low gpa upward trend

[YummyOstrich]

When I saw the grade replacement news in December I decided to drop the prerequisite classes I had registered for this semester to focus on graduating this may and finding a job in public health. I have found no satisfaction in this and I'm still really passionate about a becoming a doctor but I am unsure if it'll ever happen because of my old grades.

I started my associates at a community college in 2012 and finished in 2014 with a 2.44 gpa. I mostly got C's and a few B's in my general education. I did not think these classes were important to my future because they weren't science classes. The only medically based science classes I took during that time were anatomy and physiology part 1 and 2. I cared about these classes but I just didn't know how to study and wasn't in a position to get help or use a study group because I lived an hour from the school. I got a D in part one and two, I retook part one and got a C. Later on I took part two again at my university and got a B. I really struggled with the material the first time around but I had a much easier time when I retook part two in the spring of 2016.

I transferred to a university and moved into a dorm. I really struggled with taking care of myself, dorm life, and being able to study. despite my efforts and all the stress and panic I failed miserably my first semester away from home. I failed a nursing chemistry class, got a D and a B in humanities classes. I had a 1.5 gpa and was put on academic probation. I felt like I had been treated unfairly for a number of reasons, a few of which were just excuses at the time, but I was determined to be successful because of it.

The following semester I was forced to take a learning strategies class. I got a lot out of the class and ended up with a 3.08 for the semester, which could have been much higher because I was less than 5 points from an A in two classes. I was more determined than ever and more informed on how to approach medical school so I switched my major from public health to biomedical science.

Fall 2015 I moved off campus because I thought it would help me be able to study quietly and have my own space (also cheaper and I could avoid mandatory church and dorm meetings that cut into my time). I had a hard time adjusting to the new commuting lifestyle and being able to eat without a meal plan so I spent a lot of time going back and forth. It got messy fast and my new major hit me a lot harder. I ended up with a D in biology (arguably the hardest class for the major) and a C, 10 points from a B, in Chem 1. I felt defeated with a 2.9 semester gpa and a 2.5 cumulative. I changed majors back to public health and wanted to focus on just graduating because it would take me several years to finish biomed if I kept repeating classes (D is not a passable grade at my university but it was in community college).

I came back the following semester and felt like I nailed it. I made the deans list (3.69gpa semester 2.9gpa cumulative) and was very close to an A in my repeat of anatomy and physiology 2. This was the best I had ever done in a science class and it really made me feel like I could be successful in attempting DO school. I was and still am passionate about medicine.

At the local community college that summer I took chem 2 and got a B and microbiology and got an A. I came back to university in the fall and got an A in the repeated biology class and made the deans list. I got a 3.7 gpa and it raised me to a 3.1 cumulative. Organic chemistry didn't fit my schedule because I had a public health class that was a prereq for graduating in May. I took ochem at the local community college and got an A in the lab and a B in lecture. This was my best semester yet and I was set to retake my failed nursing chemistry, and take ochem 2 and physics in the spring, until I got the grade replacement news in January. With all the uncertainty and possibly useless thousands of dollars and tons of time ahead of me I decided it would be smart to just finish my public health degree and see how things went for those who applied with the new grade replacement policy. I figured maybe the gpa averages would go down as a result.

Long story short, public health is boring and I don't think I could be satisfied with my life if I can't be a doctor. I have a 2.69 science gpa and a 2.68 non-science gpa. If I complete my physics, organic 2, and biochem with A's and B's and I nail the MCAT will this be seen as a good enough upward trend, or do I just sound helplessly bad at school? I have a year of public health research and a paper under review for publication. I am considering phlebotomy for clinical hours but it will take me a year from may to even get a license to do it.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the advice.

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[srhcustom]

I am passionate about automobile design, but alas, I am no automobile designer.
Let me be the first to give it to you straight. If, and this is a BIG "IF," you somehow manage to get accepted to any medical school, your undergrad performance shows that medical school would crush you and leave you with nothing to show for it other than a mountain of debt.
I'm not trying to be negative, just don't want to see someone ruin their life over a fantasy.

 

[YummyOstrich]

I am passionate about automobile design, but alas, I am no automobile designer.
Let me be the first to give it to you straight. If, and this is a BIG "IF," you somehow manage to get accepted to any medical school, your undergrad performance shows that medical school would crush you and leave you with nothing to show for it other than a mountain of debt.
I'm not trying to be negative, just don't want to see someone ruin their life over a fantasy.

I can respect an opinion. I hardly think it would "crush" me though. I'm very capable of learning effectively now and I'm not even finished with my prereqs. I'll make the deans list this semester as well, and all of my classes will added to my science gpa. Are you saying that I'm not going to be seen as trending upward after four full time semesters with mostly science classes, deans list each time, without a single C? Not to mention I have yet to take 15 prereq hours over the next year, which is an even further chance to prove myself.

 

[deleted729493]

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[YummyOstrich]

Unfortunately, I agree with the above poster.. I don't mean to be negative or hurtful to you, but not everyone is meant to become a doctor - even when we want to. Many people work very hard, and it doesn't happen for everyone. I think that you have an uphill battle with this, and with much time and determination you may succeed, should you put in the time.
Presently, I don't believe that you can do well given the circumstances. With medical school, you will be moving away and living in a new place with a new community (all barriers that you have previously mentioned) and you can't afford to do as poorly as you have previously. I see that you have struggled to do well academically with a variety of situations and those are all red flags to me.
I wish you well in your endeavors though! At the end of the day, we are just strangers on the internet to you. Do what you believe is best for yourself.

I do appreciate your honest input. I am simply weighing my options for moving forward. I'm also open to PA/NP and I have the opportunity to do an smp in the fall that guarantees an interview with completion.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

I think you still can achieve your goals of becoming a doctor. However, it's going to take a while for you to show medical schools that you got what it takes to handle it. With that being said keep increasing your gpa, crush the MCAT, and even do a SMP program.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You need to get the GPA up to 3.0. You're probably my looking at 2+ years of GPA repair.

Lol at the pre-meds telling another pre-med, "medical school will crush you." I see nothing here that says that will happen, you have begun to correct your learning mistakes and are moving forward, although I also see nothing that says you can handle medical school. That's what you will need to prove to adcoms.

tldr: you need 2+ years of grade repair and get the GPA above 3.0, and then do well on the MCAT. The question you have to ask yourself is, "is the time and effort necessary just to get into medical school worth it to me."

Also have a plan B.

 

[YummyOstrich]

I think you still can achieve your goals of becoming a doctor. However, it's going to take a while for you to show medical schools that you got what it takes to handle it. With that being said keep increasing your gpa, crush the MCAT, and even do a SMP program.

Thanks for your reply. I really think I can handle it. I wouldn't waste my time if I didn't think I could. Mostly I'm not wanting to spend money and time on the smp if it isn't going to help me or if just finishing my prereqs with A's and nailing the MCAT would be enough to get me there sooner and with less money spent. The smp is 39 hours and two years. most of the classes are taken with first year DO students. I would think that finishing the program with the required 3.5 would be enough to show my worth.

 

[YummyOstrich]

You need to get the GPA up to 3.0. You're probably my looking at 2+ years of GPA repair.

Lol at the pre-meds telling another pre-med, "medical school will crush you." I see nothing here that says that will happen, you have begun to correct your learning mistakes and are moving forward, although I also see nothing that says you can handle medical school. That's what you will need to prove to adcoms.

tldr: you need 2+ years of grade repair and get the GPA above 3.0, and then do well on the MCAT. The question you have to ask yourself is, "is the time and effort necessary just to get into medical school worth it to me."

Also have a plan B.

Thanks for the input. Someone with over 3,000 posts seems a little more reputable around here. I am considering a 39 hour 2 year smp with a guaranteed interview. I would think I could at least get into a PA program after it. I would also be ok with teaching future clinicians at the college level or working in clinical trials, both of which I would be able to do after the smp. Maybe this is the direction I should head in.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

Thanks for your reply. I really think I can handle it. I wouldn't waste my time if I didn't think I could. Mostly I'm not wanting to spend money and time on the smp if it isn't going to help me or if just finishing my prereqs with A's and nailing the MCAT would be enough to get me there sooner and with less money spent. The smp is 39 hours and two years. most of the classes are taken with first year DO students. I would think that finishing the program with the required 3.5 would be enough to show my worth.

An SMP isn't necessary at all but if you feel like your GPA isn't increasing by much and have the money and time then SMP would be great to show that you can handle medical school. Also, some programs are only a year long (I'm doing one next year hopefully). Good luck!

 

[JibsGuy52]

Not going to sugar coat it, you have a serious uphill battle ahead.

You need two things: to absolutely crush the MCAT and do some sort of SMP, post bac or something. These are risks in itself cause you don't crush these, you shoot yourself in the foot and you will not get into medical school, period.

Do not consider going Caribbean as well.

 

[CJhooper123]

Hard work and determination can accomplish anything! If medicine is your true passion, it's worth getting after. As AnatomyGrey said above, it wouldn't hurt to have a plan B.

 

[gamieg]

I skimmed your long story above, but it doesn't seem like you have had a lot of quarters or semester with intensive science coursework (which is what med school is). your 2+ years of intensive grade repair has to start off with acing your non-passing prereqs and any retakes, then lots of upper division science coursework to demonstrate your ability. you definitely have an uphill battle and very little room for error.

something that worries me is your mentioning that even with retakes, you were short of an A. that can't happen if you want to demonstrate your academic abilities, especially because right now the biggest question mark is "will this applicant be able to pass in med school?" if you don't alleviate the adcoms' fears about that question, they won't give you a shot at an interview.

I'd also recommend clinical exposure, especially shadowing to really know what you're getting into. make sure this is a road that's worth it for you because it'll be a long and tough road moving forward. you can also look into NP or PA, but those would also start off with grade repair. good luck.

 

[YummyOstrich]

An SMP isn't necessary at all but if you feel like your GPA isn't increasing by much and have the money and time then SMP would be great to show that you can handle medical school. Also, some programs are only a year long (I'm doing one next year hopefully). Good luck!

I think I like the smp because of the career possibilities it provides if I never make it to medical school. It will also possibly be free and I would get a stipend in that case. It will definitely be free after the first semester because my university employee benefits will kick in. I also would have the opportunity to just take more undergrad classes for free come January.

 

[YummyOstrich]

I skimmed your long story above, but it doesn't seem like you have had a lot of quarters or semester with intensive science coursework (which is what med school is). your 2+ years of intensive grade repair has to start off with acing your non-passing prereqs and any retakes, then lots of upper division science coursework to demonstrate your ability. you definitely have an uphill battle and very little room for error.

something that worries me is your mentioning that even with retakes, you were short of an A. that can't happen if you want to demonstrate your academic abilities, especially because right now the biggest question mark is "will this applicant be able to pass in med school?" if you don't alleviate the adcoms' fears about that question, they won't give you a shot at an interview.

I'd also recommend clinical exposure, especially shadowing to really know what you're getting into. make sure this is a road that's worth it for you because it'll be a long and tough road moving forward. you can also look into NP or PA, but those would also start off with grade repair. good luck.

I skimmed your long story above, but it doesn't seem like you have had a lot of quarters or semester with intensive science coursework (which is what med school is). your 2+ years of intensive grade repair has to start off with acing your non-passing prereqs and any retakes, then lots of upper division science coursework to demonstrate your ability. you definitely have an uphill battle and very little room for error.

something that worries me is your mentioning that even with retakes, you were short of an A. that can't happen if you want to demonstrate your academic abilities, especially because right now the biggest question mark is "will this applicant be able to pass in med school?" if you don't alleviate the adcoms' fears about that question, they won't give you a shot at an interview.

I'd also recommend clinical exposure, especially shadowing to really know what you're getting into. make sure this is a road that's worth it for you because it'll be a long and tough road moving forward. you can also look into NP or PA, but those would also start off with grade repair. good luck.

The smp may be my best option for intensity. PA does grade replacement and I am in a much better situation with that on my side, I just lack the clinical hours to apply and it would take much longer to get a certification and the hours I need than it would to get into medical school.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

After my first two years of college I had a ~1.9 cGPA. Now, six years later I have a 3.5 (and almost 200 credits ). You can do it! Just keep killin every class and get A's in everything you can. I am applying this cycle so who knows, I may not get it, but I haven't given up! You can definitely get your grades up to a competitive range or do an SMP as others have suggested. Don't let your current GPA talk you out of what you want, you can still turn it around IMO.

 

[Doctor or bust]

You'll need a high MCAT, As in the rest of your pre-reqs, and likely an SMP or something along those lines but it is possible in my opinion. Everybody loves an underdog story.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

PA does grade replacement

Just a note, PA does not do grade replacement.

 

[Xavieous]

Yeah, I agree with AnatomyGrey12 in that you can totally do it and it sounds like you already have learned from your past mistakes and are a whole new student who is capable of taking on difficult coursework. So, you will need to get above the 3.0 cutoff though, which will be difficult but not impossible. You can do it in any number of ways but you MUST find out how many credits of 4.0s will be required to get you there. That is your starting point. If you need 31 credits of 4.0s and take an SMP that is 30 credits, you are still not there. Also remember that graduate coursework is great and all, but it is more difficult and can often be more expensive. If you're not planning on using that masters degree it may be more beneficial for you to go back to undergraduate school and take what you need there, MAKE SURE you get all As, then sail smoothly into medical school once you get past the 3.0 cutoff and can tell everyone in personal statements and interviews about your 4.0 upward trend.

For a little motiviation I always look to this thread:

LOW GPA/MCAT Success Stories (Posts by Nontrads Already Accepted to Med School)

Good luck!

 

[YummyOstrich]

Just a note, PA does not do grade replacement.

After doing some research I can see that you're right. The school what stated this on their website has also since changed their policy on grade replacement.

 

[YummyOstrich]

Yeah, I agree with AnatomyGrey12 in that you can totally do it and it sounds like you already have learned from your past mistakes and are a whole new student who is capable of taking on difficult coursework. So, you will need to get above the 3.0 cutoff though, which will be difficult but not impossible. You can do it in any number of ways but you MUST find out how many credits of 4.0s will be required to get you there. That is your starting point. If you need 31 credits of 4.0s and take an SMP that is 30 credits, you are still not there. Also remember that graduate coursework is great and all, but it is more difficult and can often be more expensive. If you're not planning on using that masters degree it may be more beneficial for you to go back to undergraduate school and take what you need there, MAKE SURE you get all As, then sail smoothly into medical school once you get past the 3.0 cutoff and can tell everyone in personal statements and interviews about your 4.0 upward trend.

For a little motiviation I always look to this thread:

LOW GPA/MCAT Success Stories (Posts by Nontrads Already Accepted to Med School)

Good luck!

This seems like great advice. I'll have to wait for my end of semester grades to know for sure where I sit exactly gpa-wise. The smp lines up well with my other possible career goals. I'll be able to take classes for free starting in January, regardless what they are.

 

[123456ers]

When I saw the grade replacement news in December I decided to drop the prerequisite classes I had registered for this semester to focus on graduating this may and finding a job in public health. I have found no satisfaction in this and I'm still really passionate about a becoming a doctor but I am unsure if it'll ever happen because of my old grades.

I started my associates at a community college in 2012 and finished in 2014 with a 2.44 gpa. I mostly got C's and a few B's in my general education. I did not think these classes were important to my future because they weren't science classes. The only medically based science classes I took during that time were anatomy and physiology part 1 and 2. I cared about these classes but I just didn't know how to study and wasn't in a position to get help or use a study group because I lived an hour from the school. I got a D in part one and two, I retook part one and got a C. Later on I took part two again at my university and got a B. I really struggled with the material the first time around but I had a much easier time when I retook part two in the spring of 2016.

I transferred to a university and moved into a dorm. I really struggled with taking care of myself, dorm life, and being able to study. despite my efforts and all the stress and panic I failed miserably my first semester away from home. I failed a nursing chemistry class, got a D and a B in humanities classes. I had a 1.5 gpa and was put on academic probation. I felt like I had been treated unfairly for a number of reasons, a few of which were just excuses at the time, but I was determined to be successful because of it.

The following semester I was forced to take a learning strategies class. I got a lot out of the class and ended up with a 3.08 for the semester, which could have been much higher because I was less than 5 points from an A in two classes. I was more determined than ever and more informed on how to approach medical school so I switched my major from public health to biomedical science.

Fall 2015 I moved off campus because I thought it would help me be able to study quietly and have my own space (also cheaper and I could avoid mandatory church and dorm meetings that cut into my time). I had a hard time adjusting to the new commuting lifestyle and being able to eat without a meal plan so I spent a lot of time going back and forth. It got messy fast and my new major hit me a lot harder. I ended up with a D in biology (arguably the hardest class for the major) and a C, 10 points from a B, in Chem 1. I felt defeated with a 2.9 semester gpa and a 2.5 cumulative. I changed majors back to public health and wanted to focus on just graduating because it would take me several years to finish biomed if I kept repeating classes (D is not a passable grade at my university but it was in community college).

I came back the following semester and felt like I nailed it. I made the deans list (3.69gpa semester 2.9gpa cumulative) and was very close to an A in my repeat of anatomy and physiology 2. This was the best I had ever done in a science class and it really made me feel like I could be successful in attempting DO school. I was and still am passionate about medicine.

At the local community college that summer I took chem 2 and got a B and microbiology and got an A. I came back to university in the fall and got an A in the repeated biology class and made the deans list. I got a 3.7 gpa and it raised me to a 3.1 cumulative. Organic chemistry didn't fit my schedule because I had a public health class that was a prereq for graduating in May. I took ochem at the local community college and got an A in the lab and a B in lecture. This was my best semester yet and I was set to retake my failed nursing chemistry, and take ochem 2 and physics in the spring, until I got the grade replacement news in January. With all the uncertainty and possibly useless thousands of dollars and tons of time ahead of me I decided it would be smart to just finish my public health degree and see how things went for those who applied with the new grade replacement policy. I figured maybe the gpa averages would go down as a result.

Long story short, public health is boring and I don't think I could be satisfied with my life if I can't be a doctor. I have a 2.69 science gpa and a 2.68 non-science gpa. If I complete my physics, organic 2, and biochem with A's and B's and I nail the MCAT will this be seen as a good enough upward trend, or do I just sound helplessly bad at school? I have a year of public health research and a paper under review for publication. I am considering phlebotomy for clinical hours but it will take me a year from may to even get a license to do it.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the advice.

Honestly man I think you would have to finish your pre reqs with high marks (basically all As), do well on the MCAT, and follow this up with an SMP. It's not impossible but it will be pretty hard. I'm finishing up my last two pre reqs this semester and I have a significantly higher c and s GPA than you do and it's still stressful ensuring I get As in these subjects while working, while studying for MCAT, etc.

I'm just saying that from someone in a somewhat similar position (just with higher GPAs and more of the pre reqs done) that you should go into it knowing how challenging it can be. I'm so glad I chose to do this, but it's been a huge pain also and you need to ask yourself if its worth it.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

 

[futdoc251989]

To those of you saying that OP absolutely MUST bring his/her GPA above 3.0, you do realize that it's most likely mathematically IMPOSSIBLE for him/her to do that, right? Maybe @Goro can chime in on this. My stats are very similar to OP's. I'm finishing up an SMP right now with a 3.7 SMP GPA. But my undergrad GPA sucks, making my overall GPA and science GPA about 2.7. So even 1000 years wouldn't be enough time to bring that up to a 3.0.

 

[Goro]

I agree. there ARE MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. Hence, Op is advised to read the following:
Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement

To those of you saying that OP absolutely MUST bring his/her GPA above 3.0, you do realize that it's most likely mathematically IMPOSSIBLE for him/her to do that, right? Maybe @Goro can chime in on this. My stats are very similar to OP's. I'm finishing up an SMP right now with a 3.7 SMP GPA. But my undergrad GPA sucks, making my overall GPA and science GPA about 2.7. So even 1000 years wouldn't be enough time to bring that up to a 3.0.

 

[Xavieous]

I agree with "Goro's advice..." thread much more than the NaySaying of 'You're better off trying something else, since NOW you have no chance'. You still have a chance of getting into medical school and your determination is SO important! It will be the difference from giving up when things get hard and looking at other options, or just shrugging and continuing to plow forward towards your goal. I say 'towards' your goal as difficulties will arise as you are successfully progressing towards it. You can spin your wheels endlessly if you continue getting Cs, but I will assume that the wisdom you have gained with time will see that you will no longer make those mistakes that will put you in academic limbo. Some examples of those difficulties you can face while successfully pursuing your goals:

- 1 year deep into reinvention and you see other friends who found a path towards PA that makes them happy.
- 1.5 years deep and some of your friends are having kids and a life you want but may not have for a long time IF things continue to work out.
- 2 years and some of your friends you were paralleling in undergraduate school are now in medical school/in residency/ are now attendings (all depends on how long it's been since you were in undergraduate school ).

My point being you need to start with a plan that will lead you to success. Success in this instance begin getting above the 3.0 cutoff because that is a definite thing (been there, saw it, very painful and demoralizing). Then you need to stick to your plan, get the As required in classes that will look good when you are sitting in an interview 6 months, 1.5 years, 2.5 years...etc. from now.

StudentDoctor forum is truly a great place to find honest advice from people, but there will always be those who will discourage you from continuing your pursuit because of the difficulty that lies ahead. Anything is possible, but some stories are longer than others:

2.9 with 150 credits means add
4 credits, 4.0= 2.929
8 credit, 4.0=2.956
12 credits, 4.0= 2.981
16 credits, 4.0= 3.006

2.7 with 150 credits means add
4 credits, 4.0= 2.734
8 credit, 4.0=2.766
12 credits, 4.0= 2.796
16 credits, 4.0= 2.825
20 credits, 4.0= 2.853
24 credits, 4.0= 2.879
28 credits, 4.0= 2.904
32 credit, 4.0=2.929
36 credits, 4.0= 2.952
40 credits, 4.0= 2.974
44 credits, 4.0= 2.995
48 credits, 4.0= 3.015

My point is that reinvention is possible, getting above the 3.0 cutoff is possible, and the loss of grade replacement is not the end all as there are still paths to success. That is, if you create a plan for that success and stick to it! Get those As, push past the hard points in your plan, if you make mistakes that is ok, we are all human but fix them so they are less likely to happen again.

And for all those who may say it is impossible I say "shhhh, it's ok to disbelieve' but it is very possible.
I am a prime example as I got over 150 credits of A-Ds in undergraduate school but reinvented myself and gained alot of confidence in myself along the way.

 

[Xavieous]

Hmm, I seem to have double posted! Oops!