LONG POST WAMC Advice, School list for a second undergrad, "mature" student (reapp)

[hopefulmed97]

Hi everyone

I've made a post here before, but I've decided to post an updated version of my app.
I recently decided to pursue a second undergrad since my GPA from the first one is so low.

My first undergrad is in biochem, and my GPA was about a 3.1/4.0 (upward trend of 2.5 ish to 3.7 ish).
I went back to school to complete an M.Sc. in bioscience (with a drug design/synthetic chemistry focus - I made a bunch of compounds, some that have never been synthesized and published before, and tested them for antimicrobial properties). My GPA in graduate school (15 credit hours) is a 4.0. I have 2 first author publications from this work, and likely 1 more this year.

I've recently decided to go back for a second undergrad (3-year BA) in psychology. I am confident that I can achieve a 3.7-4.0 GPA with this degree, as personal circumstances influenced my 1st undergrad GPA and I am a significantly stronger student now.

Additionally, I've secured a clinical job at a neurology clinic with an MD/PhD neuro-ophthalmologist who is wonderful and wants me to get into med school just as bad as I want to myself. He has research projects outside of his clinic that he wants me to work on with him which will hopefully strengthen my app. Clinical experience was a huge weakness for me this cycle.

My MCAT was a 507 (128/126/127/126). I am going to rewrite it summer 2024 and aiming to score a 512+.

My current experiences: I have about 1000 hours of hockey, 200 hours volunteering at a health centre, 100 hours in a science museum, 6000 hours of research (from undergrad + Msc), tons of teaching experience at my university in the chemistry and biology departments, and 7 poster submissions/presentations/conferences. I am also a Canadian, rural, low SES, LGBTQ+ (lesbian), Arab, female applicant.

My reference letters come from faculty at my university, and they are fantastic references. I feel like this was the only strong thing about my application this year.

I've been told on this sub my app is better suited for a PhD. I know this already. However, I made the change to pursue an MD in my last year of undergrad. I thought an MSc would help, and I love research, but I realize now that it doesn't? Especially as a Canadian student applying to Canadian schools (which don't care about grad education).

My plan is to apply for the 2025-2026 or 2026-2025 cycle, meaning that I have 2-3 years to increase my GPA and gain more clinical experience.

What schools should I consider in the future? What are your thoughts on this proposed journey?
Please be kind and respectful. I'm not looking for rude comments, I just need some advice.
Thanks for reading.

EDIT: i applied late this cycle, and my MCAT wasnt available/sent to schools until the end of september which was a terrible idea - I know.

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[candbgirl]

Are you applying to Canadian schools AND American schools?

Do you think that your new undergrad degree will replace your first undergrad degree? I don’t think it will. I think that all of those grades will be combined. You should check how this will all be listed in AMCAS .

As to graduate course degrees, it’s not that the schools don’t care. It’s that in many cases grad grades are inflated. Graduate students are expected to do very well so high grades is what schools expect.

Since you are a Canadian I’m not sure how schools will look at your ECs. Maybe one of our ADCOM members will respond to your ECs. I do know that International students are expected to be super stars and well rounded.

Are you applying MD/PhD or MD?

And I don’t think a late September MCAT release was a detriment to your application.

Good luck as you move forward.

 

[hopefulmed97]

Are you applying to Canadian schools AND American schools?

Do you think that your new undergrad degree will replace your first undergrad degree? I don’t think it will. I think that all of those grades will be combined. You should check how this will all be listed in AMCAS .

As to graduate course degrees, it’s not that the schools don’t care. It’s that in many cases grad grades are inflated. Graduate students are expected to do very well so high grades is what schools expect.

Since you are a Canadian I’m not sure how schools will look at your ECs. Maybe one of our ADCOM members will respond to your ECs. I do know that International students are expected to be super stars and well rounded.

Are you applying MD/PhD or MD?

And I don’t think a late September MCAT release was a detriment to your application.

Good luck as you move forward.

Hi! Thanks for the response.

I was under the impression that their would be more weight applied to the later degree for american schools, simply because its a better representation of me as a student today vs 8 years ago when I was a kid. Some schools in Canada will consider the last 2-3 years of your undergrad (so if you did another undergrad or extra years of just boosters thats what they count), my IP school will take your second degree GPA over the first degree.

Yes, i want to apply to the USA and Canadian schools.

I want to apply MD/PhD very badly, but I know i'm not competitive enough based on my stats :/. I would be very happy just applying the MD stream and consider a PhD after. The doc i work with did this.

I say September was a bad idea because technically i wasn't complete on secondaries until after they received my MCAT.

Thanks for the good luck. your response is appreciated.

 

[chilly_md]

You will need to do well in science courses, especially upper-division ones such as immunology, toxicology etc. The psych degree is not going to help if you are just taking mostly the courses needed for the degree requirements.

You will need a significant amount of clinical experience and non-clinical volunteering to the underserved. American schools are difficult for Canadians to get into. Wayne State is one that accepts Canadians and is service-oriented. Look into the DO schools that do as well.

 

[hopefulmed97]

You will need to do well in science courses, especially upper-division ones such as immunology, toxicology etc. The psych degree is not going to help if you are just taking mostly the courses needed for the degree requirements.

You will need a significant amount of clinical experience and non-clinical volunteering to the underserved. American schools are difficult for Canadians to get into. Wayne State is one that accepts Canadians and is service-oriented. Look into the DO schools that do as well.

The second degree wont help? Should i pursue the PhD then? That would be my only opportunity to take more higher level courses in science. I have taken 5 so far, and received an A+ in all of them at the graduate level. I would be very okay and quite happy doing a PhD if it will help me get into medicine. I really enjoy research and enjoyed my M.Sc.

I am looking for volunteering experiences now for sure. I know I lack that experience.

 

[chilly_md]

The second degree wont help? Should i pursue the PhD then? That would be my only opportunity to take more higher level courses in science. I have taken 5 so far, and received an A+ in all of them at the graduate level. I would be very okay and quite happy doing a PhD if it will help me get into medicine. I really enjoy research and enjoyed my M.Sc.

I am looking for volunteering experiences now for sure. I know I lack that experience.

It won’t help and you shouldn’t be spending time getting a PhD just to get into medicine. Are you saying you have already taken all the upper division sciences at your local university?

 

[hopefulmed97]

It won’t help and you shouldn’t be spending time getting a PhD just to get into medicine. Are you saying you have already taken all the upper division sciences at your local university?

I enjoy research and if I never got into medicine, it might be a nice backup to have. If it gave me a competitive edge for med apps, that would be a bonus.

I have taken the higher level sciences, yes. My last year of undergrad I took the 4th sciences I needed to take for my degree (and did very well, hence the comment about an upward trend in my undergrad GPA), and then I took 5 grad level courses and did very well in those too.

 

[chilly_md]

I enjoy research and if I never got into medicine, it might be a nice backup to have. If it gave me a competitive edge for med apps, that would be a bonus.

I have taken the higher level sciences, yes. My last year of undergrad I took the 4th sciences I needed to take for my degree (and did very well, hence the comment about an upward trend in my undergrad GPA), and then I took 5 grad level courses and did very well in those too.

So you took 4 higher level science courses? Or 4th year sciences? How many credits were those? I have not gotten a clear idea based on what you have been posting. Regardless, I think your chances at US MD schools are very low no matter what you do. You can look into each Canadian medical school to see how they approach your grades and whether you would benefit from following Goro's reinvention guide:

Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention (updated for 2021)

EDIT: Post in WAMC forum for recommended school lists. This thread isn't for that. So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling. But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take...

forums.studentdoctor.net

At this stage, you would be better off applying to the DO schools that accept Canadians, including UNE and Michigan State.

Canadian nationals are not eligible for US government loans and you may be expected to prove you have the funds to pay at a US school. If this is not possible, you will have to pursue a career in research instead of medicine if you do not receive acceptance into a Canadian medical school.

 

[hopefulmed97]

So you took 4 higher level science courses? Or 4th year sciences? How many credits were those? I have not gotten a clear idea based on what you have been posting. Regardless, I think your chances at US MD schools are very low no matter what you do. You can look into each Canadian medical school to see how they approach your grades and whether you would benefit from following Goro's reinvention guide:

Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention (updated for 2021)

EDIT: Post in WAMC forum for recommended school lists. This thread isn't for that. So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling. But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take...

forums.studentdoctor.net

At this stage, you would be better off applying to the DO schools that accept Canadians, including UNE and Michigan State.

Canadian nationals are not eligible for US government loans and you may be expected to prove you have the funds to pay at a US school. If this is not possible, you will have to pursue a career in research instead of medicine if you do not receive acceptance into a Canadian medical school.

No - sorry I missed a word. I meant to say I did well in my 4th year courses (ie higher level science courses, 24 credit hours) and did well in my grad courses (which are also science courses).

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback.
Take care.