Looking for encouragement

[docindev]

Hi Everyone,

So, here is my story...currently have a 3.0 gpa at the end of 3rd year (right now we are in middle of spring quarter). Going to take MCAT this summer. GPA is obviously too low to even consider applying this june...I screwed up big my second year, gpa was 3.4 at end of first year. During my 3rd year, I got hit by a chronic disease (urticaria), which I still have, and it has made my life miserable and has had a major impact on my grades. I am not the type to make excuses, I admit I did not work hard my second year of undergrad, but worked very hard my 3rd year but got 3.0's in both fall and winter. Around test time, my condition would flare up and caused a lot of discomfort.

Hopefully I can get 3.5+ gpa for spring quarter and finish strong. I plan on studying damn hard for the MCAT's this summer. I truly believe that if I put my mind to it, I can achieve something. I hope to get 35+ on MCAT. I plan on applying to med schools after I graduate next year. Hopefully, I can pull gpa up to maybe a 3.3-3.4 by then at most. So my question for you guys is, what should I do in year off...SMP or a regular MS program? Also, what should I do
if I still don't get in when I apply next June (2011)? That would mean 2 years off. If I tell med schools that I am going to get a master's during year off, does that even count for anything...meaning can they accept me for my current stats and then see how I did in my master's program? Lastly, I realize that there are many question marks and changing variables that still need to be answered such as my mcat and overall gpa after I graduate, but I will appreciate it if you guys can give me advice based on the 3.0 gpa and presumably a 30+mcat score. Thank you very much.

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[Catalystik]

Here are some possible pathways to becoming a physician:

1) Plan to apply to DO med schools. Repeat the classes where you did the worst and use AACOMAS policy that includes only the most recent retake when calculating the application GPA. If you have some Ds and Fs, this is the fastest way to fix your low GPA if you can get As the second time (note: the repeated class must have the same number or greater in credit hours). Get straight As in the rest of your prerequisites/coureswork due to your new work ethic. Get a good MCAT score to prove you understood the material. Shadow a DO and get a letter of recommendation. Educate yourself on this option in SDN's PreMed Osteopathic Forum.

2) With a GPA > 3.0, you would also qualify for a lot of SMPs (Special Masters Program). This is a 1-2 year paid audition/expensive redemption option which can overrride a low uGPA. You'd need an MCAT 28-30+ depending on the program requirements. If you perform well in the SMP, where you compete with first year med students at their linked med school and get a high GPA, typically 3.5 or better, you have a chance of an acceptance at an MD med school. This outcome is not guaranteed, though, but DO schools still remain an option. Read more on this option in the Postbaccalaureate Programs Forum of SDN. A traditional hard-science masters degree would not give the same benefit at most med schools.

3) Take two more years of full-time coursework, getting straight As. This would raise your GPA to 3.4. With an MCAT score of 33+, you might get into an allopathic med school due to the steep upward trend and excellent MCAT.

All these options assume optimal ECs and strong LORs, good PS and excellent interview skills.

 

[docindev]

Thank you very much for replying Catalystik. I really appreciate it. Right now I am at an overall GPA of 3.1 after getting a 3.6GPA this past spring quarter.
I have one more year and I will try to keep getting a higher gpa, so i can end my undergraduate years with somewhat of an upward trend. Hopefully I can get all 4.0s and end up with 3.3-3.4 overall at the end of spring quarter next year. Also, regarding your options, I am leaning most toward choice 3 and so my question to you is how do I go about taking more coursework at my current institution if I am forced to graduate at the end of my 4th year.

I really don't want to go through the extension, primarily because I have heard that it is really expensive and inconvenient. Do you think if at the end of my 4th year, if I have a 3.4 with a 35+ MCAT and decent experience volunteering/shadowing, etc, that it is worth applying to medical schools then?

I have thoroughly done my research on MD vs DO, and to be honest, I prefer allopathic medicine over osteopathic. So applying DO is out of the question. Also, it seems that SMP is an expensive risk because even after doing coursework much harder than what one faces in undergrad, admission is still not guaranteed. It is, like you and my counselors said, a chance. Lastly, there are many reasons for the way I performed thus far, and although I myself am not a fan of excuses and am certain that adcoms aren't either, certain situations and events impacted me at critical times such as finals weeks, midterm weeks, especially my 2nd and 3rd years, and there was an obvious effect on me and my studying during those times, and so I was wondering if an explanation can be placed somewhere to clarify this. I have heard that it is usually a bad idea to place such things in personal statements, although I cannot of any other place in AMCAS to put this.

Thank you so much, I will appreciate any and all input you or anybody else have. Thanks again.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

SMP as you aren't competitive for DO or MD and while DO offers a quicker route to redemption you don't want it. Yes with 3.0 and even a 35 you'll have trouble getting in as gpa weights a lot so you'll need to make it up through a SMP or master program for MD. For DO with a 3.0 and 35 you'll still need to retake a few classes as the gpa again weights a lot.


Allopathic and Osteopathic medicine are the same thing with the exception of OMM of which you can choose to use or not use.

 

[Catalystik]

1) how do I go about taking more coursework at my current institution if I am forced to graduate at the end of my 4th year.

2) Do you think if at the end of my 4th year, if I have a 3.4 with a 35+ MCAT and decent experience volunteering/shadowing, etc, that it is worth applying to medical schools then?

3) I was wondering if an explanation can be placed somewhere to clarify this. I have heard that it is usually a bad idea to place such things in personal statements, although I cannot of any other place in AMCAS to put this.

1) You could check into declaring another major or a minor; perhaps this would allow you to stay in your current college longer. Otherwise, attending another school elsewhere could be considered, besides the extension program.

2) Those applying with a 3.4/35 in the past 3 years had a 68.3% chance of an acceptance per AMCAS stats. I think that would be worth applying for.

3) Many Secondaries have an essay about a challenge overcome, a stress you managed, or discuss any blips in your academic road. That would be the proper place for your explanation.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Hi Everyone,

So, here is my story...currently have a 3.0 gpa at the end of 3rd year (right now we are in middle of spring quarter). Going to take MCAT this summer. GPA is obviously too low to even consider applying this june...I screwed up big my second year, gpa was 3.4 at end of first year. During my 3rd year, I got hit by a chronic disease (urticaria), which I still have, and it has made my life miserable and has had a major impact on my grades. I am not the type to make excuses, I admit I did not work hard my second year of undergrad, but worked very hard my 3rd year but got 3.0's in both fall and winter. Around test time, my condition would flare up and caused a lot of discomfort.

Hopefully I can get 3.5+ gpa for spring quarter and finish strong. I plan on studying damn hard for the MCAT's this summer. I truly believe that if I put my mind to it, I can achieve something. I hope to get 35+ on MCAT. I plan on applying to med schools after I graduate next year. Hopefully, I can pull gpa up to maybe a 3.3-3.4 by then at most. So my question for you guys is, what should I do in year off...SMP or a regular MS program? Also, what should I do
if I still don't get in when I apply next June (2011)? That would mean 2 years off. If I tell med schools that I am going to get a master's during year off, does that even count for anything...meaning can they accept me for my current stats and then see how I did in my master's program? Lastly, I realize that there are many question marks and changing variables that still need to be answered such as my mcat and overall gpa after I graduate, but I will appreciate it if you guys can give me advice based on the 3.0 gpa and presumably a 30+mcat score. Thank you very much.

You had hives and it affected your grades for a year?

Anyway, there are a lot of factors that affect your competitiveness - what state are you from? What are your extracurriculars like?

SMP is a good option if you find a program that suits you. There are programs that feed directly into a certain med school, there are programs aimed at improvement MCAT, programs aimed at improving prereq grades, programs aimed at underserved students...if one fits you I think they are a valid option.

MS is a good option as well - at least no matter what you end up with a degree out of it.

How competitive you are given each of these things is very dependent on where you're from and where you want to go. But you should be aiming for 4.0 semesters from here on out.

I think its a little naive to assume you can get a 35+ on the MCAT. Its a very difficult test and not only is there 4 years of knowledge packed in but there is a good amount of "test taking" skill that can't really be taught. If you ultimately ended up with a 3.0/30 you would be unlikely to be accepted to a MD school (but that depends on where you're from and your ECs - if you're interesting and applying in the mid west or URM then you would have a shot.)

Extracurriculars are going to matter a lot for you. With the grades you have people are going to want to know what you were doing with your free time. Employment, community service, clinical experience etc. will all help you. If you have very weak ECs then you'll be even worse off.

I think you really need to reconsider going to a DO school. You're competitive enough for many DO schools (assuming decent ECs) and the "stigma" associated with osteopathic is pretty much all in the heads of premeds. Doctors and patients really don't care. Many of my residents are DOs and I only realize it when I happen to see it on their badge. They match into MD residencies in medicine, FM, PM&R, EM, surgery, and other specialties and no one knows that they're not MDs.

Good luck.

 

[docindev]

Thanks for your tips everyone. In response to "alwaysangel", hives was just the beginning and it led to many other complications and related illnesses. I did not wish to fully detail my medical history in public so this is why I only mentioned hives. And to be honest, hives alone is very, very annoying. If you haven't had it or if you have had it but for only a short period, then you have no idea. The key connection that I think you were missing before you made that comment suggesting hives being something easily dismissible and not serious was that since it was chronic, the cause was and is unknown. Stress only provoked it made it worse to the point where it was unbearable. Think about swelling and rash all over you body and I mean literally head to toe, swelling that hurts burns, stings, itches nearly every single day for months. It makes your feet swell to the point that they don't fit in your shoe, or if they do, then the angioedema hurts so bad that you can't walk. Then tell me how you can put your mind to studying. And yes, I tried EVERY allergy and antihistamine out there. No combination worked until the dose had to be so high that I was basically asleep for long periods of the day. So please before you make judgments like that, please do your reading. Yes, while it is true that for most people afflicted, hives is very short term and goes away in hours; for the extreme cases, and I mean extreme, this is what happens. Read on this online and you will find out really how extreme something like hives can get. Oh, and if what I said above was not enough, try 10+ trips to the emergency within a span of a few months, to receive big shots of benadryl in your rear end. Not to mention all the separate times I had to get shots of adrenaline to keep my throat from closing. While I know that this isn't the scariest and most harmful disease out there, it is surely something that, if you're a pre-med student, will affect your concentration, your state of mind (drowsy all the time b/c of meds), and this is why I said it made it tough for me to study during exam weeks. I don't mean to be offensive, but in the future please try to be respectful of others' feelings before you mock them (always angel) I hope you can understand this before you make a senseless and uneducated judgment about someone else again. I am not writing this for sympathy but to explain that I am not making this up and that my life was actually affected by this.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Thanks for your tips everyone. In response to "alwaysangel", hives was just the beginning and it led to many other complications and related illnesses. I did not wish to fully detail my medical history in public so this is why I only mentioned hives. And to be honest, hives alone is very, very annoying. If you haven't had it or if you have had it but for only a short period, then you have no idea. The key connection that I think you were missing before you made that comment suggesting hives being something easily dismissible and not serious was that since it was chronic, the cause was and is unknown. Stress only provoked it made it worse to the point where it was unbearable. Think about swelling and rash all over you body and I mean literally head to toe, swelling that hurts burns, stings, itches nearly every single day for months. It makes your feet swell to the point that they don't fit in your shoe, or if they do, then the angioedema hurts so bad that you can't walk. Then tell me how you can put your mind to studying. And yes, I tried EVERY allergy and antihistamine out there. No combination worked until the dose had to be so high that I was basically asleep for long periods of the day. So please before you make judgments like that, please do your reading. Yes, while it is true that for most people afflicted, hives is very short term and goes away in hours; for the extreme cases, and I mean extreme, this is what happens. Read on this online and you will find out really how extreme something like hives can get. Oh, and if what I said above was not enough, try 10+ trips to the emergency within a span of a few months, to receive big shots of benadryl in your rear end. Not to mention all the separate times I had to get shots of adrenaline to keep my throat from closing. While I know that this isn't the scariest and most harmful disease out there, it is surely something that, if you're a pre-med student, will affect your concentration, your state of mind (drowsy all the time b/c of meds), and this is why I said it made it tough for me to study during exam weeks. I don't mean to be offensive, but in the future please try to be respectful of others' feelings before you mock them (always angel) I hope you can understand this before you make a senseless and uneducated judgment about someone else again. I am not writing this for sympathy but to explain that I am not making this up and that my life was actually affected by this.

I wasn't mocking you and I wasn't judging you, it was a viable question about something you mentioned affected your grades - and one you are going to get from the admissions committees during interviews if you choose to mention a severe illness that affected your concentration.

So you need to make a decision if you are going to mention it or not and if you do you need to be ready and able to explain it fully.

Also, I would check with your doctor and see if urticaria is truly you're only diagnosis, it just sounds off. You say I should "read how bad urticaria can be." But I think you need to talk to your doctor about your actual diagnosis and be sure you know what to call it. In general "urticaria" is JUST the rash, if you had any swelling or if your throat was closing then it wasn't urticaria - at that point its angioedema or anaphylaxis or a number of other diagnoses which would sound far less odd. Again, I'm not mocking you - I was trying to understand: someone saying their urticaria affected them for a year just sounds weird to anyone in medicine as the more severe diagnoses are usually called other things, I have a feeling your diagnosis is technically something else. You should probably find out what.

And if your doctor says it was just "urticaria" - keep in mind you're going to be talking to a bunch of doctors and urticaria without a cause that lasted a year (and then apparently went away?) where they didn't try any antidepressants (hives a/w stress is not uncommon - there are treatments) and where the medication continued to make you feel drowsy (consistent use of anti-histamines causes the drowsy side effect to wear off in a week or two) is just VERY suspect sounding to a doctor.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm not mocking you, and I'm not saying it didn't affect you - but IF you are goign to at all mention that an illness affected your grades - I'm just preparing you for what you're goign to run into when you're interviewed by a bunch of doctors on an admissions committee - you better have your explanation very very straight.

 

[docindev]

I really appreciate your concern and trust me, I have been to enough doctors to get this thing checked up. Tests have revealed nothing, so for me to say the cause is unknown is completely legitimate. I don't see why you would, again without knowing any details, even think of doubting my "story" and tell me to keep it straight. I am not lying here, let me make that clear to you. My objective at posting on SDN was to get advice regarding the options I have for the future because of how this illness affected my grades. I did not post here to ask what questions the interviewers would ask regarding my illness and how I should manipulate a straightforward story for you or them to buy. I did not want to make my illness the central point of discussion, but for some reason people these days just don't seem to have any affection for one another and feel the urge to question them.

Lastly, from experience I have learned that most doctors usually refrain from questioning another doctor's plan for treatment so I don't think any of these doctors will suspect a hole in my story because this isn't a made-up story (which is what you think). It is the truth and it wasn't my decision to take those meds, it was the doctor's. I am sure that an allergy specialist will know the course of treatment better than a medical student or a doctor who is interviewing me but doesn't know much about allergies. I assume most physician interviewers are more concerned with academia and research than they are with primary care because they are working at a university. I don't think primary care physicians will be available to hold interviews but please correct me if I'm wrong.