(Long read)Somewhat of a unique situation

[bautile]

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I hope this is the right place to post this 😕 but anyway:

I've been combing the threads to find an answer or at least a situation similar to mine but have come up short. I guess I should be true to my word and tell you how my situation's unique. I moved to the US from Saudi Arabia in the fall of '05 to start undergrad and graduated in may of this year. My family came to visit in the summer of 2007 and a hospital that has been trying to recruit my dad offered him a job which he took. So to make a possibly long story short, my family is currently in the process of immigrating to the US. Now immediately you would think that I am applying as an international student, but here's the "uniquity" of the situation: the petition by the hospital for my dad, and consequently myself, to change status to immigrants has been approved but are waiting on available visa numbers. It has currently been 2 years and still no definitive date as to when any green card numbers will be available. I am not a Saudi national but a Filipino national. My younger sister started college this year and was considered in-state by showing the registrar of her school proof of our pending application.

My stats are:
graduated in May with a cGPA of 3.36 (freshman gpa 2.95 - senior gpa 3.7) and sGPA of 3.23
took the september MCAT, didnt do so hot 7(PS), 7(VR), 8(BS), M(WS) so a 22M👎
--I really was not planning on taking the september mcat as I was waiting to take the January (I read in the 09-10 CIB that NECOM and WesternU don't look at September MCATs. Therefore I did not really study extensively for any of the sections, and never took any practice exams.)
I can get strong LOR, one from a DO and another from a biology/chemistry professor that I have worked with extensively.
I have good ECs (convenors for clubs in college, TA for microbio I, varsity basketball) as well as 2 research experiences (1 was an "independent" study) but no recent clinical experience (mainly due to no time ie. requirement for international student scholarship was to have a 10 hour a week job, with labs and TA'ing during the afternoon and then basketball practice immediately after.)

Finally *whew* the big questions
1. (you knew this was coming) What are my chances of getting into any DO schools only (not interested in MDs) for this cycle? (I know it's SDN "late" in the cycle)
2. I am definitely retaking my MCATs in January, should I wait until I get those scores back to apply or should I just chance it with my current scores?
3. I know that it's doubtful that anyone of you are immigration specialists and I should ask elsewhere, but would I be considered a permanent resident (therefore making my chances a little bit better)?

Thank you in advance 🙂

 

[just one]

1. Even if you are not international, your stats are still low, so I'm gonna say long shot.
2. If you apply now, you probably won't get an interview til after January, but if you wait til after MCAT is back then you for sure won't get an interview. I would apply now and update schools when new score comes in.
3. I don't care what anyone else says, CONTACT THE SCHOOLS, only they will give you an accurate answer.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

The only thing that would be holding you back would probably be your MCAT, so definitely retake that and aim high 27+. I think its possible that you can get an interview after Jan, but it would mostly be for a waitlist spot. You can check past threads and see how students faired with applying after Jan. But this year seems to have some stiff competition so I would say your chances maybe slim, but I can't say for sure.

Is it possible for you to wait until next cycle to apply? That way you can apply earlier and have a better chance of getting in versus applying now or in Jan and ending up on the waitlist or rejected. There's still a small chance of getting accepted though, but realize your odds are better if you wait until next cycle.

I agree with Just, I would contact the schools and ask what are their policies. But here's a thread that has a list of some schools on it.

 

[redrok]

Your MCAT is on the low end, but I am thinking that is actually the least of your worries.

My wife is from Taiwan and when we got married, there was about 6 months from the time we filed for her green card to the time she received it that she pretty much was stuck in limbo and could not do anything but sit at home and watch TV. I think you really should contact each school you want to apply to and get a solid answer to how they feel about your situation.

Also, unless your family is extremely wealthy and willing to give that wealth to you for at least the next 4 years until they get payment back, you'll need financial help - how does your status affect getting loans, etc. I'm guessing you will not qualify for stafford loans.

If you can overcome the financial problem and find schools that are cool with your status, then you will really need to focus on the MCAT. With an average GPA, you really need around 26-27+ MCAT.

 

[bautile]

well I don't really have the luxury of waiting 'til next year seeing as how my dad is thinking about abandoning the wait even though we are just in the waiting stage. The only reason for this is that my mom's visit visa was cancelled at immigration because they suspected that she will overstay and violate her privileges even though she has been in and out of the country several times without violating any rules at all.

@redrok, the fastest green card route is marrying a citizen, but unfortunately that is in a different category in what I consider to be a broken immigration system 🙁

but for total clarification, I am definetely retaking the MCAT in january and am very confident that I will score at the minimum in the high 20s. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm getting from you guys as the best plan of action would be to be complete with my application and submit it with the low MCAT. My only concern would be that I would get rejected automatically by schools that consider the january mcat. Would this be true if I have a january intended test date on my application?

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

Verifications at AACOMAS are now taking 6 - 8 weeks. The D.O. schools will see a low MCAT score and your intent to re-take in January. While only the schools know for sure, most likely your application won't be reviewed until January at the earliest and again in early March when the January MCAT scores are released. Your GPA is competite but not stellar. An interview so late in the process is likely for a wait list seat at best. Your chances of admission are slim.

Your immigration status is problematic. I suggest that you see an immigration lawyer ASAP and sort through this. If your family leaves you have to go with them as your status is tied to your father's unless you apply for a student visa on your own. To do that you need an acceptance letter.

Perhaps you can spend a year at a Masters program at a D.O. school. Acceptance should be easy an you get a student visa. Money could be a problem as you would not be entitled to U.S. loans. This would give you a year to obtain permanent resident status and qualify as an "American" applicant rather than an international student.

Another option is the Caribbean. A student visa is easy to obtain for your third and fourth year to study in the U.S. If you obtain a U.S. residency in four years from now, permanent residency is a virtual certainty.

 

[nikon]

No you would be considered an international student as such you should only apply to schools that consider international applicants (use CIB). Permanent residency is defined as possession of the actual green card, not approval of I-140 immigration petition. I-485 situation is unfortunate, but focus on what you can control.

I hope this is the right place to post this 😕 but anyway:

I've been combing the threads to find an answer or at least a situation similar to mine but have come up short. I guess I should be true to my word and tell you how my situation's unique. I moved to the US from Saudi Arabia in the fall of '05 to start undergrad and graduated in may of this year. My family came to visit in the summer of 2007 and a hospital that has been trying to recruit my dad offered him a job which he took. So to make a possibly long story short, my family is currently in the process of immigrating to the US. Now immediately you would think that I am applying as an international student, but here's the "uniquity" of the situation: the petition by the hospital for my dad, and consequently myself, to change status to immigrants has been approved but are waiting on available visa numbers. It has currently been 2 years and still no definitive date as to when any green card numbers will be available. I am not a Saudi national but a Filipino national. My younger sister started college this year and was considered in-state by showing the registrar of her school proof of our pending application.

My stats are:
graduated in May with a cGPA of 3.36 (freshman gpa 2.95 - senior gpa 3.7) and sGPA of 3.23
took the september MCAT, didnt do so hot 7(PS), 7(VR), 8(BS), M(WS) so a 22M👎
--I really was not planning on taking the september mcat as I was waiting to take the January (I read in the 09-10 CIB that NECOM and WesternU don't look at September MCATs. Therefore I did not really study extensively for any of the sections, and never took any practice exams.)
I can get strong LOR, one from a DO and another from a biology/chemistry professor that I have worked with extensively.
I have good ECs (convenors for clubs in college, TA for microbio I, varsity basketball) as well as 2 research experiences (1 was an "independent" study) but no recent clinical experience (mainly due to no time ie. requirement for international student scholarship was to have a 10 hour a week job, with labs and TA'ing during the afternoon and then basketball practice immediately after.)

Finally *whew* the big questions
1. (you knew this was coming) What are my chances of getting into any DO schools only (not interested in MDs) for this cycle? (I know it's SDN "late" in the cycle)
2. I am definitely retaking my MCATs in January, should I wait until I get those scores back to apply or should I just chance it with my current scores?
3. I know that it's doubtful that anyone of you are immigration specialists and I should ask elsewhere, but would I be considered a permanent resident (therefore making my chances a little bit better)?

Thank you in advance 🙂

 

[nikon]

Redrok brings up another important point: how are you gonna pay for your tuition. Of schools that take international student, most would like to see some sort of financial documents showing you can pay for your med education. And right, since you are not permanent resident yet, I don't think you would be eligible for loans.

Your MCAT is on the low end, but I am thinking that is actually the least of your worries.

My wife is from Taiwan and when we got married, there was about 6 months from the time we filed for her green card to the time she received it that she pretty much was stuck in limbo and could not do anything but sit at home and watch TV. I think you really should contact each school you want to apply to and get a solid answer to how they feel about your situation.

Also, unless your family is extremely wealthy and willing to give that wealth to you for at least the next 4 years until they get payment back, you'll need financial help - how does your status affect getting loans, etc. I'm guessing you will not qualify for stafford loans.

If you can overcome the financial problem and find schools that are cool with your status, then you will really need to focus on the MCAT. With an average GPA, you really need around 26-27+ MCAT.

 

[redrok]

I agree that you really should see an immigration lawyer. One thing you will need to be careful of no matter what happens (since I have been through this with my wife - and yes it was easier, but still a pain to go through what we had to) is that once you begin immigration proceedings, you can no longer enter the country on a student visa (or even apply for one if I remember right) unless you want to forfeit your immigration status.

This was the reason my wife could not do anything for six months. She could not leave the country to visit family, could not apply for school, could not work, could not do anything, otherwise we would have had to start the immigration process all over again. Luckily for us we were applying for immigration through the marriage category, but the same rules apply once the documentation has been submitted.

There might be legal ways to work through some of these things considering the time you must wait for your A#, but I know that most schools will either want a copy of your green card or student visa.

I would be very careful that you don't do something you will regret.

 

[bautile]

Redrok brings up another important point: how are you gonna pay for your tuition. Of schools that take international student, most would like to see some sort of financial documents showing you can pay for your med education. And right, since you are not permanent resident yet, I don't think you would be eligible for loans.

believe it or not, tuition money is not an issue. our immigration lawyer has said that we have lawful status and can are considered residents (which is why my sister is paying in-state tuition instead of oos or international student tuition). My uncertainty lies in the california touro school as they have specifically stated (I don't remember where exactly) that I need my green card in hand.

I agree that you really should see an immigration lawyer. One thing you will need to be careful of no matter what happens (since I have been through this with my wife - and yes it was easier, but still a pain to go through what we had to) is that once you begin immigration proceedings, you can no longer enter the country on a student visa (or even apply for one if I remember right) unless you want to forfeit your immigration status.
This was the reason my wife could not do anything for six months. She could not leave the country to visit family, could not apply for school, could not work, could not do anything, otherwise we would have had to start the immigration process all over again. Luckily for us we were applying for immigration through the marriage category, but the same rules apply once the documentation has been submitted.

There might be legal ways to work through some of these things considering the time you must wait for your A#, but I know that most schools will either want a copy of your green card or student visa.

I would be very careful that you don't do something you will regret.

Thanks for this, I wasn't aware of not being able to change status. I will bring it up with my dad and see about talking to our lawyer. On a side note, I already have an A#, I received my EAD (work permit) a couple of months ago, and I have my 1 year OPT (optional practical training) which permits me to "overstay" my F1 visa for one year.
On a side note, I'm not 100% sure but your wife could have applied for AP (advance parole) which would have allowed her to leave the country. Not that it really matters at this point 😉.

Verifications at AACOMAS are now taking 6 - 8 weeks. The D.O. schools will see a low MCAT score and your intent to re-take in January. While only the schools know for sure, most likely your application won't be reviewed until January at the earliest and again in early March when the January MCAT scores are released. Your GPA is competite but not stellar. An interview so late in the process is likely for a wait list seat at best. Your chances of admission are slim.

Your immigration status is problematic. I suggest that you see an immigration lawyer ASAP and sort through this. If your family leaves you have to go with them as your status is tied to your father's unless you apply for a student visa on your own. To do that you need an acceptance letter.

Perhaps you can spend a year at a Masters program at a D.O. school. Acceptance should be easy an you get a student visa. Money could be a problem as you would not be entitled to U.S. loans. This would give you a year to obtain permanent resident status and qualify as an "American" applicant rather than an international student.

Another option is the Caribbean. A student visa is easy to obtain for your third and fourth year to study in the U.S. If you obtain a U.S. residency in four years from now, permanent residency is a virtual certainty.

If the masters program is the only option, what redrok said about not being able to change status would be my greatest concern. We've been waiting for more than 2 years for our green card to arrive and 'til now no one really knows when or how long it will take.

 

[redrok]

That's great if money is not an issue.

I truly feel for you as we actually did apply for both a working permit and advanced parole so that she could at least work and go home if there was an emergency in the family. We received the working permit and advanced parole travel documents about two weeks before the interview for the green card (at which time they took the working permit and travel documents away from us to replace them with the GC), so they were useless to us - it really sucked, but we were happy to get the GC, so we didn't think much more into it.

I would really ask your lawyer (as it sounds like you already have one) about getting a student visa. See my wife already had one (we met at school) and they voided hers and told us that if we used it to travel that would cause red flags in the system where we were undergoing immigration proceedings.

If you already have been assigned an A# that is a very good. I would check about getting a student visa and see what other options you have from that lawyer, then start contacting schools so you know if they will consider your application.

Once you have that taken care of, the MCAT then becomes the issue - it is going to hurt you. And at this point in the app cycle, you are going to really be behind when you get new scores. Are you scoring considerably higher on practice exams (like around 27+). If you are, then I think you would still have a good shot, but if you are in the lower or mid 20's, you might have more trouble.

 

[bautile]

i havent taken any practice exams yet, prepping to start actual mcat studying. Seeing as how I got a 22 without really applying myself, I'm fairly confident that I can get at least in the high 20s. I just powered through the exam and didnt take all the time for breaks, ended up with severe eye fatigue nearing the end of the PS section, and definitely had to keep rereading several sections of the passages in VR section. I've done some research and what (I think) I really need to do to do well is take practice exams and just familiarize myself with the format and philosophy. I am usually a very good test taker, just never really done computerized testing before so its something new.
Assuming the worst (excluding straight rejections from all the schools 😛) would a 27+ at least get me a couple of interviews somewhere?

 

[nikon]

You are not listening closely to what I was saying.

I KNOW because I work with paralegals and immigration attorneys.

Your state university can accept you as instate student for tuition purpose, based on your approved I-140 (as in your sister's case). That's at the school's discretion. Legally speaking, as long as your I-485 is pending, your status is not "permanent resident".

Since you have EAD card, you can work without problem. And while your I-485 is pending, you can legally stay in the US and go to school with no need for F1 visa. Your legal status is "I-485 pending".

However, most med schools require "permanent resident" status, not "pending permanent resident". Got it?

You are welcome to get billed $150 an hour for consultation with an immigration attorney.

It's good you have the funds to pay for tuition. Just focus on the schools that recruit international student and save you the headache. Or else give it a year and see how the priority date moves and in the meanwhile improve your MCAT.

believe it or not, tuition money is not an issue. our immigration lawyer has said that we have lawful status and can are considered residents (which is why my sister is paying in-state tuition instead of oos or international student tuition). My uncertainty lies in the california touro school as they have specifically stated (I don't remember where exactly) that I need my green card in hand.

 

[bautile]

You are not listening closely to what I was saying.

I KNOW because I work with paralegals and immigration attorneys.

Your state university can accept you as instate student for tuition purpose, based on your approved I-140 (as in your sister's case). That's at the school's discretion. Legally speaking, as long as your I-485 is pending, your status is not "permanent resident".

Since you have EAD card, you can work without problem. And while your I-485 is pending, you can legally stay in the US and go to school with no need for F1 visa. Your legal status is "I-485 pending".

However, most med schools require "permanent resident" status, not "pending permanent resident". Got it?

You are welcome to get billed $150 an hour for consultation with an immigration attorney.

It's good you have the funds to pay for tuition. Just focus on the schools that recruit international student and save you the headache. Or else give it a year and see how the priority date moves and in the meanwhile improve your MCAT.

thanks for clearing that up nikon, but what redrok said about changing status, if I get accepted and get an I-20, would I have to forfeit my current change of status to go to school (get F1 visa)?

 

[nikon]

You don't need an F1 visa (I-20) to go to school while you are I-485 pending, because you can legally stay in the states till a decision is made regarding your adjustment of status (I-485; when your priority date becomes current). You won't forfeit your change of status by going to school. But getting an F1 visa is a different story. Just tell the school you do NOT need the F1 visa.

Good luck with your application.

thanks for clearing that up nikon, but what redrok said about changing status, if I get accepted and get an I-20, would I have to forfeit my current change of status to go to school (get F1 visa)?

 

[redrok]

I think that you have been given some good advice from nikon who seems to be involved with how the international student thing works.

So now that you have the money thing figured out, you need to make a list of the schools that will allow you to attend with your particular immigration status. This will be difficult as this will limit your options severely.

After that, I really suggest you get a hold of a few MCAT practice exams (actual past exams) and take them - this is the link to the MCAT company exams I used (you get practice exam #3 for free just for making an account to register for the MCAT, which you have already done and should have access to):

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/preparing/orderingpracticetests.htm

You should take more than one as they do vary from test to test. I took about 6 of them (I got 5 of them for free as part of a thing I did at my Uni along with exam #3) and even with the several months of prep I did, I still scored in the range of my different practice exams. I did return to each exam to see what I missed to study harder on those parts and I feel that helped me a lot.

I'm not saying that is is impossible to jump from 22 to 27, but I am saying you may want to really see how you will do before expecting to go up 5 points. Someone else may want to tell you their experience as well, but this is what I found.

 

[bautile]

Thank you for the tips redrok and thanks nikon for the immigration help. much appreciated 🙂

but regarding my mental approach to the mcat , I realize that my phrasing might have made it seem that I am way too confident in my ability. I am definitely not going to "go easy" on this next session of mcat prep and am definitely going to try to take as many, if not all, of the aamc practice exams. That being said, I have confidence in my abilities that I will score significantly better. How much better? I guess i'll have to resurrect this thread come february and let u guys know 😛