Low tier programs

[BlueElmo]

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Hey guys, currently applying to anesthesiology this year, but my stats are pretty poor. What are the low tier programs? I keep seeing the term "low-tier" here but there doesn't seem to be a list anywhere. Please help?

 

[gasthrowaway]

nobody is really going to be able to make a list for you, you kinda have to do your own research. some places are obvious (harvard, yale, upenn, etc...) but places on the fringe you can search sdn/scutwork for reviews about programs.

go down the freida list and look up their websites, they can usually help give you a feel. look at current residents. a couple imgs/dos per class doesnt mean anything, but if half a class or above is made up of DOs or IMGs then that could be a indicator of not being the best program.

edit: at this point you should have already applied, however, so isnt it kinda pointless to worry about it now?

 

[chessknt]

This isn't medical school applications anymore where there are easy to measure aggregated stats publicly available. Nobody is going to say their program is bad and very few will actually be able to say bad vs. not bad without having been in multiple learning environments for extended periods of time. Think about it dude--would take a dump on your pedigree or sabotage your residency for a random internet stranger?

If you are looking for places to apply for that have long match lists look for geographically challenged places (less popular cities or states) or places who names arent as recognizable to you. You could also look at programs that historically have had scramble/SOAP spots.

 

[BlueElmo]

nobody is really going to be able to make a list for you, you kinda have to do your own research. some places are obvious (harvard, yale, upenn, etc...) but places on the fringe you can search sdn/scutwork for reviews about programs.

go down the freida list and look up their websites, they can usually help give you a feel. look at current residents. a couple imgs/dos per class doesnt mean anything, but if half a class or above is made up of DOs or IMGs then that could be a indicator of not being the best program.

edit: at this point you should have already applied, however, so isnt it kinda pointless to worry about it now?

I haven't applied yet, some issues with my transcript and letters being held, still waiting for them to come out. Being a little late, like submitting early October, would that affect me much?

 

[rakotomazoto]

I haven't applied yet, some issues with my transcript and letters being held, still waiting for them to come out. Being a little late, like submitting early October, would that affect me much?

I submitted right away on Sep 15th, still haven't heard a peep out of most of my programs. Just get everything in as soon as it is ready, you should be fine. Nobody's dean letters have gone out yet anyways, so technically no one has a complete application. On the other hand, I do have 3 scheduled interviews so far, probably because I hit submit right away and ended up on the top of the stack. And my numbers are middle of the road, nothing amazing.

Best of luck with applications! Besides freida, check out the interview feedback on this website and some programs have recent reviews on scutwork.com. As with all internet information, take it with a huge grain of salt, but it may help you figure out which programs might be a good fit for you.

 

[Iamnotme]

I submitted right away on Sep 15th, still haven't heard a peep out of most of my programs. Just get everything in as soon as it is ready, you should be fine. Nobody's dean letters have gone out yet anyways, so technically no one has a complete application. On the other hand, I do have 3 scheduled interviews so far, probably because I hit submit right away and ended up on the top of the stack. And my numbers are middle of the road, nothing amazing.

Best of luck with applications! Besides freida, check out the interview feedback on this website and some programs have recent reviews on scutwork.com. As with all internet information, take it with a huge grain of salt, but it may help you figure out which programs might be a good fit for you.

I think you are absolutely right about the fact that most programs haven't done anything yet. I submitted on the 15th to a different specialty but did not have my stuff entirely complete until a few days later and when I called numerous programs told me that my stuff was not in the reviewed pile yet. Some programs iwll actually print out your stuff and put it on the PD's desk and you can get an answer quicker that way-I did this and shortly after got an IV.

Submitting early can get a few programs to give out IVs but ultimately submitting a little later is not the end of the world. Many people will cancel IVs and programs will likely offer those spots to others.

 

[foodle]

1) Get your application stuff in as soon as you can. You can apply to programs before all your letters are in. Just remember to add them later. Our PD told us that he only has 150-200 interview slots to give out, and once he's done that, it's over. On the first day, he's got 500-1000 applications submitted (some incomplete). So the sooner you get your stuff looked at, the better.

2) You should also be sure to apply to programs in less desirable locations. Most big cities and east/west coast are heavily sought after, but locations in the middle of the country or more rural areas are not.

3) As mentioned before, look at the current residents in the program. If their school is on par with yours (or worse) or if there are a lot of FMG/IMGs and DOs, then they might be a good target. Like in the other thread, this is not meant as an offense to any FMG/IMG/DO graduate, as many of them are excellent students/physicians, but there is a prejudice in admissions for USMG students.

 

[BlueElmo]

Is it in your best interest to apply to both advanced and categorical tracks in a program if you want to maximize your chances? I really want to avoid advanced to avoid the hassel of applying for prelim programs.
And I hope I don't sound like an idiot, but how do I go about applying to prelim programs? Is it through the same ERAS?

 

[step213]

Is it in your best interest to apply to both advanced and categorical tracks in a program if you want to maximize your chances? I really want to avoid advanced to avoid the hassel of applying for prelim programs.
And I hope I don't sound like an idiot, but how do I go about applying to prelim programs? Is it through the same ERAS?

You really should apply both adv and cat - apply for prelims by choosing what specialty (medicine, TY or surg) on eras then select the prelim option - obviously don't click categorical.... Good luck

 

[vigocarpathian]

any chance i can get an interview at UTH or baylor with a 204 step 1 and 242 step 2? will an away help? top 40 med school, out of state.. from houston..

 

[gasthrowaway]

any chance i can get an interview at UTH or baylor with a 204 step 1 and 242 step 2? will an away help? top 40 med school, out of state.. from houston..

freida lists UTH's step 1 cut-off at 220. Nobody is sure exactly how accurate that info is though, so take it with a grain of salt.

if youve already taken step 2 I assume youre a 4th year, correct? I think an away rotation would help a lot, and potentially bypass a step cut-off, but its a little late to do an away right?

 

[vigocarpathian]

freida lists UTH's step 1 cut-off at 220. Nobody is sure exactly how accurate that info is though, so take it with a grain of salt.

if youve already taken step 2 I assume youre a 4th year, correct? I think an away rotation would help a lot, and potentially bypass a step cut-off, but its a little late to do an away right?

thanks for the response, definitely saw that on freida.. Havent taken step 2.. but have been studying super hard... post step 1...and took 2 NMBEs for ck and 242 is the average.. i dont plan on taking the real thing until the end of july next year.. im a third yr btw..

 

[gasthrowaway]

thanks for the response, definitely saw that on freida.. Havent taken step 2.. but have been studying super hard... post step 1...and took 2 NMBEs for ck and 242 is the average.. i dont plan on taking the real thing until the end of july next year.. im a third yr btw..

ah, yeah then youve got lots of time. use VSAS to set up aways at each institution and set up an exit interview with the PD at the end of the rotations. You'll have your step 2 score by then, which hopefully you'll do well on. At that point you could explain that the low step 1 score was an outlier and express your profound interest in returning to your home town. I doubt you'd have any issues getting an interview.

 

[bobow98]

nobody is really going to be able to make a list for you, you kinda have to do your own research. some places are obvious (harvard, yale, upenn, etc...) but places on the fringe you can search sdn/scutwork for reviews about programs.

go down the freida list and look up their websites, they can usually help give you a feel. look at current residents. a couple imgs/dos per class doesnt mean anything, but if half a class or above is made up of DOs or IMGs then that could be a indicator of not being the best program.

edit: at this point you should have already applied, however, so isnt it kinda pointless to worry about it now?

By that logic does that mean a place like BMC in Boston is low tier? Isn't it an academic program at a decent school though?

http://www.bmc.org/anesthesia/educationandtraining-residency-residents.htm

 

[digitox]

Post like this get little annoying, a lot of these DOs and IMG have better scores than 95 percent of applicants

 

[canjosh]

any chance i can get an interview at UTH or baylor with a 204 step 1 and 242 step 2? will an away help? top 40 med school, out of state.. from houston..

I believe the Baylor PD told me that this year's entering class had Step 1 scores from the 220s to the 260s. I suppose that doesn't mean that getting an interview is impossible though.

 

[Ronin786]

Post like this get little annoying, a lot of these DOs and IMG have better scores than 95 percent of applicants

Shhhh...don't want to hurt any US-allo egos.

I don't understand why this always ends up being a sore subject. More often than not, programs with a high IMG/DO population aren't going to be as competitive as others. Thats the way the system is currently set up.

That's not even a dig at IMGs and DOs, it's just that when programs are given the choice between an AMG and an IMG/DO they're going to go with the AMGs.

Not to mention, even if the IMG/DOs have great scores that doesn't change the status of their program. There are a ton of crappy programs out there with high-scoring IMGs/DOs simply because those students don't have the luxury of choosing more competitive places.

It seems to me it's always the IMGs/DOs that end up having their egos bruised when this subject comes up rather than US-allos.

 

[digitox]

Ok whatever I'm sure you know because you talk to every PD out there. However, even if that is true , does it really mean anything about quality of the program? Maybe maybe not, i don't know. But It does get thrown around as "measure" of how good program is, which Is ridiculous.

 

[gasthrowaway]

Ok whatever I'm sure you know because you talk to every PD out there. However, even if that is true , does it really mean anything about quality of the program? Maybe maybe not, i don't know. But It does get thrown around as "measure" of how good program is, which Is ridiculous.

Dude, I'm a DO. So there isn't any sort of pro us-md agenda here. But you're delusional if you dont recognize that we simply aren't as competitive as applicants. Thats just the way it is. And yes, if you see a program that has 70-80-90% DO/IMG/FMG, you can definitely categorize it as a "less competitive program."

Does that mean youre going to get a terrible education? Does that mean you cant get a great fellowship? Does that mean you wont get a solid job when you graduate? Absolutely not.

But for one reason or another, whether it be history of the program, prestige, location, work hours, whatever... it has become less competitive. I'm not sure why people get so upset about this issue. 99% of us that went non us-md did so because we couldnt get into an american medical school. Just be thankful that there are alternative routes.

I always think, "what if DO schools didnt exist, where would I be now?" Absolutely ****ed is where I'd be. Obviously it sucks that programs like columbia and mt sinai throw my app in the garbage before they look at it, but Im just thankful that I still get to be a doctor, I still get to go to a SOLID program, and I still get to practice medicine in the greatest country in the world.

 

[DreamMachine]

Hey guys, currently applying to anesthesiology this year, but my stats are pretty poor. What are the low tier programs? I keep seeing the term "low-tier" here but there doesn't seem to be a list anywhere. Please help?

If you never heard of it, prolly lower tier.

 

[Ronin786]

Dude, I'm a DO. So there isn't any sort of pro us-md agenda here. But you're delusional if you dont recognize that we simply aren't as competitive as applicants. Thats just the way it is. And yes, if you see a program that has 70-80-90% DO/IMG/FMG, you can definitely categorize it as a "less competitive program."

Does that mean youre going to get a terrible education? Does that mean you cant get a great fellowship? Does that mean you wont get a solid job when you graduate? Absolutely not.

But for one reason or another, whether it be history of the program, prestige, location, work hours, whatever... it has become less competitive. I'm not sure why people get so upset about this issue. 99% of us that went non us-md did so because we couldnt get into an american medical school. Just be thankful that there are alternative routes.

I always think, "what if DO schools didnt exist, where would I be now?" Absolutely ****ed is where I'd be. Obviously it sucks that programs like columbia and mt sinai throw my app in the garbage before they look at it, but Im just thankful that I still get to be a doctor, I still get to go to a SOLID program, and I still get to practice medicine in the greatest country in the world.

I'm actually of the 1% that wasn't a result of not getting into a US-MD school yet I still agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said.

It just gives me more of an incentive to prove to all those programs that I'm just as competitive as one of those US-grads. And the fact of the matter is, once you start residency where you went to medical school no longer makes as big of a difference. And that's all that matters for me now.

 

[Libertas]

By that logic does that mean a place like BMC in Boston is low tier? Isn't it an academic program at a decent school though?

http://www.bmc.org/anesthesia/educationandtraining-residency-residents.htm

BMC is run by a private practice group, so no, its not really academic. When I interviewed there a couple years ago I had to pay for my own parking, there was no pre interview dinner, no lunch, and the only resident we met was a chief. Hmm. Hard to seduce applicants that way....I didn't rank it.

 

[Thepassageofgas]

BMC is run by a private practice group, so no, its not really academic. When I interviewed there a couple years ago I had to pay for my own parking, there was no pre interview dinner, no lunch, and the only resident we met was a chief. Hmm. Hard to seduce applicants that way....I didn't rank it.

It's exactly the same now. I'm a US-IMG and it was one of the first interview offers I got so I booked it early in the season, not knowing how lucky I was going to get.

I didn't rank it either. It just seemed so....bleak.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

Hey guys, currently applying to anesthesiology this year, but my stats are pretty poor. What are the low tier programs? I keep seeing the term "low-tier" here but there doesn't seem to be a list anywhere. Please help?

Ok let me get this straight. You scored low, your grades suck, and you want to get into anesthesia. You're too lazy to do any research on your own so you decided to come here and try to get people to call out other programs and call them crap. So crappy that they would be thrilled to get an even crappier candidate such as yourself? Gotta love it.

 

[chmd]

Would it have made a difference if he'd asked for a list of hidden gems? Or little known community programs? I don't have personal experience with any, but if I had to apply to residency all over again I'd probably want to check out Maine Medical Center simply because a co-resident of mine said they enjoyed their interview -- and it's in Portland. Also the University of Vermont seems like a cool place. I don't have any knowledge of how competitive their programs are but one could see how they may be under the radar.