Loan Calculator

[MaxillofacialMN]

---

Members do not see this ad.

There is this misconception that "people just want free stuff". Having a single payer system, or at least a public option, like every other industrialized county has, where your "free" healthcare is a result of you being taxed at a higher rate should have been an obvious solution to our sick system. One which Mrs. Clinton championed and wanted to bring to this country. So in essence, everyone would have to pay for their healthcare through a tax. Nobody would have free access to care. But that is close to being socialistic so many americans are against this. What they don't realize is that the cost of healthcare now is the same or more without a single payer system. For instance, because of my brain tumor I had removed two years ago, it now cost me $8,000 a year just to have health insurance under my mom. Add a $500 deductible that makes it $8500, now add every time I have to go to the doctor I pay $20 for my primary, $35 to my specialist,and $75 for every time I have to go down to Miami for my yearly hospital visit. At the end of the year, my mom pays around $9,000 just for my insurance. She makes roughly $50k a year. That's 18% of her income she pays just for me! Not including her visits for her glaucoma, and celiac issues, plus our yearly prescriptions. Add that and she pays around 20% of her yearly income just on our insurance. Now take Germany as an example of a country who has a universal multi-payer system. If you chose to accept their public option, you pay 15.5% of your yearly salary for healthcare. Much less expensive that what we have here.

I think the main point here is that even with the ACA, because the public option had to be taken out for it to pass, the cost is going to continue to rise. It will continue to rise because now the insurance companies have a monopoly since there is no longer a public option provided by the federal government which would have kept prices in check.

I am taking the perspective of a patient, not doctor, which is why I am totally for at least a public option for this country.

Not to sound insensitive, but while you think 15% is better because its cheaper, it's only cheaper for you. If I were a part of that system, I would have had to pay for your medical bills. Which is exactly how insurance works.

In 2012, my medical bills were $0. I didn't get any prescriptions, and I never visited a doctor (except for shadowing, lol). However I had to pay insurance so that you could get covered. So while it looks fantastic from your perspective to only pay 15.5%, I say that's a robbery because I cost me 15.5% I didn't use.

Again, healthy people have to pay for the sick. Germany isn't necessarily more efficient because they only pay 15.5%, but it might be because you have ongoing medical costs.

Also, it bothers me we talk about this in percentage. Why should Bill Gates have to pay more than hobo guy on the street? Are they both not humans? In reality, hobo guy will probably have higher medical costs than a Bill Gates would anyways.

 

[Buckphart]

Not to sound insensitive, but while you think 15% is better because its cheaper, it's only cheaper for you. If I were a part of that system, I would have had to pay for your medical bills. Which is exactly how insurance works.

In 2012, my medical bills were $0. I didn't get any prescriptions, and I never visited a doctor (except for shadowing, lol). However I had to pay insurance so that you could get covered. So while it looks fantastic from your perspective to only pay 15.5%, I say that's a robbery because I cost me 15.5% I didn't use.

Again, healthy people have to pay for the sick. Germany isn't necessarily more efficient because they only pay 15.5%, but it might be because you have ongoing medical costs.

Also, it bothers me we talk about this in percentage. Why should Bill Gates have to pay more than hobo guy on the street? Are they both not humans? In reality, hobo guy will probably have higher medical costs than a Bill Gates would anyways.

Bill Gates will pay 15.5% for his health insurance, as would I pay 15.5% for my health insurance. He does not pay for my insurance. Sure he pays more money than me, but that 15.5% to him is not as important as it is to someone who only makes 25k a year. I am happy for you to be fortunate enough to never have to visit a doctor. You are very lucky. Because of that, you could continue to use your private option and not have to pay lets say 15.5%. But for people who the public option is the only affordable way to obtain health care, and the tax for the public option is much less expensive than a private plan. Again because you never have to visit a doctor, the private insurance would be your best option. But a public option for those who have pre-existing conditions such as I would be the least expensive choice. Also, if you were to chose to opt in for the public option, the percentage you pay would in no way pay for me, it only pays for you. In order for me to have insurance would be for me to opt in and pay the tax. I'm not sure how you think you would also pay for me, when in fact you wouldn't.

 

[Homo sapien]

Maxillofacial, what if you need a doctor at one point and cannot afford private health insurance. Would you rather stay sick?

 

[PrePodPolice]

i just wanted to say bye to all of you b/c ive switched to candle making (in light of this discussion). good luck to all of you.

 

[footfan34]

Bill Gates will pay 15.5% for his health insurance, as would I pay 15.5% for my health insurance. He does not pay for my insurance. Sure he pays more money than me, but that 15.5% to him is not as important as it is to someone who only makes 25k a year. I am happy for you to be fortunate enough to never have to visit a doctor. You are very lucky. Because of that, you could continue to use your private option and not have to pay lets say 15.5%. But for people who the public option is the only affordable way to obtain health care, and the tax for the public option is much less expensive than a private plan. Again because you never have to visit a doctor, the private insurance would be your best option. But a public option for those who have pre-existing conditions such as I would be the least expensive choice. Also, if you were to chose to opt in for the public option, the percentage you pay would in no way pay for me, it only pays for you. In order for me to have insurance would be for me to opt in and pay the tax. I'm not sure how you think you would also pay for me, when in fact you wouldn't.

I find this interesting because I am doing my undergrad in Healthcare Administration... I would pose the question of where will the money come from to pay for your bills if the 15.5% you are paying into the system won't cover them? Then the government either has to tell a hospital that they are only going to get reimbursed what your 15.5% covers or the extra money has to come from other people's 15.5% contribution. I think that may be the issue for a lot of people.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I find this interesting because I am doing my undergrad in Healthcare Administration... I would pose the question of where will the money come from to pay for your bills if the 15.5% you are paying into the system won't cover them? Then the government either has to tell a hospital that they are only going to get reimbursed what your 15.5% covers or the extra money has to come from other people's 15.5% contribution. I think that may be the issue for a lot of people.

Exactly. Thank you!

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Maxillofacial, what if you need a doctor at one point and cannot afford private health insurance. Would you rather stay sick?

Of course not, but that's why I am studying to become a doctor that presumably gets paid well enough to be able to afford insurance.

 

[Buckphart]

I find this interesting because I am doing my undergrad in Healthcare Administration... I would pose the question of where will the money come from to pay for your bills if the 15.5% you are paying into the system won't cover them? Then the government either has to tell a hospital that they are only going to get reimbursed what your 15.5% covers or the extra money has to come from other people's 15.5% contribution. I think that may be the issue for a lot of people.

To this point, the ACA without the public option is expected to save this country about $1,168 billion dollars from 2012-2022 (CBO). With those savings, due to less waste in the system which will drive down the cost of care and make it more affordable. Therefore the 15.5% (again this is just a percentage borrowed from the German system, our number could and probably would be different), from my income would likely cover the costs of care. Also, the government is already in talks with hospitals, pharmaceutical and insurance companies renegotiating the costs of drugs and procedures. But I digress on this issue. I think we have beaten it to death and then some. I am just glad that we can have a civil conversation about such a hot topic unlike some of my other friends who can't seem to do the same. And for that I thank you all. Much 😍😍

 

[billBOB213]

I had a friend who lived in Frankfurt for a number of years and he couldn't wait to get out of Germany and their healthcare system. Sure everyone was covered, but he said the conditions reminded him of going back in time. Some highlights:
-Always shared a small room with around 6-8 people, all beds separated by curtains but never got any sleep and no TV
-He had to purchase his own catheter
-Meals sucked, usually soup and bread (and usually by a person with no gloves was handling his food-just kinda weird)
-He was issued his bowl (for soup) and utensils and had to wash it (or not) for the whole time he was there.
-It was a very cheap experience to say the least

I know some people will read that and think oh you big baby get over it, but when the government takes control they are going to cut costs on things we take for granted, and we in this country take for granted our hospital conditions. Yes it isn't like staying in a 5 star hotel, but it is a hell of a lot more comfortable than staying at a German hospital I can tell you that.

I know I am jumping in at the end (this thread took off today!) and many people are waaaay more knowledgeable than I on Obamacare and what is really happening but I just look at what businesses the government has control of now (DMV and USPS have been brought up, FEMA (I know they do good but tons of red tape and could be way more efficient in my opinion...) and they are poor at running a business and they are very inefficient with lot's of wasteful spending. I realize the system is flawed but I don't really envy Europe's healthcare systems and aren't the best doctors in the world coming to America for a reason? Not all I realize but there is a reason this is still a very sought out destination. Don't people come here from Canada if they have money and want their surgery done fast and done by the best surgeons?

Sorry for the Germany diatribe, but my parents have been in Poland and Germany for many years and they get people all the time asking what we are doing over here and why would we want their socialized healthcare. I think that the system is broken and needs to be fixed but I will respectfully disagree with those that are pro Obamacare and I don't think that it is the best way to fix the system.

 

[zdlamkin8195]

My 2¢ = Max is spot on/saving 1.1billion over 10 years by reducing quality is not really saving much compared to the TRILLIONS in debt we have/you have to be smart and need more than a desire to "help others" to go to school for 7 years and collect a huge debt.

To get back to the original post - Yes, this will be expensive and loans will add up, but if you enjoy it and are smart about the decision then the money will work itself out. I'm more afraid that we live in the society that people feel that they will need to factor $2,000/month for a house payment after med school. If you learn to be happy with not having money, then the rest of your life will be smooth sailing...

 

[ManUnderFire]

as a result of this thread, ive decided to withdraw from podiatry school.