LizzyM Score

[phunky]

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how exactly to use the LizzyM score. It seems like the equation has changed over the years, and I could use some clarification as to what the present day equation is.

Do you calculate your LizzyM score as (MCAT + GPA*10 - 1) and calculate a school's score as (avgMCAT + avgGPA*10)?

I'm also curious how people use the score to help decide where to apply. Is it implied that you should apply to schools within a few points of your range? What distance from your score is a considered a reach?

I understand that a lot of things factor into admissions besides statistics, but I really like how straightforward this tool is for helping to create a school list.

If the above equations are correct, my score is a 74. My current school list consists of ~10 schools above and ~10 schools at or below my score, ranging from 69-77. Does that sound about right?

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[CyberMaxx]

Hey OP, there is a lot of information about the LizzyM score around in this forum please see the below links for some examples:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lizzym-scores-and-validity.540806/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...interviews-acceptances-and-rejections.992147/

 

[phunky]

Hey OP, there is a lot of information about the LizzyM score around in this forum please see the below links for some examples:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lizzym-scores-and-validity.540806/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...interviews-acceptances-and-rejections.992147/

Thank you. I saw that there was lots of information, but I couldn't figure out what was most relevant, since things have been changing.

 

[Catalystik]

Do you calculate your LizzyM score as (MCAT + GPA*10 - 1) and calculate a school's score as (avgMCAT + avgGPA*10)?

IMO, if you're using the MSAR statistics, the -1 correction factor belongs with the school's score, to adjust for the fact that their acceptance figures are higher than their matriculant averages. Alternatively, add a +1 to your own score. Either way, take out the correction factor after September 1.

 

[am0912]

As far as deciding which schools to apply to, is there some numerical "handicap" for a LizzyM score (just for comparison purposes) if there is a significant upward trend? For example if someone had a 3.4 for the first 60 credits but a 3.9 for the last 60 would some correction be useful in picking a school list? Is there any hard data for how much a strong upward trend affects acceptance chances? Just some general thoughts/questions...

 

[About28]

As far as deciding which schools to apply to, is there some numerical "handicap" for a LizzyM score (just for comparison purposes) if there is a significant upward trend? For example if someone had a 3.4 for the first 60 credits but a 3.9 for the last 60 would some correction be useful in picking a school list? Is there any hard data for how much a strong upward trend affects acceptance chances? Just some general thoughts/questions...

I too have a tendency to try to overextend the purposes of the LizzyM score but it really is just a general way to find schools to apply to. I did read something a while ago that said every three weeks after August 1st that you're complete at a school subtracts one point, but who really knows?

 

[lmn]

As far as deciding which schools to apply to, is there some numerical "handicap" for a LizzyM score (just for comparison purposes) if there is a significant upward trend? For example if someone had a 3.4 for the first 60 credits but a 3.9 for the last 60 would some correction be useful in picking a school list? Is there any hard data for how much a strong upward trend affects acceptance chances? Just some general thoughts/questions...

I don't know how you would expect "hard data" for a scoring method that is really a somewhat "best guess" and although a good starting method, isn't really to be considered hard data in itself. With an upward trend, just the same as having a solid gpa across all of your ugrad, you have to be the one to decide how confident you are in your whole application, and how much of a reach risk you are willing to take when choosing schools. There isn't any hard evidence or statistics to use as a baseline, if admissions worked out in such a simple mathematical manner, you wouldn't even have to choose a list of schools.

 

[orangeman25]

Do you guys recommend averaging your science and cumulative gpas to get a more accurate LizzyM score?

 

[LizzyM]

Do you guys recommend averaging your science and cumulative gpas to get a more accurate LizzyM score?

If a med school provides avg. science GPA of its M1 class, then you can use that to compare yourself to the avg student at that school. But averaging your science and cumulative GPA and expecting that to be a more accurate way to see if you are "average" or below average for a given medical school is not reasonable.

 

[Mad Jack]

As far as deciding which schools to apply to, is there some numerical "handicap" for a LizzyM score (just for comparison purposes) if there is a significant upward trend? For example if someone had a 3.4 for the first 60 credits but a 3.9 for the last 60 would some correction be useful in picking a school list? Is there any hard data for how much a strong upward trend affects acceptance chances? Just some general thoughts/questions...

LizzyM scores aren't the be-all end-all tool for school selection. They work best for candidates that have had consistent performance over their college career and only took the MCAT once. This is fine for the majority of applicants, but if you have some scratches on your academic record- a couple bad semesters, multiple MCAT retakes, disciplinary action, whatever- LizzyM scores become less and less reliable. If you're a candidate with some dents in your record, I'd underestimate rather than overestimate your competitiveness- perhaps try subtracting 2 or 3 from your score to see what schools you will still be in the green at. The reason for this is that there will be more candidates with your exact LizzyM that don't have problems with their app versus ones that due, thus making you slightly less competitive.

That being said, the LizzyM scores are probably the best measurement out there we've got in gauging problem-free applications.

 

[Muffinho]

LizzyM scores aren't the be-all end-all tool for school selection. They work best for candidates that have had consistent performance over their college career and only took the MCAT once. This is fine for the majority of applicants, but if you have some scratches on your academic record- a couple bad semesters, multiple MCAT retakes, disciplinary action, whatever- LizzyM scores become less and less reliable. If you're a candidate with some dents in your record, I'd underestimate rather than overestimate your competitiveness- perhaps try subtracting 2 or 3 from your score to see what schools you will still be in the green at. The reason for this is that there will be more candidates with your exact LizzyM that don't have problems with their app versus ones that due, thus making you slightly less competitive.

That being said, the LizzyM scores are probably the best measurement out there we've got in gauging problem-free applications.

What about non-trads with 2 different trends of undergraduate performance? I have 120 credits from an older degree at 2.0, and 90 credits from a new degree at 4.0. I guess the LizzyM score doesn't really give strong indicators of success for individuals like me.

 

[Mad Jack]

What about non-trads with 2 different trends of undergraduate performance? I have 120 credits from an older degree at 2.0, and 90 credits from a new degree at 4.0. I guess the LizzyM score doesn't really give strong indicators of success for individuals like me.

Correct. You have unique circumstances. Certain admissions committees will be receptive to them, while others will not. The LizzyM score can't tell you that, all it can really do is tell you the places you didn't have much of a shot at to begin with even if you'd had a more consistent performance record.

 

[forfun135]

.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

GPAs from different schools can have different weights. The chance of a MIT student with 3.6/32 will be different from a no-name-school student with 3.6/32. Should the MIT student add 2 to the score?

What? They seem like pretty similar applicants to me based on the hypothetical information posted.

 

[Goro]

Maybe add +2 if you're from a "feeder" school to the med school in question. For example, any of the SUNY system to the four SUNYs (or other NY medical schools, or the UC system for the UC med schools.

As mentioned above, there are schools that believe in reinvention, so +2 if you have a >3.7 GPA at the grad level + an MCAT > 34. This will help for schools like Tufts, Drexel, Tulane, etc.

GPAs from different schools can have different weights. The chance of a MIT student with 3.6/32 will be different from a no-name-school student with 3.6/32. Should the MIT student add 2 to the score?

 

[yanks26dmb]

Maybe add +2 if you're from a "feeder" school to the med school in question. For example, any of the SUNY system to the four SUNYs (or other NY medical schools, or the UC system for the UC med schools.

As mentioned above, there are schools that believe in reinvention, so +2 if you have a >3.7 GPA at the grad level + an MCAT > 34. This will help for schools like Tufts, Drexel, Tulane, etc.

would you recommend averaging a sGPA and cGPA if they are quite far apart; 3.7/3.0 respectively.

 

[Goro]

I'll punt that one to my learned colleague LizzyM.

would you recommend averaging a sGPA and cGPA if they are quite far apart; 3.7/3.0 respectively.

 

[yanks26dmb]

I'll punt that one to my learned colleague LizzyM.

and if you wouldn't mind @LizzyM , how would one handle a significant upward trend when calculating their score? As mentioned above, my cgpa is a 3.0 due to a horrendous fresh/soph years about 12 years ago.... my last 120+ hours however are 3.5. Thank you!!

 

[LizzyM]

and if you wouldn't mind @LizzyM , how would one handle a significant upward trend when calculating their score? As mentioned above, my cgpa is a 3.0 due to a horrendous fresh/soph years about 12 years ago.... my last 120+ hours however are 3.5. Thank you!!

I would not trust this approach for a non-traditional student with a mixed record. There are schools that will screen you out if your GPA is < 3.5 even if your MCAT is >35. In your circumstances I'd recommend buying the MSAR and excluding schools that admit very few non-trads, those that admit very few OOS students (unless you are instate), and those who have a 10th percentile GPA above your GPA. And by GPA I mean your total GPA over your lifetime.

 

[yanks26dmb]

I would not trust this approach for a non-traditional student with a mixed record. There are schools that will screen you out if your GPA is < 3.5 even if your MCAT is >35. In your circumstances I'd recommend buying the MSAR and excluding schools that admit very few non-trads, those that admit very few OOS students (unless you are instate), and those who have a 10th percentile GPA above your GPA. And by GPA I mean your total GPA over your lifetime.

Thank you for the reply.

Fact of the matter is my 3.0 cGPA is below 10th percentile for every single MD school. I've got that high science GPA and my post-bacc is a 4.0. Should I really not even consider MD schools given my situation?

 

[LizzyM]

Going to AMCAS Table 25, if you aren't URM you have an above average chance of admission to an AAMC med school with a GPA of 3.0-3.19 if you have an MCAT of 33 or better. The typical applicant with that GPA scores a 27-29 on the MCAT and has a 22% chance of being admitted somewhere so I suppose you can try lower tier schools that are friendly to non-trad students. Ask around the non-trad forum for some tips.

 

[lmn]

Thank you for the reply.

Fact of the matter is my 3.0 cGPA is below 10th percentile for every single MD school. I've got that high science GPA and my post-bacc is a 4.0. Should I really not even consider MD schools given my situation?

I know someone who had a gpa that although not as low as yours, was 10% percentile or below for all the schools they applied to, but they had a good trend and a great mcat along with EC's and received many interviews. So although it is an uphill battle, it doesn't necessarily mean there is no chance.