lor dilemma

Started by mx21
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mx21

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I'm kind of worried about my situation right now.

I have three LoR lined up and have already asked 3 professors- 2 science, 1 nonscience. I took a class with one professor and head TA'ed for him, and he told me his letter for me was absolutely amazing, so I have no concerns about that. The other science professor told me that she'd be "very pleased" to write me a letter and she seemed happy with the packet that I sent her. The non-science professor mentioned that was she was pretty busy, but that because I was an "exceptionally good student," that she'd write one for me, even though she'd usually "turn most student down" <--- dont know if I should take that one with a red flag or not!:meanie:

Here's where the trouble starts. I've also been volunteering 10-15 hours/week in a research lab for ~1 year and I thought my post-doc would be supportive of writing me a letter, since he seemed to be generally happy with my performance over the summer and told me that I was a hard worker. And, although I'm not around full-time like during the summer, I still try to come in everyday to help out with what I can on our project.

Apparently, when I asked him about getting a letter from the PI, he told me to "wait until June" until we get more concrete data to show him (we've hit a huge rut for a few months... I've been trying and re-trying different methods but we haven't gotten our desired data. In my defense, I have been very obedient and doing what the postdoc has told me to do, but it just hasn't worked). I asked my post-doc if June would be cutting it too close, since I like to give my professors ample time. He told me that "it's okay, the PI only needs about 3 weeks." I was concerned about this so I emailed my PI directly and told him quite honestly that I would be leaving in June b/c of graduation . I told him about my medical school aspirations and that even though I have three LoR already, that I had the "general impression that it might not be best to ask for a letter at this time, unless you think otherwise," but he never responded back to me. Apparently, the PI went to talk to my postdoc, who slightly got in "trouble" for misleading me into thinking that I wouldn't get a letter. But it seems like the postdoc somehow turned it against ME by saying that "if I improve my performance in lab in the next 4 weeks, then he'll write me a letter and have the PI co-sign it." He also mentioned that "unlike other professors, this lab gives very honest evaluations and we do not inflate our letters," but that he wouldn't write anything negative in my letter, and that even though we hit a rut, he would mention something about my persistence.


I was absolutely bewildered because I was wondering, since when was I doing an unsatisfactory job? Then he threw me off and asked me if I wanted to continue with the project, which I adamantly confirmed that I did. I said I would try to take more initiative in the next 4 weeks and try to be around more. I've been really confused since then because all along I thought I was doing a decent job (I've definitely been dedicated and going in at weekends, etc.), and I don't know if they've been unfairly holding me at a grad student calibration. I think they want me to help out more with planning the experiment and reading papers to bring up suggestions, but frankly, there's only so much I can do at this level.

Anyway, I've been trying to up my work ethic and time in lab, and trying to bring in questions from papers. But even if they give me a letter in the end, should I bother taking it? I'm afraid that not having a research letter is going to hurt me... Is he telling me that I shouldn't get a letter from them? Ok, thanks. Sorry for the long rant!
 
I'd say it's too risky. If you have any doubts about any of your letters, then I really wouldn't recommend using those.
 
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I completely sympathize with you. I'm in a similar situation. My question is, how bad would it be if we don't submit a research LOR altogether, given that we've worked in the lab for >1yr?
 
I did research for a year and a half. I didn't leave my professor on a bad note, but I wasn't too enthusiastic about my research and the professor knew it. Even though it's an experience that taught me a lot, i'm not asking for my research mentor to write me a LOR. i'm not sure if i'm taking the right point of view on this, but i feel like there are more people who know me better and can describe my character much better than he can, even though they have less letters after their name.
 
I completely sympathize with you. I'm in a similar situation. My question is, how bad would it be if we don't submit a research LOR altogether, given that we've worked in the lab for >1yr?

If you were banking on that research being a major cornerstone of your application, then I'd say it's probably going to be a problem. If you have other things to talk about, though, I don't think it'd be a problem at all.
 
If you were banking on that research being a major cornerstone of your application, then I'd say it's probably going to be a problem. If you have other things to talk about, though, I don't think it'd be a problem at all.

Absolutely agree.
 
Thanks everyone for your help! 👍

I guess for now I won't be counting on that letter. To be honest, I think they're total @*#$ for basically milking me for my time when I could've been doing something else... (I've been helping out with so much work that my post-doc was able to get a side job at a coffee place).

It really angers me, but at the same time I realize I'm not "entitled" to a letter so I'm not going to push it any further or cause any drama. I think I'll just leave quietly when I'm done, although I have many problems with the way my mentor led me on into thinking that I was doing a decent job. (aka how am I supposed to change my ways and improve if he doesn't sit down and talk with me about what needs to be improved on?)

And finally, thank goodness that research is not the only thing on my app, and that I have other things going for me. Although I do wonder... maybe I should do an experiment and send the fourth letter to schools that I might not care as much about-- just to see if they all turn me down (aka to see if it was a poisonous letter or not) or if things actually turn out all right? Haha. Or am I just wasting my $$ and time.
 
I'm kind of worried about my situation right now.

I have three LoR lined up and have already asked 3 professors- 2 science, 1 nonscience. I took a class with one professor and head TA'ed for him, and he told me his letter for me was absolutely amazing, so I have no concerns about that. The other science professor told me that she'd be "very pleased" to write me a letter and she seemed happy with the packet that I sent her. The non-science professor mentioned that was she was pretty busy, but that because I was an "exceptionally good student," that she'd write one for me, even though she'd usually "turn most student down" <--- dont know if I should take that one with a red flag or not!:meanie:

Here's where the trouble starts. I've also been volunteering 10-15 hours/week in a research lab for ~1 year and I thought my post-doc would be supportive of writing me a letter, since he seemed to be generally happy with my performance over the summer and told me that I was a hard worker. And, although I'm not around full-time like during the summer, I still try to come in everyday to help out with what I can on our project.

Apparently, when I asked him about getting a letter from the PI, he told me to "wait until June" until we get more concrete data to show him (we've hit a huge rut for a few months... I've been trying and re-trying different methods but we haven't gotten our desired data. In my defense, I have been very obedient and doing what the postdoc has told me to do, but it just hasn't worked). I asked my post-doc if June would be cutting it too close, since I like to give my professors ample time. He told me that "it's okay, the PI only needs about 3 weeks." I was concerned about this so I emailed my PI directly and told him quite honestly that I would be leaving in June b/c of graduation . I told him about my medical school aspirations and that even though I have three LoR already, that I had the "general impression that it might not be best to ask for a letter at this time, unless you think otherwise," but he never responded back to me. Apparently, the PI went to talk to my postdoc, who slightly got in "trouble" for misleading me into thinking that I wouldn't get a letter. But it seems like the postdoc somehow turned it against ME by saying that "if I improve my performance in lab in the next 4 weeks, then he'll write me a letter and have the PI co-sign it." He also mentioned that "unlike other professors, this lab gives very honest evaluations and we do not inflate our letters," but that he wouldn't write anything negative in my letter, and that even though we hit a rut, he would mention something about my persistence.


I was absolutely bewildered because I was wondering, since when was I doing an unsatisfactory job? Then he threw me off and asked me if I wanted to continue with the project, which I adamantly confirmed that I did. I said I would try to take more initiative in the next 4 weeks and try to be around more. I've been really confused since then because all along I thought I was doing a decent job (I've definitely been dedicated and going in at weekends, etc.), and I don't know if they've been unfairly holding me at a grad student calibration. I think they want me to help out more with planning the experiment and reading papers to bring up suggestions, but frankly, there's only so much I can do at this level.

Anyway, I've been trying to up my work ethic and time in lab, and trying to bring in questions from papers. But even if they give me a letter in the end, should I bother taking it? I'm afraid that not having a research letter is going to hurt me... Is he telling me that I shouldn't get a letter from them? Ok, thanks. Sorry for the long rant!

This is a really weird situation that might have be circumvented if you asked your PI directly for a rec rather than your post-doc, who seems kind of strange. Unless you're gunning for Top20 schools I wouldn't worry too much about not having a research recommendation.
 
Thanks everyone. Yeah, this whole situation is really messed up. Back in January, I told my postdoc that after graduation, it would be impossible for me to stay in this area unless I was getting paid, and that I was thinking of moving back home to get a job there.

At that point, he offered to even keep me for another year and to get me on their payroll so that I'd have a 1-year fixed-term salary. So from that experience, I thought, "OK, it seems like I'm doing a good enough job for him to want to keep me..."


Thing is, he's made promises in the past that he hasn't kept, so I was wary about taking the job even if the PI ended up offering it. Also, I felt a little bit disgruntled because I felt that I was uncompensated and unappreciated for the work that I had already put in, and the salary here is also pretty meager. But most of all, I wanted to move back home to my family, so I ended up landing a nice clinical research assistant job at a reputed university back home.

Since then, I don't know if he's been disgruntled by that, but honestly, I'm peacing the hell out of here when I'm done! :laugh: