LOR. Science Profs??

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Turtlespeed

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Hi all,

I had a Q about LORs, specifically if you need 2 science professors. Most top schools simply say faculty or just one science prof. Anyone know of ones that specifically say 2 science profs???

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Even if it is not required by a school, I can't imagine you would want only one. Some people you are competing against are providing upwards of 6 letters, many from science professors, MDs, research post-docs. These are the most important, since how you did in presenting some historical or literary context will not be as relevant to your medical school potential. I tried to aim my one non-science letter to something important to the adcom, so I got a letter from my public speaking professor.
 
Even if it is not required by a school, I can't imagine you would want only one. Some people you are competing against are providing upwards of 6 letters, many from science professors, MDs, research post-docs. These are the most important, since how you did in presenting some historical or literary context will not be as relevant to your medical school potential. I tried to aim my one non-science letter to something important to the adcom, so I got a letter from my public speaking professor.

I think Turtlespeed was asking for the # of LORs from science professors only, not counting in the LORs from MDs and research post-docs and PIs.
 
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Many schools wants letters from at least 2 science profs.
 
Please do not just say That most schools want two without evidence.

Stanford
Umich
Cornell
UCSF
Harvard

All are ok with one or even none from science profs.

Does anyone know of schools that explicitly say 2 science profs
 
MCW denied my application because of lack of science profs.
 
Well that is odd considering there website says

"Two separate letters from classroom professors: If your undergraduate
institution has neither a Premed Committee or a Service, you will need to supply us with two letters from classroom professors, one of which must have taught you Biology, Chemistry or Physics."

Any others??
 
That's right I only had 1 professor ;p
 
i don't know too much about top schools. i only applied to middle-tier and there were quite a few that required 2 science LOR's. I only mention this to caution you that although many top schools may or may not require it, do not assume that this is true for all of the schools. I mean I had problems this cycle b/c I assumed that a research professor could count as my 2nd science LOR but that turned out to be not true for some of those schools. I will tell you that the general guideline of 2 science LOR (one from major and the other from bio, chem, or physics who you took classes with and received a grade from) and 1 humanities LOR is very accurate and covers almost all of your bases. Unless you want to be automatically excluded from applying to some schools it is better to be safe than sorry. There is no leeway with the schools usually over their LOR requirements.
 
Ok so can you tell me what schools these are?

I have 2 professors, so that is not an issue for me, Its just that I only have one science prof, but from my searching it does not seem that schools require 2 science profs, please post schools that specifically require 2 science profs.
 
I'll be honest which is that many of us don't discover the LOR requirements until after we receive our secondary. It's not conveniently listed for us on the MSAR. If you live on the West Coast like I do and have to apply to 25+ schools then you really don't keep track anymore since if you do have the 2 science + 1 non-science it meets all the minimum requirements and you just send the same packet everywhere. That is why people have been hesitant to list schools. It's not that they're not sure but because it takes a little bit more effort to actually go back and look at the school requirements.

However, since you don't seem to want to take our word for this, I've looked over the list of medical schools I applied to and found a few. Keep in mind, I decided to stop after I felt there was a sizeable quantity and not because this is actually all the medical schools that require 2 science letters. Although you yourself may not be considering applying to most of these schools (although you would be crazy not to since a lot of them especially northwestern are some of the best), you can see it would exclude a few important schools for most people especially since outside of california these are among the few that accept OOS in good numbers. LOL you can see why in my case I just had to get those 2 science LOR's (out of 25 schools...)

UVA
"The School of Medicine prefers a premedical advisor evaluation, or if this service is not available, a minimum of two letters, preferably from science professors or the equivalent."

UVM
"Two letters must be from professors in the sciences with whom you have taken classes."

Einstein
"Applicants who have attended a school at which there is no Pre-Professional Advisory Committee must have at least two letters of recommendation from faculty members at that school. One of these letters should be from a faculty member in the department of the applicant's major, and the other from a science faculty member.

If the major subject is science, the second letter should be from a member of a science department other than the person writing the first letter. Letters from Teaching Assistants will not satisfy this requirement, although TAs may co-sign letters with senior faculty."


Temple
If your school does not offer a committee letter or compilation service, our preference is to review an application with two science letters from faculty with whom you completed course work. If there is a compelling reason why you cannot obtain the two science letters, we will review your application with the letters provided. Please indicate in the supplemental application essay why you are unable to provide the requested letters. We welcome as many letters as you wish to provide for your application"

UCI
"Three to six letters are suggested. We recommend that at least two of the letters be from professors in the sciences with whom you have taken classes"

UCSD
"A minimum of three letters arerequired from individuals who can provide a well considered evaluationof your qualifications for the medical profession. (Two of the three should be from faculty with a science background at a four-yearundergraduate institution – course instructors, research mentors, clinical faculty are all acceptable."

Northwestern
"Your letters may be written by your college's pre-medical advisory committee, or they may come from three faculty members, at least two of whom are science faculty members, who have taught you."

UCSF
"We ask applicants who pass the preliminary review to submit 3-5 letters of recommendation, including at least two letters from your instructors...The letters that will tell us the most about you, your contributions, and your potential are those from instructors of upper division courses who know you well." - This one applies to most science majors

Jefferson
" If individual letters are sent, we prefer one biology, one chemistry and one physics and one humanities."

Case Western
"At least three, with two coming from science based faculty members. We recommend at least one letter come from a science class instructor."

Drexel
"If this isn't possible, students should ask three individuals who hold college-level academic appointments to send letters of recommendation. Two of these should be from science faculty and one from a faculty member in a non-science discipline."
 
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i don't know too much about top schools. i only applied to middle-tier and there were quite a few that required 2 science LOR's. I only mention this to caution you that although many top schools may or may not require it, do not assume that this is true for all of the schools. I mean I had problems this cycle b/c I assumed that a research professor could count as my 2nd science LOR but that turned out to be not true for some of those schools. I will tell you that the general guideline of 2 science LOR (one from major and the other from bio, chem, or physics who you took classes with and received a grade from) and 1 humanities LOR is very accurate and covers almost all of your bases. Unless you want to be automatically excluded from applying to some schools it is better to be safe than sorry. There is no leeway with the schools usually over their LOR requirements.

Hi Bravofleet, regarding the letter from your research professor, did you ever take a class with him as well? I'm planning to do the same thing but I did take a graduate level class with my professor, which has a grade and everything, and it is on my transcript. So I hope that will be okay.

(Sorry don't mean to steal the thread; I think this is still a relevant question)
 
dear student 113 no i didn't which is why i couldn't use it. I think having a professor who you did both with is highly beneficial b/c it shows you can form lasting relationships with your teachers. the same thing happens when students return to tutor or TA for a professor they took a class from. it definitely allow the person writing the LOR to have more to talk about. in any case, though, it must above all discuss your abilities as a student first if it's going to be one of the 2 science letters. It's true that your LOR's should reflect things about your personal character but they also want to hear about your qualities as a student. Medical school is very difficult (as I plan to find out next year! yes accepted...) and they want to make sure you can succeed. This includes being able to ask for help. Lots of people blaze through undergrad and get straight A's without ever having to go to office hours. Me included. If you have problems, though, they need to know you're capable of working it out with others and that you're not afraid of asking your instructor for help or clarification.

In a way it mirrors a question I got at a job interview and bumbled up. They asked me, "Has there ever been any problems in your lab which you had to point out or resolve on your own?" They later explained that they weren't looking for initiative so much as knowing that if there were any problems I should always bring it up with them first.
 
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Ok I am a non science major, so maybe they might be more lenient

currently I have 4 letters

1 non science prof
1 science prof
1 MD I did research with
1 hospital supervisor where I volunteer at.

I guess I could try for another science letter.
 
Just keep in mind that LOR's is pretty much a checklist kind of thing meaning your application isn't even considered complete until they can check off you've met the school's LORs requirements. Usually you will have to specify which letters they should look at for the two science and one non-science letter on your secondary app. Therefore, don't think if you submit 6 LOR's they won't notice. They just won't read any of them or the rest of your application...

The only way around this is to call each individual school and explain to them your situation and hope that they'll make an exception. This is incredibly risky though...

You are right though. Being a non-science major you even meet the requirements for some of the schools I've posted.
 
I came across this awhile ago from UCSB health advising telling you what types of letters each med school requires. It seems like it hasn't been updated in some time but it still might be of use.

http://www.ltsc.ucsb.edu/health/info_sheets/med_school_letter_types.pdf


In most of these it says "faculty". What is the definition of this term according to med schools???!!? Meaning professors or could it also include those that you did research PI's with since they also count as the faculty of that institution.
 
In most of these it says "faculty". What is the definition of this term according to med schools???!!? Meaning professors or could it also include those that you did research PI's with since they also count as the faculty of that institution.

Faculty can include research PI's. The spreadsheet that was provided by queenofhearts is very helpful but I wouldn't go by it exclusively. In case you didn't notice some of the schools I listed say specifically SCIENCE FACULTY WHO YOU TOOK A CLASS WITH AND RECEIVED A GRADE FROM and the spreadsheet fails to make this important distinction. If that wasn't important, then I wouldn't have had any problems this cycle like I did. As I said before in a previous post there are reasons why schools want to hear what you are like as a student that goes beyond your grade in the class. Most other schools requiring two science letters, though, will accept a research letter as a second science letter, so you may not encounter this problem. Unless you check in advance with all the schools, though, you could end up wasting your money needlessly and dwindling your chances when application time comes around.

P.S. I don't think getting credit for doing research means you can list your PI as a professor you received a grade from...
 
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Bottom line is, it's SAFEST to get 2 science class profs and 1 non-science class prof letter. Then add in whatever else you want.
 
Bottom line is, it's SAFEST to get 2 science class profs and 1 non-science class prof letter. Then add in whatever else you want.

Is this rule of thumb for premed's who don't come from an undergrad school that has a premed-committee, who formulates a committee letter based on their individual letter requirements? Or should you obtain these specific letters to submit , even if your school has a premed committee who has different letter requirements? ie 1 science letter and 1 letter in your major and 1 any other letter.
 
if you have a pre-med committee, then they will collect the letters for you I think, so you don't have to worry about it, but you should check to make sure your school has one. my school does not have a pre-med committee but it does offer a letter service where it will compile all my letters for me and send it out as one packet. the pro's are that it's cheaper than other commercial services and they hold my letters for several years which allows me to reapply in case you didn't get in this cycle. The cons are that it will only allow you to have 6 letters max and once a letter is sent in it cannot be removed from the packet by the school except by request of the recommender. once again, though, this was not a pre-med committee. I had to personally solicit and choose people to write letters from me entirely at my choice.

it seems like according to some of the LOR requirements I read from the schools, though, that it's possible to avoid the pre-med committee and have applicants submit their own LOR's. however, I think for the most part medical schools will demand a pre-med committee letter if your school offers me. Again usually what your school itself does is not widely known as only those applying to graduate school take advantage of the service. I would contact your bio department to find out.
 
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