LOR from Non-Faculty

[psypipe]

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Dear All,

Quick question: If a program specifically states they require LOR from three faculty persons does that mean that if I have clinical experience as a case manager I cannot submit a letter from my supervisor who is an MSW (non-faculty)? I ask because I have three years of research experience (and posters), but they have been under two labs. This means I will only be able to get two letters from that experience. I have been working full time post-grad in case management/crisis counseling and the logical choice would be to send a third letter from my supervisor (MSW), but I was reading the website for Rutgers Psy.D. and they specifically state 3 faculty persons. Can anyone clarify this? Maybe it depends on the program, but I thought someone may have inside knowledge.

Thanks,

PP

 

[CheetahGirl]

So (as you may know) Rutgers is one of the most competitive PsyDs in the Northeast. I would try to get all three letters from those with doctorates in Psych (you are applying to doctorates in Psych, right?). Could you reach out for academic supportive letters, from former professors (w/ doctorates)?

Not to sound elitist, but it is the tiny things like this that may set you apart at the acceptance discussion tables. If you can get your MSW supervisor to write you an awesome letter discussing your clinical skills and what it's like to supervise you, then it will have to do. I was in a similar situation (when applying to programs), but went back and got a 3rd letter from a former professor and used my clinical research supervisor (who was an MD) as a 4th and supplemental recommender (in case the 3 other recommenders were delayed in sending their LORs by the deadline).

 

[psypipe]

So (as you may know) Rutgers is one of the most competitive PsyDs in the Northeast. I would try to get all three letters from those with doctorates in Psych (you are applying to doctorates in Psych, right?). Could you reach out for academic supportive letters, from former professors (w/ doctorates)?

Not to sound elitist, but it is the tiny things like this that may set you apart at the acceptance discussion tables. If you can get your MSW supervisor to write you an awesome letter discussing your clinical skills and what it's like to supervise you, then it will have to do. I was in a similar situation (when applying to programs), but went back and got a 3rd letter from a former professor and used my clinical research supervisor (who was an MD) as a 4th and supplemental recommender (in case the 3 other recommenders were delayed in sending their LORs by the deadline).

Thanks for replying Cheetah girl. I understand what you are saying. My problem is that two of my letters are from professors in psychology who supervised me in research (combined three years), but for my third letter I only have the choice between professors who I took classes with, my honors thesis committee (who I met at my defense LOL), and my MSW supervisor. I could get a really good letter from a teaching faculty who knows me well. I took 6 classes with her, but she never supervised me in research. My MSW supervisor has supervised me for years and is my current employer for full time clinical work so I thought a letter from her will carry more weight than one from a PHD teaching faculty ( I may be wrong 🙁 ). Thank you for taking the time to reply!

 

[psypipe]

I would try to get all three letters from those with doctorates in Psych (you are applying to doctorates in Psych, right?). Could you reach out for academic supportive letters, from former professors (w/ doctorates)?


Yes, I am applying to Doctorate programs in clinical psychology with exposure in both PDT/EBT's. So Rutgers, CUNY, LIU-B, U of Tennessee etc.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Psypipe - get 4 letters! Don't exclude anyone and ask the Faculty to address some great traits and the MSW to address your clinical work and how wonderful you are to supervise. It pays to be strategic - start now now b/c it does not let up in this dog eat dog world. Good luck!

 

[psypipe]

Psypipe - get 4 letters! Don't exclude anyone and ask the Faculty to address some great traits and the MSW to address your clinical work and how wonderful you are to supervise. It pays to be strategic - start now now b/c it does not let up in this dog eat dog world. Good luck!

I think this is a good idea. Will do that. Thank You!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Psypipe - get 4 letters! Don't exclude anyone and ask the Faculty to address some great traits and the MSW to address your clinical work and how wonderful you are to supervise. It pays to be strategic - start now now b/c it does not let up in this dog eat dog world. Good luck!

Just as a caution, some programs are very strict about giving them what they ask for and nothing more. When you think about, they get enough paperwork already, and one extra letter x 120 applicants adds up. So, make sure they are okay with it before submitting four letters.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Good advice....but you could always position it as wanting to get your complete packet submitted ASAP....which most grad admission depts will only forward the complete packets to the psych depts once all components are in....so any 4th letter that trickles in will be considered supplemental. But, for sure, strictly adhere to all other aspects of application (like word limits, types of writing samples req'd, etc.). Also remember NO (I mean ZERO) type-os in your materials. This is such a key factor that's unknown/overlooked. It can be such a poor reflection on applicant regardless of the strength of the applicant. I recently had a supervisor that said she decide against a seemingly great internship applicant b/c of the amount of typeos...and the supervisor's perspective was that doesn't have time check behind an intern's spelling/grammar b/c at this point in training, it's all about content and process, not grammar (which should be addressed by each applicants' style, not the supervisor).

BTW...program application time, my 4 letters never hurt me, but the one program that had an egregious typeo in the cover letter (I mentioned the incorrect program in the body of the text...eeek!) never responded to me and most likely did not place my revised cover letter with my packet (too much work for them at that point).

Mistakes happen...just minimize the frequency of them whenever possible.

 

[FLpsychstudent]

I would ask an admin person. The program I am currently in required all 3 letters to be academic/from a psych dept or something like that (can't remember the wording), but I worked at the VA so I had 2 letters from people at the VA and I got in. But they were still traditional clinical psych phds working in research, so kind of the same thing. Usually as long as you are courteous and respectful, asking a question like that to admin can't hurt.

 

[HPB2015]

You should always contact the program to be sure, but FWIW I got an interview for Rutgers PsyD (this year) with one "faculty" letter (she is a prof, but not my prof...I worked in her lab), one MA, and one supervisor with no psych credentials. I have been out of school for a while so they may have looked at my candidacy a little differently, but, maybe not. Just my two cents to offer a different perspective!

 

[psypipe]

It sounds like the safest approach is to contact an admin person first, and ask it is possible to send 4 letters. If three letters is the limit I would rather send the adjunct faculty LOR just to be safe. I thought it was strange that programs ask all three letters to be from Psychology faculty (especially a PSYD program). Maybe its just my area, but all the agencies that allow undergraduates get clinical experience are supervised either by MSW or MA counselors (It could be because I do not live in a major city). When I planned for my professional experience, I though that for balanced/Clinical programs 3 letters: 2 from research and 1 from clinical experience made more sense than 3 LOR from research labs. Thank you for your responses!

 

[psypipe]

You should always contact the program to be sure, but FWIW I got an interview for Rutgers PsyD (this year) with one "faculty" letter (she is a prof, but not my prof...I worked in her lab), one MA, and one supervisor with no psych credentials. I have been out of school for a while so they may have looked at my candidacy a little differently, but, maybe not. Just my two cents to offer a different perspective!

That's is nice to hear. Thank you for sharing!