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......asdf.fdadf
Live off of moonlighting after intern year to pursue other interests?
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"I bring a scientist. You bring a rock star." - Jurassic Park
I'm all for living the dream, and if music really lights your fire, then I think you'll find a way to make it happen.
The question is, are you just getting this out of your system, or is it really a dream? Listening to the stories of musicians who have done reasonably well, it's not a part-time gig, but many years of struggle and hard work. American Idol notwithstanding, 2-3 years isn't long enough to make a dent in the music scene.
It is difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel from the M3 year. For 3 years you've essentially been told what to do and where to go most hours of the day. You don't even get to spend much time in the clinical specialties that you really like. There is little time for pursuing outside interests such as music (or in my case, theater). Residency is likely no different. It's like having an itch that you can't scratch, knowing that you are incomplete without paying attention to this part of you that is creative in some way.
I don't know how hospitals will feel about you working in their ER if you're not at least in a training program. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in on this. Residency programs may also take a dim view of you leaving midstream, and you may have trouble getting back in if you started a 1-3 EM program. Remember, though, that your med school loans (if you have any) are deferred only as long as you are in a training program, i.e., residency. If you take off after intern year, you'll have to start paying them back. Therefore you may need a little more money than your typical starving artist. You may also need your own malpractice insurance and licensing fees and so forth.
You may consider finishing all 3 years of EM residency first. Suck it up for these last few years and finish your training. Then you'll be fully credentialled and can do whatever you like. You may also find then that you have more free time to pursue music and don't need to drop everything that you're doing to make it happen.
Also, I hear that some of the residents at the Carolinas EM program are in a band with the flight nurses. They play at the halloween party and some other gigs.
'zilla
I'm all for living the dream, and if music really lights your fire, then I think you'll find a way to make it happen.
The question is, are you just getting this out of your system, or is it really a dream? Listening to the stories of musicians who have done reasonably well, it's not a part-time gig, but many years of struggle and hard work. American Idol notwithstanding, 2-3 years isn't long enough to make a dent in the music scene.
It is difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel from the M3 year. For 3 years you've essentially been told what to do and where to go most hours of the day. You don't even get to spend much time in the clinical specialties that you really like. There is little time for pursuing outside interests such as music (or in my case, theater). Residency is likely no different. It's like having an itch that you can't scratch, knowing that you are incomplete without paying attention to this part of you that is creative in some way.
I don't know how hospitals will feel about you working in their ER if you're not at least in a training program. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in on this. Residency programs may also take a dim view of you leaving midstream, and you may have trouble getting back in if you started a 1-3 EM program. Remember, though, that your med school loans (if you have any) are deferred only as long as you are in a training program, i.e., residency. If you take off after intern year, you'll have to start paying them back. Therefore you may need a little more money than your typical starving artist. You may also need your own malpractice insurance and licensing fees and so forth.
You may consider finishing all 3 years of EM residency first. Suck it up for these last few years and finish your training. Then you'll be fully credentialled and can do whatever you like. You may also find then that you have more free time to pursue music and don't need to drop everything that you're doing to make it happen.
Also, I hear that some of the residents at the Carolinas EM program are in a band with the flight nurses. They play at the halloween party and some other gigs.
'zilla
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If you have a full medical license and a DEA number, you should be able to moonlight. Most small hospitals, VAs, urgent care centers etc do not require you to be in a residency program to work there. The malpractice insurance issue is on a case by case basis. When I moonlighted I was covered by a policy of the hospital I moonlighted at, not my residency policy. It didn't cost me a cent. But remember as a moonlighter you will not get any benefits, therefore you will have to pay for your own health insurance (which is pretty darn expensive) and the like.
You'll want to investigate what your local options are for moonlighting and how many shifts you could realistically get. If there are lots of others wanting to do it or some established locum tenens working, you may not be able to get enough shifts to earn your keep. In addition, remember that the least desired shifts are nights and weekends, times presumably when you and your band mates would be practicing or working gigs.
Bottom line is that it is possible. I won't go into details about how I agree with the above poster about the difficulties in leaving a residency program and then trying to get back in, but he/she's right, or any psychological questions about whether or not the dream of music has arisen because of the doldrums of medicine and the fear of having a real, unexciting job for the rest of your list. Doctors get plenty of chicks (if that's your thing) but not as many as rock stars, even the ugly ones.
You'll want to investigate what your local options are for moonlighting and how many shifts you could realistically get. If there are lots of others wanting to do it or some established locum tenens working, you may not be able to get enough shifts to earn your keep. In addition, remember that the least desired shifts are nights and weekends, times presumably when you and your band mates would be practicing or working gigs.
Bottom line is that it is possible. I won't go into details about how I agree with the above poster about the difficulties in leaving a residency program and then trying to get back in, but he/she's right, or any psychological questions about whether or not the dream of music has arisen because of the doldrums of medicine and the fear of having a real, unexciting job for the rest of your list. Doctors get plenty of chicks (if that's your thing) but not as many as rock stars, even the ugly ones.
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Certainly it can be done. Moonlighting income can easily sustain the lifestyle you describe. You can probably do two or three shifts a month as a locums and make more than $25K/year.
There are downsides consider regarding not finishing your residency. Sure you can moonlight, but will you be well prepared for the patients you will encounter Will the quality of care you dispense be inferior to that of a trained ER doc? Will the patients be at increased risk if the above is true?
If and when you decide to complete an ER residency, if you take time off, will you have a more difficult time securing a spot?
Lastly, we are all in pursuit of a dream. Some of us dream to be doctors, others dream to be rock stars. We can't always fulfil all of our dreams, sometimes we have to choose.
So, in the end, no matter what you choose, make sure it is a choice you can live with.
Good Luck!
There are downsides consider regarding not finishing your residency. Sure you can moonlight, but will you be well prepared for the patients you will encounter Will the quality of care you dispense be inferior to that of a trained ER doc? Will the patients be at increased risk if the above is true?
If and when you decide to complete an ER residency, if you take time off, will you have a more difficult time securing a spot?
Lastly, we are all in pursuit of a dream. Some of us dream to be doctors, others dream to be rock stars. We can't always fulfil all of our dreams, sometimes we have to choose.
So, in the end, no matter what you choose, make sure it is a choice you can live with.
Good Luck!
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I say go for it. You seem like you understand that it's a long shot and probably a temporary diversion but if you don't do it now you'll regret it. If you're licensed you can possibly do some urgent care stuff or if not you could work for an insurance company. You could also do something outside of medicine just to make food $ for a while but it will make it harder to get back into it. Good luck.
BTW: LOL
BTW: LOL
This needs to be a bumper sticker or on the letter head for the AMA or something.Kimberli Cox said:Doctors get plenty of chicks (if that's your thing) but not as many as rock stars, even the ugly ones.
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docB said:
Credit needs to go to my BF who "settled" for being a Trauma surgeon since it was almost as cool as being a rock star (which was a bit of a stretch since he can't sing and doesn't play any instruments).
BTW, he's taken a job in Vegas so be on the look out for a surgeon in black leather pants.
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DocBrown said:
I dunno, 28 is still young. You won't be much older than Bono when you're inducted into the hall of fame. Besides as a an attending, even a junior one, you'd have more control over your hours and make more dough to pursue the dream. I would remind you that I wouldn't recommend not working as an EM physician after residency or you might find it difficult to find a job if the music thing doesn't pan out years down the line.
It will definitely be more difficult. Residency programs like people fresh outta school in general. Taking a year off isn't too bad, but 3 or so will make it so much harder especially if you've been away from medicine.
Again, difficult to do. I doubt your program would hold your spot for you for 3 years if you matched and then asked to defer entry.
My preference would be a combination of 1 and 3 if you really are unwilling to do number 1 straight out. That is, when you match, ask for a deferral for 2-3 years. If your program says, "no" then you finish and try for musci after your residency.
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Kimberli Cox said:Credit needs to go to my BF who "settled" for being a Trauma surgeon since it was almost as cool as being a rock star (which was a bit of a stretch since he can't sing and doesn't play any instruments).
BTW, he's taken a job in Vegas so be on the look out for a surgeon in black leather pants.
Tuh! In vegas the scrubs for the OR are made or purple leather with rhinestones. He'll fit right in.
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DocBrown said:
I'd say that if you do a year and bolt you'll burn too many bridges to get back in. The PDs all talk to each other and they'll black list you. The PDs seem to like interesting people so some time off between med school and residency wouldn't be too bad but more than 2 years and I bet they'd start to worry about what you've forgotten. Residency will chew you up and spit you out an imbittered shell of the man you are now (at least that's what it did to me). By the end you'll only be suited to play lite rock and that would be a shame.
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Wow, thanks for not ridiculing me. All of your advice is much more pertinent because you're being serious about this; I can tell you I'm damn serious about it. It's not a joke or a whim to me.
This is a big help. I value any and all comments!
This is a big help. I value any and all comments!
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docB said:
LOL! I"ll make sure to tell him. I like a little flash in my wardrobe and look good in purple so it sounds as if I'll fit right in as well.
Maybe I can hot glue gun some rhinestones to my loupes?!
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As someone who went through the same decision (formerly a rock drummer, starting my EM residency in June) I feel as if I am obliged to chime in.
I was in bands from the age of twelve until twenty two, when I quit the band I was in at the time, because I thought that they were getting too good. Yep, too good. They were at the point where they needed to tour & thus needed a drummer who could leave town for 3 months at a time. I quit so they could get a drummer who could make the commitment they deserved. What made the decision easier for me was that I had enough clinical experience under my belt to realize that I really loved medicine. Sure, there's nothing like standing in front of a roaring crowd, but there's also nothing like saving a life. Anyway, enough about me.
No offense intended, but I think your originally proposed idea is the worst of all the posibilities proposed thus far. Giving it a go right out of med school or after completing a three year residency seems like a far better option. Some will tell you that it's more difficult to apply to residency after time off, but I doubt that's anywhere near as difficult as securing a PGY-2 spot after leaving a PGY 1-3 program thereby proving yourself to be a flake. Also EM likes odd-balls, so I bet your rock star past would go over suprisingly well on the EM interview trail. Also (pt. deux) if you have M.D. after your name you'll probably be able to secure a 25k/yr job without even having a license or practicing medicine (that's just speculation, I haven't any suggestions).
On the other hand, if you do a three year EM residency you may be able to take a lot of time off to tour and still practice medicine the rest of the year once your an attending. Besides, the ED is a great place to meet society's dregs & is thus a good place to solicit bandmates. 28 years aint that old either.
Lastly, do you really feel like it's an either/or thing? I know I said I quit a band for medicine, but that was a specific circumstance. I still play, and I am in a band now that doesn't require the same level of commitment & can thus peacefully coexist with my primary vocation. Many of the artists you hear on the radio had careers when they were discovered.
P.S.: Do you have any material available for downloading? I'd be interested in hearing it.
I was in bands from the age of twelve until twenty two, when I quit the band I was in at the time, because I thought that they were getting too good. Yep, too good. They were at the point where they needed to tour & thus needed a drummer who could leave town for 3 months at a time. I quit so they could get a drummer who could make the commitment they deserved. What made the decision easier for me was that I had enough clinical experience under my belt to realize that I really loved medicine. Sure, there's nothing like standing in front of a roaring crowd, but there's also nothing like saving a life. Anyway, enough about me.
No offense intended, but I think your originally proposed idea is the worst of all the posibilities proposed thus far. Giving it a go right out of med school or after completing a three year residency seems like a far better option. Some will tell you that it's more difficult to apply to residency after time off, but I doubt that's anywhere near as difficult as securing a PGY-2 spot after leaving a PGY 1-3 program thereby proving yourself to be a flake. Also EM likes odd-balls, so I bet your rock star past would go over suprisingly well on the EM interview trail. Also (pt. deux) if you have M.D. after your name you'll probably be able to secure a 25k/yr job without even having a license or practicing medicine (that's just speculation, I haven't any suggestions).
On the other hand, if you do a three year EM residency you may be able to take a lot of time off to tour and still practice medicine the rest of the year once your an attending. Besides, the ED is a great place to meet society's dregs & is thus a good place to solicit bandmates. 28 years aint that old either.
Lastly, do you really feel like it's an either/or thing? I know I said I quit a band for medicine, but that was a specific circumstance. I still play, and I am in a band now that doesn't require the same level of commitment & can thus peacefully coexist with my primary vocation. Many of the artists you hear on the radio had careers when they were discovered.
P.S.: Do you have any material available for downloading? I'd be interested in hearing it.
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DocBrown,
I am finishing my 4th year of med school. I loved the month I did in the ER. I started to even feel comfortable with several presenting signs or symptoms by the time I finished. However, I can't imagine that I would be comfortable enough to moonlight on my own after one more year of training (internship). I'm afraid that I would always be looking stuff up or relying on help from colleagues (which I'm sure would get very burdensome to them after awhile).
Most internships that I looked into had ony 1 month of ER in their schedule. Some offered up to 4 or 5 electives (which could be used for ER training). But I just don't think that one more year of training at this point would help me to be comfortable in an ER moonlighting by myself. Although, maybe I would feel comfortable in an Urgent Care.
One thought on applying for residency: ER is very competetive. Why not apply for an ER residency anyway. If you apply for a linked program you would have until Feb to decide whether or not to rank those programs. If you apply to internships and residencies separately then your plan of taking off after internship for a few years might be more feasible.
Good luck. BTW, do any of your relatives want to adopt me? (the ones paying your med school bills that is)
Lefty
I am finishing my 4th year of med school. I loved the month I did in the ER. I started to even feel comfortable with several presenting signs or symptoms by the time I finished. However, I can't imagine that I would be comfortable enough to moonlight on my own after one more year of training (internship). I'm afraid that I would always be looking stuff up or relying on help from colleagues (which I'm sure would get very burdensome to them after awhile).
Most internships that I looked into had ony 1 month of ER in their schedule. Some offered up to 4 or 5 electives (which could be used for ER training). But I just don't think that one more year of training at this point would help me to be comfortable in an ER moonlighting by myself. Although, maybe I would feel comfortable in an Urgent Care.
One thought on applying for residency: ER is very competetive. Why not apply for an ER residency anyway. If you apply for a linked program you would have until Feb to decide whether or not to rank those programs. If you apply to internships and residencies separately then your plan of taking off after internship for a few years might be more feasible.
Good luck. BTW, do any of your relatives want to adopt me? (the ones paying your med school bills that is)
Lefty
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You know, I'd swear that when I interviewed at Carolinas they showed me a picture of the PD on stage with a guitar. I mention that to show that EM does like oddballs.
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Hey Wilco, please don't tell me that was also the name of the band you were in! Medicine is great and all, but nothing would thrill me more than filling an house with a screaming audience. I like Wilco's early stuff.
I see your point. It makes more sense to go straight into EM or into a band...not anything in between.
Yes, like in your case, music will always be a central part of my life. Like I said, I don't mind being a hobbyist, jamming with cover bands and writing my own stuff for my own enjoyment, but I really need to try to make it big, so I don't wonder.
But, it seems the safest bet is to finish residency first...that's the best "fallback career" anyone can ask for. Hopefully I'll figure it out soon.
(I'm in the process of converting my tapes into mp3's. I'll p.m. you when I have a few ready. I'd also love to hear anything you have! It always amazes me how medicine entraps some of the most creative people around.)
I see your point. It makes more sense to go straight into EM or into a band...not anything in between.
Yes, like in your case, music will always be a central part of my life. Like I said, I don't mind being a hobbyist, jamming with cover bands and writing my own stuff for my own enjoyment, but I really need to try to make it big, so I don't wonder.
But, it seems the safest bet is to finish residency first...that's the best "fallback career" anyone can ask for. Hopefully I'll figure it out soon.
(I'm in the process of converting my tapes into mp3's. I'll p.m. you when I have a few ready. I'd also love to hear anything you have! It always amazes me how medicine entraps some of the most creative people around.)
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Do a prelim year in medicine. Take a year off, moonlight, and make it big. If you don't, apply to 2-3-4 program in ED and become board certified - then become a REAL rock star .
.
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I have a cousin who is living the dream w/ the Ataris. For much of his younger years he was in other bands and was only home 2-3 months a year, the rest of the year was booking gigs wherever the band could. To make it you need to get out there and be seen not just sit around and hope someone discovers you. Living in a big city is definitely a plus i.e. NY or LA.
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raptor5 said:
here's a pic I took of the Ataris while crowdsurfing at Warped Tour 2002. A guy from Cali making a documentary entitled "Punk Rock is not dead" or something like that e-mailed me asking for the original a few weeks ago. I wrote on the back of the original so not sure if it will come out nice for the documentary. But either way..
Are any of the guys in this pic your cousin?
http://home.uchicago.edu/~yousef/pics/campus-amigos/warped-ataris.jpg
