Loma linda has only a 50% graduation rate

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ryandunnthethir

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Hey guys.

This year, only about half of the "graduating" class was able to get out on time. The rest are entering their FIFTH year of dental school....and yes, still paying tuition for it. The administration pretty much blames the students, but when half of the class couldn't get out on time,something is very wrong with the system.

What's worse is that for the upcoming seniors, A LOT of chair time has been taken away (I guess to accommodate the D5's) AND THEY INCREASED THE POINT REQUIREMENT BY 100!!!! So they have less time and must earn more points. Makes perfect sense, right?

My cousin goes there and is facing this problem now. He complains about it everyday. I definitely will not attend there. I encourage you all to look into attending other schools if you can as well.
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I am leaving this thread with the distinct odor of 'fishy' in the air.
 
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ProleTroll said:
If this is true, this is certainly an interesting development.

I say this because if I could have gone to any school I was thinking I would choose Loma Linda for a few reasons.

One of the biggest was that Loma Linda, looking at all the charts over the years, shows ZERO attrition. I.e. get accepted to LL=4 straight up years of d school=dentist with ZERO evidence of monkey business as far as achieving graduation by anyone accepted.

If the OP's story is true: wonder how they are going to report THAT DATA?

And yes such data would definitely take Loma Linda off my list as their acceptance=4 years d school=dentist assumption would no longer apply.

With tuition and living expenses prices being what they are, I cannot imagine that with 50% of a dental class having to pay 50k dollars or so for this additional time that the institution won't be some serious, inevitable legal repercussions.
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Actually there has been talk of legal actions. I will keep everyone updated as I get updates. If anyone tours there and is brave enough, ask about what is going on.
 
Funny how threads pop up like this around application season...
 
ryandunnthethir said:
Actually there has been talk of legal actions. I will keep everyone updated as I get updates. If anyone tours there and is brave enough, ask about what is going on.
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You should ask your cousin about what is going on.
 
ryandunnthethir said:
Do your own research man. This site is for helping other people get in and stay informed.
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I have no vested interests. I'm not going to LLU. As you suggest everyone doing their own research is a good suggestion.
 
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yappy said:
Funny how threads pop up like this around application season...
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I was thinking the exact same thing. Often by people who just recently joined the forum (in this case, yesterday) with single digit posts.
 
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Seriously?I think they have over 95% board passing rate.I visited there once, I think LLU is a great dental school.
but they seem so engrossed by applicant's volunteer work and religious background and some people with relatively low DAT and GPA got in.
This is just my personal opinion, no offense to anyone.
I know a guy converted to SDA just in order to get in LLU.
 
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Ionz said:
I was thinking the exact same thing. Often by people who just recently joined the forum (in this case, yesterday) with single digit posts.
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Ummm actually, we are just trying to get the word out to future classes so they aren't facing the same thing we are. Administration has no accountability and keep doing what they want. Good luck. And seriously- disregarding somebody because they only recently started posting on here? Do you really think SDN has that much of an effect?
 
penny49 said:
Seriously?I think they have over 95% board passing rate.I be there once, I think LLU is a great dental school.
but they are so engrossed by applicant's volunteer work and religious background and some people with relatively lower DAT and GPA got in.
This is just my personal opinion, no offense to anyone.
I know a guy converted to SDA just in order to get in LLU.
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Yes, very high boards pass rate. But they have increased the requirements so much that the classes aren't graduating on time. Usually it is anywhere from 5-10 students. This year it is about 50 students. And for the class behind us, they took away clinic time and increased the point requirement by 100...again. so chances are there will be even more.
 
ryandunnthethir said:
Hey guys.

This year, only about half of the "graduating" class was able to get out on time. The rest are entering their FIFTH year of dental school....and yes, still paying tuition for it. The administration pretty much blames the students, but when half of the class couldn't get out on time,something is very wrong with the system.

What's worse is that for the upcoming seniors, A LOT of chair time has been taken away (I guess to accommodate the D5's) AND THEY INCREASED THE POINT REQUIREMENT BY 100!!!! So they have less time and must earn more points. Makes perfect sense, right?

My cousin goes there and is facing this problem now. He complains about it everyday. I definitely will not attend there. I encourage you all to look into attending other schools if you can as well.
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ryandunnthethir said:
Yes, very high boards pass rate. But they have increased the requirements so much that the classes aren't graduating on time. Usually it is anywhere from 5-10 students. This year it is about 50 students. And for the class behind us, they took away clinic time and increased the point requirement by 100...again. so chances are there will be even more.
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ryandunnthethir said:
Ummm actually, we are just trying to get the word out to future classes so they aren't facing the same thing we are. Administration has no accountability and keep doing what they want. Good luck. And seriously- disregarding somebody because they only recently started posting on here? Do you really think SDN has that much of an effect?
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Who's 'we'? You and your cousin? Your last 2 posts make it sound like you go there when you already said you didn't. Awfully humanitarian of you to spread the good word when it has zero impact on you. And does it have an effect on here? Look around. Some people will apply where others tell them to. Some will apply to a masters program off the suggestion of others. You wish people would research for themselves and not pay attention so closely here. In this case, I hope the same. If you don't understand the skepticism, you haven't been around here much.
 
Ditto about the "we" thing.... Also, if the board passing rate is still high and it's the school requirements that are hindering students that badly, I'm pretty sure the school would change the requirements back to what it was.. Just thinking logically..
 
According to lemoncurry in another thread: "It was more than half, and many students need a couple weeks or a month to finish up requirements. There is no tuition charge for the summer quarter after grad.

Dental school is not easy, nor is it meant to be. Be prepared to work hard in order to graduate."
 
ryandunnthethir said:
Ummm actually, we are just trying to get the word out to future classes so they aren't facing the same thing we are. Administration has no accountability and keep doing what they want. Good luck. And seriously- disregarding somebody because they only recently started posting on here? Do you really think SDN has that much of an effect?
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No hard feelings on my end. I didn't apply nor am I planning to apply to LLU so this altercation has absolutely zero effect on me whatsoever. I'm just plainly stating what I've seen in past posts from the so-called "helpful newcomers"
 
ryandunnthethir said:
Ummm actually, we are just trying to get the word out to future classes so they aren't facing the same thing we are. Administration has no accountability and keep doing what they want. Good luck. And seriously- disregarding somebody because they only recently started posting on here? Do you really think SDN has that much of an effect?
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So you made a thread on SDN hoping to dissuade people from applying to LLU, and yet in that same thread, you're questioning the effect that SDN has on its community? What are you, a troll? 👎
 
Hmm I thought this thread was kinda fishy, especially since this is the OP's first post.

Seriously I love Loma Linda. I visited the campus last August. I know some great dentists who graduated from there and had nothing but great things to say about it. The school has been around for a while so I'm pretty sure they established a good system that ensures most people graduate on time.
 
I mean, I don't mean to totally discredit the claim. I just promote self-research. It's lame if some applicants don't apply there based on just this thread. Lemoncurry is a pretty valid source too. Maybe he can expound. I think the new dean took charge just yesterday (July 1) after the last guy was in there for 19 years. Maybe if something is broken, it will be addressed. Also, is it 50% graduation rate for just one year? Does it seem like it will happen again? I'm sure the lifetime grad rate is nowhere near 50%. Point: do your own homework.
 
There are some "5th" year dental students certainly not 1/2 the class. This is a highly accredited university and by no means would a graduate level of that size be tolerated These 5th years also do alot of their chair time during breaks when we are not here. Many of the people I know that are 5th years have good reason for being there as a 5th year. So where there might be some times where finding chair time is a struggle the struggle is more that you have to find patients that meet your requirements for points, get these patients to agree to the treatment and the cost, and then have those patients actually follow through with the treatment. This is not an LLU issue that is going to be an issue in any clinic in any dental school and you will hear every dental student complain about it. So the burden rests on you as a student entering clinic to stay up on your requirements and not procrastinate, have a good chair-side manner with your patients and make sure they understand the necessity of the treatment that you are recommending to them. The school does not accept more than it can handle and the burden is on us as students not to procrastinate on your clinic requirements. In this forum this person recommend that you look at other schools and that is your right but also know that LLU is very very well known for their graduates have clinical skills above and beyond the competencies of most other dental schools across the country. They have this reputation for a reason!
 
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I detect some fishy-ness in the posts by the OP.

I think the OP is probably applying to LL and is trying to discourage his/ her competition from applying because he/ she doesn't have very competitive stats. Just a guess
 
Dental school would definitely take me 5 years to complete without immediate access to caffeine.😀
 
Those who are suspicious are right to be so. What motivation would someone have to post something negative about a school?

Every year, there are students who do not finish their requirements by graduation date. If this does not happen at every school, I would be surprised.

At LLU, if you need to finish up, you do NOT have to pay tuition for the summer quarter after graduation, just some clinic fees. If you have to stay into the Fall quarter, then you will have to pay tuition.

The part about the point requirement being higher is technically true, but they also added the ability to get points from Peds clinic procedures. Don't take everything you read on the internet at face value.

Graduating dental school is not meant to be a walk in the park. LLU's requirements are fairly steep, but I am eternally grateful for that. It could potentially mean the difference between NEEDING a GPR after grad or simply WANTING to do one.

Staying a bit longer after graduation is not a horrible thing, which I know from experience. "D5s" are treated "better" than the other students because they have more experience and are trusted more (at least in my experience). Sure, you have to clear out all your lockers and consolidate to one, and it is more of a gamble to get a chair in clinic, but I NEVER had a problem getting a chair at the time I wanted one. If I had a patient who could come in at a certain time, I never had to wait more than 30 minutes to get a chair, and that was rare.

The lesson is that you can't judge a school based on the ranting and raving of a disgruntled student/applicant. There is always more information that you need to know, and every person's situation is different.
 
penny49 said:
Seriously?I think they have over 95% board passing rate.I visited there once, I think LLU is a great dental school.
but they seem so engrossed by applicant's volunteer work and religious background and some people with relatively low DAT and GPA got in.
This is just my personal opinion, no offense to anyone.
I know a guy converted to SDA just in order to get in LLU.
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95% board passing rate is normal. I go to USC, which is widely regarded as one of the worst academic dental institutions in the country. Last year USC's board passage rate was 94%. The boards are extremely easy to pass and there are no consequences to failing and retaking except for financial loss. With the boards now P/F this is the last criteria you should judge a school by IMO.
 
This was a regular problem at USC for years so I am not surprised it is occurring at other schools. The only reason why USC cleaned up its act and started graduating students on time was because of legal threats and alumni involvement. I can tell you that it was a huge problem with the way the clinic was set up. Now that I am in clinic I can completely understand why students could not graduate on time.

Are there plenty of lazy students? Absolutely, these students have nobody to blame but themselves. However, I would like to think though that when paying a school somewhere around 400,000 dollars to attend that they could do a decent job of distributing patients and streamlining things and letting students know what they have to do to graduate on time. Most people who have made it to dental school are pretty motivated.

Loma Linda, like USC, is widely considered to be one of the better "clinical" schools around. They obtain this reputation by requiring students to do more procedures. USC was forced to cut the number of requirements and graduate students who were below requirements because of its past problems. Now they don't have a problem with graduating on time and only the students who really deserve to stay have to stay. I think it is ridiculous that a school like USC or Loma Linda, which is only around 20,000 less then USC in overall cost and in a much more isolated area, can carry 50% or more of a class beyond graduation, forcing them to take on even more debt.
 
I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I go to LLUSD and there were 45 students that weren't able to graduate on time out of a class of 102. It has been a very big deal and a very big problem for all the students (and faculty). I don't think letting other people know there are these issues at LLU is offensive. These issues that they are trying to work out have affected people's decisions and job choices after graduation, including whether or not they would go into a specialty program. I am in my last year and it is difficult knowing that we are heading in a similar direction- it puts a lot of added stress having seen how it has affected this most recent class. If you are looking at different schools I would definitely weigh that as part of my decision because it becomes a very big deal when you are ready to graduate.
 
puggiesmom said:
I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I go to LLUSD and there were 45 students that weren't able to graduate on time out of a class of 102. It has been a very big deal and a very big problem for all the students (and faculty). I don't think letting other people know there are these issues at LLU is offensive. These issues that they are trying to work out have affected people's decisions and job choices after graduation, including whether or not they would go into a specialty program. I am in my last year and it is difficult knowing that we are heading in a similar direction- it puts a lot of added stress having seen how it has affected this most recent class. If you are looking at different schools I would definitely weigh that as part of my decision because it becomes a very big deal when you are ready to graduate.
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So, with all your busy work as a dental student, you joined SDN not to relieve boredom or pressure, but to warn pre-dents (not discuss it with other dental students) to not attend LLU? You also just happened to find a thread specifically geared at warning people and decided to chime in? How (lucky and) magnanimous of you.

There is certainly no need to provide evidence to back up your claim, nor to doubt the legitimacy of your post!
 
puggiesmom said:
I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I go to LLUSD and there were 45 students that weren't able to graduate on time out of a class of 102. It has been a very big deal and a very big problem for all the students (and faculty). I don't think letting other people know there are these issues at LLU is offensive. These issues that they are trying to work out have affected people's decisions and job choices after graduation, including whether or not they would go into a specialty program. I am in my last year and it is difficult knowing that we are heading in a similar direction- it puts a lot of added stress having seen how it has affected this most recent class. If you are looking at different schools I would definitely weigh that as part of my decision because it becomes a very big deal when you are ready to graduate.
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spongebob_rainbow4site.jpg
 
lemoncurry said:
I can vouch for puggiesmom as being a student at LLU.
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That's pretty worrying for LLU applicants then. I don't think it was a bad thing to be skeptical, as that's definitely a bold claim. Seems really unfair to students if the program has been modified in a way that stops 50% of them from graduating on time.
 
at least it's good news for desperate international students.
 
It's not that it is a matter of policy not to graduate people, I think the problem is that they are trying to regulate things better when it comes to clinic reqs but too much of the responsibility for enforcing has come down to one person and it is a huge bottleneck. Once administration figures this out, then things should start to improve. But this isn't something that is a deep down culturally ingrained thing.
 
lemoncurry said:
It's not that it is a matter of policy not to graduate people, I think the problem is that they are trying to regulate things better when it comes to clinic reqs but too much of the responsibility for enforcing has come down to one person and it is a huge bottleneck. Once administration figures this out, then things should start to improve. But this isn't something that is a deep down culturally ingrained thing.
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Just curious, is this one person materially, physically present?
 
what an interesting case of a person being treated like a troll... and in reality, we were the trolls. :wow:

crap, i'm gonna give up all hopes of converting to SDA. j/k. 😛

Hopefully it'll all be resolved soon. Really terrible for people that have worked hard for years and are getting stuck on administrative issues.
 
Just thought I would throw in an update. They have done away with the point system at LLU and switched to a competency based system. It appears the problem has been fixed. My former classmates are all graduating on time and people are less up in arms. FYI I was a one time dental student at this place, its a good school and the faculty has your back even if you do something crazy like switch professions.(I left for medical school) Do not let this post dissuade you from applying here, the only gripe I have about the place is the price:O!
 
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