Lower division/upper division? How do you know?

[dbmgator]

I did my first half of undergrad at a community college and my second half at a university. Unsure of what to put on my pharmcas application for upper/lower division classes, I sent pharmcas a message. The response I got back was "all classes completed at a community college should be listed as lower division". Does this sound correct?

I got a real broad response back when I asked about taking general anthropology during my junior year at a university...

How do you know what is/is not considered an upper/lower division class?
I don't want to make any mistakes on my application...

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[nervoushabits]

100 and 200 level = lower division. All CCs have numbers from 100 to 299.

300+ = upper division

 

[dbmgator]

100 and 200 level = lower division. All CCs have numbers from 100 to 299.

300+ = upper division

That's what I thought too but I don't think that rule is entirely true. For example, group study for American sign language 1 is a number larger than 299. It's for sure not upper division, since it's an intro course.

Also Organic chemistry I is CHM2210 and CHM2211 for organic chem II..isn't organic chemistry an upper division course?

 

[Chromatography]

Contact your school to clarify that. In my university, all the ones higher than 100 are upper division.

On the other hand, I am sure all community college courses are considered lower division.

 

[phathead]

That's what I thought too but I don't think that rule is entirely true. For example, group study for American sign language 1 is a number larger than 299. It's for sure not upper division, since it's an intro course.

Also Organic chemistry I is CHM2210 and CHM2211 for organic chem II..isn't organic chemistry an upper division course?

depends on the university, it's 300 level here

 

[Carboxide]

I did my first half of undergrad at a community college and my second half at a university. Unsure of what to put on my pharmcas application for upper/lower division classes, I sent pharmcas a message. The response I got back was "all classes completed at a community college should be listed as lower division". Does this sound correct?

I got a real broad response back when I asked about taking general anthropology during my junior year at a university...

How do you know what is/is not considered an upper/lower division class?
I don't want to make any mistakes on my application...

ALL CC classes are lower division. End story.

As for universities...if it is expected that it is taken in the freshman or sophomore year by the program, it is lower division. Organic is lower even if it's 300 level because it's basic organic, and it is designed to be taken in the first and second semesters of the sophomore year.

 

[busyizzy]

Yeah, I agree with Carboxide. Lower division means taken by freshmen and sophomores. As all pharm prereqs can be taken in your first 2 years of college, they are all lower-division.

 

[pharmD eighty7]

Yeah, I agree with Carboxide. Lower division means taken by freshmen and sophomores. As all pharm prereqs can be taken in your first 2 years of college, they are all lower-division.

 

[nervoushabits]

I don't think that's right. I know for my PharmCAS, my anatomy was considered an upper division because it was a 300 level class, and my Stat class is a graduate level class (500 level). I'm pretty sure it's different for each school, so I would contact the school directly and ask them.

 

[kashkow]

You can ask, but I think it's pointless because at my university, any courses in the Biol and Chem department listed above 2XXX (Biol) and 25XX (chem) are considered upper division. I categorized them as such based on my school but when pharmcas was going through my grades/transcripts verification, they changed all the 2000s classes back to lower division. I think it's stupid since some of my 2000s courses are way harder than my "upper" division classes but what can I do?

 

[Ackj]

You can ask, but I think it's pointless because at my university, any courses in the Biol and Chem department listed above 2XXX (Biol) and 25XX (chem) are considered upper division. I categorized them as such based on my school but when pharmcas was going through my grades/transcripts verification, they changed all the 2000s classes back to lower division. I think it's stupid since some of my 2000s courses are way harder than my "upper" division classes but what can I do?

Honestly, difficulty of upper and lower division will vary greatly. My school's 300 level genetics is easier than 200 level Micro.

When you try to consider non-sciences, the difference increases even more. My medical ethics was philosopy 398, but was far easier than even our intro chem 103. Same goes for my speech class (course for senior communication majors).

 

[Marcus X]

ALL CC classes are lower division. End story.

As for universities...if it is expected that it is taken in the freshman or sophomore year by the program, it is lower division. Organic is lower even if it's 300 level because it's basic organic, and it is designed to be taken in the first and second semesters of the sophomore year.

That is patently false. All classes at a CC are not necessarily lower division. At UCSD, lower division courses have numbers less than 100. All upper division courses are between 100 and 199. Organic chemistry, physiology, microbiology are all upper division courses. UCSD accepts for credit the equivalent courses from the local community colleges.

 

[Carboxide]

That is patently false. All classes at a CC are not necessarily lower division. At UCSD, lower division courses have numbers less than 100. All upper division courses are between 100 and 199. Organic chemistry, physiology, microbiology are all upper division courses. UCSD accepts for credit the equivalent courses from the local community colleges.

Pharmcas will not allow you to list a CC course as upper division. So, all CC courses are lower division.

 

[SmKN808]

Pharmcas will not allow you to list a CC course as upper division. So, all CC courses are lower division.

OUCH!!! but...

 

[Passion4Sci]

OUCH!!! but...

Why's that an "ouch"?

Even if CC classes are lower-division by PharmCAS standards, not all schools require or use PharmCAS and hell, there's nothing wrong with lower-division classes. There's a reason that pharmacy schools can and do accept folks w/ only 2 years of university or college completed; it's all that is necessary to be a successful student of pharmacy.

 

[Marcus X]

Pharmcas will not allow you to list a CC course as upper division. So, all CC courses are lower division.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that PharmCAS held sway over all academic institutions.

I certainly don't remember it forbidding me from listing CC classes as upper division. In fact, I'm certain that it let me list my few CC courses as upper division. Furthermore, regardless of what PharmCAS chooses to call them, they are still considered upper division courses. Organic chemistry is STILL an upper division-level course. That fact doesn't change just because someone wants to call it something else.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that PharmCAS held sway over all academic institutions.

I certainly don't remember it forbidding me from listing CC classes as upper division. In fact, I'm certain that it let me list my few CC courses as upper division. Furthermore, regardless of what PharmCAS chooses to call them, they are still considered upper division courses. Organic chemistry is STILL an upper division-level course. That fact doesn't change just because someone wants to call it something else.

I agree with you in principle, but PharmCAS does direct you to list community college coursework as Fr/So class status, not Jr/Sr.

Assign Lower-division (Fr/So) status to courses completed at a junior or community college
(e.g., associate degree course work).

You can't assign upper-div status to coursework completed at an institution awarding only AA/AS degrees, apparently.

I don't expressly remember it either as I had a handful of CC classes to finish the pre-requisites, but I went back and checked to be thorough.

 

[busyizzy]

Furthermore, regardless of what PharmCAS chooses to call them, they are still considered upper division courses. Organic chemistry is STILL an upper division-level course. That fact doesn't change just because someone wants to call it something else.

I think PharmCAS changes that when they review your transcripts after you submit your application.

Organic chemistry is usually NOT an upper division course... it is a course usually for sophomores. Even if you took it as a senior, it does not make it an upper level course. Of course, there are exceptions, such as the grad level stats course someone up above took, but like I said, USUALLY.

 

[SmKN808]

Why's that an "ouch"?

ooh, HI sci ^ ^ aww, no, i just thought the two[marcus/ carbo], were gonna go back and forth with eachother. so, i was just kind a acting as an "instigator" sort a speak but, yeah... NO!!! offense marcus, really! as i do agree with you in the sense that despite what pharmcas, chooses to call them[o chem, physiology, microbiology and such]... they are still considered upper division courses. but, as far as pharmcas goes...? it is what it is lucky YOU though

 

[SmKN808]

I think PharmCAS changes that when they review your transcripts after you submit your application.

Organic chemistry is usually NOT an upper division course... it is a course usually for sophomores. Even if you took it as a senior, it does not make it an upper level course. Of course, there are exceptions, such as the grad level stats course someone up above took, but like I said, USUALLY.

hey izzy ^ ^ ooh really, i didn't know that i thought chem 301/ chem302[o chem i & ii], were considered upper division??? oh well...

 

[Marcus X]

I think PharmCAS changes that when they review your transcripts after you submit your application.

Organic chemistry is usually NOT an upper division course... it is a course usually for sophomores. Even if you took it as a senior, it does not make it an upper level course. Of course, there are exceptions, such as the grad level stats course someone up above took, but like I said, USUALLY.

UCSD explicitly lists organic chemistry as an upper-division course. They also explicitly list microbiology, physiology, structural biochemistry, metabolic biochemistry, and a host of others as upper-division courses. Many of these can be taken for full credit at a local community college.

 

[Passion4Sci]

UCSD explicitly lists organic chemistry as an upper-division course. They also explicitly list microbiology, physiology, structural biochemistry, metabolic biochemistry, and a host of others as upper-division courses. Many of these can be taken for full credit at a local community college.

If you take them at UCSD, they can be listed as upper division. If you take them Community College X, they cannot be listed as upper division, and that's what Carboxide's talking about.

 

[Marcus X]

If you take them at UCSD, they can be listed as upper division. If you take them Community College X, they cannot be listed as upper division, and that's what Carboxide's talking about.

Perhaps. I'm pretty sure I listed them as upper division. But... as I don't have access to my application any more... I can't exactly check. Either way, it's quite an arbitrary distinction.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Perhaps. I'm pretty sure I listed them as upper division. But... as I don't have access to my application any more... I can't exactly check. Either way, it's quite an arbitrary distinction.

The negative stigma attached to CC in general is pretty damn arbitrary. There are plenty of easy-A classes at 4 year schools just like there are hard one, same goes for CC. There's a LOT of arbitrary bull$h!t in this world and pharm. school is no exception whatsoever.

I believe you CAN assign upper-div. status to CC classes, just that it can possibly slow down PharmCAS processing or whatever if you do. Doubt it'd be a catastrophic occurrence in any event.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I think the actual course title matters a lot more than whatever division you assign it to. ALL of my pre-reqs for pharmacy school were in the 200 level at my undergrad institution so I just listed them as lower level and called it a day. Most of my electives for my major (biology of aging, animal behavior, the human brain, etc) were 300 level so I listed them as upper. I think it would matter more if you had a major outside of the sciences because then it would look like you only took lower level courses even though they were difficult.

 

[dbmgator]

Thanks for the input everyone...I think I am going to see an adviser and ask about this. I'll let you'll know what I find out.