Love Letters & Post-Interview Communications

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thoffen said:
Although I disagree with the assertion that only stupid programs care about it, there is a more relevant point embedded within your own. There are programs there that look at interest shown, so regardless of the validity in the program doing so, your statement supports the notion that doing a 2nd look for the purposes of demonstrating interest may help you. I do agree, though, that this is a bad (principle) reason to do a 2nd look.
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Well due to family constraints I really want to match here. Purpose of second look was for program to see my interned but I also wanted to see how floors and didactics run. It also allowed me to ask PD some very specific questions pertaining to my interests.
 
Psych747 said:
Well due to family constraints I really want to match here. Purpose of second look was for program to see my interned but I also wanted to see how floors and didactics run. It also allowed me to ask PD some very specific questions pertaining to my interests.
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Just like in relationships, revealing yourself as completely desperate is a huge turn off. You obviously determined what your #1 was going to be and admitted that the second look was to demonstrate interest to the PD guised as "asking questions to see if the program could meet my interests" Multiple PDs on the interview trail STRONGLY affirmed that the only reason to do a second look is to find out more about the program (with the implication being that you need to physically spend another day at the program in order to determine where it will end up on your rank list). Nevertheless, what's done is done, so I would refrain from contacting your #1 (or any other program for that matter) and just enjoy your fourth year.
 
HarryMTieboutMD said:
Just like in relationships, revealing yourself as completely desperate is a huge turn off. You obviously determined what your #1 was going to be and admitted that the second look was to demonstrate interest to the PD guised as "asking questions to see if the program could meet my interests" Multiple PDs on the interview trail STRONGLY affirmed that the only reason to do a second look is to find out more about the program (with the implication being that you need to physically spend another day at the program in order to determine where it will end up on your rank list). Nevertheless, what's done is done, so I would refrain from contacting your #1 (or any other program for that matter) and just enjoy your fourth year.
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That makes sense. And yes not showing "desperation" to program. Only time I contacted was to thank aftet interview and then to express #1 after second look.
 
Pursuitofsanity said:
So my friends and I were talking about post-match communications, and one of the things that came up was the fact that while we've all gotten some very positively worded emails from programs, its hard to say if they are saying the same thing to everyone that they interviewed.

I was thinking that it might be helpful to have a list of post-interview communications - something like if they contacted spontaneously or replied to an email you sent, and examples of wording. If people want to message me so that they stay anonymous, I am happy to do that. I just feel like it would be helpful to know if everyone is hearing the same things you are, or if they are actually as into me as I am into them. I'll put some stuff out there just to give examples:

Columbia: Spontaneous phone call from APD to see if I had questions and to say that they were "excited about my candidacy"

Harvard South Shore: Spontaneous email from PD saying that they think I would be a "great fit"

Do people think this would be helpful?
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No, I don't think so.

Here's my subjective experience.

With one exception, programs from which I got spontaneous communications that wasn't just platitudes were from were places 1) where I have a regional or institutional connection AND/OR 2) where I appear to be an above-average candidate based on the credentials of the current residents and others who interviewed alongside me.

In fact, a couple of the latter programs even sent me multiple times emails and handwritten notes from chief residents, the PD's, and faculty -- two even sent a holiday cards -- and at two others the PD asked me point-blank "what they need to say to get me to come here." I'm not sure if this is even allowed, and it made me feel rather uncomfortable, as the real answer was either "airlift this institution to a warmer climate" and/or "nothing, I am only here because I worry I won't pass step 2 cs and need a bunch of safeties."

Keep in mind this may just be a reflection of the fact that I'm not a rockstar candidate by SDN standards, but the bottom line is it does not seem that the love letters were going off any information they didn't already have prior to the interview in regards to my "fit," and might just be blatant attempts at marketing themselves to stronger candidates in an effort to raise their overall stats.

(To be honest, this is actually quite frustrating. It makes me think that the interview didn't really matter at all. Like, I really think it's true what they say -- the point of the interview is to verify that you have a pulse and can string together a sentence and don't throw any patients out the window during the facilities tour...)
 
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Pursuitofsanity said:
I would hope that was true for everyone. It would be true for me, my choices are my choices regardless of where I fall on their lists. However, my level of anxiety in facing the next 43 days 17 hours and 21 minutes, is somewhat influenced by the question of if what they are saying actually means anything.
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For perspective, you're a US senior, right? You'll probably match somewhere you like. In contrast, I've met IMG's on the interview trail, and they apply to >80 programs, feel lucky if they get invited to interview at 10, and sometimes have to do the process two or more times over. This is true of UW seniors in some specialties as well -- I have friends who are going into ENT, urology, and derm, and are looking at the very real chance of not matching or being happy that they matched at all.

I get the anxiety; I get the frustration at the opacity of this process. I get the fear of the disappointment you'll feel if you open your envelope on match day and don't see your dream program. But you'll go where you're sent, and you'll find that in the end you'll find that you make the program; the program doesn't necessarily make you.
 
lockian said:
For perspective, you're a US senior, right? You'll probably match somewhere you like. In contrast, I've met IMG's on the interview trail, and they apply to >80 programs, feel lucky if they get invited to interview at 10, and sometimes have to do the process two or more times over. This is true of UW seniors in some specialties as well -- I have friends who are going into ENT, urology, and derm, and are looking at the very real chance of not matching or being happy that they matched at all.

I get the anxiety; I get the frustration at the opacity of this process. I get the fear of the disappointment you'll feel if you open your envelope on match day and don't see your dream program. But you'll go where you're sent, and you'll find that in the end you'll find that you make the program; the program doesn't necessarily make you.
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Fair. I am, to be completely honest, not even a little bit worried about not matching at all. And I realize that even relative to other US Seniors in psychiatry I am in a very good place (Ph.D. in Neuro, multiple psych publications, several national awards, AOA nomination, H in all core clinical rotations, etc). I got interviews at all of the places I realistically wanted to consider, and I haven't ranked any places that I don't feel like my career will be just fine if I go there. From a purely professional perspective, I have only good choices, although some are clearly better than others.

That being said, the same is not true from a personal perspective. My husband is bound to a very small geographic area, and we have already lived apart for 3 years, and I want to be with him, and anywhere below the top few involves taking what I consider to be a painful hit in that area.

I'll be fine, and we'll be fine, with any of the choices on my list, but the uncertainty is hard, and only made harder by the fact that our 4th year away elective time together just ended, and I came back to my medical school city to worry alone for a while. The anxiety is all in my head, but given that it's an emotion, that doesn't really make it any better.
 
Pursuitofsanity said:
Fair. I am, to be completely honest, not even a little bit worried about not matching at all. And I realize that even relative to other US Seniors in psychiatry I am in a very good place (Ph.D. in Neuro, multiple psych publications, several national awards, AOA nomination, H in all core clinical rotations, etc). I got interviews at all of the places I realistically wanted to consider, and I haven't ranked any places that I don't feel like my career will be just fine if I go there. From a purely professional perspective, I have only good choices, although some are clearly better than others.

That being said, the same is not true from a personal perspective. My husband is bound to a very small geographic area, and we have already lived apart for 3 years, and I want to be with him, and anywhere below the top few involves taking what I consider to be a painful hit in that area.

I'll be fine, and we'll be fine, with any of the choices on my list, but the uncertainty is hard, and only made harder by the fact that our 4th year away elective time together just ended, and I came back to my medical school city to worry alone for a while. The anxiety is all in my head, but given that it's an emotion, that doesn't really make it any better.
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I see. I didn't know about the situation with your husband, and I'm sorry. In the face of that, my argument sounds like a "starving children in Africa" to someone with a food sensitivity, and I doubt that was very helpful. So I'm sorry for that as well.

It's really a frustrating and unfair thing, how this process tears apart families and complicates relationships. That said, it seems to me that you're a rockstar applicant, and even if the places where you're looking see large numbers of rockstar applicants, I've been told by numerous faculty involved in the process, both on SDN and in real life, that if you're a reasonably qualified applicant for the places where you're looking, you're quite likely to match in your top 3. Someone else a little while ago on here also posted the stats that showed that under 10% of students match at a choice that isn't in their top 3. At least it seems like you have more than one place that would work geographically; that's already better than banking on just one program.
 
lockian said:
I see. I didn't know about the situation with your husband, and I'm sorry. In the face of that, my argument sounds like a "starving children in Africa" to someone with a food sensitivity, and I doubt that was very helpful. So I'm sorry for that as well.

It's really a frustrating and unfair thing, how this process tears apart families and complicates relationships. That said, it seems to me that you're a rockstar applicant, and even if the places where you're looking see large numbers of rockstar applicants, I've been told by numerous faculty involved in the process, both on SDN and in real life, that if you're a reasonably qualified applicant for the places where you're looking, you're quite likely to match in your top 3. Someone else a little while ago on here also posted the stats that showed that under 10% of students match at a choice that isn't in their top 3. At least it seems like you have more than one place that would work geographically; that's already better than banking on just one program.
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Thanks lockian, this is super human of you. I saw you post about heart and head too. Good luck to you on that front. Not the same as residency, but I came to med school at a place with a somewhat similar thought process, and was not staying to the point that I didn't apply to my home program... So if you want to talk about what that was like, feel free to message me.
 
Anecdotally, Psych seems way more cagey about this kind of thing than other specialties.
 
eli20 said:
Anecdotally, Psych seems way more cagey about this kind of thing than other specialties.
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What do you mean?

--

I've been contacted by three programs. One was a PD telling me about a faculty member I might like to talk to. The other two were sorta generic "thanks for coming we really liked you" letters that I could imagine them sending to everyone.
 
Did either of those "generic we really liked you" letters mention anything specific from your application or interview day?
 
One of mine I think may be genuine based on my IV -
"It was really enjoyable to meet with you. I know everyone thought highly of you and I expect you will be strongly considered during our rank day."
 
The major communication that sticks out to me is one program which sent me a long letter summarizing the content of my interviews with faculty, expressing disappointment that the PD did not get to discuss a certain non-medical interest of mine with me, and generally outlining why they thought I would be a good fit with some specifics.

I have also had a couple of programs offer to make some calls or reach out to help my partner find work in an allied field, but I imagine these offers may be more standard and not as dependent on intending to rank the applicant highly.
 
splik said:
well i will concede one reason interest shown could be favorable is that the more desperate people are to work at a given hospital, the more subservient and exploitable they will be
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A concession by splik?!? 😱

Actually, as much as we counter each other on this forum I believe your views on psychiatry and mine asymptotically approach each other. Only, you're the inherent optimist that profusely indulges pessimism because you recognize it must exist, and I'm the inherent pessimist that defensively espouses optimism because I recognize it must exist.

Or maybe we're just a couple of jackarses...
 
lockian said:
For perspective, you're a US senior, right? You'll probably match somewhere you like. In contrast, I've met IMG's on the interview trail, and they apply to >80 programs, feel lucky if they get invited to interview at 10, and sometimes have to do the process two or more times over. This is true of UW seniors in some specialties as well -- I have friends who are going into ENT, urology, and derm, and are looking at the very real chance of not matching or being happy that they matched at all.

I get the anxiety; I get the frustration at the opacity of this process. I get the fear of the disappointment you'll feel if you open your envelope on match day and don't see your dream program. But you'll go where you're sent, and you'll find that in the end you'll find that you make the program; the program doesn't necessarily make you.
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10 interviews is more than plenty. Only neurotic people like you feel the need to interview at 25+ places in low-desired locations with zero diversity in geographic location.

There is an understandable anxiety and frustration with the process... but you should probably be a patient in psychiatry.
 
Everybody! Luvox, Klonopin, thumb to thumb, index to index, middle finger to middle finger and Hmmmmm. Everything will be OK. Snap a rubber band when your automatic thoughts say differently. That will be $20.
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
Everybody! Luvox, Klonopin, thumb to thumb, index to index, middle finger to middle finger and Hmmmmm. Everything will be OK. Snap a rubber band when your automatic thoughts say differently. That will be $20.
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Xanax and Adderall are the only things that work.
 
Wyvernrider said:
10 interviews is more than plenty. Only neurotic people like you feel the need to interview at 25+ places in low-desired locations with zero diversity in geographic location.

There is an understandable anxiety and frustration with the process... but you should probably be a patient in psychiatry.
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Hey. Only I'm allowed to call myself "neurotic."

Also,

1) It's not all "neurosis" -- it's also part not knowing how to make up my mind.

2) "Neurotic" is a pejorative term. I actually prefer "anxious," it's more neutral.

3) Observe the last item in my re-do list. Believe it or not, I'm working on it.
 
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I snail-mailed nicely written thank you notes to all my interviewers. I also sent out emails expressing my continued interest in the program, and updating them on my accomplishments since submitting my application. I also emailed my #1 program director to tell him they were my preferred choice. That's the extent of communication I would initiate. Anything else makes you look needy or desperate.

About half the programs I interviewed at sent me friendly emails or snail mail. They were generally vaguely worded, but expressed confidence in my abilities and their positive thoughts at the prospect of me matching at their program.

All these communications are platitudes, it didn't change my rank order one bit. I doubt anything you send to the program changes your position on their list either, except maybe to tell them they are your #1. PDs want happy residents, it is the greatest disaster for them to recruit someone who doesn't want to be there. Telling them they are your #1 virtually guarantees you'll at least show up in July with a positive attitude.

The letters are only a nice way to put a human touch on this whole crazy process. If they offered you an interview invite and you took it, then there is already mutual interest in having you train there. The interview is only to make sure you can at least act like the type of person who will fit in on the team.
 
I failed my CS the first time around and noticed that my #1 program states that applicants must pass step 1, step 2CK/CS on the first attempt. My friends are telling me that I should try to make an appointment and see the PD directly to talk about how my circumstances in my life at the time may have affected my CS and my desire to attend that residency. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or bad one. What do you guys think? I sent thank you emails after emails, but I don't know if this is pushing some kind of line. Thanks!
 
bbkl123 said:
I failed my CS the first time around and noticed that my #1 program states that applicants must pass step 1, step 2CK/CS on the first attempt. My friends are telling me that I should try to make an appointment and see the PD directly to talk about how my circumstances in my life at the time may have affected my CS and my desire to attend that residency. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or bad one. What do you guys think? I sent thank you emails after emails, but I don't know if this is pushing some kind of line. Thanks!
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If they interviewed you, and if you have subsequently passed, you should be fine without doing anything else.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
If they interviewed you, and if you have subsequently passed, you should be fine without doing anything else.
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Thanks for the reassurance. I hope it's as you say.
 
I've gotten "Good luck in the Match" from two people (one chief resident and one PD), which seems ominous to me. Kind of like the opposite of a love letter, like "We don't want you, but I hope someone does" Haha... I think I'm reading too much into things.
 
Rogue Penguin said:
I've gotten "Good luck in the Match" from two people (one chief resident and one PD), which seems ominous to me. Kind of like the opposite of a love letter, like "We don't want you, but I hope someone does" Haha... I think I'm reading too much into things.
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I wouldn't necessarily interpret it that way! It seems weird that people would put in effort to send negative communication lol.
 
Rogue Penguin said:
I've gotten "Good luck in the Match" from two people (one chief resident and one PD), which seems ominous to me. Kind of like the opposite of a love letter, like "We don't want you, but I hope someone does" Haha... I think I'm reading too much into things.
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I've gotten them as well. Only one out of the nine I interviewed at was a bit more mushy than the rest. Don't sweat it. Few more weeks to go!
 
Dharma said:
I've gotten them as well. Only one out of the nine I interviewed at was a bit more mushy than the rest. Don't sweat it. Few more weeks to go!
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Yeah, I'm more just laughing at my own paranoia. I'm excited to be near the end of this process. I'd be psyched to match at any of my top 7, so, love letters or no, hopefully it works out!
 
Rogue Penguin said:
I've gotten "Good luck in the Match" from two people (one chief resident and one PD), which seems ominous to me. Kind of like the opposite of a love letter, like "We don't want you, but I hope someone does" Haha... I think I'm reading too much into things.
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It's the PD Equivalent of "I'm ranking you highly".
Relax.
 
Rogue Penguin said:
Yeah, I'm more just laughing at my own paranoia. I'm excited to be near the end of this process. I'd be psyched to match at any of my top 7, so, love letters or no, hopefully it works out!
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I'd be shocked if you go below 3.
 
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