looks like 3rd time will have to be the charm

[Phenol312]

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So yeah...i was complete by the end of august here i am in December with 3 rejections and 2 holds of death. Now i find out my personal statement was garbage and my stats and ec's are terrible...i hate my pre-health adviser right now for telling me "o yeah you'll have no problems getting interviews"

MDapps is on the left...anyone care to offer me some critique? For instance schools where i would stand a chance of getting accepted if i improve my EC's?

... i like gathering opinions. Feel free to be brutally honest.

the '09 cycle will be me 3rd time submitting to AMCAS and second time submitting secondaries. If i dont get in next year looks like ill be taking the MCAT again...i wish they still offered the written ones. I feel leery about taking the CBT.

 

[drizzt3117]

I hope you're not upset at my feedback, but I figured it was better to tell you what I thought so you could improve your chances going forward rather than sugarcoating it and telling you that you'll likely get in this cycle.

Good luck!

 

[Phenol312]

I hope you're not upset at my feedback, but I figured it was better to tell you what I thought so you could improve your chances going forward rather than sugarcoating it and telling you that you'll likely get in this cycle.

Good luck!

I'm more disheartened about the rejection letter that i got from albany today than anything...i kinda knew it was coming but it affects me nonetheless.

I respect you a lot for giving it to me straight. Its a quality thats getting rarer and rarer these days it seems. By the way...with what we discussed should i expect anything from the DO schools?

I know better than to get upset over something presenting me with the reality of the situation...the only thing i can do know is work on the areas we discussed and keep hammering away. If it takes me til im collecting social security ill still be applying to amcas every year. 😎

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm more disheartened about the rejection letter that i got from albany today than anything...i kinda knew it was coming but it affects me nonetheless.

BTW, don't let rejections get you down... otherwise this is going to be a tough couple years. I have five of them so far this cycle and they've bounced off like rain on a tin roof. Unless you're a stellar applicant expect to be rejected at 80-90% of the schools you apply to at the very least. If you apply to 30 schools that's 24-27 rejections, so if you panic over a few then like I said, it's going to be a long wait until July/August.

I respect you a lot for giving it to me straight. Its a quality thats getting rarer and rarer these days it seems. By the way...with what we discussed should i expect anything from the DO schools?

I know better than to get upset over something presenting me with the reality of the situation...the only thing i can do know is work on the areas we discussed and keep hammering away. If it takes me til im collecting social security ill still be applying to amcas every year. 😎

I think you will be a bit more competitive at the DO schools statwise but clinical experience is still important as well, and to a lesser degree it seems (although I have 0 experience with DO applications) a sincere interest in osteopathy. You'd do better asking this question in the pre-DO forum.

 

[Phenol312]

BTW, don't let rejections get you down... otherwise this is going to be a tough couple years. I have five of them so far this cycle and they've bounced off like rain on a tin roof. Unless you're a stellar applicant expect to be rejected at 80-90% of the schools you apply to at the very least. If you apply to 30 schools that's 24-27 rejections, so if you panic over a few then like I said, it's going to be a long wait until July/August.



I think you will be a bit more competitive at the DO schools statwise but clinical experience is still important as well, and to a lesser degree it seems (although I have 0 experience with DO applications) a sincere interest in osteopathy. You'd do better asking this question in the pre-DO forum.

thanks again...it was just bad timing for the letter to come. In the past week or so i lost my job, the engine in my car blew, and there's some personal stuff that's just making my life a bit hellish at the moment. but hey...defecation happens.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I think clinical experience is much more important for DO applications than MD. That's why almost every DO school requires a letter from a physician (some require DO, others require MD or DO), and they want the letter to verify that you have patient contact during your clinical experience.

But yeah, hit up the DO schools. They are a little less stats-hungry. The only thing is that they don't seem to care much about the MCAT. Some of them do. Try PCOM and Nova for sure. Nova is big on the non-science GPA.

 

[smq123]

So yeah...i was complete by the end of august here i am in December with 3 rejections and 2 holds of death. Now i find out my personal statement was garbage and my stats and ec's are terrible...i hate my pre-health adviser right now for telling me "o yeah you'll have no problems getting interviews"

MDapps is on the left...anyone care to offer me some critique? For instance schools where i would stand a chance of getting accepted if i improve my EC's?

... i like gathering opinions. Feel free to be brutally honest.

the '09 cycle will be me 3rd time submitting to AMCAS and second time submitting secondaries. If i dont get in next year looks like ill be taking the MCAT again...i wish they still offered the written ones. I feel leery about taking the CBT.

Your stats don't look THAT bad. I got into Jefferson with stats that were similar. I never did any health-related ECs, and I didn't shadow a doctor until I was IN med school.

I am a fairly good writer, so I think that I made my PS pretty memorable. I had interesting ECs, and did a lot of volunteer work (although it wasn't health related).

Your ECs look like they might be interesting, but there isn't a lot about them on your MDapps profile.

What I would do if I were in your shoes: Call every school that hasn't contacted you either way. Tell them that you're interested in their school and ask them if there's any way of getting someone to take a close look at your application. Making them know who you are (by calling them up and being pro-active) can't ever hurt.

If you want to, PM me your personal statement. It's a shame that there aren't more samples of good PSs lying around, because a lot of them that you see are pretty mediocre. I volunteered to read PSs for people on SDN a while back, and they were ALL the same. It got boring after a while. Maybe your's didn't do a good job of showing off your personality? 😕

Good luck.

 

[Perrotfish]

I hope you're not upset at my feedback, but I figured it was better to tell you what I thought so you could improve your chances going forward rather than sugarcoating it and telling you that you'll likely get in this cycle.

Good luck!

I love premeds being 'brutally honest' with other premeds.

Honestly, OP, your app doesn't look that bad, your premed advisor wasn't lying to you. Your MCAT is fine, and your grades are a little on the low side but not terrible. If anything you just need to apply more broadly, and to more DO schools. Also the application cycle isn't over yet, if you still want to submit to more schools (though probably DO only at this point).

Anyway if you end up getting screwed for a second time maybe its time to apply to an SMP. You're a shoe in for a program like EVMS.

 

[Phenol312]

wow you know whats weird...i just looked up EVMS in the msar and i noticed i had the page thumbed down and for some reason i never applied. NUTS.

the only thing about SMPs that concern me is the money... i would rather make it than spend it...are there summer programs i could do that would help me out? If there are i might be able to swing it a little easier financially speaking.

 

[astrocreep96]

Looking at your volunteer work - it seems that you don't have any real "medically-related" volunteer activities, at least on a consistent basis. The "helping single mothers" and "fixing up the historic buildings," specifically.

I've noticed in my interviews that they seem to like it if you've helped perform some sort of medical work with patients when volunteering, hospital work seems to be golden. I say this because I volunteer with a hospice service, and while I find the work enjoyable and rewarding, I often found myself trying to explain why I did not have a greater amount of "patient care" in the fashion that they wanted.

Kind of a narrow line we walk. I'd like to think the adcomm wants us to volunteer with genuine intent and a desire to learn, but I also find they want that to be done in a fairly limited field defined as they see fit. Depending on what niche you may find suits you best, these can often be contradictory. In reference to what volunteer work you've done, then, I suppose it appears you've found things that make you happy, but may not be what the adcomm is looking for.

One thing that I found very enjoyable, and a great talking point on my PS as well as at my interviews, was a somewhat-medical-type trip to South America I did over the summer. If you can get a program like that in your area, it's a great way to spend a summer, forget about med school BS, and bolster your application, all at once.

 

[Funky]

well it's not quite over yet
you could still be getting some love from your state schools

 

[brianmartin]

no medical experience, low gpa, average MCAT...are probably your biggest problems.You do however, have some fun sounding EC's. This will not get you into medical school though.

 

[Phenol312]

So basically I have nothing going for me? Fantastic.

I thought getting a 31 was something to be proud of...even if it just happens to be "average" i managed to pull that score without any fancy books or courses just 6 weeks of studying notes and texts.

As for the GPA its pulled down by a bad semester where i took calc chem physics and bio all at once and was dating a girl who ... took a lot of my attention (is that even a valid excuse?...not like i would use it though). After that ordeal, I pulled my GPA up from a 3.0 to a 3.37 averaging 3.7 overall my last two years. Again I'm kind of proud of that considering I had all my high level science courses in those next two years.

In regards to the clinical experience the impression my adviser gave me was that it was "nice to have...but not essential." Now thats the one thing I can fix and I'm being told that even with that I only have a marginal chance at lower tier MD schools.

Either my adviser was grossly misinformed or the people on SDN are overly pessimistic ... its probably a bit of both.

 

[nshams]

SDN has a much higher avg MCAT than the actual MCAT avg - don't get down about his comment 🙂

 

[RxnMan]

The folks on SDN are often of the hyper-hyper-competitive variety who are looking for the next big advantage. Many concurrently also have the need to be at the best school, the best residency, the best fellowship...as if there was a stamp that would tell you those things. 🙄

Don't get down about it.

I'll tell you that your MCAT would be fine if your GPA were higher. Good work on pulling it up, and you should be proud. As it is, you generally need to be as competitive on one as you are uncompetitive on the other. The best thing to do is to contact the schools you applied to and ask to talk to the dean. Many will refuse. See if one will tell you how to improve/why you were rejected. It may be something you know, or they may give you an idea.

 

[LadyWolverine]

My adivce to you would be the following (as I was once in a similar position, as a re-applicant):
Don't get all lined up to apply again in June. Something's wrong with your application "package", and by just applying again next year, you'll run into the same problems. Take a year or two and work. You're only 22 now - find a job where you can make some money and get out on your own for a while. If you work at a university (for example, in a research lab), or at a biotech company, it is possible to get some kind of tuition reimbursement. You can take courses to (hopefully) offset your GPA a little bit. Another option is a masters, but, as I think you pointed out, MS programs (especially SMPs) can be prohibitively expensive. I think it's much more important to work, gain some job experience, perhaps take a few courses, build up phenomenal recommendations, get some "clinical experience," make some contacts...etc.
If you want to see my MDApps from a few years ago, send me a PM. If you read it, perhaps you'd see what I'm talking about. I was a success story with a low-ish UG GPA and a 33 MCAT. It took me a while to get there, but it was worth the wait. Getting admitted to med school is too time-consuming and expensive to half-ass it. Get all of your ducks in a row, strengthen your application, and THEN re-apply.
Good luck.

 

[Blade28]

Though your MCAT is decent, with a borderline GPA I probably would have applied more broadly - 12 schools might have been too few (and if you're only applying to NY/NJ/DC schools, there are tons more in those areas).

I agree that the "pre-med" extra-currics are a little lacking. Lots of applicants, borderline in terms of GPA/MCAT, will be able to beef up their applications simply by having great research/publications/extra-curriculars/volunteer experience/clinical experience.

Best of luck to you, no matter what you decide to do!

 

[xeulee]

Though your MCAT is decent, with a borderline GPA I probably would have applied more broadly - 12 schools might have been too few (and if you're only applying to NY/NJ/DC schools, there are tons more in those areas).

I agree that the "pre-med" extra-currics are a little lacking. Lots of applicants, borderline in terms of GPA/MCAT, will be able to beef up their applications simply by having great research/publications/extra-curriculars/volunteer experience/clinical experience.

Best of luck to you, no matter what you decide to do!

I agree. If you have to apply next year, try appling to some schools in the midwest and south as well.

 

[Phenol312]

Well I honestly had no idea how competitive things were...my adviser did not do a very good job preparing me and i have maybe one or two premed friends and they have stats worse than mine.

Schools for ‘08
IL
1.Rosalind Franklin University
LA
2.Tulane University
MI
3.Michigan State University College of Human Medicine
4.Wayne State University
NJ
5.UMDNJ – NJMS
6.UMDNJ –RWJ
NY
7.University at Buffalo
8.Albany Medical College
9.NYMC
10.SUNY Downstate
PA
11.Drexel
12.Temple
13.Jefferson
TX
14.University of Texas at San Antonio
VA
15.Eastern Virginia MS
16.Virginia Commonwealth University
DC
17.George Washington
VT
18.University of Vermont
OH
19.University of Toledo?
DO SCHOOLS
UMDNJ COM
NYCOM
PCOM
UNECOM
DMU
KCUMB
CCOM
LMU-DCOM

Comments?

 

[Blade28]

Though you should never equate the average SDN pre-med over on the Pre-Allo forum with the average pre-med around the country, that forum gives a great deal of good advice. The FAQs there (as well as the helpful threads in the Advisors forum) can give you a better picture of the competitiveness of the whole med school application process.

If you can get a hold of an MSAR, that will help tell you average stats of matriculants for each med school as well. Gives a good idea of where you stand, at least numbers-wise. (Obviously there's much more that goes into an acceptance than just MCAT/GPA.)

 

[Phenol312]

Though you should never equate the average SDN pre-med over on the Pre-Allo forum with the average pre-med around the country, that forum gives a great deal of good advice. The FAQs there (as well as the helpful threads in the Advisors forum) can give you a better picture of the competitiveness of the whole med school application process.

If you can get a hold of an MSAR, that will help tell you average stats of matriculants for each med school as well. Gives a good idea of where you stand, at least numbers-wise. (Obviously there's much more that goes into an acceptance than just MCAT/GPA.)

yup already have an MSAR (im actually using it as mouse pad at the moment)

It's from 2007-2008 so its not recent and im not sure how much the data has changed. Looking at the numbers I might be a good fit at those schools but im not sure what their policy is on out of staters. Plus there are always those little helpful bits of information that seem to float around SDN about particular schools that I might've missed. For instance I hear the Texas schools strongly oppose out of state students or something to that effect...

but hey my first name is Anthony so they have to accept me right at San Antonio right?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

TX public schools take 90% in-state applicants, by state law. Baylor chooses to follow suit (and they also follow suit on the ridiculously low in-state tuition). Most state schools in any state will have similar favor towards in-state students.

How is the PS coming along?

 

[Phenol312]

TX public schools take 90% in-state applicants, by state law. Baylor chooses to follow suit (and they also follow suit on the ridiculously low in-state tuition). Most state schools in any state will have similar favor towards in-state students.

How is the PS coming along?

I see...hm

The PS is coming along well im tweaking a little here and there trying to free up some space to dedicate to my clinical volunteering (when i get it) ... ill definitely send a draft your way when i've worked it over a bit more. 👍

 

[caliprincess]

So basically I have nothing going for me? Fantastic.

I thought getting a 31 was something to be proud of...even if it just happens to be "average" i managed to pull that score without any fancy books or courses just 6 weeks of studying notes and texts.

Hey, HPO says weird things. Sometimes they'll tell you that you are a great applicant and then you get very few interviews. Other times they will say that you basically suck and then you hold an acceptance. Anywho, this is just my 2 cents.

SMP is expensive as crap (believe me, I'm in one), and even if you are doing well, there are no guarantees. I'm doing really well in mine and I am holding 4 rejections and others are waiting for my final grades from this semester. So, I would only go if it were a last resort.

Sure your GPA could use a boost, so you may consider taking the 12 credits max this upcoming summer of upper div bio (I think the max at RU is 12 credits). Apply broadly and early to schools, get a nice 4.0 in the summer, and send off your transcript. I don't know what upper division bio courses you've taken, but I think these are offered in the summer: Endocrinology, Immunology, Exercise Physiology, Parasitology, and Pathogenic Microbio. I know you probably have a lot of credits under your belt and you may believe that a 4.0 for 12 credits in the summer is useless, but it's about an upward trend and it might give you a little boost. This will allow you to get a job for the year if you don't want to spend the money on a post-bacc/smp. Not saying it will work, but it is an option.

 

[predodoc]

I didnt read all the advice people had already given but from what I read I think you have a pretty good shot at the MD schools and a good shot at DO.
When you get the interviews for the DO schools just make sure you have already shadowed a DO even if its only for a day. I didnt have much clinical experience either. I had volunteered at a hospital in the radiology dept for a summer but didnt see really anything. I had also shadowed a DO family practice and a MD Derm. On my interview when they asked I told them I had applied to both DO and MD b/c I really did not see any difference when I shadowed(which was the truth). Was accepted the next day. Unless you do terrible on interviews I think you will get in somwhere.

 

[berkshiredoc]

that you've had such a tough time so far. I think you have some great parts of your application ( getting a 3.7 overall the last 2 years after a rough start is amazing). You also have a combination of gaps. Sure, some others don't have clinical experience, but maybe they have a more consistent GPA or amazing community work. A 31 MCAT is very solid....quite fine if you had a 3.6 cum, but you are coming from behind. Medical schools need to believe you can do the work, and that there is something genuinely driving you to med school, because they always have someone more conventional to pick. How you pull all those pieces together often depends on your personal statement...I know that to make the interview cut at Albany, your personal statement counts hugely, once the numbers have been controlled for. I'm a big believer in the power of packaging.

I think you have a good shot for DO this year if you shadow one, read up on osteopathy, and can be convincing and enthusiastic at your interview. I think your allopathic chances aren't super this year, but who cares. If you can get DO, take it and enjoy the start of your medical career. Good luck!

 

[CA0708]

So yeah...i was complete by the end of august here i am in December with 3 rejections and 2 holds of death. Now i find out my personal statement was garbage and my stats and ec's are terrible...i hate my pre-health adviser right now for telling me "o yeah you'll have no problems getting interviews"

MDapps is on the left...anyone care to offer me some critique? For instance schools where i would stand a chance of getting accepted if i improve my EC's?

... i like gathering opinions. Feel free to be brutally honest.

the '09 cycle will be me 3rd time submitting to AMCAS and second time submitting secondaries. If i dont get in next year looks like ill be taking the MCAT again...i wish they still offered the written ones. I feel leery about taking the CBT.

It's not so much your MCAT score - that is higher than the national average...I remember it being around 28-30 back in the day. Well whatever it was or is today, try improving your science GPA...instead of volunteering at a local law firm, volunteer to gain some clinical experience.

 

[Phenol312]

It's not so much your MCAT score - that is higher than the national average...I remember it being around 28-30 back in the day. Well whatever it was or is today, try improving your science GPA...instead of volunteering at a local law firm, volunteer to gain some clinical experience.

I'm still waiting to hear anything back from the volunteer director at my local hospital. Unfortunately, I've been spending MORE time at the law firm because the "my boss" had to go in for surgery (cancer related) and hes also spending a lot of time working on military affairs since hes shooting to move up another rank...plus, with it being winter it seems like everything in the building is falling apart. ugh. o yeah...did i mention i'm still borrowing my parents car (engine in mine blew) and i dont have a job to pay the bills much less pay tuition to improve my grades? Life is great right now. 👎

sorry to b!tch but dealing with all this has been wearing me down a bit...the rejection letters certainly dont make life any easier.

 

[F12]

OP: A few things...

-Your GPA is too low. Shoot to get it up to a 3.5 either though more undergraduate coursework or a postbac or master's degree.
-You have virtually no real EC's other than your TA position and Philosophy Honor Society. Look into hospital volunteering and medical research. Try to TA again if you can.
-Consider applying to DO programs.

Good luck.

Edit: In response to the above post... Ditch the law firm. It counts for NOTHING in terms of your application.

 

[travoltage]

Well I honestly had no idea how competitive things were...my adviser did not do a very good job preparing me and i have maybe one or two premed friends and they have stats worse than mine.

Schools for ‘08
IL
1.Rosalind Franklin University
LA
2.Tulane University
MI
3.Michigan State University College of Human Medicine
4.Wayne State University
NJ
5.UMDNJ – NJMS
6.UMDNJ –RWJ
NY
7.University at Buffalo
8.Albany Medical College
9.NYMC
10.SUNY Downstate
PA
11.Drexel
12.Temple
13.Jefferson
TX
14.University of Texas at San Antonio
VA
15.Eastern Virginia MS
16.Virginia Commonwealth University
DC
17.George Washington
VT
18.University of Vermont
OH
19.University of Toledo?
DO SCHOOLS
UMDNJ COM
NYCOM
PCOM
UNECOM
DMU
KCUMB
CCOM
LMU-DCOM

Comments?

great schools! you comprised a good list that has lower acceptance standards than most other medical institutions, but not guaranteed acceptance..

what i would do in your place (im assuming when you say you've applied 2 times already you mean the summer into senior yr of undergrad and summer leaving undergrad), enroll yourself in some post-bacc work whether its SMP or traditional masters (youll have to take lsat for this and its hard science so i dont recommend this), this will help boost your gpa (assuming you do fine in it), your mcat is fine (dont listen to others) a 31 is good enough at the moment, however if you feel that you can raise it, go for it

next you need to beef up your EC's. i would recommend doing some clinical work at local hospital, shadowing, health related fundraisers (like cystic fibrosis walks, etc) and the biggy....RESEARCH. allopathic schools are based off medical research so why not do your own research to show them that your motivated in this. if you do a SMP, youll have plenty of research opportunities so that would be nice. the reason why you probably didnt get accepted (which is weird, with so many interviews you would think that by chance you get into 1) is because your application hasnt really at all changed. doing an smp, doing more ec's would definently show adcoms that you have put some serious work into this

when you shadow docs, try to find some docs around you that have some kind of connections academically, the family doctor i shadowed is a former dean of admission at my state osteopathic school, and 2 of the urological surgeons i shadowed are both professors at one of my allopathic state schools, i think that could help, not sure

hope my suggestions help, in the end im sure there is a med school for you!

 

[Phenol312]

To F12: I appreciate your input but at this time im not about to leave the law firm. Although it may seem "useless" to you I've known the employees at this firm and its basically come down to 1 lawyer and 1 secretary running the entire building (which has multiple office tenants). On top of this the lawyer has recently been diagnosed and treated for prostate cancer...one of his children has quadriplegic cerebral palsy. I'm not about to run out on my obligations there...its worth it to me and i think thats what matters most.
---
I will be volunteering at my local hospital starting late Jan as this is the only time they run the new volunteer orientation. I also have a job interview tomorrow for a position at LabCorp. Its a 3rd shift position so i figure it'll leave me with plenty of time to volunteer at the hospital as well.

Regarding my GPA...I might take some summer UG courses but I really don't know if it will pay off. i would need over 30 credits to raise my GPA to a 3.5.

I am currently filling out PCOMs secondary and I figure after I start at the hospital I will send an update letter their way probably around the end of February.

I really dont know if an update letter would help at such a late point in the cycle. However, I am mentioning in my secondary essays that I will be volunteering at a hospital so I assume they will be expecting to hear from me. I'll probably send a letter to the MD schools I haven't heard from yet as well.

PS if my grammar/spelling is off im sorry its 2:30am. i'm tired 😛

 

[PlayMeSomeMusic]

phenol-

did you try contacting admission counselors at schools the last time around? if not I'd suggest doing it this time they are usually very helpful in telling you what exactly you should improve to succeed next cycle. good luck!

 

[Phenol312]

phenol-

did you try contacting admission counselors at schools the last time around? if not I'd suggest doing it this time they are usually very helpful in telling you what exactly you should improve to succeed next cycle. good luck!

nah...during this whole admissions process ive basically been on my own since my prehealth adviser wasn't the best. I am leery about contacting schools...I've heard some of them don't give out that kind of advice and the rejection letters seem to agree with that.

Anyone know of a "friendly" school that i have applied to that i could possibly contact?

 

[smq123]

nah...during this whole admissions process ive basically been on my own since my prehealth adviser wasn't the best. I am leery about contacting schools...I've heard some of them don't give out that kind of advice and the rejection letters seem to agree with that.

Anyone know of a "friendly" school that i have applied to that i could possibly contact?

Jefferson is usually pretty good about these things. Contact them, especially in the spring (when the application season is over).