lowest Step1 score and matching?

[chef]

is there a step 1 score that will PREVENT you from matching in derm no matter what other qualifications, great step 2 score, papers, connections, phonecalls or publications you have?

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[asmallchild]

I think a failing score should do it.

 

[xyzyx]

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf
This was the most recent one I know of...
If you look on page 34 (out of 139) of the pdf document, it seems like 2 people with score in the 181-190 range matched. (3 if you count non-US seniors).

So apparently there's no score that's low enough to count you out... (ok fine ... no one matched with a score under 180... but only 1 person applied with that score. )

 

[Dermguy]

is there a step 1 score that will PREVENT you from matching in derm no matter what other qualifications, great step 2 score, papers, connections, phonecalls or publications you have?

I think this is a good question, which deserves some real feedback. Many programs will have a cutoff of some sort, but most are quiet about what that cutoff is. For some places it is 240 (one place I interviewed told me explicitly that this was their cutoff), but for others it will be 230 or even lower. If you look at the NRMP data from previous years you will see that some people match even with barely passing scores, so, clearly not everywhere has a firm cutoff point.

I guess you are asking this because you or someone you know is considering Derm but has a less-than-perfect Step 1. My advice is this: if you want Derm badly enough to risk not matching and having to face one of the many alternatives, go for it. Hope this helps.

 

[OntheRoof55]

i think if your score is mid 230's then a high step 2 score can off set it...below that its prob difficult to match...some programs care more about the scores than others...depends on the PD i think...

 

[asmallchild]

I'd say Step 1 is very important. It was pretty much the only outstanding thing on my application.

 

[IzzyMD09]

So did anyone match this year with say less than a 235???

I would be curious to know the outcome as well

 

[sensitive skin]

So did anyone match this year with say less than a 235???

I would be curious to know the outcome as well

Yes, there was one. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7895118#post7895118

I also know of someone who scored between 225-230 and matched at one of the biggest (best?) derm programs in the country, and she didn't even rotate there. I know that her letter (from top academic dermatologist) factored greatly into her success.

So yes, it is possible. You must have other things going for you, like these two above examples.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I hope you don't mind me butting into your forum. I read it a lot as derm is similar to my intended field in many ways, but you guys are infinitely more lively than the PRS peeps.

The mean Step 1 last year (2008) for successfully matched candidates was 238, with a median of 240. Half above, half below the median-- that's the definition. In 2009, there were 338 derm positions (PGY-1 + PGY-2); if the Step 1 score average held constant then 169 people would have scored at or below 240. Let's inflate the average a bit (bumping it up a couple of points, as is the trend), and say 160 scored at or below 240 this year. Let's be even more generous and say a disproportionate number of those people scored 236, 237, 238 and 239-- twenty.

So at least 140 people, statistically speaking, scored at or below 235 and matched into dermatology. They simply don't want to post on sdn. The people in the 250s and 260s, on the other hand, are bursting at the seams to do so. This is called "self-selection," or perhaps "blowing one's own horn." Or, if you fancy, sucking one's own... you know.

As Sensitive Skin noted, however, people with seemingly sub-par stats have other attributes that make their applications attractive. It needn't be a PhD with 4 first author publications in journals with impact factors of 40, like the person referenced, but there's something (high grades, good research, true passion for the field, excellent performance on an away rotation, strong letters, etc).

 

[Icecold]

.

 

[asmallchild]

As Sensitive Skin noted, however, people with seemingly sub-par stats have other attributes that make their applications attractive. It needn't be a PhD with 4 first author publications in journals with impact factors of 40, like the person referenced, but there's something (high grades, good research, true passion for the field, excellent performance on an away rotation, strong letters, etc).

PhD helps.

I'm not sure high grades helps, everyone has to have these to even think of applying for derm. AOA does help immensely though.

Good research is always helpful.

True passion for the field sounds good but with subpar stats, many are unlikely to make it to the interview stage to convey this. And of course, I'm a bit of a cynic but I think this is something that is easily faked/masked especially in a cursory 10 min interview. Let's be honest here, we're not undergoing intensive psychological interrogation during interviews.

Excellent performances on away rotations can also be tricky. Unlike plastics, derm rotations (at least the ones I was on) tend to be observational experiences. Very easy to not mess up on these rotations. Very tricky to shine.

I will also agree that strong letters are an absolute must if you're trying to mask subpar stats.

 

[asmallchild]

Pardon my MS0 ignorance....what is PRS?

Plastic and reconstructive surgery.

 

[Icecold]

Plastic and reconstructive surgery.

Thanks...I better get used to all the acronyms.

 

[CandyApple09]

Yes, there was one. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7895118#post7895118

I also know of someone who scored between 225-230 and matched at one of the biggest (best?) derm programs in the country, and she didn't even rotate there. I know that her letter (from top academic dermatologist) factored greatly into her success.

So yes, it is possible. You must have other things going for you, like these two above examples.

By the way, which program do people think is the best overall?

 

[N-Surge]

By the way, which program do people think is the best overall?

Try not to look at it this way. Rather, realize that in the end it is the program that you Match into.

The time spent will be what you personally make of it, in my opinion. Dermatology is a great field, with happy, friendly people, lots of open avenues for research, and a mix of medical management, procedures, opportunities for teaching, and science to keep one busy.

 

[Dermguy]

By the way, which program do people think is the best overall?

I think it is incredibly difficult to name a single program "Best Overall." Many "top" programs work their residents >60 hours a week. Does this hurt their "Best Overall" status? I think so. Only a couple of places have inpatient derm. Does this make them "top programs?" A lot of people don't think so, but I personally love inpatient Derm so I thought those programs were a good fit. I guess I would say there are a lot of "Best Overall" programs, many of which have the usual top-program names. In addition to the usual suspects (Harvard, NYU, Stanford, UCLA, UCSF, Mayo, UPenn and others) I would add Houston, Emory, Miami, Michigan, Henry Ford (I know people who won't agree on me with that one), UT Southwestern, and probably a few others that just aren't coming to mind right now.

 

[asmallchild]

Iowa tends to be incredibly popular year in and year out.

 

[Dermguy]

Iowa tends to be incredibly popular year in and year out.

I definitely agree Iowa should be in the mix. My bad.

 

[N-Surge]

If we are going to throw names out there then I would add UMichigan, WashU, and Indy (I'm biased).