Lower grade in Orgo II than Orgo I - not good?

[Tribeca]

I've heard that adcoms look very closely at an applicant's grades in organic chemistry. I was fortunate enough to get an A in Orgo I (yay!) but I'm not doing as well this semester for Orgo II. Suddenly, there was this gush of information and mechanisms that I have to remember and I can't seem to fit it all into my brain.

The thing is, I understand the material, it's just that when exam time comes, all the reactions keep swimming in my head especially when I have to do a synthesis question! I keep forgetting either reagents or a mechanism step discussed in a previous chapter. HELP! I'm afraid I might get a B this time, although my prof says if I ace the next midterm and the final, I might still get an A ... will a B look bad considering I got an A the first time?

Any tips on studying? Third (and last) midterm coming up this Monday! So far, I'm almost done with content and will focus on practicing synthesis problems (big part of the exam). Anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance!

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[Pinkertinkle]

Relax. It's all good. Adcoms look mainly at your GPA and MCAT, then any significant EC's. They do not have the time to go through your application with a fine tooth comb and penalize you for getting a lower grade in orgo II than I.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I'm reminded daily how fortunate I was not to discover SDN until M1 year. Reading frantic reports of Bs ruining academic careers would've made me a neurotic headcase.

 

[63768]

won't matter that much. you'll be fine.

 

[Mayday]

Find practice tests. This helps me more than anything else I think.

 

[NN11]

the only time Adcom's concentrate on the grade you get in orgo and then proceed to compare orgo I and II is when you have nothing else of interest in your application.

Make sure the other dimensions of your application are strong (i.e. your MCAT, GPA and ECs), and not much thought will be given to the lower grade in orgo II.

Besides, the lower grade might easily be attributed to having a different teacher in orgo II, one with possibly inferior presentation skills!!!

 

[arsenewenger]

I've heard that adcoms look very closely at an applicant's grades in organic chemistry. I was fortunate enough to get an A in Orgo I (yay!) but I'm not doing as well this semester for Orgo II. Suddenly, there was this gush of information and mechanisms that I have to remember and I can't seem to fit it all into my brain.

The thing is, I understand the material, it's just that when exam time comes, all the reactions keep swimming in my head especially when I have to do a synthesis question! I keep forgetting either reagents or a mechanism step discussed in a previous chapter. HELP! I'm afraid I might get a B this time, although my prof says if I ace the next midterm and the final, I might still get an A ... will a B look bad considering I got an A the first time?

Any tips on studying? Third (and last) midterm coming up this Monday! So far, I'm almost done with content and will focus on practicing synthesis problems (big part of the exam). Anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance!

We both know you trolling right?

 

[Muscles00GT]

Oh no, not a B! Let's be realistic. Getting a B in a class isn't bad at all. In fact, a B is a solid grade especially for o chem.

 

[Kfire326]

I'm reminded daily how fortunate I was not to discover SDN until M1 year. Reading frantic reports of Bs ruining academic careers would've made me a neurotic headcase.

I'm happy I started SDNing AFTER getting my first acceptance

We both know you trolling right?

I still don't know what trolling means...?

 

[NN11]

I still don't know what trolling means...?

Here you go from previous posters:

Someone who starts a controversial/inflammatory thread just to get a response from everyone.

When in doubt, try wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_Internet


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life

 

[Tired]

I'm afraid I might get a B this time, although my prof says if I ace the next midterm and the final, I might still get an A ... will a B look bad considering I got an A the first time?

New AMCAS regulations prevent schools from accepting students who have not demonstrated an "upward trend" in their grades. Falling from an A to a B will, by policy, prevent you from matriculating to medical school.

Consider retaking Orgo I and getting a B-. Then your grades will reflect improvement over time, which is a sign of the maturity needed to become a physician.

 

[NN11]

New AMCAS regulations prevent schools from accepting students who have not demonstrated an "upward trend" in their grades. Falling from an A to a B will, by policy, prevent you from matriculating to medical school.

Consider retaking Orgo I and getting a B-. Then your grades will reflect improvement over time, which is a sign of the maturity needed to become a physician.

Tired, you're silly. But I the sarcasm. After all, it's one of the free services we offer here at SDN.

 

[Tribeca]

the only time Adcom's concentrate on the grade you get in orgo and then proceed to compare orgo I and II is when you have nothing else of interest in your application.

Make sure the other dimensions of your application are strong (i.e. your MCAT, GPA and ECs), and not much thought will be given to the lower grade in orgo II.

Besides, the lower grade might easily be attributed to having a different teacher in orgo II, one with possibly inferior presentation skills!!!

Thanks for the solid advice. Just what I'm looking for. I was feeling pretty okay until I freaked out when I read this thread in OPM (OldPreMeds) about how this one guy went to his interview and both his ochem grades were highlighted, which emphasizes how adcoms look at them. Then everyone chimed in on it... Tic, I totally get your point!

Tic:I'm reminded daily how fortunate I was not to discover SDN until M1 year. Reading frantic reports of Bs ruining academic careers would've made me a neurotic headcase.

Sorry if I sounded like a nuerotic premed (haha, okay, okay, maybe I AM!) NO, I am not a troll. I've been an SDN member for 1 1/2 years and you could check out my previous posts. Please don't turn this into a flame thread.

NOW, anyone got ADVICE on how to study for orgo II, specifically synthesis questions? Any good websites with practice tests? So far I've been working on the homework problems in our textbook. Running out of practice Q's here...

 

[Kfire326]

Here you go from previous posters:

Why thank you. I Wikipedia.

 

[Tribeca]

New AMCAS regulations prevent schools from accepting students who have not demonstrated an "upward trend" in their grades. Falling from an A to a B will, by policy, prevent you from matriculating to medical school.

Consider retaking Orgo I and getting a B-. Then your grades will reflect improvement over time, which is a sign of the maturity needed to become a physician.

You're right. Maybe I should drop this class, because a B will probably not get me into medical school. My life is over. My dreams are crushed. Forget medicine, I'll work for In N Out - they start at $8/hr! /sarcasm

 

[dasacohen]

I got a B in orgo I and a B- in orgo II (albeit an A+ in both lab sections...)

never once was I asked about it in an interview.

 

[arsenewenger]

Thanks for the solid advice. Just what I'm looking for. I was feeling pretty okay until I freaked out when I read this thread in OPM (OldPreMeds) about how this one guy went to his interview and both his ochem grades were highlighted, which emphasizes how adcoms look at them. Then everyone chimed in on it... Tic, I totally get your point!

Sorry if I sounded like a nuerotic premed (haha, okay, okay, maybe I AM!) NO, I am not a troll. I've been an SDN member for 1 1/2 years and you could check out my previous posts. Please don't turn this into a flame thread.

NOW, anyone got ADVICE on how to study for orgo II, specifically synthesis questions? Any good websites with practice tests? So far I've been working on the homework problems in our textbook. Running out of practice Q's here...

Practice practice practice.
Use your sdn time to practice.

 

[Tribeca]

I got a B in orgo I and a B- in orgo II (albeit an A+ in both lab sections...)

never once was I asked about it in an interview.

Nice to know!

 

[NN11]

NOW, anyone got ADVICE on how to study for orgo II, specifically synthesis questions? Any good websites with practice tests? So far I've been working on the homework problems in our textbook. Running out of practice Q's here...

Ochem is my Forte, I taught it for many many many years.

My best advice to you would be:


1) Draw a large map of the major functional groups (For example in Ochem I these would be Alkane, Haloalkane, Alkene, Alkyne, Alcohol, and do something similar for OChem II F.G's) Write as many reactions that would connect one F.G. to the next F.G and go through the map and connect all of the FG's together with arrows. Color coding really helps, it's visual and helps you to remember the big picture.

2) look up previous exams by all ochem professors including your own, usually these are on file in your library.

3) Next create flashcards from all the problems you've found on previous tests, with problems on one side and answers on the other side of the card. at first you can figure out the answer by writing it down. Slowly force yourself to achieve this result by solving it in your mind's eye by visualizing where you are on your map and which Functional groups you need to get to, follow the arrows, and then think of the reactions that get you there.

It's really difficult for me to describe this method to you without showing you and I know this may sound really hard to achieve, but it works. let's just say I never had to study for the ochem section of the MCAT.


I know this will take a lot work and I'll totally understand if you don't use it, LOL, but you asked and I had to give you the best answer I could without telling you to do rote memorization!

 

[paranoid_eyes]

NOW, anyone got ADVICE on how to study for orgo II, specifically synthesis questions? Any good websites with practice tests? So far I've been working on the homework problems in our textbook. Running out of practice Q's here...

do PP's till your arm is numb

 

[tdjn]

Actually, you don't learn any "real organic chemistry" untill you get to Org II, and adcoms know this. Org I mostly consists of the basic SN1, SN2, E1, E2 mechanisms-esentially route memorization-whereas Org. II has the biological/medical concepts that are frequently seen not just in undergrad but med. schools as well. Hence, going down a full letter grade from I to II can be detrimental to your application, especially if you are lacking in EC's and majority of the strength in your application comes from academics.

Triberca, what I recommend is just withrdraw from the course, focus on your other courses and make sure you pull A's in them, and take Org. II over the summer. The Organic chem classes in the summer are less intense, and although adcoms also realize this, it's better than going down a full letter grade-especially from an A to a B. The A will just seem like a fluke.

Also, let me just warn you that you are probably not guaranteed a B in the course- people often overestimate and rationalize themselves into thinking they can always get a higher grade than why they actually end up getting in the class (especially in O.Chem.). I don't mean to sound discouraging, but chances are likely that the material get extremely difficult (just wait until you get into the later chapters), and you will continue to do worse in them. That's the general trend. You should probably be look at a B- or even a C+.

So stay in the course, if you think you can at least pull an A-. Otherwise, I think the best option is to drop the course so you don't taint your (almost) flawless GPA. Hope this wasn't too discouraging- I was just speaking from my experience. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[bluesTank]

Actually, you don't learn any "real organic chemistry" untill you get to Org II, and adcoms know this. Org I mostly consists of the basic SN1, SN2, E1, E2 mechanisms-esentially route memorization-whereas Org. II has the biological/medical concepts that are frequently seen not just in undergrad but med. schools as well. Hence, going down a full letter grade from I to II can be detrimental to your application, especially if you are lacking in EC's and majority of the strength in your application comes from academics.

Triberca, what I recommend is just withrdraw from the course, focus on your other courses and make sure you pull A's in them, and take Org. II over the summer. The Organic chem classes in the summer are less intense, and although adcoms also realize this, it's better than going down a full letter grade-especially from an A to a B. The A will just seem like a fluke.

Also, let me just warn you that you are probably not guaranteed a B in the course- people often overestimate and rationalize themselves into thinking they can always get a higher grade than why they actually end up getting in the class (especially in O.Chem.). I don't mean to sound discouraging, but chances are likely that the material get extremely difficult (just wait until you get into the later chapters), and you will continue to do worse in them. That's the general trend. You should probably be look at a B- or even a C+.

So stay in the course, if you think you can at least pull an A-. Otherwise, I think the best option is to drop the course so you don't taint your (almost) flawless GPA. Hope this wasn't too discouraging- I was just speaking from my experience. I wish you the best of luck.

Sorry, but that was pure douchebaggery

 

[NN11]

Actually, you don't learn any "real organic chemistry" untill you get to Org II, and adcoms know this. Org I mostly consists of the basic SN1, SN2, E1, E2 mechanisms-esentially route memorization-whereas Org. II has the biological/medical concepts that are frequently seen not just in undergrad but med. schools as well. Hence, going down a full letter grade from I to II can be detrimental to your application, especially if you are lacking in EC's and majority of the strength in your application comes from academics.

Triberca, what I recommend is just withrdraw from the course, focus on your other courses and make sure you pull A's in them, and take Org. II over the summer. The Organic chem classes in the summer are less intense, and although adcoms also realize this, it's better than going down a full letter grade-especially from an A to a B. The A will just seem like a fluke.

Also, let me just warn you that you are probably not guaranteed a B in the course- people often overestimate and rationalize themselves into thinking they can always get a higher grade than why they actually end up getting in the class (especially in O.Chem.). I don't mean to sound discouraging, but chances are likely that the material get extremely difficult (just wait until you get into the later chapters), and you will continue to do worse in them. That's the general trend. You should probably be look at a B- or even a C+.

So stay in the course, if you think you can at least pull an A-. Otherwise, I think the best option is to drop the course so you don't taint your (almost) flawless GPA. Hope this wasn't too discouraging- I was just speaking from my experience. I wish you the best of luck.

WTH, I hope you're kidding or just being sarcastic, if you employ this sort of method for boosting your GPA in med school, you'll be going for the 8-year plan rather than the typical 4-year plan.

or is this Pandabear incognito???

 

[arsenewenger]

WTH, I hope you're kidding or just being sarcastic, if you employ this sort of method for boosting your GPA in med school, you'll be going for the 8-year plan rather than the typical 4-year plan.

or is this Pandabear incognito???

Do you mean lifetime plan?

 

[arsenewenger]

Actually, you don't learn any "real organic chemistry" untill you get to Org II, and adcoms know this. Org I mostly consists of the basic SN1, SN2, E1, E2 mechanisms-esentially route memorization-whereas Org. II has the biological/medical concepts that are frequently seen not just in undergrad but med. schools as well. Hence, going down a full letter grade from I to II can be detrimental to your application, especially if you are lacking in EC's and majority of the strength in your application comes from academics.

Triberca, what I recommend is just withrdraw from the course, focus on your other courses and make sure you pull A's in them, and take Org. II over the summer. The Organic chem classes in the summer are less intense, and although adcoms also realize this, it's better than going down a full letter grade-especially from an A to a B. The A will just seem like a fluke.

Also, let me just warn you that you are probably not guaranteed a B in the course- people often overestimate and rationalize themselves into thinking they can always get a higher grade than why they actually end up getting in the class (especially in O.Chem.). I don't mean to sound discouraging, but chances are likely that the material get extremely difficult (just wait until you get into the later chapters), and you will continue to do worse in them. That's the general trend. You should probably be look at a B- or even a C+.

So stay in the course, if you think you can at least pull an A-. Otherwise, I think the best option is to drop the course so you don't taint your (almost) flawless GPA. Hope this wasn't too discouraging- I was just speaking from my experience. I wish you the best of luck.

Best Advice ever.

 

[NN11]

Do you mean lifetime plan?

Somehow, I don't think that's what med schools mean by the phrase "we encourage life-long learning."

They probably hope that you're able to move on with your life even without an A in every course.

 

[Tribeca]

Ochem is my Forte, I taught it for many many many years.

My best advice to you would be:


1) Draw a large map of the major functional groups (For example in Ochem I these would be Alkane, Haloalkane, Alkene, Alkyne, Alcohol, and do something similar for OChem II F.G's) Write as many reactions that would connect one F.G. to the next F.G and go through the map and connect all of the FG's together with arrows. Color coding really helps, it's visual and helps you to remember the big picture.

2) look up previous exams by all ochem professors including your own, usually these are on file in your library.

3) Next create flashcards from all the problems you've found on previous tests, with problems on one side and answers on the other side of the card. at first you can figure out the answer by writing it down. Slowly force yourself to achieve this result by solving it in your mind's eye by visualizing where you are on your map and which Functional groups you need to get to, follow the arrows, and then think of the reactions that get you there.

It's really difficult for me to describe this method to you without showing you and I know this may sound really hard to achieve, but it works. let's just say I never had to study for the ochem section of the MCAT.


I know this will take a lot work and I'll totally understand if you don't use it, LOL, but you asked and I had to give you the best answer I could without telling you to do rote memorization!

Hi NN11, thanks for the great advice. I've been drawing maps for each functional group with the color coding, but I've never thought of "connecting" them together. I'll try it but I can't imagine how I would fit these in one piece of paper! I usually draw 1 FG per page.

Do you have any strategies for memorizing the reagents? I'm able to recall the main ones (eg., PCC to oxidize) but usually forget the solvents (eg., CH2Cl2) and sometimes, the second step.

Thanks again!

 

[Re3iRtH]

I've heard that adcoms look very closely at an applicant's grades in organic chemistry. I was fortunate enough to get an A in Orgo I (yay!) but I'm not doing as well this semester for Orgo II. Suddenly, there was this gush of information and mechanisms that I have to remember and I can't seem to fit it all into my brain.

The thing is, I understand the material, it's just that when exam time comes, all the reactions keep swimming in my head especially when I have to do a synthesis question! I keep forgetting either reagents or a mechanism step discussed in a previous chapter. HELP! I'm afraid I might get a B this time, although my prof says if I ace the next midterm and the final, I might still get an A ... will a B look bad considering I got an A the first time?

Any tips on studying? Third (and last) midterm coming up this Monday! So far, I'm almost done with content and will focus on practicing synthesis problems (big part of the exam). Anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance!

Don't sweat it at all man. If you end up getting a B or lower in Orgo,
you should consider R-Coding/E-Coding the grade. Your school
likely has this policy, but you should see one of your deans to verify this.
The schools don't typically give this info out, but its there for
those that wish to seek it. Good luck.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

I've heard that adcoms look very closely at an applicant's grades in organic chemistry. I was fortunate enough to get an A in Orgo I (yay!) but I'm not doing as well this semester for Orgo II. Suddenly, there was this gush of information and mechanisms that I have to remember and I can't seem to fit it all into my brain.

The thing is, I understand the material, it's just that when exam time comes, all the reactions keep swimming in my head especially when I have to do a synthesis question! I keep forgetting either reagents or a mechanism step discussed in a previous chapter. HELP! I'm afraid I might get a B this time, although my prof says if I ace the next midterm and the final, I might still get an A ... will a B look bad considering I got an A the first time?

Any tips on studying? Third (and last) midterm coming up this Monday! So far, I'm almost done with content and will focus on practicing synthesis problems (big part of the exam). Anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance!

It's going to be very hard to do synthesis problems unless you have a firm understanding of the individual reactions. My OChem prof explained it like this: "the synthesis problem is a big job, and the reactions you know is your tool kit. The job is hard as it is...so if you forget some of your tools you're **** out of luck. " I would work really hard to really understand the individual reactions (however you do this best, but practice problems help). Only then can you really try to apply them to syntheses. You need to approach it from the bottom up.

Good luck

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

Don't sweat it at all man. If you end up getting a B or lower in Orgo,
you should consider R-Coding/E-Coding the grade. Your school
likely has this policy, but you should see one of your deans to verify this.
The schools don't typically give this info out, but its there for
those that wish to seek it. Good luck.

what is that?

 

[Re3iRtH]

what is that?

Replace / Erase

 

[NN11]

Ochem is my Forte, I taught it for many many many years.

My best advice to you would be:


1) Draw a large map of the major functional groups (For example in Ochem I these would be Alkane, Haloalkane, Alkene, Alkyne, Alcohol, and do something similar for OChem II F.G's) Write as many reactions that would connect one F.G. to the next F.G and go through the map and connect all of the FG's together with arrows. Color coding really helps, it's visual and helps you to remember the big picture.

2) look up previous exams by all ochem professors including your own, usually these are on file in your library.

3) Next create flashcards from all the problems you've found on previous tests, with problems on one side and answers on the other side of the card. at first you can figure out the answer by writing it down. Slowly force yourself to achieve this result by solving it in your mind's eye by visualizing where you are on your map and which Functional groups you need to get to, follow the arrows, and then think of the reactions that get you there.

It's really difficult for me to describe this method to you without showing you and I know this may sound really hard to achieve, but it works. let's just say I never had to study for the ochem section of the MCAT.


I know this will take a lot work and I'll totally understand if you don't use it, LOL, but you asked and I had to give you the best answer I could without telling you to do rote memorization!

Hi NN11, thanks for the great advice. I've been drawing maps for each functional group with the color coding, but I've never thought of "connecting" them together. I'll try it but I can't imagine how I would fit these in one piece of paper! I usually draw 1 FG per page.

Do you have any strategies for memorizing the reagents? I'm able to recall the main ones (eg., PCC to oxidize) but usually forget the solvents (eg., CH2Cl2) and sometimes, the second step.

Thanks again!

No Problem

Hey Tribeca, I have a feeling that the topics we're discussing are not all that relevant to this forum (Pre-allo forum), I think they should be discussed in the MCAT forum.

But since I don't frequent the MCAT forum that often, I'll PM you my answer for this question.

if others want the answer, PM me.

 

[BirdmanRA]

I got a B in Organic I and a C in Organic II.....never got asked about it once. Just keep everything else on the up and up. Like others have said...most adcoms look for the upward trend, and a strong overall application/GPA. Have some substantial extracurriculars in there or even a 4.0 won't help you compete.

 

[monkeydoctor]

I'm reminded daily how fortunate I was not to discover SDN until M1 year. Reading frantic reports of Bs ruining academic careers would've made me a neurotic headcase.

man, you mean medical students read this, too?! damn!!! i was hoping to wean myself off of SDN this summer and never come back here. oh well, there goes that plan...