LORs and residency matching

[Spotinho]

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Hello,

I am a 2nd year pod student, and I thought it would be more appropriate to post this question here and not in the podiatry students forum as residents have gone through the matching process recently and in retrospect know what worked and didn't work. In a nutshell: In the grand scheme of things how important are LORs for residency application?

I have been offered the opportunity to TA for the second time this semester and I am wondering if I shouldn't turn it down this time. The professor whom asked me to TA this second time thinks very highly of me and if I were to TA for him/her I'd feel comfortable asking for a LOR at that point. Thing is caspr/crip website does not give much info other than "Programs will indicate on their Directory Page how many letters of recommendation applicants are required to submit. Some programs specifically require the Dean’s Letter, if available. Most programs expect to receive the LORs as part of your CASPR Application." BUT when I look at the caspr/crip directory out of the 25 programs I checked none had an LOR field description. What is your experience when applying for programs and interviewing? Did LORs come in handy? I should mention the professor is from the basic sciences dept, not DPM.

The second part of the question is that I was hoping to pursue research instead. I've been waiting to get a bit more exposure in podiatry related courses to venture into reaching out for the possibility to do research with faculty. I can only choose to do one, research or TA due to personal time constraints. In your experience which is more worthwhile considering residency matching being the end goal? With research is not a for sure thing because it may not be there at all OR it may not lead to anything significant or publication.

Besides a good GPA and first pass for boards, what in an applicants CV would make them stand out positively?

Thank you for any feedback!

 

[Scrantonicity]

The letters themselves are probably not very impactful at all. Who is going to get a bad letter of recommendation? It's just a hoop to jump through. Residency directors are going to judge you by your personality, smarts, and willingness to work. When I was in residency and we were considering applicants, we never read LOR's. We glanced at their GPA, then discussed how much we actually enjoyed working with them during their externship. Sometimes lower GPA's won out if we REALLY liked the applicant--though we did have a threshold--I think it was 3.2 or something like that--any lower than that, and we didn't consider you.

Letters of Recommendation are basically a formality, but the more sincere ones you can get, the better--I don't know how many residency directors actually look at them (or if they do at all), but they are the most annoying parts of most applications. To get a state license in podiatry, or to apply for hospital privileges, it's usually mandatory to send in at least 3 of them--so it's good to have some go-to people that you can count on for a good one.

I would do research instead of TA'ing a second time for the LOR aspect of it at least. If you do that, then you have two faculty in your pocket for letters of recommendation--which may serve you for years to come (reapplying to hospitals for privileges, moving to another state and getting a different license, etc).

 

[CutsWithFury]

We didn't care nor did we read any letters of recs or consider extra-curricular activities.

We looked at GPA + personality and work ethic on externship rotation. Attendings had some input but students were ranked by the residents for the most part. If a resident hated you then you were pretty much screwed.

Externships are like a blend of showing how smart your are, some kissing ass to the attendings, doing everything you can to get the residents to like you, being punctual and working hard. It has to be a perfect blend of that.

Kiss too much ass then residents will see through this.

Don't jive with a resident then you can kiss your spot goodbye.

Not showing up on time and not willing to stay late? you can kiss that spot goodbye

Not answering pimp questions right the majority of the time or refusing to speak at all because you are nervous/unsure then you can kiss that spot goodbye

 

[Spotinho]

Thank you both for the replies, great insight.

To be honest one of the main reasons I asked is because a lot of the stuff that goes on (as far as extracurriculars is concerned) in my school is just formalities; like meetings and events, etc. which most of the time is just to meet certain reqs. for a club to stay open for example or because they hold this event annually. Some of the times here and there they would advertise them as great CV boosters! I got caught up in them my first year but (I hope I don't sound arrogant when I say this) they lacked substance so I stopped participating and focusing more on school. I get the networking aspect, but a lot of times I felt like I was wasting my time.

Next year I'll be in clinics then figuring out where to extern and at that time if I keep this up I will have nothing on my CV to show for. My GPA should be fine, but basically I would have a blank 4 year Pod resume. I remember hearing when I was a first year, a 3rd year applying (to extern?) and was called back by one of the Drs. (not sure resident or attending) and asked further about his/her research. I've done research in undergrad successfully and If I were to do something outside school that I thought was worth shortening my time studying it would be that.

So, how do you apply for residencies or externships with an empty CV? Is research viewed favorably only in research oriented programs? If you participated in research during podiatry school, any insights/advice as to how to get involved, go about it, and timing?

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[heybrother]

The whole letter of recommendation thing should be done away with. Students who did research should probably ask for something. People who sat out a year or had a major issue (didn't match, took a year off, whatever) should get someone to write a letter explaining what they've been up to.

Let's say you find yourself sitting in the interview chair. Your best bet is you did a month, you worked hard, we liked you etc.

You need to understand that the paperwork portion I have to judge you on is a huge pile of crap. Its a worthless 50 page file your school hands me that I don't have time to read, don't really understand, and in the end do not care about. For a few of the schools its so big its unreadable.

(a) I get your transcript. All the schools divide up the curriculum differently. If you didn't go to DMU - I don't know what the significance of all your stuff is. There's ridiculous grade inflation at a bunch of the schools so your GPA is entirely a question mark. A few years ago I think Western had bottom of the class students with like a 3.2-3.4. Higher is better, but personally if I cared about your grades I'd want your class rank.

(b) I get your letters of recommendation. Everyone is required to submit them. Everyone essentially uses the teachers from their school. If you went to my school I know you didn't do anything of significance 3rd year. The majority of the letters are irrelevant and cookie cutter crap. DMU was unfortunately almost entirely template driven. My program did a semi-academic interview - we put up straight-forward cases and said "tell us anything about this picture". I didn't do the Swedish scored interview, but it probably wasn't like that. We just wanted to hear you talk out loud confidently - show insight. Sadly, plenty of people really didn't know anything at all. So if I'm just meeting you for the first time - the impression you make counts for more than anything your teacher can say.

(c) Last of all, I get this at times enormous clinical packet with all these scores of no significance. I haven't looked at one in awhile, but jokingly its your diversity packet. Yes, the student scored well on empathy. Right... You know when you got your scores back from your clinic rotation and you wondered how would your future residency interviewer interpret it? He didn't read it.

All that aside - if I skimmed your packet, I was probably looking for a red mark. Here's your ultimate letter of recommendation screwup - you are a non-matched student from a prior year and your letter of rec is bad. "Dr. reapplicant has spent 4 months in my clinic. And that's it. Dr. Overseer." His praise isn't necessarily going to save you, but if he doesn't praise you I'm like - what the hell have you been doing. You are already in a rough spot.

 

[Scrantonicity]

Thank you both for the replies, great insight.

To be honest one of the main reasons I asked is because a lot of the stuff that goes on (as far as extracurriculars is concerned) in my school is just formalities; like meetings and events, etc. which most of the time is just to meet certain reqs. for a club to stay open for example or because they hold this event annually. Some of the times here and there they would advertise them as great CV boosters! I got caught up in them my first year but (I hope I don't sound arrogant when I say this) they lacked substance so I stopped participating and focusing more on school. I get the networking aspect, but a lot of times I felt like I was wasting my time.

Next year I'll be in clinics then figuring out where to extern and at that time if I keep this up I will have nothing on my CV to show for. My GPA should be fine, but basically I would have a blank 4 year Pod resume. I remember hearing when I was a first year, a 3rd year applying (to extern?) and was called back by one of the Drs. (not sure resident or attending) and asked further about his/her research. I've done research in undergrad successfully and If I were to do something outside school that I thought was worth shortening my time studying it would be that.

So, how do you apply for residencies or externships with an empty CV? Is research viewed favorably only in research oriented programs? If you participated in research during podiatry school, any insights/advice as to how to get involved, go about it, and timing?

Thank you for the feedback.

I dunno--just seems to me that you're putting a lot of significance on things that aren't going to matter at all. Just have a good GPA, be at or close to the top of your class, and be a friendly, confident person.

No one is expecting you to have a big, impressive CV. You are still in school--you haven't even gotten out into the real world yet, professionally speaking. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, cares about clubs. So don't worry about that.

Research is just about the only "extra" thing that MIGHT be valuable--and only if it is good, relevant, applicable (to the real world) research...some residency programs are heavy on research, and others don't care about it as much as they probably should. I honestly don't think it helped many of the people in my class that did research...

I personally had a boring, straightforward CV. No awards, no "honors", no research to speak of, and no clubs. I was not stressed about it. It really didn't matter. I had a decent GPA, and I felt pretty good about my externships. The externships really are the biggest and most important part of your application to these programs. Rock those, send a genuine (and short) thank you note to the directors of the programs you really liked visiting, and let that speak for you the loudest.

 

[Spotinho]

Great! Thank you!

Also, as an aside note....out of curiosity, when I interviewed at Kent State the students showing me around mentioned that because Kent had a bigger cap limit for class sizes that, that could be favorable when getting a residency. What they meant was you could potentially get to know more people (upperclassmen). In that example I guess it wouldn't really matter if the person was from Kent if you didn't know them, but I can see it if you knew the person and they had a great month and everyone liked VS. someone who also had a great month and everyone liked but you don't know.

Is there any merit to that statement made back when I interviewed pertaining to schools with more seats? Truly I'm just curious as to how the dynamics work when choosing someone being that the numbers of residents (and their year) and what school they are from vary greatly in each program. I believe there were some programs in the past that were exclusive for certain schools only, but I had heard that went away. Just checked the caspr/crip directory and that seems to be the case. It was once listed on the program pdf. sheet.

 

[air bud]

Is anyone else tired of 1st year pod students or potential lid students? Ugh, they are the worst

We were all there once too, and asked the same questions and had the same fears.

Be better than us and TRUST US NOBODY CARES get good grades and don't be a d-bag.

FIN

 

[Podstar]

As far as externship applications go, my CV is pretty plane. I am in a couple clubs, have gone to a few lecture series and workshops, no research aside from undergrad, a couple volunteer positions unrelated to podiatry that I do because I enjoy it, and no leadership positions. What I do have is a 3.7+ GPA, in the top 25% of the class, and took a good CV picture. I had no problem matching at all the externships I wanted.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Is anyone else tired of 1st year pod students or potential lid students? Ugh, they are the worst

We were all there once too, and asked the same questions and had the same fears.

Be better than us and TRUST US NOBODY CARES get good grades and don't be a d-bag.

FIN

Yeah and I hated the "big men" who belittled and acted superior to students. Seeing them now is hilarious, a lot of them got dog**** positions. But anyways that's my two cents.

 

[air bud]

Yeah and I hated the "big men" who belittled and acted superior to students. Seeing them now is hilarious, a lot of them got dog**** positions. But anyways that's my two cents.

Yeah f those guys

 

[Nowehjose]

As far as externship applications go, my CV is pretty plane. I am in a couple clubs, have gone to a few lecture series and workshops, no research aside from undergrad, a couple volunteer positions unrelated to podiatry that I do because I enjoy it, and no leadership positions. What I do have is a 3.7+ GPA, in the top 25% of the class, and took a good CV picture. I had no problem matching at all the externships I wanted.

I wrote my externship application in Spanish, so they know I’m useful.