LOR question for aProgDirector

[Freudster]

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If I unselect a LOR for a program that has not yet downloaded my application, will it still be available for them to download at a later date? Or will they not be able to download it?

Thank you!

p.s. just to add an additional question, will they able to see that I deselected a LOR or will it just appear to them as if I submitted 3?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

They will get the LOR even if you de-select it, and it will appear with a red X next to it saying "inactive". You cannot remove it once you have assigned it. It's like putting it in the mail -- there is no getting it back.

 

[Prof Moriarty]

Supposing you are confident that you have 5 very strong LOR's, and that they each add something to your overall application... what should you do?

Just pick the best 4? Or do this thing where you deselect one of the LOR's and then add a new one? Kinda seems like poor form.

Is there any good way to use all 5 letters?

 

[alwaysaangel]

Supposing you are confident that you have 5 very strong LOR's, and that they each add something to your overall application... what should you do?

Just pick the best 4? Or do this thing where you deselect one of the LOR's and then add a new one? Kinda seems like poor form.

Is there any good way to use all 5 letters?

The general consensus here is to never send 5 to one program.

If you want to make use of all 5 you could research your programs and pick and choose 4 based on that. eg. if one of your letters is from a research PI send it to the research heavy programs don't use it at others, if one of your letters is from a county hospital faculty then send that to all the counties but not to others.

Then you are getting use of all 5 but aren't irritating any given program by sending 5.

 

[Freudster]

Sorry to belabor the point, but I just wanted to be totally clear. Can they still see the the de-assigned letter even if they *never downloaded* it prior to my de-assigning it?

Thank you!

 

[FatKid]

I thought most programs said they want 3 letters of recommendation?

Are you allowed to send 4 if you want? Or do they only look at the first 3?

 

[kdburton]

I thought most programs said they want 3 letters of recommendation?

Are you allowed to send 4 if you want? Or do they only look at the first 3?

Some program websites go so far as to say "if you send more than 3, the additional letters will be discarded" whereas I've contacted programs who just list a number and don't specify minimum/maximum and they say they would accepted more than the number listed. In general I'm only sending what they ask for unless they say "X, but more are welcome."

 

[sprinkibrio]

Sorry to belabor the point, but I just wanted to be totally clear. Can they still see the the de-assigned letter even if they *never downloaded* it prior to my de-assigning it?

Thank you!

It does seem odd that they would actually see an "x" if you switch before the recommender has submitted the rec or before the program downloaded things. Thanks for asking again, because, that is NOT intuitive from what we see at all.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Sorry to belabor the point, but I just wanted to be totally clear. Can they still see the the de-assigned letter even if they *never downloaded* it prior to my de-assigning it?

Thank you!

Yes. The letter will still be sent.

 

[placid]

I had a question along the same vein. Can the programs read the letter after I deassign it and if yes, do they? I had a letter which was signed a while back and I got the writer to give me an updated LOR stamped with a recent date. I applied with the earlier letter, want to change and assign the updated letters as soon as they are uploaded. The content of the letters are same, the new one is just stamped with a new date. Can I do this, because it would seem odd if the programs can read all the downloaded letters.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Yes, we can see all the old letters. Once we receive something, you can't just "take it back". However, in your case you could re-upload the new letters into the old slot. This would overwrite the old letters. You can only do this because the writer of the two letters are the same. If you've already created new slots and sent the letter to ECFMG, then it's too late.

 

[MedicineForLife 777]

But if we de-assign the letter before it is uploaded to ERAS, the programs won't receive it right? And they won't even know it was assigned to them?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

But if we de-assign the letter before it is uploaded to ERAS, the programs won't receive it right? And they won't even know it was assigned to them?

No, that is not correct. Once the letter is assigned, it will be sent. De-assigning it does not change that at all.

 

[MedicineForLife 777]

No, that is not correct. Once the letter is assigned, it will be sent. De-assigning it does not change that at all.

Even if we de-assign before the letter is uploaded?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Yes, even if you de-assign before upload. When the letter is uploaded, it will be sent as an inactive letter.

Assigning a letter is like putting it in the mail, you can't get it back. At least that's the way I THINK it all works.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

An SDN member had contacted ERAS to try to clarify the question asked in this thread -- What happens when an applicant de-assigns a letter sent to a program before the program has downloaded the application? My understanding was that all letters assigned were sent, and that the deassigned letter would be marked as inactive. They had contacted ERAS, who told them that the letter would not be sent at all in this case.

Given the confusion, I contacted ERAS myself. I'd like to say I'm less confused now, although I'm not certain. When I explained the question to the ERAS help desk person, she told me that the letter would not be sent. When I explained to her that I was concerned that was not the correct answer and why, she put me on hold to talk to someone more superior, then return to tell me that I was correct and that the letter would be sent.

So, in the end, I think the situation is as such:

For LOR's only:
1) if you assign a letter to a program, when the letter is uploaded to your dean's office it will be sent.
2) if you de-assign a letter, the letter will be marked as inactive.
3) if you de-assign a letter before it is downloaded, the same is true. When the letter is downloaded, it will be marked as inactive and be visible to PD's
4) if you have assigned a letter to programs and it has not been uploaded, then I will not see it at all. I will not see that a letter is missing, nor whom it was supposed to be from. It will be as if it doesn't exist at all.
5) If you re-upload a letter into a slot that already exists and has a letter in it, it will overwrite the old letter and replace it. If I have a printout of it I could compare the two, if not I only have the new version.

For ALL other documents -- PS, MSPE, Transcript, Photo, etc
1) Any update / new assignment erases the old copy. If I have a printout I can compare, else I only have the new version. Any update like this is flagged for me -- I can ask for a report of all updated documents, especially for printing if needed.

 

[coup de chance]

Thanks aPD for your excellent and thorough answer.

 

[mzztiffany]

aProgDirector and others :

I have tried to read through alot of the different postings and forums to get this answer and YET I am still uncertain! My question is specifically this:

I have uploaded 4 LORs to most of my programs. I recently had a 5th one uploaded by my school to ERAS. This is by far the best LOR I'll have.

I heard from past students that the best way to get this one uploaded is to unclick one of the 4 that has already been uploaded by the programs in ERAS, leaving it "inactive" and then clicking the 5th one to ensure that the 5th one is sent. It's still early in the game and most programs will still upload the last one LOR.

Is this true? I hope it is because I really want this LOR to get out there.
Thank you in advance!

Tiffany

 

[alwaysaangel]

aProgDirector and others :

I have tried to read through alot of the different postings and forums to get this answer and YET I am still uncertain! My question is specifically this:

I have uploaded 4 LORs to most of my programs. I recently had a 5th one uploaded by my school to ERAS. This is by far the best LOR I'll have.

I heard from past students that the best way to get this one uploaded is to unclick one of the 4 that has already been uploaded by the programs in ERAS, leaving it "inactive" and then clicking the 5th one to ensure that the 5th one is sent. It's still early in the game and most programs will still upload the last one LOR.

Is this true? I hope it is because I really want this LOR to get out there.
Thank you in advance!

Tiffany

The answer is already in this very thread.

Don't do it. All 5 will be sent and the general consensus is programs don't like students to do that.

 

[mzztiffany]

The answer is already in this very thread.

Don't do it. All 5 will be sent and the general consensus is programs don't like students to do that.

Thank you for your answer. But it doesn't answer my question. I want to know if I can send this last letter. I called a residency coordinator and they are getting all 5 letters although one like aProgD and someone else mentioned has an X next to it. This last letter is way too important for me not to send it.

Thanks.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You can send it, just as you said. This isn't a "trick". It's the way ERAS works.

Whether you should send it or not is the question.

Some programs will simply review all 5 of your letters and not care.
Some will see 4 letters and not bother reading the 5th.
Some will see 5 letters, decide that you don't know how to follow directions, and hold it against you. Sure, this 5th letter is your "best". But why did you send 4 already if you thought you might be getting a better letter? (that's rhetorical, don't answer it)

In the first, you win.
In the second, it doesn't matter.
In the third, you lose.

Whether sending a 5th letter is an overall win or lose is hard to say. If your letter is really "that good" as you mention, that your app can't live without it, then you send it.

 

[jackieMD2007]

I don't think that is a rhetorical question I think it is a GREAT question--why did you send 4 already when you had a 5th in the works that could have been better?!

I love how people create their own problems and then freak out! It really isn't that hard to read the instructions for each of your residency programs you're applying to and read about the programs on the websites and whatever.

Either way good luck.

 

[NandeYanen]

I don't think that is a rhetorical question I think it is a GREAT question--why did you send 4 already when you had a 5th in the works that could have been better?!

I love how people create their own problems and then freak out! It really isn't that hard to read the instructions for each of your residency programs you're applying to and read about the programs on the websites and whatever.

Either way good luck.

Wow, what a condescending post...

Honestly, I empathize with the scenario described above. After all, we can't always predict the future - especially what attending we might get and when, or how the chemistry might be within our medical teams, etc. To a certain extent, its a crap shoot.

I appreciate the thoughtful advice from aProgDirector. I've also heard 2 other program directors' (at my med school) who approach the LOR after submission issue with a slightly more laid back attitude. I guess they would be in the "read all 5 LORs" camp of altruism. Either way, I think we've all covered this topic enough

 

[jackieMD2007]

Wow, what a condescending post...

It is NOT condescending to ask people who are about to become resident physicians to use good common sense and plan things out.

Getting LOR's is NOT a crap-shoot. You just have to, well, see directly above. 🙄

 

[medicine4me]

Hmmm... I have another question for aProgDirector and all posters on this thread: I would really like to thank my attendings who have written me LORs. It seems like a benign gesture to send small thank you cards to their respective offices.

However, is it a benign gesture sending one to an attending who wrote an obligatory chairman's letter that he/she (gender protected for anonymity) had to write for everyone applying to Internal Medicine? I've actually had contact with this particular physician since I was an MS2 and would like to thank him/her for all the advice I've received along my career as a student. However, he/she is also an associate program director of one of highly desired residency programs. Is this a conflict of interest/awkward thing to do since I am in a sense trying to be genuinely nice while hinting my desire for the program?

Thank you!

NB: I have rarely posted on these threads. Usually I post after a long time searching. The answers I found were not specific enough.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You are totally overthinking this. You can certainly send a thank you note to anyone who wrote you a letter. Even if they "had to" because it was their job to write department letters, it's still a nice gesture. And there is no conflict of interest IMHO.

 

[medicine4me]

Thank you so much for your response! I had a feeling I was overthinking a bit.

 

[mzztiffany]

Sorry for the late follow-up but I've been and still on the interview trail so been busy.

Anyway Thank you to those who weren't condescending and thanks to AProg for the help!

I would like to state that I did send in my 5th letter and on all of my interviews, almost every single person interviewing me have stated that my letters have been extremely strong and would point out which ones in particular. In addition - Yes the 5th letter was one of the strongest. So yes I did freak out but no I don't regret sending it in. In fact, I'm glad I did. No one has said I had too many letters or that I didn't know how to follow instructions.