Lowest and Highest Paid Physicians

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2) My sister is a consultant & she works more hours than a radiologist. She is also constantly on call and travelling without any notice. She makes one-third what the radiologist does. Point: Yes, doctors work hard. So do people in every other profession. We are aptly compensated, they are not. I have no tolerance for doctors' sob stories.

I NEVER get involved in these discussions but given your second comment I had to:

Your argument is crap. Having been a consultant, you travel and work a lot but you're also getting paid well...my first year out of college I was making twice what I will make as a resident, not including a bonus (though there isn't one last or this yr b/c of the economy). So yeah you're working a lot but consulting comes with a lot more perks - sports tickets, free travel, 20% bonuses, expensed meals, etc. that you don't get while working just as hard as a physician. All while making double the salary (and that continues as you progress to partner, unless you're comparing to a crazy specialty physician salary). And finally, I wouldn't call consulting a noble profession, you're making business / strategy recommendations to multi-nationals.

Get over the idea that physicians are over-compensated, when you look at Hospital Admin salaries and consultant, i-banking, Venture, Hedge Fund, PE, etc. essentially salaries of people working as hard and having similar education levels (although BS + MBA != BS +MD + Residency + Fellow) theirs are better. And given declining prestige etc. don't give me the crap about how good doctors have it. Yeah we will make more than a great portion of society BUT so do a lot of professions that don't do ANYTHING nearly as positive as we do for society and we really make less than comparable positions (in terms of time put in and education required).

If you are going to make the comparison don't compare doctor salaries to work-a-day folks, compare salaries to graduate-educated professions putting in 70+/wk (see VC and other high finance positions, consulting, etc.) and you'll see we're undercompensated. It's because new physicians think this way that our reimbursement is going down yearly in a bid to "cut costs in healthcare" while the real culprits for healthcare spending, SNFs and Hospitals, get more reimbursement, completely ridiculous.

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Also, now reading the rest of the thread I feel a little red-faced since it's like 7 years old and the guy who made that comment is probably making crazy money and deeply ashamed of it by now.

The UPS driver argument is an interesting one but it's a simple model...I'm not sure that you could account for everything and I think that there's more to the opportunity cost than just the lost wages but it's definitely an interesting analysis.
 
I agree that salary is important - we deserve to be compensate well.

But these pathetic whiny stories you read here are tiresome. Whoa is me! I only make 300,000, not 400,000. You would think with the economy tanking and unemployment going up, people would appreciate actually have a job where it's practically impossible to get fired. Ever hear of 500 doctors in a hospital getting laid off? Nope, I haven't either.

I never was jealous of the guys out of college who made big bucks in business or whatever. I'd take the job security of being a doctorb and the ability to limit my travel any day of the week.

The idea that doctors are undercompensated is laughable at best, greedy at the worst. And if you choose to live in NYC or SF, too freakin bad. Move to the midwest instead of whining about the cost of living.
 
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I agree that salary is important - we deserve to be compensate well.

But these pathetic whiny stories you read here are tiresome. Whoa is me! I only make 300,000, not 400,000. You would think with the economy tanking and unemployment going up, people would appreciate actually have a job where it's practically impossible to get fired. Ever hear of 500 doctors in a hospital getting laid off? Nope, I haven't either.

I never was jealous of the guys out of college who made big bucks in business or whatever. I'd take the job security of being a doctorb and the ability to limit my travel any day of the week.

The idea that doctors are undercompensated is laughable at best, greedy at the worst. And if you choose to live in NYC or SF, too freakin bad. Move to the midwest instead of whining about the cost of living.


A+ I approve!
 
I am new to this thread and came across this by searching average salaries of physicians. How ironic?! Anyway, I know I would like to be in the Neurology Field. Either as a Neuroscientist or Neurologist, or possibly going for a MD/Phd.
The reason for my search on salaries is because I was trying to compare the average amount of debt to the average salary of a Neurologist and the time it would take for me to receive this "average salary". I have a 2 year old son and my husband is attending the Police Academy. So I have to be very careful with the amount of money we spend and the debt that I will accure. So knowing the outcome of MY SON'S well being while and after I finish Med School is VITAL. So this notion about aspiring doctors shouldn't even want to think about how much money they make is stupid to me. Yes, I have a passion for Medicine and money isn't my main reason for wanting to become a doctor, I have at least 10 other reasons for that.
There are also other factors that I'd like to calculate such as work environment, malpractice insurance, work hours and so forth. I would like to become a doctor and have the interaction with patients, figure out their problems, finding a reasonable treatment and so on. But at the same time I have to consider the factors I have mentioned before because I do have a family. On the other hand, if I go into research I would be able to help others also in different ways than a traditional doctor would. So the question about how much certain doctors make compared to their expenses is a very important question to ask. People are getting more and more ignorant and seem to blame the one person that actually took an oath to provide the best care possible to them just to turn around and sue them because of whatever reason. Some law suits are reasonable, no doubt but to hear about Physicians being sued over a simple and sometimes fixable mistake due to simple exhaustion by the doctor is insane. Another factor that I as a Pre-Med student like to consider. Another comparison I have researched is being a doctor working in the civilian world compared to working for the government such as the VA.
So what I am saying is that asking about the salary of a doctor and all of it's components is a reasonable question.

And to comment on the "nobelity" of doctors. I do believe that being a Physician is a nobel profession. But there are other nobel professions. Just as one person has mentioned on this thread: it is important to know what nobel means before one can judge and comment on the nobelity of Doctors.
For the good Lord's sake, there are names that mean "noble".
Alisha, for instance means: The True and Noble One. (the exact definition/meaning varies but it all comes out to the same.)

People who think doctors are overpaid, should definetly rethink their reasoning. Yes, from my research I have found that Physicians make a substantial amount of money compared to other professions but some of these other professions do not have the high amount of overhead expenses as Physicians do.

That's just my thinking though.
 
I don't necessarily agree with everything this guy says, but I thought that this was interesting
http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html

A Novel Look at Physician Income: Why a medical career is the wrong career if money is one of your primary motives

The cliché about rich doctors is so well-known that it verges on redundancy in the minds of many people. However, I will demonstrate how people in seemingly much less lucrative jobs can outearn doctors. For example, who would think that a UPS driver or auto mechanic could earn more than a doctor? Probably no one except me and, in a few minutes, you, too.

The January 26, 2004 edition of U.S. News & World Report said that UPS drivers earn $60,000 per year. The average physician income is usually quoted as being $160,000 to $200,000 per year, so it may seem preposterous to claim that UPS drivers can earn more than doctors. Just wait.

According to information given to me by a UPS representative on May 13, 2005, UPS drivers require no specialized education. Thus, a person could begin working for UPS immediately after high school. In contrast, a would-be doctor requires many years of education for which he is paid nothing. In fact, doctors typically incur substantial debt to pay for college and medical school. So UPS drivers are being paid while those who aspire to become doctors are paying for the privilege of pursuing their dream.

Let's analyze how this affects their net income. We will begin looking at total net income for physicians at year 8, once they graduate from medical school with an average debt around $100,000. Students may make small amounts of money while in college, but this (and much more) is immediately spent on tuition, fees, books, supplies, and other college expenses. Beer, for instance. :)

doctor_income_chart.gif

doctor_salary.gif

This data indicates that:

It takes about 18 years for a doctor to approximately equal the lifetime earnings of a UPS driver working full-time.
It takes about 27 years for a doctor to approximately equal the lifetime earnings of a UPS driver working as many hours as I did to become a doctor, then practice medicine.
In reality, it will take longer for the doc to "catch up" for the following reasons:

I did not consider the interest that doctors pay on their student loan debts. This interest often leaves doctors with more than their original debt at the end of their residency years. Thus, while they may make $160,000 (total) during a four-year residency, they may leave it with $130,000 of debt.
I calculated this comparison using a four-year residency program during years 9 through 12. Some residency programs are shorter, but many are longer (thus keeping doctors relatively impoverished for a longer time). Furthermore, many students take longer than eight years to complete college and medical school—and those are the lucky ones who make it. Most students who try to become doctors never succeed, thus incurring debt for a career that never materializes.
The average doctor salary may not even be $180,000. Some sources pegged it at $160,000.
Doctors do not earn their average salary the first year they begin working as an attending (year 13 in this example). It typically takes several years for their income to plateau. I began working for less than half (even adjusting for inflation) what I would ultimately earn as my peak income five years later.
Doctors sometimes must "buy into" the practice they wish to join. They can't just show up and say, "OK, I'm working now, so start paying me." For that privilege, they may have to shell out $100,000 or more, which is sometimes demanded as an up-front fee. Few young doctors have that kind of money, so they usually must borrow it—further increasing their debt.
Because of their schooling, the earning years for doctors are compressed into a shorter period of time, thus increasing their income tax rates relative to UPS drivers. Translation: Even if the doctor earns the same total amount of money as a UPS driver, the doc's tax rate will be higher, leaving him with less after-tax income.
Doctors must pay steep licensing fees to state and federal government regulatory agencies. They could also be sued and lose everything they've ever made.
Students often receive money from relatives and sometimes family friends because they are needy students. UPS drivers, and most other adults, are not similarly showered with such money. This money is rarely reported to the government or included in statistical analyses, so the educational cost is actually higher than you may think.
The burnout rate for doctors in some specialties is so high that doctors may quit well before age 65. For example, the average longevity for ER doctors is nine years.
Doctors do not work anything close to a 40-hour week! I worked about 110 hours per week (see * below) during my training. As an attending physician, I averaged about 40 hours per week of paid work and 15 to 20 (or more) hours per week of unpaid but mandatory work, such as working past the end of my shift to "clean up" (complete the care for) patients, do dictations, sign medical records, fill out insurance and other forms, attend various staff and committee meetings, participate in CME (continuing medical education) activities, and on and on. To make this a fair comparison for income potential, we should consider what a UPS driver could make if he worked two shifts (or another job) for years 1 through 12, then a half-time job in addition to his primary UPS job. Therefore, after 12 years such a UPS driver who worked as many hours as I did could have made $1,440,000. After 18 years, the total income would be $1,980,000, easily surpassing the total doctor income. The doctor might catch up after 27 years, if not for the aforementioned factors.
* What about the new 80 hour per week work restrictions for residents? First, it is still equivalent to working two full-time jobs. Second, that is 80 hours per week spent in the hospital. It does not account for the substantial amount of reading that residents must do in their "off hours."

UPS drivers typically do not seem to be as wealthy as doctors because, like just about everyone else, they usually begin spending money as soon as they make it. But what if we made this comparison even more fair, and had the UPS driver live as frugally as the student/doctor for years 1 through 12? If a UPS driver scrimped as I did, he could invest most of his salary, reaping the benefits of many years of compound interest.

If you are still debating about the financial wisdom of forgoing a doctor's smock for the seemingly plebeian brown UPS uniforms, consider this: Like many other workers, UPS drivers receive a raft of benefits. Many doctors receive nothing but salary (that was the case for almost every job I had as a physician). As an independent contractor, I received no health insurance, dental insurance, optical insurance, unemployment insurance, life insurance, sick pay, overtime pay, personal days, workers' compensation benefits, or pension. Furthermore, I didn't just pay the usual Social Security contribution; I also paid the portion normally contributed by the employer. A state "Small Business" tax further eroded my earnings. And I had to buy my own uniforms and pay someone to embroider my name on them!

UPS drivers are well-paid, but receive less than some other truck drivers. In the December, 2004 Time Inside Business, Bill Zollars, chairman and CEO of Yellow Roadway, the largest trucking firm in the United States, said that his average driver makes $70,000 per year in addition to good benefits.

If maximizing income is your goal, forget about being a truck driver or a doctor. On February 18, 2004, Paul Harvey reported that auto mechanics willing to move to in-demand areas can earn up to $120,000 per year, with employers eager to hire them offering inducements such as paying for their tools and education (some technicians earn two-year certificates or degrees in auto repair, while other receive only high school-level training).

If you want even more money, consider working as a contractor putting in basements. One of my friends, a well-to-do pharmaceutical representative, grumbled how he made less money than his uneducated brother-in-law who worked six months of the year building basements, netting him over $350,000 (adjusted for interim inflation). Furthermore, he usually arranged his deals so he was paid in cash, which enabled him to hide most of his income from the IRS.

Perhaps you want a job that is less intellectually demanding than building basements. If so, do what I used to do: mow lawns. At my peak, I earned wages that are now equivalent to $100 per hour. And that was just payment for my own labor. If I were smarter, I would have hired people to work for me, paid them $20 per hour, and kept the rest as profit. I could also build more of my inventions that increase the efficiency of lawn mowing, thus decreasing the time required to mow a yard. Customers pay for getting their lawns mowed, not for how many hours you waste on mowing with antiquated technology.

Want more examples? According to Forbes magazine (March 15, 2004), Oneida's workers in New York average $30 per hour with benefits. That's $60,000 per year for making eating utensils. Need more dough? In "Confessions of a Personal Trainer" in the July 12, 2004 edition of Newsweek, Mike Torchia said that he makes $150 per hour. That's $300,000 per year for 40-hour workweeks . . . for helping housewives shed flab. In the ER, I made half that for saving lives and working much longer weeks after an incomparably longer and more intensive education.


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lolz. Says the ortho resident. You may be able to swing more than 180k.
 
I am new to this thread and came across this by searching average salaries of physicians. How ironic?! Anyway, I know I would like to be in the Neurology Field. Either as a Neuroscientist or Neurologist, or possibly going for a MD/Phd.
The reason for my search on salaries is because I was trying to compare the average amount of debt to the average salary of a Neurologist and the time it would take for me to receive this "average salary". I have a 2 year old son and my husband is attending the Police Academy. So I have to be very careful with the amount of money we spend and the debt that I will accure. So knowing the outcome of MY SON'S well being while and after I finish Med School is VITAL. So this notion about aspiring doctors shouldn't even want to think about how much money they make is stupid to me. Yes, I have a passion for Medicine and money isn't my main reason for wanting to become a doctor, I have at least 10 other reasons for that.
There are also other factors that I'd like to calculate such as work environment, malpractice insurance, work hours and so forth. I would like to become a doctor and have the interaction with patients, figure out their problems, finding a reasonable treatment and so on. But at the same time I have to consider the factors I have mentioned before because I do have a family. On the other hand, if I go into research I would be able to help others also in different ways than a traditional doctor would. So the question about how much certain doctors make compared to their expenses is a very important question to ask. People are getting more and more ignorant and seem to blame the one person that actually took an oath to provide the best care possible to them just to turn around and sue them because of whatever reason. Some law suits are reasonable, no doubt but to hear about Physicians being sued over a simple and sometimes fixable mistake due to simple exhaustion by the doctor is insane. Another factor that I as a Pre-Med student like to consider. Another comparison I have researched is being a doctor working in the civilian world compared to working for the government such as the VA.
So what I am saying is that asking about the salary of a doctor and all of it's components is a reasonable question.

And to comment on the "nobelity" of doctors. I do believe that being a Physician is a nobel profession. But there are other nobel professions. Just as one person has mentioned on this thread: it is important to know what nobel means before one can judge and comment on the nobelity of Doctors.
For the good Lord's sake, there are names that mean "noble".
Alisha, for instance means: The True and Noble One. (the exact definition/meaning varies but it all comes out to the same.)

People who think doctors are overpaid, should definetly rethink their reasoning. Yes, from my research I have found that Physicians make a substantial amount of money compared to other professions but some of these other professions do not have the high amount of overhead expenses as Physicians do.

That's just my thinking though.


I think it's nobility. :) And noble. Like Barnes &.
 
If you want to laugh / waste time / feel gross, read more up on that kevin pezzi guy. Grade A kook and sleazeball.
 
Generally the highest paid docs are the ones who commit Medicare fraud and don't get caught.
 
ok here we go u mention about statistics and pple get philosophical...



How did you infer that from my statement? I said if you think you are a REAL Humanitarian pack up your bags and move to africa and india like mother theresa!!! if anything I was saying physicians are not humanitarians.....most of them anyway :D I never said we are?!?



We make 95% more than the other members of society? and does 95% of the society go through 12 years of grueling schooling...dont get me wrong i love medicine, but I dont think studying for 12 years is the "Fun part of medicine"

:rolleyes:

Do the millitary thing? That doesnt even make sense? what happens if u dont like the millitary, just because it pays for the tuition I have to go into the millitary? I guess with that rationale, then some pple should become strippers because you can pay ur tuition back faster?! huh? and how do the loan numbers work out sir? if you go to a private college 30 grand a year...comes to 120,000 end of 4 years, med school another 35 each year...already totals to 250 K? and I hate to tell you this, NOT ALL DOCTORS MAKE 250 GRAND a year....I have friends who are physicians and they make less than 100,000 a year! on average around 80,000...so please tell me especially if they are married, starting a family, paying back loans and starting a mortgage on how it all works out?!

nobody, said doctors are not paid enough..and we didnt ever whine about not getting paid enough....the original thread was to get a statistic, it then became a judgemental arguement not asking about salaries since it shouldnt matter...bs, and if ur friend got a 250 grand job, good for him, can u please give me his speciality, and which hospital he works for that pay him 250 grand a year? BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A NORM

how much do sport figures get for their line of work? how much schooling do they go to? and dont give me the stuff about talents...it takes just as much talent and skill for a surgeon to operate on a child with a tumor, and there is a life at stake!!! and the highest surgeon gets paid 400 grand a year...compare that to the 100 million contracts sports figures get for the "contribution to society"...yaddi yaddi yadda.... :rolleyes:

also live frugally? have u lived in california? I lived in MN great state, two good bedroom apartment for around 800 dollars?!!?!? unheard of

I can't find a bachelor room near my school in california under 1200?! one room with no kitchen?...so explain how u can live frugally when the expenses of one state far surpass another?

if you havent gone through the process, u cant make the generalization that loans are no big deal!!! i have 7 friends who graduated from med school, during their residency they are getting paid 30, 40 grand a year...that barely covers their living expenses let alone their loans, their 250+ loans....besides it takes them an average of 5 years after medical school to be able to pay the loans back!?! so dont give me ur friend as a viable statistic...that is NOT THE norm...

after graduating from med school, interns and residents make around 30, 40 k annually, that is in their 10th year of education!!!! argh..that is silly...I get paid more now as a research assistant than I would being an intern!!! and have absolutely zero loans to pay back if i decide to go into the phd program....

and that comment about minimum wage? what kind of statement is that...do u honestly thik all minimum wage pple are risking their lives? i have had jobs as minimum wage...and waiters, desk clerks, or a fast food teller are not exactly risking their lives...that is the price of education...go to school and u will be rewarded afterwards

and that comment about fire figthers risking their lives...yes that is very noble...and I can assure you fire fighthers are not paid minimum wage...they may not get paid as a doctor yes that is true, but they dont go to 12 years of schooling...

Nobody said doctors' lives don't work out in the end. It does, and nobody said there aren't other noble professions...there are.....this arguement has deviated from my original question of salary ranges....

and please don't again mention 95% of the population doesnt make our salary....bunch of boloney....95% of the population doenst go through 12 years of schooling, and 95% of the population doesnt have a life literally on their hands....meaning surgeons...or ER doctors....it is EXTREMELY difficult and strenous to have someone's life in your hands...that amounts a huge amount of stress...

also know this physicians have the highest suicide rates among all professions! if we had it all easy, pple wouldnt be committing suidice now would they (refer to us news and world report)? we are blamed for the failing health care system, expected to fix every medical problem known to man, and then pple complaing how we are 95% better off than the rest of society..BOLONEY :rolleyes:

have u heard of malpractice lawsuits? u make a mistake and get sued 20 million crap loads....how many fire fighters, lawyers and stock brokers have been sued to the extent of physicians?! I know the insurance pays for most of the money, but do u honestly think ur profession wont be tarnished?

yadi yadi yadi, doctors have it easy....heck no...that isnt to say other professions have it hard as well....but why compare apples to oranges...fire fighters have an extremely tough job as well, but that is not the same comparison!!!

u shouldnt compare fire fighters, police officers such professions to medicine, because it is not comparable...fire fighrers and police officers also have an extremely stressful workload...but when I made comparisons of salary...it was to lawyers, dentists and silicon valley "elite" not to minimum wage pple.....that doesnt make sense..dont compare those!!!

a periodontist with a less amount of schooling can make a 1 million dollars a year!!! since dentists price fix their own services and can charge anything they wish.....argh what does 95% of the society have to do with being a physician.....sigh.... :rolleyes:

all in all physicians have it well at the end...no one is complaining about that...however, asking a question about salary should not merit statements like "dont complain so much u have it easy" yah right.....


You are complaining way too much and seem like you were way too spoiled. My dad supported a family of 4 on less than $30,000 a year. There are people who don't have jack, some people just cant seem to get that through their head. Compare that to a Ph.D who does basically the same amount of schooling if not more than an M.D. and gets paid half what an M.D does. 4 years of grad school, generally a couple post grad 2 years each, come on dude stop moaning. It's not cool. There are people out there who don't have a thing!! Get that?? A thing. If I'm making $400K+ as an orthopedic I will bloom a bunch of that money and start a hospital in Israel. I'm not gonna lie, I would love to live comfortable and be flashy and wine n dine but I do also realize that people out there need help and you will receive large increases in salary with more experience and the loans shouldn't even be an issue. Don't make it seem like 100K in debt making $80 (which I doubt many make anyway) is going to be a living hell. You are more than comfortable as an MD so don't sit there and complain like you're not. I also don't mind the healthcare bill as long as it is for the right reasons (which it seems to be) I'm sure no one has read the entire bill.
 
I don't necessarily agree with everything this guy says, but I thought that this was interesting
http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html

A Novel Look at Physician Income: Why a medical career is the wrong career if money is one of your primary motives

The cliché about rich doctors is so well-known that it verges on redundancy in the minds of many people. However, I will demonstrate how people in seemingly much less lucrative jobs can outearn doctors. For example, who would think that a UPS driver or auto mechanic could earn more than a doctor? Probably no one except me and, in a few minutes, you, too.

The January 26, 2004 edition of U.S. News & World Report said that UPS drivers earn $60,000 per year. The average physician income is usually quoted as being $160,000 to $200,000 per year, so it may seem preposterous to claim that UPS drivers can earn more than doctors. Just wait.

According to information given to me by a UPS representative on May 13, 2005, UPS drivers require no specialized education. Thus, a person could begin working for UPS immediately after high school. In contrast, a would-be doctor requires many years of education for which he is paid nothing. In fact, doctors typically incur substantial debt to pay for college and medical school. So UPS drivers are being paid while those who aspire to become doctors are paying for the privilege of pursuing their dream.

Let's analyze how this affects their net income. We will begin looking at total net income for physicians at year 8, once they graduate from medical school with an average debt around $100,000. Students may make small amounts of money while in college, but this (and much more) is immediately spent on tuition, fees, books, supplies, and other college expenses. Beer, for instance. :)

doctor_income_chart.gif

doctor_salary.gif

This data indicates that:

It takes about 18 years for a doctor to approximately equal the lifetime earnings of a UPS driver working full-time.
It takes about 27 years for a doctor to approximately equal the lifetime earnings of a UPS driver working as many hours as I did to become a doctor, then practice medicine.
In reality, it will take longer for the doc to "catch up" for the following reasons:

I did not consider the interest that doctors pay on their student loan debts. This interest often leaves doctors with more than their original debt at the end of their residency years. Thus, while they may make $160,000 (total) during a four-year residency, they may leave it with $130,000 of debt.
I calculated this comparison using a four-year residency program during years 9 through 12. Some residency programs are shorter, but many are longer (thus keeping doctors relatively impoverished for a longer time). Furthermore, many students take longer than eight years to complete college and medical school—and those are the lucky ones who make it. Most students who try to become doctors never succeed, thus incurring debt for a career that never materializes.
The average doctor salary may not even be $180,000. Some sources pegged it at $160,000.
Doctors do not earn their average salary the first year they begin working as an attending (year 13 in this example). It typically takes several years for their income to plateau. I began working for less than half (even adjusting for inflation) what I would ultimately earn as my peak income five years later.
Doctors sometimes must "buy into" the practice they wish to join. They can't just show up and say, "OK, I'm working now, so start paying me." For that privilege, they may have to shell out $100,000 or more, which is sometimes demanded as an up-front fee. Few young doctors have that kind of money, so they usually must borrow it—further increasing their debt.
Because of their schooling, the earning years for doctors are compressed into a shorter period of time, thus increasing their income tax rates relative to UPS drivers. Translation: Even if the doctor earns the same total amount of money as a UPS driver, the doc's tax rate will be higher, leaving him with less after-tax income.
Doctors must pay steep licensing fees to state and federal government regulatory agencies. They could also be sued and lose everything they've ever made.
Students often receive money from relatives and sometimes family friends because they are needy students. UPS drivers, and most other adults, are not similarly showered with such money. This money is rarely reported to the government or included in statistical analyses, so the educational cost is actually higher than you may think.
The burnout rate for doctors in some specialties is so high that doctors may quit well before age 65. For example, the average longevity for ER doctors is nine years.
Doctors do not work anything close to a 40-hour week! I worked about 110 hours per week (see * below) during my training. As an attending physician, I averaged about 40 hours per week of paid work and 15 to 20 (or more) hours per week of unpaid but mandatory work, such as working past the end of my shift to "clean up" (complete the care for) patients, do dictations, sign medical records, fill out insurance and other forms, attend various staff and committee meetings, participate in CME (continuing medical education) activities, and on and on. To make this a fair comparison for income potential, we should consider what a UPS driver could make if he worked two shifts (or another job) for years 1 through 12, then a half-time job in addition to his primary UPS job. Therefore, after 12 years such a UPS driver who worked as many hours as I did could have made $1,440,000. After 18 years, the total income would be $1,980,000, easily surpassing the total doctor income. The doctor might catch up after 27 years, if not for the aforementioned factors.
* What about the new 80 hour per week work restrictions for residents? First, it is still equivalent to working two full-time jobs. Second, that is 80 hours per week spent in the hospital. It does not account for the substantial amount of reading that residents must do in their "off hours."

UPS drivers typically do not seem to be as wealthy as doctors because, like just about everyone else, they usually begin spending money as soon as they make it. But what if we made this comparison even more fair, and had the UPS driver live as frugally as the student/doctor for years 1 through 12? If a UPS driver scrimped as I did, he could invest most of his salary, reaping the benefits of many years of compound interest.

If you are still debating about the financial wisdom of forgoing a doctor's smock for the seemingly plebeian brown UPS uniforms, consider this: Like many other workers, UPS drivers receive a raft of benefits. Many doctors receive nothing but salary (that was the case for almost every job I had as a physician). As an independent contractor, I received no health insurance, dental insurance, optical insurance, unemployment insurance, life insurance, sick pay, overtime pay, personal days, workers' compensation benefits, or pension. Furthermore, I didn't just pay the usual Social Security contribution; I also paid the portion normally contributed by the employer. A state "Small Business" tax further eroded my earnings. And I had to buy my own uniforms and pay someone to embroider my name on them!

UPS drivers are well-paid, but receive less than some other truck drivers. In the December, 2004 Time Inside Business, Bill Zollars, chairman and CEO of Yellow Roadway, the largest trucking firm in the United States, said that his average driver makes $70,000 per year in addition to good benefits.

If maximizing income is your goal, forget about being a truck driver or a doctor. On February 18, 2004, Paul Harvey reported that auto mechanics willing to move to in-demand areas can earn up to $120,000 per year, with employers eager to hire them offering inducements such as paying for their tools and education (some technicians earn two-year certificates or degrees in auto repair, while other receive only high school-level training).

If you want even more money, consider working as a contractor putting in basements. One of my friends, a well-to-do pharmaceutical representative, grumbled how he made less money than his uneducated brother-in-law who worked six months of the year building basements, netting him over $350,000 (adjusted for interim inflation). Furthermore, he usually arranged his deals so he was paid in cash, which enabled him to hide most of his income from the IRS.

Perhaps you want a job that is less intellectually demanding than building basements. If so, do what I used to do: mow lawns. At my peak, I earned wages that are now equivalent to $100 per hour. And that was just payment for my own labor. If I were smarter, I would have hired people to work for me, paid them $20 per hour, and kept the rest as profit. I could also build more of my inventions that increase the efficiency of lawn mowing, thus decreasing the time required to mow a yard. Customers pay for getting their lawns mowed, not for how many hours you waste on mowing with antiquated technology.

Want more examples? According to Forbes magazine (March 15, 2004), Oneida's workers in New York average $30 per hour with benefits. That's $60,000 per year for making eating utensils. Need more dough? In "Confessions of a Personal Trainer" in the July 12, 2004 edition of Newsweek, Mike Torchia said that he makes $150 per hour. That's $300,000 per year for 40-hour workweeks . . . for helping housewives shed flab. In the ER, I made half that for saving lives and working much longer weeks after an incomparably longer and more intensive education.


click the link

When medical schools ask what is your back up plan?

UPS Driver... hand them a print out of this thread with this post highlighted.

UPS is going to be mighty competitive to get into now.
 
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