantly. Those were just 2 weeks out of a whole year that has been generally awesome.

 

[badasshairday]

Overall 3rd year has been good. Don't get me wrong, there were some crappy parts. But I expected those things, so it didn't bother me that much.

OB/Gyn next month. I am so dreading it.

 

[xanthomondo]

Where do you live that nurses are starting at 60-70k? I'm honestly just curious because here jobs are ~23 an hour (though most start nights and get a differential) which puts them a little under 50 I think. I was a tech for awhile so I will say that M3 does not look easy but they did not have to deal with much crap at the hospital I worked at.

In Philly. I know a few nurses/murses who just graduated from BSN school and started off in the 30's per hour at a local hospital. Granted it's in the ICU which isn't cake, but they only have to work 36 hours a week and get credit for 40.

 

[MilkmanAl]

A friend of mine signed a 5-year contract for $80k awhile ago. I guess they need male nurses badly or something.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Yeah, that's actually mostly nonsense, at least where UAMS is concerned. We were not welcome at the nurses' station and were regularly told by residents and nurses alike to just stay in the student room until we were gotten. There were several times when I was out walking around by the nurses' station and was not informed that my patient was delivering, so that strategy wouldn't be particularly helpful even if the nurses loved us. Interestingly, they use little walkie-talkie things to page doctors, but we weren't allowed to keep one in the student room. Add to that the fact that our student room is tucked away in a corner of the ward, away from the activity and all but 2 of the patient rooms, and you have a recipe for a really terrible rotation. I don't deny that my utter disdain for OB didn't help the situation, but we were basically systematically excluded from doing anything.

Haha... sorry to hear that. That really sucks .

I'd much rather be bored out of my mind than made to feel like crap constantly.

I would probably do the same in your situation. I wouldn't complain about it though... I would just phase it out

Those were just 2 weeks out of a whole year that has been generally awesome.

And that's my point exactly. You can have a crappy day, week or even rotation in third year, but to say it was bad all around and that you prefer 2nd year over 3rd year just blows me away.

That might be me though. I have a hard time sitting for more than 10 minutes reading now (my last exam is this Friday). By the end of second year, I was ready to get the heck out of my chair, and onto the wards. Third year wasn't all fun, but it was much better than anything I experienced 2nd year.

 

[badasshairday]

And that's my point exactly. You can have a crappy day, week or even rotation in third year, but to say it was bad all around and that you prefer 2nd year over 3rd year just blows me away.
.

2nd year of med school was by far the worst. I do not, and will not, miss anything about 2nd year. I would be seriously be shocked if anyone liked 2nd year better than 3rd. Yeah 3rd year is rough, but year 2 of med school just plain sucks.

 

[DrBowtie]

2nd year of med school was by far the worst. I do not, and will not, miss anything about 2nd year. I would be seriously be shocked if anyone liked 2nd year better than 3rd. Yeah 3rd year is rough, but year 2 of med school just plain sucks.

And the good thing about 3rd year is that if 1 month sucks, you get something new the next month unlike my 9 month path and pharm course.

 

[whoknows2012]

being an MS2 I can't comment on how enjoyable 3rd yr will be. What I can comment on is the monotony that nearly 2 years of pre-clinical education has fostered. My life is fine dont get me wrong. I go out and see non-med school friends and family on a weekly basis. I'm generally doing well without killing myself or getting to stressed or anxious. Classes are much more interesting this yr as compared to last but theres only so much of this classroom learning I can take. With step 1 weighing heavily on my mind I just need to get all this over with. I know there will be tough times ahead and I will most certainly not enjoy everything and possibly most of 3rd yr, but I need a change nonetheless and to me it is just another step towards finishing what seemed to be a never ending goal that began when I was pre-med freshman yr of college. Many may see this as a naive outlook on 3rd yr but I am not expecting to really enjoy it so much as I'm just excited to have a change from this bs thats been going on for 2 yrs. And it also means I'm that much closer to 4th yr, which I know I will enjoy more than any of the first 3 yrs.

 

[gravitywave]

what weirds me out actually is that everyone i talk to about this seems to think that third year will be more fun than pre-clinical. when i know perfectly well that for some of us, it will not be. I hope not me.

 

[lockjaw]

what weirds me out actually is that everyone i talk to about this seems to think that third year will be more fun than pre-clinical. when i know perfectly well that for some of us, it will not be. I hope not me.

There are a couple of my classmates who disliked third year, but I think the vast majority really liked it (including me). It's just so great to finally be out of the classroom and doing what it is we came to med school to do - learn clinical medicine. Even the rotations in specialties that I had no interest in (i.e. surgery) were so much more enjoyable than sitting in class or studying for Step 1. Sure, there were individual bad days, and I definitely liked some rotations more than others, but 99% of the time 3rd year was a ton of fun and much better than the pre-clinical years.