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That's a useless point. Schools in the Caribbean still award MDs, doesn't mean people should go there.
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LUCOM inaugural class stats...
Started by BestDoctorEver
It was meant more as a joke anyways. I'm looking forward to seeing what their match rates will be when its time for me to apply to medical school.
I attended a Catholic high school and the administration there banned the Harry Potter club because they considered it to be witchcraft.
On the relevant note, I can't believe AOA has accredited this school of institutionalized hate and creationism. Even their Dean was apparently in some sort of legal battle a few years ago
http://medicalboard.iowa.gov/Legal/Martin,RonnieB.,D.O.-03-2000-999.pdf
"The Board outlined a number of concerns, including a failure to perform appropriate physical examinations, failure to maintain appropriate medical records, falsified records, and inappropriate practice concerning medications." (page 8)
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Where did you get that part from?
http://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/index.cfm?PID=30383
"The inaugural class, representing 30 universities, 25 states, and two countries, has a median MCAT score of 24 and a median GPA of 3.4. "
"The inaugural class, representing 30 universities, 25 states, and two countries, has a median MCAT score of 24 and a median GPA of 3.4. "
It went down no surprise there. And thats median not even mean. Honestly this is a disgrace. (school looks nice atleast).
A piece of Caribbean in Virginia.
I'll be on a watch out that my physician is not a graduate in some years from now.
Same I would be scared to go to a doctor from here. I also have carribean doctors who are good.
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While I am not supporting LUCOM or bashing it in anyway, every doctor I've talked to have said test scores and even 'high quality' medical scores are great but you learn far more out of the classroom --for example your residency than you learn inside. All have said that they had been told that medical school grades and test scores had no correlation with a physician's later quality and they all truly believed that.
That said, obviously if the school produces students with borderline scores who land crappy residencies, I can see why this school wouldn't be the wisest choice. However if it produces average to above average students (score wise), why the scare on producing unqualified doctors??
That said, obviously if the school produces students with borderline scores who land crappy residencies, I can see why this school wouldn't be the wisest choice. However if it produces average to above average students (score wise), why the scare on producing unqualified doctors??
They waived their already disgracefully low MCAT requirements for many of their students (per someone with access to that information).
This is hilarious because I also encountered a similar thing at my University! Although a private school with no official religion attached, there was a Catholic service on campus once a week. I used to attend because I had grown up Catholic, but hearing the priest preach against witchcraft and specifically Harry Potter only helped me moving away from catholicism. That being said, I went to catholic school my whole life up until college and I did not really have any problems with science or education as a student. There are actually many groups within the catholic church that really encourage science..look at the Jesuit schools like Loyola Chicago or Georgetown University.
edit: The Jesuit Order is a very liberal sect of the Catholic Church. The current pope is a Jesuit and hence his interest in science and education.
Don't take this the wrong way, but let's suppose 10 years from now the pediatrician seeing your child is a graduate from LUCOM but did his residency at Johns Hopkins. Would you still be wary of him?
Yes, because they're almost certainly tripping on something really good to hallucinate a LUCOM grad who got anywhere near JHU.
Ok then, I suppose you are smarter than JHU adcoms...
Look, people were clamoring that Rocky Vista was going to be the fall of the Osteopathic profession years ago and look where they are now. Yes, the graduates don't enter into Harvard residencies, but it is not the blight on the profession everyone thought it to be.
lel. 2 countries? USA... and Canada? Are they that proud to have a Canadian or two?
It's all hypothetical, seeing as LUCOM has no grads yet. I just hope as future physicians we avoid ranking colleagues based on where they went to school but rather on the quality of the care they provide.
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I think they were asking why a JHU adcom would be involved, as opposed to say a program's PD, DME, attendings, and possibly residents (the people who may actually be involved in choosing a candidate for residency).
Lmao
That would never happen. To answer this insane hypothetical still no. I don't want my kid seeing religious fundamentalists as there doctors.
Where did you hear this?
Roger, I get your point.
OK then, we got to the crux of the matter here. Your problem is with doctors who are religious and not their quality/lack thereof.
I have no problem with religious doctors. I have a problem with fundamentalists. Anyone educated by a fundamentalist school isnt trustworthy.
There abysmal stats don't help anything either.
I guess I just don't follow your definition of a fundamentalist religious doctor. I would really like to know how you define fundamentalist (really, I'm not trying to 'get at you' or anything).
For me, I could care less if my doctor was an atheist, a deist, or even a polygamist. As long as he is good at what he does, I don't need to know his educational background.
But then why do you say you know some good doctors who came from the Caribbean? Their stats are even worse than LUCOM...
Fundamentalists take things to the extreme. An example for lucom is that they don't believe in evolution. Not going to a doctor from that school. No way.
St George's MCAT average is 2 points higher and GPA is the same. Not saying the low stats is the reason (its the fundamentalist religion) just saying it doesn't help.
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Alright, I got it. Thank you for the explanation.
However, be aware that you may, in the future, interact with LUCOM graduates. Remember not to take things to the extreme yourself and be open minded about working alongside them if karma decides to bring you together.
I have no problems working with them. However I wouldnt go see them myself
Fair enough 🙂
There are many doctors that are religious fundamentalists and/or who don't believe in evolution. Be careful espousing these views IRL, you may offend colleagues, patients, etc.
Usually doctors / scientists believe in evolution. If I found out my doctor was like that I would find a new one asap.
It's OK to not believe in certain parts of evolution and many scientists and doctors certainly do it. But Liberty University goes extra miles teaching their nonsensual creationism theories:
http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-sciences/creation/
Aside from that, they are known for inviting bigots to campus like this guy:
That's your perogative, but it strikes me as particularly ignorant. And I'm an evolutionist that isn't very religious.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "Bigot":
a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group). : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
From the dictionary definition of 'bigot', we are all bigots in one shape, way, or form.
Hey if its ignorant then so be it. I'm just not comfortable with people that can ignore obviously scientifically valid theories and then trust that person to make scientific decisions.
Not to argue but that is a pretty ignorant way to think of it... There is no possible way that you could have the knowledge or experience in the vastness of all medical and research areas to have a clue on what people believe and how it affects their work...
I work at a medical school and I would argue about 40% of doctors/researchers that I spend time with believe in creationism to the core. Why? because their religious creeds teach them to believe it and because in the real world in America (aka not SDN), people dont actually discredit their hard work because of religious beliefs. Honestly what they believe on this sense has absolutely nothing to do with how they perform at their job. I can tell you with 100% certainty that their JOB (its just a job) will not sway their religious convictions.
One of the best family physicians I know, who diagnosed a disease I had been plagued with for years (after UMD doctors couldnt) and who diagnosed my fathers brain cancer (after JHU docs couldnt figure it out), is a devoutly religious man. He also teaches classes at several churches. I can tell you with 100% certainty that his belief in creationism does not affect his diagnostic ability (he beat out the UMD and JHU docs) or his ability to be an amazing physician with a truly humble heart founded on servitude.
I usually dont get riled up here on SDN, but everyone should really watch their words when it comes to religious stuff. Not only because you could offend a future colleague or someone on admissions (as mentioned above), but also because again there is just no possible way you could know how all religious/non religious physicians act towards their patients.
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Yup. LLU doesn't even allow students to drink alcohol. Somehow that hasn't caused a collapse of the MD profession.
The idea behind those religious people is this:
At the end of life what is there? Some people believe it is just a hole in the ground. Others belief in a higher power and an afterlife. While others believe in reincarnation. For people who are devoutly religious, to the point of believing things that cant be scientifically proven, their thought is "I would rather believe in this and find out at the end of life that it really is just a hole in the ground, than get to the end of life (death) and find out that I was wrong, and lose everything (eternity/reincarnation/whatever)."
I can understand how THAT type of conviction would draw people away from believing what a scientist has said about one very tiny part in the grand scheme of all scientific fields. Because they believe in creationism, does that mean they dont believe in vaccines? or the benefits of surgery? or every other scientific facts based on hard evidence? Absolutely not. It means that they disregard this one very small, very particular area of science that specifically contradicts what they internally feel called to believe.
It just so happens that this one particular area has absolutely nothing to do with how good a physician is. Go figure. And it turns out that physicians who can remark on their patient's physical, emotional, and spiritual well being consistently get higher ratings (aka are "better" doctors). This is the whole foundation of the DO philosophy btw.... just thought I would add that. Read up the mission of 9/10 DO schools...
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"I am libruulllll and sooooooo open-minded."
"I don't like backward hick towns and schools full of people who think differently than me"
Where do you draw the line? I guess if my doctor doesn't believe that humans caused global warming then I need to find a new one. Because somehow every scientific discipline is directly related to the practice of medicine...
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Meh I don't really see how evolution would come up in practice. I have no idea what my physicians think about it. What I care about is how my physician treats me. If it's crappy because of my sexuality, or they are cruel/judgemental towards me I'm going to find someone else. Speakers like in that video make me fear that LU grads won't treat LGBTQ patients with respect.
Agreed I'm very concerned with lbgtq patients and lucom doctors.
Yep. If the professors believe that sex during menstruation is "dishonorable" and watching pornography messes with your "virtue", this points to personal feelings/convictions getting mixed into a medical education. It's not the place of a doctor to judge someone for when they have sex (their argument of endometriosis risk being increased is not true), whether or not they watch porn, or anything else that does not actually detrimentally affect health.
It's concerning to me that they might teach that these things are detrimental to health regardless of the majority of scientific literature in opposition to these views. It's like teaching creationism in the face of scientific literature. They argue that fundamentalist views won't be included in the medical education... but I suppose only time will tell.
^ right. Are they going to lecture their female patients not to have period sex?
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