location, location, location...

[LunderKind]

---

Members do not see this ad.

How much of a final deciding factor will location be into where you ultimately matriculate? Will it be the tie breaker if all is considered equal, or might it actually trump research strength in your field of interest?

 

[pennquaker08]

For me, if I were forced to choose between location and research I'd probably have to break for the former. I could find a different lab to work in, but not replace where the school is.

 

[FoxTrot12]

I'm with pennquaker08 on this one. I can get excited about lots of different types of research and 8+ years is a hell of a long time if you don't like where you live. 🙂

 

[Neuronix]

I did get my choice of location and research off the waitlist, but had I not gotten off the waitlist here I was prepared to go to a school for its location and lose 12 ranks on the USNews list (whatever that means).

 

[j-weezy]

I did get my choice of location and research off the waitlist, but had I not gotten off the waitlist here I was prepared to go to a school for its location and lose 12 ranks on the USNews list (whatever that means).

UCSD? UCLA?

 

[Neuronix]

Ok don't hold me to the 12 ranks, I didn't look at my old USNews rankings from the year I applied.

But I was going to go to Northwestern over Baylor.

 

[Dr.Biassi]

Ok don't hold me to the 12 ranks, I didn't look at my old USNews rankings from the year I applied.

But I was going to go to Northwestern over Baylor.

I wouldn't choose Northwestern over Baylor. Chicago is really pricy and the weather is crapy compare to cities in texas. And life in Texas is much cheaper.

 

[LunderKind]

Ok don't hold me to the 12 ranks, I didn't look at my old USNews rankings from the year I applied.

But I was going to go to Northwestern over Baylor.

What about Northwestern vs. Wash U?

 

[seraph524]

What about Northwestern vs. Wash U?

It may just be me, but I don't like the clinical aspect at Northwestern. Their hospital caters to the rich upper-middle to upper class, and I would like to be exposed to a more diverse patient population.

 

[pennquaker08]

It may just be me, but I don't like the clinical aspect at Northwestern. Their hospital caters to the rich upper-middle to upper class, and I would like to be exposed to a more diverse patient population.

= HUP, CHOP 😀.

 

[seraph524]

= HUP, CHOP 😀.

Oh man, don't even get me started...so much 😍 for Penn.

 

[LunderKind]

It may just be me, but I don't like the clinical aspect at Northwestern. Their hospital caters to the rich upper-middle to upper class, and I would like to be exposed to a more diverse patient population.

Yes, I've heard this, and I would agree. I don't think MO is going to be quite as diverse as other costal areas though either.

It just comes down to a lifestyle choice more than anything. I want to live where I'll be happy for the next 8 years...

 

[Neuronix]

= HUP, CHOP 😀.

Having been through HUP and CHOP pretty extensively I wonder where these rich upper class patients are. The closest thing you get are the few VIP Penn donors and physicians that come through. West Philly and indeed much of the city is not high income. CHOP is a major referral center, but there still I'm not seeing this catering to the rich. Most of Philadelphia's wealth is out in the suburbs and that's where the wealthy patients tend to stay unless they are complicated or somehow affiliated with Penn.

As for Northwestern, I would much rather live in a real walkable city than in a large sprawling city like Houston. At Northwestern you can live in the best part of the city and walk to class very easily where at Baylor you're pretty much doomed to biking or taking a shuttle in at best. I found the housing right around TCM to be depressing and not much cheaper than the housing near Northwestern. That was not a great part of Houston. You could live further away, but then you're looking at a drive AND a shuttle. That seems horrible to me in that ridiculous weather and traffic they had there. Chicago has cold winters, Houston has hot+humid summers. The weather is a wash.

As for the clinical aspect at any school... This might be a big *Gasp* to you pre-meds, but I don't think it matters one bit. Your clinical training really happens in residency. You don't learn how to be a clinician in medical school. That's about the last thing I'd pay attention to. Any school is also not just going to stick you in one hospital. You're going to rotate through a bunch of places and put in your rank order lists accordingly. You will likely have diverse options no matter where you go. What I'd be more interested in is does the school have lots of bull**** requirements of the MD/PhDs (like 6 month rural medicine mandatory) or do they send you far away for rotations which can be a major headache (though not a big deal in the long run).

And the NU vs. WashU question... I dunno WashU didn't interview me.

 

[pennquaker08]

I meant, HUP/CHOP do indeed cater to a more diverse patient population unlike NMH. I should know, I've been around the two for four years now!

 

[MSTPbound]

I did get my choice of location and research off the waitlist, but had I not gotten off the waitlist here I was prepared to go to a school for its location and lose 12 ranks on the USNews list (whatever that means).

That's funny... I lost exactly 12 ranks on USNews for the sake of location (Sinai instead of Pitt).

 

[gbwillner]

Ok don't hold me to the 12 ranks, I didn't look at my old USNews rankings from the year I applied.

But I was going to go to Northwestern over Baylor.

That's funny... 8 years ago I was considering the same two schools... I went 2 weeks past the deadline because I couldn't make up my mind. I really liked Chicago, and the students at NW. I also loved the fact that it was in the heart of downtown, in prime real estate. In the end, however, Baylor was just too good. The clinical training is just awesome with the diveristy we get. But even more important was the quality of the research here. I was interested in human genetics and NW just couldn't compare.

Would I have been just as well off at NW had I gone there? I really don't think so. I got my PhD from a world famous lab, with many publications... This is really your ticket once you finish the program. Maybe for some just having a PhD is enough, but I really think coming out with a quality PhD from a top-notch place is far superior, and much more important that where you went to med school.

 

[Neuronix]

Cognitive dissonance is a funny thing. We always justify our decisions based on the present because we can't possibly evaluate what would have happened elsewhere. It's better not to think you would have been better off somewhere else because that kind of thinking would just hurt yourself.

I was interested in neurosurgical topics when I was applying, something that both Baylor and NU seemed kinda shrug in (Baylor probably somewhat better). My interests changed towards Radiology for a couple reasons. The research I do now I couldn't be done at Northwestern OR Baylor and had I gone to one of these schools I more than likely wouldn't have done a Radiology PhD. Who knows what would have happened. Would I have made the best of things where I was? I like to think so considering my personal life here has been very rocky and I'm still managing to do pretty well.

Still, the value of the big name PhD is something we've debated before and will continue to disagree on. I go to a big name school, but my PhD is in a small lab with a PI who is only known in a small area of our field. Still, when I go to apply for Radiology and do research later I will be one of the few who did their PhDs in Radiology. As far as I can tell, this is a major advantage, far outweighing having done a PhD in a lab that is big name in some other area of medicine. I've also seen so many students in big name labs have major issues that I can't at all recommend being in a big name lab just because it's big name.

I also don't think that anyone is going to split hairs on the name of your MD/PhD program as long as it is in the top-25.

Anyways, it must be stated that this is just my personal bias. For me location and personal life issues are more important than things like prestige and they always have been. When I go off to residency it's entirely possible I will pick on location again and I have no issues with doing that. I was fortunate that I got my choice of location and program when I applied, but I still would have chosen location if I had to choose again. Given that I ended up with both prestige and location, I still think location is the right decision. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Ariodant]

Agree. Though it will be ideal to do your PhD in a famous lab in the right field, I would pick the latter if I can't have both.

Talking about Baylor, they really court their MSTP candidates. I've already had a committee member and a professor that I had dinner with personally emailing me to sell the school. Makes me feel guilty about declining, besides the fact that it's a superb school with caring faculties and happy students. But alas, I'm already engaged to UCSF.

 

[Neuronix]

Talking about Baylor, they really court their MSTP candidates. I've already had a committee member and a professor that I had dinner with personally emailing me to sell the school.

Are they still doing the "You're not accepted until after second look" thing or did they do away with that? Or even worse are they still doing some people are accepted before second look and some aren't game?

 

[Ariodant]

Decisions are made after "second interview". I've heard rumors about acceptance before the second interview, but I don't know if it happened this year.

 

[Neuronix]

I've heard rumors about acceptance before the second interview, but I don't know if it happened this year.

It happened to me 5 years ago. I keep posting about it on here in hopes they'll knock that silly crap off...

 

[Ariodant]

Their second interview is more like a revisit, I don't see anyone stressing out. Since it's early, it helps a lot in the decision-making process. Baylor's complicated admissions process may be fishy to some, but what I really want some schools to knock off is their May revisits. Procrastination brews mutual hatred.

 

[j-weezy]

I've already had a committee member and a professor that I had dinner with personally emailing me to sell the school. Makes me feel guilty about declining, besides the fact that it's a superb school with caring faculties and happy students.

Baylor is not unique in this regard...about 3 or 4 of the schools I've been accepted to do this and although it's flattering, it doesn't make any decisions any easier

 

[Ariodant]

Not at all. It just makes it harder to say no, which has to be said to all but one school anyway🙁

 

[gbwillner]

Cognitive dissonance is a funny thing. We always justify our decisions based on the present because we can't possibly evaluate what would have happened elsewhere. It's better not to think you would have been better off somewhere else because that kind of thinking would just hurt yourself.

I'm sure most of us are perfectly willing to state that we have made mistakes and could potentially mave made bad decisions. Given your interest in radiology, neither NW or Baylor were good fits for you regardless. I'm pretty sure we don't even give PhDs in that field. I will grant you that I may have been just as happy with NW in the end (if not more so)- but would not have been for the reasons that I sought out when I applied. I was only making that judgement in light of what I wanted when I started.

I agree that going into your paticular field having a PhD in rads is a huge advantage, because everyone with whom you interview will really understand your research. But going into your field with a PhD from a lab that is huge in that field will only help you that much more.

 

[Neuronix]

I'm pretty sure we don't even give PhDs in that field.

Nobody gives PhDs in Radiology, it's a clinical field. I just call it a Radiology PhD because it's kind of a rare offshoot of BMB or BE, which are both very diverse. My PhD is in Biochemistry and Molecular Biophysics. The other usual option would be Bioengineering for what I do, though you could spin a fMRI thesis (not what I do) as Neuroscience or certain other cognitive PhDs.

Relevant to this discussion is that the biggest powerhouse labs that I compete with are not at big name places. The biggest names in what I do are at the University of Minnesota and we compete frequently with places like NYU. There are the usual places like Stanford, Harvard affiliates, and WUSTL though which do have options, but otherwise outside of the top 6 programs it's very much a mixed big in my area. At the time however no place strong in Radiology accepted me (thankfully I came off the waitlist here) and I wasn't interested in Radiology so that was a non-issue.

So which would be worth more? Doing your Radiology PhD with a big name lab at UMN or with a lesser known lab at MGH? I argue the difference doesn't really matter and you should choose based on location. That of course only holds in the case that you can do the research you want to do at the place you pick--and I think most people coming in are broad enough that this usually isn't an issue.