"Low Ranked" MD school vs. "Top Ranked" DO school

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jetsfan1234

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A friend claims that it's better to attend a top DO school over a lower-ranked MD school, for the purposes of getting a good residency. He says that the best DO schools are more prestigious than the low ranked MD schools, and residency directors will take the kid from the DO school, all else being equal. Curious to hear what SDNers think about this.
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jetsfan1234 said:
A friend claims that it's better to attend a top DO school over a lower-ranked MD school, for the purposes of getting a good residency. He says that the best DO schools are more prestigious than the low ranked MD schools, and residency directors will take the kid from the DO school, all else being equal. Curious to hear what SDNers think about this.
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MD vs. DO? U serious bro?
 
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I'm going to take a wild guess here: your friend is a first or second year student at a DO school?

I remember reading all of this propaganda when applying to med school talking about how DOs and MDs are essentially the same and are respected as such in practice. As you approach and apply for residency, you learn this isn't really the case at all. DOs are widely looked down upon in the academic community (which does have a reputation of inherent snobbishness when it comes to pedigree) and have worse chances at residency due to their reputation for producing graduates that can't write basic soap notes. I hear the term used disparagingly everyday "that DO school," "oh you mean that DO guy," "that residency is usually full of DOs and international grads," etc. Yes, there are the exceptions of the DO students with a 250 step 1 who prove themselves and match into ultra competitive specialties. But any MD grad from a lesser known regional school is going to be more competitive than the top DO grad. I can name a list of top MD schools. I have no idea what DO rankings are and if somebody asked me to name a top DO school, I'd shrug my shoulders.

Bottom line: unless you are 100% sure you want to do primary care, go to the most well respected you can get into at all costs (expense, location, fit, etc.). If you get into harvard and perform mediocre with a low usmle and no honors, you can still match pretty much anything.
 
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TreadLightly said:
Thank god, I thought those URMs were actually getting into Harvard with a 30 on the MCAT!



🙁 Maybe I'll just shoot for CRNA instead. They must be more respected right?

Doesn't matter; cash money
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EC machine. Whaddap tho...:meanie:
 
TreadLightly said:
He's probably right to a certain extent. Certainly, lower scores from Harvard will be forgiven more easily than lower scores from a low-tier MD, regardless of whether or not they should be.

That's just how it works.
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Read what he said carefully. A person at Harvard....with a 190-210 USMLE score (low) can still match into pretty much anything (including ROADs, cards, CT, neuro)...

Even though your boards are only a part of the application and your school name does matter, forgive me if I still find his claim hard to believe. School name can't be that powerful that it can carry a mediocre/sub-mediocre med student all the way to the top.
 
Aerus said:
Read what he said carefully. A person at Harvard....with a 190-210 USMLE score (low) can still match into pretty much anything (including ROADs, cards, CT, neuro)...

Even though your boards are only a part of the application and your school name does matter, forgive me if I still find his claim hard to believe. School name can't be that powerful that it can carry a mediocre/sub-mediocre med student all the way to the top.
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I'm not buying it either. People that say these things are typically ignorant to medicine. Can the Harvard name get you some leeway in programs? Yes. Can it overcome your 185 and match you into derm? No way.
 
Aerus said:
Read what he said carefully. A person at Harvard....with a 190-210 USMLE score (low) can still match into pretty much anything (including ROADs, cards, CT, neuro)...

Even though your boards are only a part of the application and your school name does matter, forgive me if I still find his claim hard to believe. School name can't be that powerful that it can carry a mediocre/sub-mediocre med student all the way to the top.
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hyperbole
 
TriagePreMed said:
I'm not buying it either. People that say these things are typically ignorant to medicine. Can the Harvard name get you some leeway in programs? Yes. Can it overcome your 185 and match you into derm? No way.
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185 was a failing score this year. So, no.
 
What is a low tier MD school, anyway? I keep hearing about them, but nobody seems to know of one or attend one.
 
sazerac said:
What is a low tier MD school, anyway? I keep hearing about them, but nobody seems to know of one or attend one.
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In another thread, I believe someone referred to Rosalind Franklin as a "lower-tier" MD school. I don't really know. I'd assume any school that is or recently has been on some kind of LCME probation would probably be considered "lower-tier", but I'm really just guessing.

At the end of the day, my understanding is you'll get a fantastic education pretty much wherever you go.
 
BlueLabel said:
In another thread, I believe someone referred to Rosalind Franklin as a "lower-tier" MD school. I don't really know. I'd assume any school that is or recently has been on some kind of LCME probation would probably be considered "lower-tier", but I'm really just guessing.

At the end of the day, my understanding is you'll get a fantastic education pretty much wherever you go.
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So George Washington University and University of Texas San Antonio are low-tier medical schools?
 
sazerac said:
University of Texas San Antonio is a low-tier medical school?
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I wouldn't say so. If you look at the nature of their probation I don't think it reflects that negatively on the quality of their medical education. Furthermore, they used that event as an opportunity to revamp their curriculum, and I understand that currently it is pretty impressive.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...nio-s-medical-school-on-probation-2222609.php

"It is important to note the LCME findings are not based on deficiencies in the quality of the students or their learning achievements at one of the nation's leading comprehensive academic health science centers"

I don't know anything about George Washington. What do you think?
 
sazerac said:
So George Washington University and University of Texas San Antonio are low-tier medical schools?
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Namedropping schools off the top of my head, some of which I've applied to: George Washington, Rosalind Franklin, The Commonwealth Medical College, Drexel, Temple, Quinnipiac, NYMC, Penn State, Eastern Virginia, Medical College of Wisconsin, Cooper of Rowan, Indiana University, etc.
 
TreadLightly said:
He's probably right to a certain extent. Certainly, lower scores from Harvard will be forgiven more easily than lower scores from a low-tier MD, regardless of whether or not they should be.

That's just how it works.
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Well, low being a relative term. By low I don't mean 1 point above passing, but more like a 220 or something "low" for harvard. A 220 Harvard applicant can probably still match into the ultra competitive fields with enough legwork. The name of a top school will prop you up to a certain extent, whether it's right or not. The school isn't known for taking intellectual weaklings and will soften the blow of low scores or grades. A low usmle combined with a DO school are two compelling pieces of evidence that either you are lazy or not as gifted as the rest of the applicant pool. I don't think it's about being forgiven. A 220 is a solid score and by itself doesn't mean there are some fields you can't handle (whereas a 187 might), and programs know that. It's just that it doesn't stand out, and you need something to stand out. Whether it's a killer step1 and step 2, a top 10 med school, AOA status, a PhD with first author pubs, etc. By choosing the high ranked med school (if you have the option), you've already given yourself something to stand out on your residency application on the very first day you set foot in med school, way before you even begin thinking about boards, research projects, and clinical rotations.
 
Aerus said:
Read what he said carefully. A person at Harvard....with a 190-210 USMLE score (low) can still match into pretty much anything (including ROADs, cards, CT, neuro)...

Even though your boards are only a part of the application and your school name does matter, forgive me if I still find his claim hard to believe. School name can't be that powerful that it can carry a mediocre/sub-mediocre med student all the way to the top.
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Like I said, I used the term 'low' relatively and didn't mean scores that low. But people in the 200-210 range do match into everything including, plastics, derm, rad onc, ortho, etc. Check the outcomes from the match. There is no way of knowing this for sure, but I would wager heavily on those successful matches being mostly from more well-known schools.
 
People on this forum are SO SCARED of tiers. Yes, some schools are better than others. Come on, you honestly think you will have the resources at a top tier school versus and low tier school? I am talking about research opportunities, financial aid, facilities, curricular advancement etc. ANYONE that has applied to medical schools understands where I am coming from.

DO schools ARE NOT universally worse than MD schools. Period.

The reason why most DO schools are low tier is due primary to their lack of LONG affiliations with state and private academic medical centers. Most state medical schools are MD and the culture in the US is MD so DOs just lose out there. For poor and disadvantaged applicants DO is out of reach because almost all DOs are private... DO schools not being attached to most states limits their prestige. DO schools like Michigan State are on par with any MD school because they are attached to a strong state school with resources (fin aid, research, clinical opp) to make the school competitive.

People need to understand and think logically here.

Number 1: Schools are low tier or high tier based upon clinical opportunities, financial aid, research opportunities etc.

Number 2: DO programs are not low tier per se: they fall victim to location, poorer applicant pool, and minimal state support.
 
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In 50 years once DO schools have established themselves and made their own reputations things will change.
 
My family doctor is a DO. The three surgeons I shadowed, one who was chief and professor of Orthopaedic surgery at the hospital, were all DOs.

If you can get into an MD school, then great. If you can't, look into DO school. Then try Caribbean/foreign schools.

The road is harder through DO because people have preconceived ideas and are arrogant, which is present in all professions. But if you want to be a doctor, then MD or DO, it doesn't matter.

I have a friend who didn't get into any MD schools and refused to apply to DO. He is changing his career to pharmacy. I find it ridiculous how some people refuse to apply to DO schools because they are too pretentious and rather have a MD after their name.

If you are pursuing a DO degree and want to do a competitive speciality like plastics, then study hard and take both the COMLEX and USMLE and kill them both. There are plenty of other factors to consider when applying for residencies.

GL.

tldr: If you want to practice medicine, then it doesn't matter. You'll have a job either way.
 
dbeast said:
Watch your mouth, Pestana teachers there. And he'll come after you.
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Well his institution is still on LCME probation, along with Marshall (West Virginia) and San Juan Bautista (Puerto Rico).
 
circulus vitios said:
Namedropping schools off the top of my head, some of which I've applied to: George Washington, Rosalind Franklin, The Commonwealth Medical College, Drexel, Temple, Quinnipiac, NYMC, Penn State, Eastern Virginia, Medical College of Wisconsin, Cooper of Rowan, Indiana University, etc.
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Umm.... your definition of "low-tier" is a bit, shall I say, "funny." MCW (a school consistently vying for a place in the "Top 40") on that list? And GW (usually top 50-60 IIRC)? Sure, Drexel, EVMS, and Commonwealth Medical aren't exactly top tier, but I probably wouldn't consider most of those bottom-feeders.
 
music2doc said:
Umm.... your definition of "low-tier" is a bit, shall I say, "funny." MCW (a school consistently vying for a place in the "Top 40") on that list? And GW (usually top 50-60 IIRC)? Sure, Drexel, EVMS, and Commonwealth Medical aren't exactly top tier, but I probably wouldn't consider most of those bottom-feeders.
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GWU is 3.7/30 median stats for accepted students. Their research spending must prop up their ranking because it sure isn't their stats.

MCW, you're probably right.
 
circulus vitios said:
GWU is 3.7/30 median stats for accepted students. Their research spending must prop up their ranking because it sure isn't their stats.

MCW, you're probably right.
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Stats really aren't everything. Honestly, if anything, a school with lower numbers but a better "ranking" would be a better school (i.e., it's able to achieve more with "less" and/or is more effective at finding top talent on the less objective measures).

GWU certainly isn't a school I consider top-tier but they are a solid mid-tier program. MCW is probably upper-mid tier as they tend to lie in the 40s on rank and really could push into the top 40 if one of the current occupants had a bad year.
 
MD of any kind (from US) > DO
 
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