Low MCAT Med School Acceptance

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cats8888

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I wanted to post a word of encouragement on here for those of you who are pursuing acceptance to an allopathic medical school with a low MCAT. When I was applying, while very helpful, looking on student doctor always made me feel hopeless and that I would never get accepted. I had a 24 MCAT after taking it twice, however, I did have great research experience, leadership, letters of rec, and a 3.78 GPA. My first year I applied, I was wait listed at 3 schools. After no acceptance, I decided to pursue a one year master's degree in Pharmacology. During this year, I reapplied and received two acceptances. One of which was to my dream school. I know that my MCAT score held me back for acceptance to a few schools, but if you are the right fit for a school, your MCAT won't matter. I definitely think that my master's degree helped me to get accepted, but I also showed I was determined to succeed to matter the circumstances. Going through the application process once is stressful enough, but when you aren't accepted, the mental toll it takes on your confidence is great. If you have to go through this process more than once, don't give up. Keep on working hard, your determination and passion will show through in your interviews and application. If you feel like your stats are inadequate, it is still possible to get accepted. Do what you can to combat these negatives in other areas of your application. Don't let the other posters on here dampen your hope for fulfilling your dreams. You can get accepted with a low MCAT! Good luck to you all, and message me if you have any questions
 
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cats8888 said:
No
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Congrats on your success but you are only an n=1 exception with something great on your app. Your anecdote doesn't affect the data indicating poor successes in getting into an MD school with a low-20s score, URM or not. So i would be careful and avoid giving false hopes to people in your situation.
 
cats8888 said:
No
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What was the MCAT average for the school?

Did you have any personal connections to the school?

Did you have outstanding research or extracurriculars?
 
AAMC Table 25 says that applicants with a 3.78 and a 24 MCAT have a 24.6% chance of acceptance to at least one MD program. People like to conflate a 24.6% chance with a 0% chance- they'll tell you that there's no way you're getting in with a 24. The truth is, there were four people with the TC's stats and three of them got rejected this cycle. The TC probably brought some hefty ECs to the table: they may have a first-author publication in a good journal or did some seriously impressive volunteer work.

Also, I want to play whatever lotto Goro plays if the odds of winning the jackpot are one in four.
 
Doug Underhill said:
AAMC Table 25 says that applicants with a 3.78 and a 24 MCAT have a 24.6% chance of acceptance to at least one MD program. People like to conflate a 24.6% chance with a 0% chance- they'll tell you that there's no way you're getting in with a 24. The truth is, there were four people with the TC's stats and three of them got rejected this cycle. The TC probably brought some hefty ECs to the table: they may have a first-author publication in a good journal or did some seriously impressive volunteer work.

Also, I want to play whatever lotto Goro plays if the odds of winning the jackpot are one in four.
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I somewhat agree with you, but I would avoid misinterpreting the AAMC statistic (which appears greatly inflated).

mimelim said:
#3 https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstable25-4.pdf

If you take all 3600 Caucasian students that had a 3.60-3.79 PGA and a 27-29 MCAT, 45% of them got into a US MD school. DO NOT MISINTERPRET this statistic. This does NOT mean that you have a 45% chance of getting into medical school. It means that a good number of people with your statistics will get into medical school somewhere. The ones that do, a) applied smart and broad, b) had other things on their applications that made them superior to the others in the applicant pool.
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It's not "inflated". There were 3597 whites with that GPA and that MCAT, and 1618 got in. That's exactly in line with what I said. 45% got in, and 55% did not.

mimelim is saying that, strictly speaking, it's not a 45% chance to get in for you as an individual- you're not rolling a 20-sided die and 11 or higher gets you an acceptance, so to speak. This is true, but the name of the forum is "What Are My Chances", and there is no empirical way to determine what your individual chances are, so we use this heuristic of Table 25 to gauge our prospects. It has a lot more predictive power than random anecdotes about the guy with a 3.8 and a 40 who got rejected from everywhere so you should never ever apply with your 3.7/31, or the reverse anecdote where the guy with a 2.5/25 got in to the Harvard MSTP.
 
Doug Underhill said:
AAMC Table 25 says that applicants with a 3.78 and a 24 MCAT have a 24.6% chance of acceptance to at least one MD program. People like to conflate a 24.6% chance with a 0% chance- they'll tell you that there's no way you're getting in with a 24. The truth is, there were four people with the TC's stats and three of them got rejected this cycle. The TC probably brought some hefty ECs to the table: they may have a first-author publication in a good journal or did some seriously impressive volunteer work.

Also, I want to play whatever lotto Goro plays if the odds of winning the jackpot are one in four.
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Eh, regardless, applying with a 24 MCAT (or its equivalent) is not a good strategy for most applicants, including *URMs.

Edit:
*More specifically the ones who aren't aiming for the PR schools and the HBCs.
 
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Doug Underhill said:
It's not "inflated". There were 3597 whites with that GPA and that MCAT, and 1618 got in. That's exactly in line with what I said. 45% got in, and 55% did not.

mimelim is saying that, strictly speaking, it's not a 45% chance to get in for you as an individual- you're not rolling a 20-sided die and 11 or higher gets you an acceptance, so to speak. This is true, but the name of the forum is "What Are My Chances", and there is no empirical way to determine what your individual chances are, so we use this heuristic of Table 25 to gauge our prospects. It has a lot more predictive power than random anecdotes about the guy with a 3.8 and a 40 who got rejected from everywhere so you should never ever apply with your 3.7/31, or the reverse anecdote where the guy with a 2.5/25 got in to the Harvard MSTP.
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It's inflated in the sense that the low MCAT scorers got into favorable schools (with lower-than-normal MCAT averages), very IS-heavy state schools etc. It's not representative of the overall success, hence why the AAMC metric becomes unreliable in the extremely low ranges (very low GPA or very low MCAT).
 
That's why we ask for things like state of residence and ECs in the WAMC forum. The applicant may be one of those fortunate people (Texans, generally).
 
Doug Underhill said:
AAMC Table 25 says that applicants with a 3.78 and a 24 MCAT have a 24.6% chance of acceptance to at least one MD program. People like to conflate a 24.6% chance with a 0% chance- they'll tell you that there's no way you're getting in with a 24. The truth is, there were four people with the TC's stats and three of them got rejected this cycle. The TC probably brought some hefty ECs to the table: they may have a first-author publication in a good journal or did some seriously impressive volunteer work.

Also, I want to play whatever lotto Goro plays if the odds of winning the jackpot are one in four.
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I think that my biggest objection is the statement, "You have XYZ% chance of acceptance based on your scores." There are a couple dozen variables for getting into medical school and even if you take the two biggest ones (MCAT/GPA), there is going to be HUGE variation, especially those with lower scores. Personally, I think that people should talk about table 25 in a more precise fashion, ie. these are population statistics from the most recent data set and you can gauge general competitiveness from it.
 
Thank you for this Cats! These things do happen.

I hold Mimelim and Goro very highly, they know their stuff inside and outside.

As a non-trad with a sub-par MCAT who has worked in healthcare for a while I can say that some of the best practitoners I have worked with are people that do neccissarly "fit the bill". After this cycle I cannot wait to make one of these threads for others to read!
 
Legacies
Outstanding ECs (like 1000s of hrs of volunteer service)
Compelling life stories
Lucky states
Veterans

It happens, but this is still 1618 out of the 40-50000 apps. These also can't be compared to the aggregate of all US medical students.
U Cincy looks like a "lucky" school for Buckeyes; you have a ~9% chance of matriculating! Given the number of accepts: matriculants, I'd thus estimate that if you're a Buckeye and have a pulse, then your odds of getting into UC is closer to 1/5.

Sometimes we interviewers are so taken by an applicant that we'll go tot the wall for them in Adcom meetings. I've been willing to take a rick on risky applicants plenty of times.

Moral of the story, while it's not impossible, there had better be something damned good in that app to offset a MCAT of 24.

Doug Underhill said:
It's not "inflated". There were 3597 whites with that GPA and that MCAT, and 1618 got in. That's exactly in line with what I said. 45% got in, and 55% did not.

mimelim is saying that, strictly speaking, it's not a 45% chance to get in for you as an individual- you're not rolling a 20-sided die and 11 or higher gets you an acceptance, so to speak. This is true, but the name of the forum is "What Are My Chances", and there is no empirical way to determine what your individual chances are, so we use this heuristic of Table 25 to gauge our prospects. It has a lot more predictive power than random anecdotes about the guy with a 3.8 and a 40 who got rejected from everywhere so you should never ever apply with your 3.7/31, or the reverse anecdote where the guy with a 2.5/25 got in to the Harvard MSTP.
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Are you referring to MD schools with the 24 mcat comment?

There have been many students who have gotten into DO schools with a 24 MCAT, more so at the newer schools. Even on many schools website, they claim an MCAT of 24 is where competitiveness starts.

Goro said:
Legacies
Outstanding ECs (like 1000s of hrs of volunteer service)
Compelling life stories
Lucky states
Veterans

It happens, but this is still 1618 out of the 40-50000 apps. These also can't be compared to the aggregate of all US medical students.
U Cincy looks like a "lucky" school for Buckeyes; you have a ~9% chance of matriculating! Given the number of accepts: matriculants, I'd thus estimate that if you're a Buckeye and have a pulse, then your odds of getting into UC is closer to 1/5.

Sometimes we interviewers are so taken by an applicant that we'll go tot the wall for them in Adcom meetings. I've been willing to take a rick on risky applicants plenty of times.

Moral of the story, while it's not impossible, there had better be something damned good in that app to offset a MCAT of 24.
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Average MCAT 29.7. BCPM GPA 3.57 Average GPA: 3.61.

Allopathic school NOT in Texas.
 
GypsyHummus said:
Are you referring to MD schools with the 24 mcat comment?

There have been many students who have gotten into DO schools with a 24 MCAT, more so at the newer schools. Even on many schools website, they claim an MCAT of 24 is where competitiveness starts.
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The topic of the thread is strictly referring to MD schools.

cats8888 said:
Average MCAT 29.7. BCPM GPA 3.57 Average GPA: 3.61.

Allopathic school NOT in Texas.
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cats8888 said:
I had a 24 MCAT after taking it twice, however, I did have great research experience, leadership, letters of rec, and a 3.78 GPA.
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Could you clarify?
 
cats8888 said:
Average MCAT 29.7. BCPM GPA 3.57 Average GPA: 3.61.

Allopathic school NOT in Texas.
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Ah...East Tennessee State has absolutely massive instate favoritism, you're in MD because you had a very lucky state of residence. Unless your other acceptance was not UT or a mission-based place you fit? If you're going to make posts like this you need to upfront list things like state of residence, URM status, where you got in etc. It helps nobody for you to advise MD to the many Californians and New Englanders with mid 20's MCATs.
 
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efle said:
Ah...East Tennessee State has absolutely massive instate favoritism, you're in MD because you had a very lucky state of residence. If you're going to make posts like this you need to upfront list things like state of residence, URM status etc. It helps nobody for you to advise MD to the many Californians and New Englanders with mid 20's MCATs.
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Such are the anecdotes. I'm more curious how the average MCAT was a 29.7.
 
efle said:
He added the averages of each section which were 9.3 9.4 10. The range according to MSAR was 26-33, median 30.
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Oh, he's referring to national averages. That only reinforces the point, since a 24 is significantly worse than a 29.7, which means something went on additionally (since ECs can't compensate low stats). Such are the benefits of living in a lucky state.
 
I would seriously doubt my own ability to succeed in medical school if I could not score above 24 on the MCAT
 
gyngyn said:
Only 22.6% IS matriculation.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf
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This seems like a bad way to assess public school accessibility, since its confounded by differing average app quality per state (how accessible private alternatives are), different preferences to stay in state per state, etc.

Utah for example has a mere 13% matriculating in-state but U of Utah is very instate friendly (interviewing 71% of instate applicants) and extremely accessible in terms of stats. Seems like one really needs to browse the MSAR to get an idea of whether their state is "lucky".
 
efle said:
Seems like one really needs to browse the MSAR to get an idea of whether their state is "lucky".
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Of course. IS matriculation is only one of several factors, but an important one along with median stats at IS schools.
Even CA is lucky for the 870/5,920 that matriculate!
 
Goro said:
Yes.

others include TX, LA, KS, NE, MO, OH, IA, IL, IN, GA, AL, WA

List is by no means exhaustive.

Offhand, CA and MD are not lucky for residents.
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Would you add MS to that list? Only 1 MD school, but there are ~350 applicants for 145 - 160 seats a year.
 
^ And my personal favorite stat, % of instate applicants receiving interview: 63%!
 
How would you guys rate NY? There are a ton of schools, but most have relatively high median MCAT scores ~ 33 (except maybe NYMC and Albany)
 
Iridescent said:
How would you guys rate NY? There are a ton of schools, but most have relatively high median MCAT scores ~ 33 (except maybe NYMC and Albany)
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29% of IS New Yorkers matriculate IS. 15.9% go OOS. 55.1% don't get in. With a wide range of schools that's not too bad (compared to CA).
 
gyngyn said:
29% of IS New Yorkers matriculate IS. 15.9% go OOS. 55.1% don't get in. With a wide range of schools that's not too bad (compared to CA).
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Thank you! This question may not have an answer, but why do you think the public schools in CA became super competitive, whereas NY public schools are pretty average?
 
Iridescent said:
Thank you! This question may not have an answer, but why do you think the public schools in CA became super competitive, whereas NY public schools are pretty average?
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The UC system is the envy of the nation. Our current governor's father made sure of that. We produce thousands of extraordinary undergraduate candidates. We have public medical schools that are better than most state's private schools and our private schools (until Northstate) are also quite remarkable.
 
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gyngyn said:
The UC system is the envy of the nation. Our current governor's father made sure of that. We produce thousands of extraordinary undergraduate candidates. We have public medical schools that are better than most state's private schools and our private schools (until Northstate) are also quite remarkable.
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On top of the UC system, CA also has the CSU system that produces some pretty good candidates. I know of one CSU that produces a lot of really good undergrad and post-bacc candidates that get into really good medical schools (Harvard, UCLA, Tufts, UCR, UCSF, ...).
 
Iridescent said:
How would you guys rate NY? There are a ton of schools, but most have relatively high median MCAT scores ~ 33 (except maybe NYMC and Albany)
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I wish we had less competitive schools. We have 13 medical schools but they include some of the most competitive institutions in the country (Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, NYU…).
 
sephora89 said:
I wish we had less competitive schools. We have 13 medical schools but they include some of the most competitive institutions in the country (Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, NYU…).
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By no means do we have it easy, but it's nice that we have the 4 SUNYS with Albany and NYMC.

There's just a lot of schools relative to most other states.
 
Iridescent said:
By no means do we have it easy, but it's nice that we have the 4 SUNYS with Albany and NYMC.

There's just a lot of schools relative to most other states.
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Albany and NYMC are private so it's really just the 4 SUNYs!
 
gyngyn said:
Sadly, the CSU's despite the size of enrollment usually produce 30+ pre-med applicants or less each per year.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html
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I just checked the tables and CSU Fullerton and CSU Northridge combined to matriculate 20+ Hispanic students; they had many more applicants, and this was for Hispanics only. The problem with the tables is that they only show the top 100 or so institutions that matriculated people from each race. The CSU's did not even show up on the tables for Asian or whites because they did not matriculate 30-50+ students that were only white or Asian. I am not quite sure where the 30+ or less applicants per year came from, as our CSU has been very successful and has was more than 30 applicants each year.

My CSU has an over 80% success rate for students that get the committee letter. Last year, we had 14 students get accepted through the traditional acceptance process and who received the committee letter of rec, and this does not even include the students who did not seek the committee letter from the office. We also have linkages to medical schools, and we have at least 2 people per year get a guaranteed acceptance to medical school this way as well.
 
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