Looking for suggestions

[countryboy87]

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Hello everyone

I come from quite a scattered background and I'm sure I would be considered a non-traditional student by any means. I am hoping to present a little of my background and ask for recomendations, suggestions, criticisms; anything you believe to be helpful in guiding me in the right direction.

I attended a very rural, country high school with a graduating class of 19 students. The school was/is terrible; my girlfriend just pointed out to me that we are ranked 712 out of approximately 750 schools in the state. Needless to say I had a terrible eduction growing up.
*Side note, my father nor mother have a college education; don't know if that means anything.

I was accepted to Illinois State University and attended there for 5 years (due to uncertainty in choosing a major). I graduated with a degree in Sociology; I believe my cumulative was around 3.5 and my major was around 3.7.

I went to work in a maximum security prison 3 months after graduating; I hated every single day of it. In a nutshell, I ended up in the ER one day and "had an epiphany"; this is where I want to be. I began the steps necessary to place myself into medical school. While working full time, I took 2 courses at a community college in chemistry and biology. I was required to complete these courses before I could apply to the postbaccalaureate program in the Biology department at Illinois State. I finished both courses with "A" and transferred the 4.0 avg to Illinois State where I was accepted into their Biology program. I finally left the prison 1 week shy of 3 years of employment.

By the time May comes around, I will have completed my first year of pre-med requisite courses. The first semester I took Gen Chem 1 and Gen Physics 1, both with labs and and received a 4.0 that semester as well. I'll note that I was also working part time for my father that runs a farming operation. This semester I will have competed Gen Chem 2, Gen Physics 2, and Gen Bio 2. I am on route to receiving "A" in both physics and chemistry and most likely a B in Biology. Therefore, I will have completed Gen Physics 1 & 2, Gen Chem 1 & 2 and Gen Bio 1 & 2 by May. This will place my science grades as follows:

Intro to Chem: A @ comm. college
Biology 1: A @ comm. college
Biology 2: B @ state university
Chem 1: A @ state university
Chem 2: A @ state university
Physics 1: A @ state university
Physics 2: A @ state university

That leaves me with the next year to finish Organic 1 & 2. This fall I will take Organic 1 and will be taking an independent study with my Sociology professor. We will construct a sociologically based research project on doctor-patient relationships. I know some may giggle at social research, but apparently it is receiving its own due respect when examining the changing MCAT exam and reviewing the new required/suggested sociology courses posted by medical schools. In addition to that, I will be reviewing for the MCAT. I plan to take it in December 14 or January 15. My tutor is a college professor with a Ph. D. in organic chemistry, so with her assistance and my hard work, I hope for Organic 1/2 to go well; in addition, she will be assisting me in studying for the MCAT.

I just contacted a local hospital about joining their volunteer program where I plan to help 3-4 hours a week; it appears this is all they allow due to the large number of volunteers. I also plan to take on new employment working as a medical scribe in a hospital starting spring semester of next year. It will be a full time position since the only other course I will need to complete is Organic 2.

I am currently trying to find physicians to shadow, but am having a difficult time due to the hospitals strict adherence to HIPPA law regulations.

So, with that in mind, what do you think? What else should I do, what shouldn't I have done, do I stand a chance at getting into school, do i present as competitive? I don't plan on attending a top 20 school; I would simply be happy just being accepted into a respectable program. One thing I'm worried about is the lack of "full load" while taking my courses. Since it took so long to figure out what I wanted my major to be first go round, I have quite a few semesters that were 12 hours. Also, some people tend to laugh at the difficulty of my major; I found it interesting and complex, but perhaps thats just me. In addition, my last semester was 9 hours and this semester is 13 hours. I am working for my father on the farm while taking these courses, but perhaps they find no value in that. In addition, I don't have many extra-curricular activities. I will have a descent number of volunteer hours at the hospital and will have worked approx. 6 months full time as a scribe by the time I apply, but thats about all, aside from my social research project I plan on completing.

Sorry for taking so long, I've really wanted to get this off my chest and acquire advice from this great online community.

Thank you

 

[Catalystik]

Hello everyone

I come from quite a scattered background and I'm sure I would be considered a non-traditional student by any means. I am hoping to present a little of my background and ask for recomendations, suggestions, criticisms; anything you believe to be helpful in guiding me in the right direction.

I attended a very rural, country high school with a graduating class of 19 students. The school was/is terrible; my girlfriend just pointed out to me that we are ranked 712 out of approximately 750 schools in the state. Needless to say I had a terrible eduction growing up.
*Side note, my father nor mother have a college education; don't know if that means anything.

I was accepted to Illinois State University and attended there for 5 years (due to uncertainty in choosing a major). I graduated with a degree in Sociology; I believe my cumulative was around 3.5 and my major was around 3.7.

I went to work in a maximum security prison 3 months after graduating; I hated every single day of it. In a nutshell, I ended up in the ER one day and "had an epiphany"; this is where I want to be. I began the steps necessary to place myself into medical school. While working full time, I took 2 courses at a community college in chemistry and biology. I was required to complete these courses before I could apply to the postbaccalaureate program in the Biology department at Illinois State. I finished both courses with "A" and transferred the 4.0 avg to Illinois State where I was accepted into their Biology program. I finally left the prison 1 week shy of 3 years of employment.

By the time May comes around, I will have completed my first year of pre-med requisite courses. The first semester I took Gen Chem 1 and Gen Physics 1, both with labs and and received a 4.0 that semester as well. I'll note that I was also working part time for my father that runs a farming operation. This semester I will have competed Gen Chem 2, Gen Physics 2, and Gen Bio 2. I am on route to receiving "A" in both physics and chemistry and most likely a B in Biology. Therefore, I will have completed Gen Physics 1 & 2, Gen Chem 1 & 2 and Gen Bio 1 & 2 by May. This will place my science grades as follows:

Intro to Chem: A @ comm. college
Biology 1: A @ comm. college
Biology 2: B @ state university
Chem 1: A @ state university
Chem 2: A @ state university
Physics 1: A @ state university
Physics 2: A @ state university

That leaves me with the next year to finish Organic 1 & 2. This fall I will take Organic 1 and will be taking an independent study with my Sociology professor. We will construct a sociologically based research project on doctor-patient relationships. I know some may giggle at social research, but apparently it is receiving its own due respect when examining the changing MCAT exam and reviewing the new required/suggested sociology courses posted by medical schools. In addition to that, I will be reviewing for the MCAT. I plan to take it in December 14 or January 15. My tutor is a college professor with a Ph. D. in organic chemistry, so with her assistance and my hard work, I hope for Organic 1/2 to go well; in addition, she will be assisting me in studying for the MCAT.

I just contacted a local hospital about joining their volunteer program where I plan to help 3-4 hours a week; it appears this is all they allow due to the large number of volunteers. I also plan to take on new employment working as a medical scribe in a hospital starting spring semester of next year. It will be a full time position since the only other course I will need to complete is Organic 2.

I am currently trying to find physicians to shadow, but am having a difficult time due to the hospitals strict adherence to HIPPA law regulations.

So, with that in mind, what do you think? What else should I do, what shouldn't I have done, do I stand a chance at getting into school, do i present as competitive? I don't plan on attending a top 20 school; I would simply be happy just being accepted into a respectable program. One thing I'm worried about is the lack of "full load" while taking my courses. Since it took so long to figure out what I wanted my major to be first go round, I have quite a few semesters that were 12 hours. Also, some people tend to laugh at the difficulty of my major; I found it interesting and complex, but perhaps thats just me. In addition, my last semester was 9 hours and this semester is 13 hours. I am working for my father on the farm while taking these courses, but perhaps they find no value in that. In addition, I don't have many extra-curricular activities. I will have a descent number of volunteer hours at the hospital and will have worked approx. 6 months full time as a scribe by the time I apply, but thats about all, aside from my social research project I plan on completing.

Sorry for taking so long, I've really wanted to get this off my chest and acquire advice from this great online community.

Thank you

You are on target to be a competitive applicant. You might figure out your new cGPA including CC, ISU, and postbac.

Scribing for physicians is considered to include shadowing, as you are in the physician's presence while they see patients and can observe their interactions. You can use your contacts in the ER to meet other docs and possibly get a chance to follow someone in their private office to get a view of longetudinal care.

Adcomms will look at your entire load: not just academic, but work and activities as well, so don't worry about attending school part time.

 

[LizzyM]

All of those jobs including prison & the farm are important; you bring diversity of experinece to your med school class. Be sure to give each full-time job a slot on your application. Also, you may choose to self-identify as "disadvantaged" due to the poor school system you attended. If your area had a shortage of primary care providers or heath care providers in general you can also answer in the affirmative to the question about being from an underserved area.

 

[countryboy87]

Thank you very much. I appreciate the feedback and it feels very good to know that I'm heading in the right direction. I had a discussion with my girlfriend's family last night and discovered they are good friends with a family of doctors that practically own their own rural hospital; we will try to coordinate shadow activities with them. They're a few brothers; one is primary care, one is a surgeon and I believe one may be a cardiologist. There are two others but I'm not sure of their field. They also have connections to an endocrinologist that she use to visit. Perhaps these will present as possible opportunities.

As to the area I grew up in, our town has an approx. population of 500, the high school we went to is in a town of 300. Neither town has a grocery store, gas station; well, you get the point. About twenty minutes away is a small medical center and one hospital that has the reputation of being so bad that just about anyone you ask is willing to make the 45 minute drive in the opposite direction to receive trustworthy care; this is the mind frame for emergency situations!

I'm a little nervous about the MCAT. It seems that people on these boards say if you fail to achieve a score of 30+ just forget about it. I can see why after looking at the average statistics of the incoming classes to each medical school. It appears that even the "no so great" schools have a median MCAT score of 30. With that said, I have the summer months coming up and then the fall semester to prepare. I have completed the Bio, Gen Chem, and Physics portions of the required classes, but that leaves organic 1/2. I will be working to complete Organic 1 this coming fall semester while completing my social research project. So this is my breakdown:

Summer: Part time work while studying sections of Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Verbal Reasoning
Fall: Take Organic 1/other classes while continuing to prepare for MCAT. My tutor will prepare me for the Organic 2 portions during the fall semester.
January: Take MCAT

I'm basically praying for a 30; will this be sufficient?

 

[Laureatebarrel]

Why dont you take organic 1 in summer? Doing both at fall seems very rushed it seems.

 

[countryboy87]

I thought about it, I just have a lot planned this summer. Unfortunately it will not work due to prior obligations. Another thing is I'm going to use this summer to prep for all other parts of the MCAT. The only classes I'll be taking are Organic 1 and a Independent research project, so I hope to have enough time to work on those two classes while studying for the MCAT. She preps students for the MCAT and she finds the exam mainly covers material from Orgo 1. This way I will complete Orgo 1 and she is going to instruct me on the mechanisms that are tested on Orgo 2 material.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm basically praying for a 30; will this be sufficient?

Being competitive depends on cGPA, BCPM GPA, and MCAT score, ideally with balanced subscores, as well as ECs. I've seen folks get into both your state schools with a lower MCAT than a 30, but they all had a much higher GPA than 3.5. They also had terrific ECs.

Be sure to read about UIllinois' requirements. Do you plan to have some upper-level Bio? Biochem (which some schools, including UIC allow to substitute for OChem II)?

the exam mainly covers material from Orgo 1

True.

 

[countryboy87]

So, it appears i have made an unfortunate discovery. I thought science gpa was calculated from the pre-required med school classes of
Bio 1/2
Phy 1/2
Chem 1/2
Organic 1/2

It appears now that it counts any biology/physics/chemicstry/math course you ever took as an undergrad?
If thats the case I'm screwed. I took some intro bio and math classes back in freshman/sophomore year and all the grades are B's.
Will those be counted when calculating my science gpa?

For example, my freshman year and first semester sophomore year I had the following courses:

college algebra B
finite math B
bio 101 B
calculus B
geology B

If these are counted I'm done, my science gpa will be trashed. I was pissed when I was calculating it before with one B and the rest A's placing me at 3.88, if these get counted from my fresh/soph year I'll be under a 3.5 and I might as well forget it.

 

[Catalystik]

So, it appears i have made an unfortunate discovery. I though science gpa was calculated from the pre-required med school classes of
Bio 1/2
Phy 1/2
Chem 1/2
Organic 1/2

It appears now that it counts any biology/physics/chemicstry/math course you ever took as an undergrad?
If thats the case I'm screwed. I took some intro bio and math classes back in freshman/sophomore year and all the grades are B's.
Will those be counted when calculating my science gpa?

Yes, they will all be counted. After calculating it out, let us know where you stand. You might throw in the As you'll potentially earn in Ochem.

 

[theseeker4]

So, it appears i have made an unfortunate discovery. I thought science gpa was calculated from the pre-required med school classes of
Bio 1/2
Phy 1/2
Chem 1/2
Organic 1/2

It appears now that it counts any biology/physics/chemicstry/math course you ever took as an undergrad?
If thats the case I'm screwed. I took some intro bio and math classes back in freshman/sophomore year and all the grades are B's.
Will those be counted when calculating my science gpa?

For example, my freshman year and first semester sophomore year I had the following courses:

college algebra B
finite math B
bio 101 B
calculus B
geology B

If these are counted I'm done, my science gpa will be trashed. I was pissed when I was calculating it before with one B and the rest A's placing me at 3.88, if these get counted from my fresh/soph year I'll be under a 3.5 and I might as well forget it.

If this is something you truly want to do, there is no need to forget it. People have come back from sub-3.0 GPAs, so if you want it bad enough to put up with 4 years of med school and 3 +++ of residency training, an extra year of GPA-repair shouldn't be a deal-breaker for you.....

 

[countryboy87]

It appears that geology does not count under BCPM, with that in mind I was left with these prior classes taken as freshman/first semester sophomore

College Algebra B
Finite Math B
Biology B
Applied Calc B
Statistics A

If I account for these, and add in expected grades for finished pre-reqs, that gives the following:
BCPM cumulative: 3.67
Major cumulative: 3.77
Undergrad cumulative: 3.64

I think its crap that they are going to make an assessment of my qualifications by accounting for grades that I received 9 years ago. As I said, I came from a crap school with a terrible education, used to operating in a class size no larger than 12-19 students at a time, to attending a state university, young and dumb with no idea of what I was doing or why I was there in classes of 200+ students. I have made great changes since then, the biggest one being my willingness to leave a job that paid 60k+, go back to living off nothing and achieving nearly a 4.0 while finishing pre-req classes.

I sincerely hope that admission commities will take these figures into account. I constantly hear people on this board say that applications get tossed right away if the cGPA, bcpmGPA and MCAT score aren't in their target range.

 

[Mr Roboto]

Dude don't sweat it. Some schools will absolutely screen you out for your GPA. Others will look and see "Oh wait, he did post-bach work? And killed it? Hell yeah!" and you'll have a shot. If you keep on the track that you're going, you'll get in.

Focus on doing well on the MCAT. You're heading in the right direction for sure.

 

[countryboy87]

Dude don't sweat it. Some schools will absolutely screen you out for your GPA. Others will look and see "Oh wait, he did post-bach work? And killed it? Hell yeah!" and you'll have a shot. If you keep on the track that you're going, you'll get in.

Focus on doing well on the MCAT. You're heading in the right direction for sure.

Thank you very much, I've been really down today with this whole mess, working my ass off to get nearly 4.0 post-bacc and then finding out that classes 9 years old will jack my gpa up.

 

[ærospallo]

Head over to the non-trad forum; there are plenty of people over there that started with much lower GPAs than yours. It can be done.

 

[Catalystik]

It appears that geology does not count under BCPM, with that in mind I was left with these prior classes taken as freshman/first semester sophomore

College Algebra B
Finite Math B
Biology B
Applied Calc B
Statistics A

If I account for these, and add in expected grades for finished pre-reqs, that gives the following:
BCPM cumulative: 3.67
Major cumulative: 3.77
Undergrad cumulative: 3.64

I think its crap that they are going to make an assessment of my qualifications by accounting for grades that I received 9 years ago. As I said, I came from a crap school with a terrible education, used to operating in a class size no larger than 12-19 students at a time, to attending a state university, young and dumb with no idea of what I was doing or why I was there in classes of 200+ students. I have made great changes since then, the biggest one being my willingness to leave a job that paid 60k+, go back to living off nothing and achieving nearly a 4.0 while finishing pre-req classes.

I sincerely hope that admission commities will take these figures into account. I constantly hear people on this board say that applications get tossed right away if the cGPA, bcpm GPA and MCAT score aren't in their target range.

The average stats for all med school acceptees in 2013 were cGPA 3.69, BCPM 3.63, and MCAT 31, meaning half of those who matriculate had stats below that. And an upward grade trend does count in your favor (postbac grades are on their own line and easy to appreciate), as does nontraditional status, and rural location. So don't stress out as you're in fine shape. I do urge you to consider some upper-level Bio so as to qualify for consideration at your (relatively cheaper) state school, maybe Genetics, Cell Bio, or Physiology.

 

[candbgirl]

I'm assuming you are from Illinois. If so look at SIU school of medicine. It might be a really good fit for you. Also , depending on your MCAT, consider DO programs. I am really interested in following you so please keep posting and let us know how this plays out.

 

[kreme]

Your personal statement would run circles around mine.

 

[countryboy87]

Thank you everyone for your wise suggestions and encouragement; I really do appreciate it.
Another question for all of you. In your opinion, would I be better off having a social research project based on doctor-patient interaction or take an A&P course. I can see how the A&P course may be beneficial for MCAT prep or perhaps boosting my bcpm gpa, but I also feel that a social based research project focusing on doctor patient interaction may be an item that sets me apart from the crowd. Suggestions?

 

[Catalystik]

IMO, the research project will benefit your general application appeal more. Could you take the class next spring?

 

[DRteacher]

You sound like you're definitely on the right track to acceptance! Make sure to mention your numerous obligations in your personal statement and how your desire to become a doctor motivated you to work hard and do well despite being unable to have a full course load each semester. I think admissions committees will definitely look at everything you've had to handle and will be impressed with your resilience and motivation. Best wishes!

 

[countryboy87]

I could take an additional course in the spring semester. Only problem is I'll be working full time as a scribe and taking Organic II. I'm afraid if I add A&P or BioChem to that schedule some of my work will fall short of 4.0 status. I thought about maybe taking it this fall, but between starting fresh in Organic and taking on the research project along with setting aside hefty prep time for MCAT material, I'm afraid to throw anything extra in. I know I should get used to a hectic schedule as this will be commonplace in med school, I just don't want to take any steps that may hinder my acceptance by spreading myself too thin. I'm setting high hopes of doing well on the MCAT, with a goal of 35 and the reality of being more than happy with a 30.

 

[Catalystik]

You could perhaps take the upper-level Bio after you apply, but list it on the AMCAS application as a future course, then.