M1 is Done, Bring on M2! (Ask a Non-Trad [Almost] Anything)

[Eccesignum]

Hey everyone! I'm a non-trad in my late thirties, and just finished M1. Some of you posting and lurking here probably know me; I was on this board extensively while figuring out the application process, and if it weren't for SDN I probably wouldn't be here now. 2016 Non-Trad Applicants' Progress Thread 4 Lyfe.

Anyway, I did a mini-AMA over M1 winter break and wanted to offer to do it again, in case anyone has random questions. I'm not an adcom or an official authority on anything, just one person with one experience that I'm happy to share if it helps someone here. Ask away.

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[GreenDuck12]

Hey everyone! I'm a non-trad in my late thirties, and just finished M1. Some of you posting and lurking here probably know me; I was on this board extensively while figuring out the application process, and if it weren't for SDN I probably wouldn't be here now. 2016 Non-Trad Applicants' Progress Thread 4 Lyfe.

Anyway, I did a mini-AMA over M1 winter break and wanted to offer to do it again, in case anyone has random questions. I'm not an adcom or an official authority on anything, just one person with one experience that I'm happy to share if it helps someone here. Ask away.

Two questions for you:
- During the application/interview process, what questions were you asked that might be "unique" to non-traditional, older applicants?
- During M1, what challenges (if any) did you encounter with professors and classmates related to being a non-traditional student and how did you approach them?

 

[Eccesignum]

Two questions for you:
- During the application/interview process, what questions were you asked that might be "unique" to non-traditional, older applicants?

This will be specific to the applicant, as quite a few interviewers will have your file and will ask questions based on things you write. Almost everyone will ask you something about your path, or ask you to tell your whole story, and probe for the why medicine and why now? answer. Apart from that, some more memorable ones for me:

"Tell me about your first experience with death, and has the way you handle death changed since?" (I have prior work experience in healthcare)
"What was your biggest frustration or hardship in finding care? How do you feel that'll affect you as a physician later?" (After I mentioned I had a long period in life when I had no health insurance)
"Do you feel there are particular skills you've learned in other jobs that'll help you as a physician?"
"What do you value most at this point in your life?"

I don't remember exact wording but one interviewer started a conversation about how technology has changed healthcare in the last 10-15 years and how it's been difficult to many to adjust, and wanted me to talk about adjusting to major change like that that has and likely will happen in my lifetime. I thought that was a really interesting exchange.

And one that really struck me...at a certain school I was asked about my childhood and I talked about growing up fairly poor in a very rough neighborhood. She asked about my childhood friends. I know two are still exactly where we grew up. One has since died of an overdose. She asked (very gently), "So...why are you here?" I had to think about that a long time before I answered. I still think about it to this day.

There were a lot of other questions that I thought were really wonderful. Sometimes you'll get tailored questions, sometimes they'll pull questions they ask everyone. In whatever case, let your maturity shine.

- During M1, what challenges (if any) did you encounter with professors and classmates related to being a non-traditional student and how did you approach them?

Classmates, almost none. I look rather young, and most people in my class had no idea I was nearly 40 until halfway through our first block when I made a joke about it in small group and their eyes went 0.0, haha. Now most people who know me by name know I'm a non-trad, and honestly it's been a very good experience. They're fully accepting of me, completely acknowledge and embrace that I have a different viewpoint, and it's a source of humor a lot of times. I have a few "adopted kids" in my class

Professors are actually the harder part. I find many make assumptions about our general age, expecting everyone to be 23-25, and can be irritatingly patronizing sometimes. Some of the language they use in lecture I've found weirdly infantilizing, especially in our non-science lectures where they teach how to deal with patients, etc. I've sat through a bunch of "Well you know, when you finally get a job in the real world..." intros that made me sigh. But I know it's just because it's what they're used to dealing with. Overall I let it gloss over. The professors that I've actually come to know and have a good relationship with know me better. You'll find the ones you gel with.

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone! I'm a non-trad in my late thirties, and just finished M1. Some of you posting and lurking here probably know me; I was on this board extensively while figuring out the application process, and if it weren't for SDN I probably wouldn't be here now. 2016 Non-Trad Applicants' Progress Thread 4 Lyfe.

Anyway, I did a mini-AMA over M1 winter break and wanted to offer to do it again, in case anyone has random questions. I'm not an adcom or an official authority on anything, just one person with one experience that I'm happy to share if it helps someone here. Ask away.

Ecce! How are you doing????

 

[Eccesignum]

Ecce! How are you doing????

Goro! It's been a ride, but zero regrets. The year went so fast. Hope your next crop of advisees are doing well

 

[Goro]

Goro! It's been a ride, but zero regrets. The year went so fast. Hope your next crop of advisees are doing well

 

[RocuROMANium]

During the application process did you ever feel that your nontraditional background was a strong point, a weak point, neither, or both?

 

[Eccesignum]

During the application process did you ever feel that your nontraditional background was a strong point, a weak point, neither, or both?

Strong point. Age is neither here nor there but maturity is a huge, massive plus in the process...I can't overstate this enough. I was told multiple times during acceptance calls that my maturity had really impressed the interviewer.

It comes down to how you present yourself, both on paper and in person. Whether you're 25 or 40, good insight on your path will mean a lot; by the same token whether you're 25 or 40, coming across as immature will sink you.

 

[@Hazel-rah]

What did you learn and what did you already know? Were any aspects of the curriculum easy for you because of your healthcare background? Were any much harder for you than classmates because of non-trad or age or other reason?

 

[timephone]

Was your first year as difficult as you thought it would be? More or less? Can you compare the challenge to any previous experiences in your life?

 

[Eccesignum]

What did you learn and what did you already know? Were any aspects of the curriculum easy for you because of your healthcare background? Were any much harder for you than classmates because of non-trad or age or other reason?

Our curriculum is systems based. First six months of M1 were basic sciences, then in the spring we had two organ systems. I was very glad I'd taken some upper-div science courses before I came, as some of the science classes went very, very fast. If I hadn't had exposure to biochem or immunology before I don't think I would have done as well (and I strongly encourage pre-meds to take as much upper-div biological science as they can before med school). I find I know a little of the organ systems material from a practical standpoint, but I never learned most of the in-depth physiology and the details of pathology that I have to know now.

I think my background comes into play most in our clinical practice days. In a not-so-great way because I'd learned to do exams, etc in a way that got me info that I needed for my then-job. Now I'm learning to go much more in depth, and to a point that involves un-learning some old habits. But also in a great way because I'm used to being around patients, which sounds like a small thing but isn't. For a lot of people, the first time being around the sick in a stressful situation is quite tough (especially when those sick are vulnerable, cranky, impatient...all the things we've all been at some point or another when sick and fearful). Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of situations where I still get the deer in headlights look too, but not as much as years ago. It helps immensely that I've had the experience that I have.

 

[Eccesignum]

Was your first year as difficult as you thought it would be? More or less? Can you compare the challenge to any previous experiences in your life?

I expected it to involve a great sacrifice of time and mental energy, but nothing really prepares you for just how much. I almost failed my very first exam, but I'm lucky in that I was flexible enough to realize that what I was doing wasn't working -- and I was okay with changing that. I found rather early what "works" for me in terms of learning methods, and I've performed much, much better ever since. I think flexibility is the real key. You'll come in, get smacked in the face with the sudden overload, and either barrel ahead with what you've always done...or continually reassess and readjust.

There's nothing I can really compare it to. M1 is, in essence, a full-time job in terms of your time. Then you've got things going on outside of the classroom that you need to keep up with. There's pressure to perform well, pressure to participate in outside leadership, pressure to do research, pressure from family in some cases...some people handle it well and some don't. Time management is absolutely critical, and I think it's much harder for people who haven't had to deal with that before.

I think one of the hardest things about it for me is the constant (and I mean constant) knowledge that there are things I need to do. There's no 'leaving work at work' and being able to have all my free time to myself. I have to always be aware of my workload and budget my free time carefully. That can be tough when you're used to seeing a day off in your calendar and knowing you can just relax and do whatever you want. Now, when the weekend or a holiday comes I have to be serious with myself about where I'm at and spent some of that time with school material. It takes time to get used to.

Still no regrets though...not a single one

 

[RocuROMANium]

It seems like the structure of the curriculum of medical school is much different than undergrad. Is this true? Also, do you plan on doing research this summer?

 

[Shotapp]

How did you approach studying for your first exam? What changes did you make to help you become more efficient/successful?

 

[Eccesignum]

It seems like the structure of the curriculum of medical school is much different than undergrad. Is this true? Also, do you plan on doing research this summer?

Schools vary, of course, in the way they set up the material and their methods (lecture vs PBL, for instance). But in general, it's much more fast and furious than undergrad. Our biochemistry class, for example, covered everything I'd learned in Biochem I and part of Biochem II in one month. What you'd spend a week on in undergrad is one or two lectures in med school.

Yes, I'm doing some research over summer. I'm fortunate that my medical school has research going on in an area I'm very interested in, so I hopped on.

 

[Eccesignum]

How did you approach studying for your first exam? What changes did you make to help you become more efficient/successful?

I underestimated the amount of detail I needed to know (this was in anatomy). I thought the amount of work I put into undergrad anatomy would be enough. Memorize structures, spit them back out.

Oh ho ho ho nope. Found that out the painful way. Not only did I need to know what everything was, but I had to get comfortable with second and third order questions, which meant not only did I have to know where things were but how they affected things far downstream.

I carved out much more time to spend in the cadaver lab after that. Reached out to two classmates who seemed to have their **** together, and asked to study with them when they went into the lab. I got on their schedule (I was amazed how much more time they spent in that lab than I had) and we gave each other 'assignments', like coming to the lab the next day with questions we'd written for each other. Opened up a new world of looking at things with the connections in mind rather than just labels.

Once we got to the book sciences I paid attention to what made things stick for me. In biochem, for example, drawing things out made me focus and remember, especially using colors that then sparked memories later. In other classes repetition programs like Anki worked very well for me (in organ systems later it became invaluable). I had always known that teaching others helped me learn and so I always made time for classmates who asked me for help with something they were confused on.

Each class for me has been a little different and I've had to really pay attention to whether I was learning effectively or not. But anatomy taught me the really important thing -- that I need to learn deeper than just X --> Y. I need to know A--> B and in some situations C --> N and O by way of P if Q doesn't exist --> Y and Z, and what happens to P if I do something to B.

Our biochem professor once said something like "If you understand the underlying process you should rarely have to brute-force memorize anything". And I've found that to be quite true.

 

[Shotapp]

If I hadn't had exposure to biochem or immunology before I don't think I would have done as well (and I strongly encourage pre-meds to take as much upper-div biological science as they can before med school).

What upper-level sciences do you recommend to take that will make the transition to Medical school a tiny bit easier?

What do you do to destress when you are feeling overwhelmed?

 

[Eccesignum]

What upper-level sciences do you recommend to take that will make the transition to Medical school a tiny bit easier?

What do you do to destress when you are feeling overwhelmed?

Big help: Biochem I and II (I think BC I is a requirement at most schools now that it's on the MCAT), Cell Biology, Immunology, Microbiology, Genetics

Lower priority but nice to have: Intro Neuroscience, Epidemiology/Public Health, Embryology

(Note, I say this based on the way my curriculum was structured, YMMV for emphasis at other schools)

I'm a nerd and like to shoot things on the PS4 when I have a hot minute . I've started running for the first time in my life, which is pretty lulzy when you're already past 35 but I've stuck with it (even if I don't run terribly fast) and it does make me feel better when I'm wound up and stressed. Especially as I live in a safe neighborhood, so I can run at 10pm if I want to and it's fine.

I've also got a very social cat who loves to sit in my lap and purr, which is better therapy than you might think

 

[mavric1298]

Out of curiuosity, have you been making your own cards, or studying Bro's deck?


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

 

[Eccesignum]

Out of curiuosity, have you been making your own cards, or studying Bro's deck?


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

I have Bro's deck downloaded, but for class I make my own. First Aid doesn't cover the depth that you need to know on a focused exam for a particular block. To give you scope, I made 874 cards in the second half of neuro block alone.

Over summer I'll probably use Bro's (among other resources, obviously) a bit as I now go back and review for high yield material from the last year.

(P.S. Long Live Snugseal)

 

[shnarf9892]

Do you have a family (spouse/SO and kid(s))? If so, how did they react to your change in workload going into medical school? I've been married for 5 years now this month, and we have a toddler. I spend a lot of time thinking about if I will get to spend much time with them once I get in to med school.

 

[Eccesignum]

Do you have a family (spouse/SO and kid(s))? If so, how did they react to your change in workload going into medical school? I've been married for 5 years now this month, and we have a toddler. I spend a lot of time thinking about if I will get to spend much time with them once I get in to med school.

None of the above. There are a lot of in-school folks on this board with spouse and/or kids, though, who I'm sure would be happy to talk to you if you started a thread (and are welcome to post in this one if they happen to see this).

 

[Shotapp]

Do you think Anki is a must have for Medical school? What is on your agenda this summer? What specialties are you considering?

 

[Eccesignum]

Do you think Anki is a must have for Medical school? What is on your agenda this summer? What specialties are you considering?

A must-have? Nah. It's just a tool that works for some people and doesn't for others. It became a must-have for me because I'm the type that learns well by making my own flashcards rather than using others', and my routine of inputting cards from that day's lectures in and then reviewing old material every single day (I really like the spaced repetition, keeps me fresh on past stuff without feeling overwhelming) just works for me. It's not the only thing I use to study but my brain likes it. And it beats having thousands of paper flashcards But you have to do what works for you. If flashcards w/spaced repetition doesn't do it for your learning style then you're wasting your time.

This summer I'm doing some research on campus, doing an international medical thing later in the month, and starting to study for Step I. I know the last sounds like crazy talk, but we've already had a year of material and I want to review most if not all of it while I actually have time. In between all those, I've got games and sleep to catch up on

I'm nowhere near making a call on specialty. If I were forced to give an answer today it would be emergency (I was an emergency RN and I really do gel with the environment). My faculty adviser (an EM physician) gave me really good advice though -- to really pay attention to myself and make sure I wasn't just learning towards EM because that's my comfort zone. And she's very right. I love EM but I still have a lot of seeking out and exploring to do, especially as there are some other specialties that I do have an interest in (and they're all over the map). We'll see!

 

[njtrimed]

Do you have a family (spouse/SO and kid(s))? If so, how did they react to your change in workload going into medical school? I've been married for 5 years now this month, and we have a toddler. I spend a lot of time thinking about if I will get to spend much time with them once I get in to med school.

I just finished M1 as well, and I am married with a toddler, and another on the way. I honestly found that while the work load is extremely demanding and rivaled the year I spent working full-time while getting my Master's degree, it's so much more flexible! It took a while to adapt, and then to re-adapt when we started systems in the spring, but I found I actually could make more time for my family than I could while working, if I was creative with my schedule. My kiddo spent a lot of time hanging out next to me playing learning games on another computer or drawing while I studied. Anki (and firecracker when studying for NBME exams) allowed me to review material any time I had down time, at the playground or grocery shopping or while traveling with my family. Feel free to PM me with any questions! I don't want to hijack Ecce's thread

 

[ChopinLiszt]

I just finished M1 as well, and I am married with a toddler, and another on the way. I honestly found that while the work load is extremely demanding and rivaled the year I spent working full-time while getting my Master's degree, it's so much more flexible! It took a while to adapt, and then to re-adapt when we started systems in the spring,

Would you mind sharing some specifics of what you did to adapt and re-adapt?
(I'm sure Ecce doesn't mind you contributing here, too - she's cool. )

 

[Eccesignum]

Feel free to PM me with any questions! I don't want to hijack Ecce's thread

Would you mind sharing some specifics of what you did to adapt and re-adapt?
(I'm sure Ecce doesn't mind you contributing here, too - she's cool. )

I don't mind at all The question's something I'm sure a lot of folks would want to ask about, and I sure don't have an answer so by all means feel free to post here.

 

[njtrimed]

Would you mind sharing some specifics of what you did to adapt and re-adapt?
(I'm sure Ecce doesn't mind you contributing here, too - she's cool. )

I personally just needed time to figure out what study methods worked best for me, as well as where I studied best. At first I was concerned that Anki was inefficient for me compared to how it worked for me in grad school, since I end up making so many cards and it's time-consuming, but I realized after reverting to my study methods from my undergraduate days (pre-technology, more or less) that it was less efficient than Anki. I also wasn't sure if I was shooting myself in the foot trying to study at home with my daughter around, so I tried studying at school and at a local coffee shop and changed my study schedule a few times, before deciding that I was most productive studying at home. Finally, it took a while to decide whether I was better off podcasting lectures at 2x speed or actually going to lecture. Ultimately, I realized I wasted time pausing and rewinding when I podcasted, and I was more likely to make a full deck of Anki cards if I showed up to lecture and stayed 100% focused. So for the past 6 months or so, my schedule has looked like this: I get up early to work out and have breakfast with my family, go to lecture and try to make my Anki cards during lecture when possible, and then head home after any other mandatory classes or on-campus activities. At home, my daughter often sits next to me doing her own thing while I re-listen to any lecture material that wasn't clear (and fine-tune my Anki cards), watch Pathoma videos, or do Qbank questions. I go through Anki (and Firecracker) cards any time I have down time. That's what works for now! It may change when we have a newborn at home, so I'll just keep figuring it out as we go. My main concern is hammering down a good routine for studying before my dedicated Step 1 study period.

What works for you may be totally different, depending on what kind of learner you are and how much your kid(s) will allow you to study when you're home. You also need to know when you're mentally at your best. When I was 20, I was a night owl and was most productive overnight when everyone else was sleeping, but after years of working in the OR at the crack of dawn, I'm better off getting up at 4am if necessary in order to make sure I have time to run, and I avoid studying past 8pm. The first few months are a good time to figure that out; this is true with or without kids, but especially with a family! I think the main difference is that kids keep changing as they grow, and that may mean that *you* have to adapt around them. Does that make sense?

 

[Eccesignum]

I personally just needed time to figure out what study methods worked best for me, as well as where I studied best. At first I was concerned that Anki was inefficient for me compared to how it worked for me in grad school, since I end up making so many cards and it's time-consuming, but I realized after reverting to my study methods from my undergraduate days (pre-technology, more or less) that it was less efficient than Anki. I also wasn't sure if I was shooting myself in the foot trying to study at home with my daughter around, so I tried studying at school and at a local coffee shop and changed my study schedule a few times, before deciding that I was most productive studying at home. Finally, it took a while to decide whether I was better off podcasting lectures at 2x speed or actually going to lecture. Ultimately, I realized I wasted time pausing and rewinding when I podcasted, and I was more likely to make a full deck of Anki cards if I showed up to lecture and stayed 100% focused. So for the past 6 months or so, my schedule has looked like this: I get up early to work out and have breakfast with my family, go to lecture and try to make my Anki cards during lecture when possible, and then head home after any other mandatory classes or on-campus activities. At home, my daughter often sits next to me doing her own thing while I re-listen to any lecture material that wasn't clear (and fine-tune my Anki cards), watch Pathoma videos, or do Qbank questions. I go through Anki (and Firecracker) cards any time I have down time. That's what works for now! It may change when we have a newborn at home, so I'll just keep figuring it out as we go. My main concern is hammering down a good routine for studying before my dedicated Step 1 study period.

What works for you may be totally different, depending on what kind of learner you are and how much your kid(s) will allow you to study when you're home. You also need to know when you're mentally at your best. When I was 20, I was a night owl and was most productive overnight when everyone else was sleeping, but after years of working in the OR at the crack of dawn, I'm better off getting up at 4am if necessary in order to make sure I have time to run, and I avoid studying past 8pm. The first few months are a good time to figure that out; this is true with or without kids, but especially with a family! I think the main difference is that kids keep changing as they grow, and that may mean that *you* have to adapt around them. Does that make sense?

Heh, I was a bigtime night shifter as an RN and I was convinced I'd be one of those at home watching recorded lectures at 2am. But somehow I became one of those people that goes in to class at 9am and is in bed by 10:30. If you'd told younger me this would happen I'd have thought you were bonkers.

 

[GONNA%FINISH]

Hey everyone! I'm a non-trad in my late thirties, and just finished M1. Some of you posting and lurking here probably know me; I was on this board extensively while figuring out the application process, and if it weren't for SDN I probably wouldn't be here now. 2016 Non-Trad Applicants' Progress Thread 4 Lyfe.

Anyway, I did a mini-AMA over M1 winter break and wanted to offer to do it again, in case anyone has random questions. I'm not an adcom or an official authority on anything, just one person with one experience that I'm happy to share if it helps someone here. Ask away.

Hi
I am a non trad in my thirties looking to go back to med wchool. Currently works as a NP although I've always wanted to be an MD. Is the transition hard finance wise, currently have a house note and a car note including other bills, kids, etc. How can I pay for med school and continue to pay my billls? Is it possible to work at all in med school? Need to make sure that all of bills are still going to be paid while going to school. How did u study for the MCAT? Been a while since I've been out of shhol. Going to take o. Chem biochemistry and physics fall and spring semester.

 

[Eccesignum]

Hi
I am a non trad in my thirties looking to go back to med wchool. Currently works as a NP although I've always wanted to be an MD. Is the transition hard finance wise, currently have a house note and a car note including other bills, kids, etc. How can I pay for med school and continue to pay my billls? Is it possible to work at all in med school? Need to make sure that all of bills are still going to be paid while going to school. How did u study for the MCAT? Been a while since I've been out of shhol. Going to take o. Chem biochemistry and physics fall and spring semester.

I've heard of one person at my own school who worked 12h shifts every other Saturday during pre-clinical years...it's possible I guess, though I have no idea how they pulled that off. I know a few others who drive for Uber or do mystery shopping when they get a second, but you're not going to be making anything close to a full-time salary. You'll be living on loans and whatever savings you have (and spouse/SO income, if you have that).

By my school's financial aid, someone living on loans alone would be living on low 20's-K per year after tuition etc is taken out (other school packages vary, of course). You'll be able to take out whatever your school has determined is the maximum cost of attendance, which can vary. Cost of living where your school is is going to be a big factor; if you're in school in NYC you'll be looking at much higher rent, etc than you would in central Iowa. I'm in a major city and I have to take more care than before to keep spending down, but it's doable because I pushed a lot of my savings into paying off my car and taking care of other major debts before I started school, with just a credit card left to pay down right now. I'm not sure how I would've handled that if I had significant other bills. @njtrimed or others on here might be able to chime in on this, having a family and kids and all.

Studied for the MCAT mostly with Kaplan and ExamKrackers. I tested in late January 2015. Started studying in September 2014 while still both in school and working, then during the first three weeks of January (winter break from school) I temporarily cut my working hours to weekend only and studied like it was my full time job. I think the main thing with MCAT studying is making a schedule and being disciplined enough to follow it. Map out what you need to get down between now and test date, divide up the work however works best, and stick with it. If you need someone to do the discipline for you, take an online or in-person course.

I would say if you're just re-entering school to put your focus on that first. The transition back to school, especially when working, is the first hurdle.

 

[GONNA%FINISH]

I've heard of one person at my own school who worked 12h shifts every other Saturday during pre-clinical years...it's possible I guess, though I have no idea how they pulled that off. I know a few others who drive for Uber or do mystery shopping when they get a second, but you're not going to be making anything close to a full-time salary. You'll be living on loans and whatever savings you have (and spouse/SO income, if you have that).

By my school's financial aid, someone living on loans alone would be living on low 20's-K per year after tuition etc is taken out (other school packages vary, of course). You'll be able to take out whatever your school has determined is the maximum cost of attendance, which can vary. Cost of living where your school is is going to be a big factor; if you're in school in NYC you'll be looking at much higher rent, etc than you would in central Iowa. I'm in a major city and I have to take more care than before to keep spending down, but it's doable because I pushed a lot of my savings into paying off my car and taking care of other major debts before I started school, with just a credit card left to pay down right now. I'm not sure how I would've handled that if I had significant other bills. @njtrimed or others on here might be able to chime in on this, having a family and kids and all.

Studied for the MCAT mostly with Kaplan and ExamKrackers. I tested in late January 2015. Started studying in September 2014 while still both in school and working, then during the first three weeks of January (winter break from school) I temporarily cut my working hours to weekend only and studied like it was my full time job. I think the main thing with MCAT studying is making a schedule and being disciplined enough to follow it. Map out what you need to get down between now and test date, divide up the work however works best, and stick with it. If you need someone to do the discipline for you, take an online or in-person course.

I would say if you're just re-entering school to put your focus on that first. The transition back to school, especially when working, is the first hurdle.

Thanks

 

[GONNA%FINISH]

I personally just needed time to figure out what study methods worked best for me, as well as where I studied best. At first I was concerned that Anki was inefficient for me compared to how it worked for me in grad school, since I end up making so many cards and it's time-consuming, but I realized after reverting to my study methods from my undergraduate days (pre-technology, more or less) that it was less efficient than Anki. I also wasn't sure if I was shooting myself in the foot trying to study at home with my daughter around, so I tried studying at school and at a local coffee shop and changed my study schedule a few times, before deciding that I was most productive studying at home. Finally, it took a while to decide whether I was better off podcasting lectures at 2x speed or actually going to lecture. Ultimately, I realized I wasted time pausing and rewinding when I podcasted, and I was more likely to make a full deck of Anki cards if I showed up to lecture and stayed 100% focused. So for the past 6 months or so, my schedule has looked like this: I get up early to work out and have breakfast with my family, go to lecture and try to make my Anki cards during lecture when possible, and then head home after any other mandatory classes or on-campus activities. At home, my daughter often sits next to me doing her own thing while I re-listen to any lecture material that wasn't clear (and fine-tune my Anki cards), watch Pathoma videos, or do Qbank questions. I go through Anki (and Firecracker) cards any time I have down time. That's what works for now! It may change when we have a newborn at home, so I'll just keep figuring it out as we go. My main concern is hammering down a good routine for studying before my dedicated Step 1 study period.

What works for you may be totally different, depending on what kind of learner you are and how much your kid(s) will allow you to study when you're home. You also need to know when you're mentally at your best. When I was 20, I was a night owl and was most productive overnight when everyone else was sleeping, but after years of working in the OR at the crack of dawn, I'm better off getting up at 4am if necessary in order to make sure I have time to run, and I avoid studying past 8pm. The first few months are a good time to figure that out; this is true with or without kids, but especially with a family! I think the main difference is that kids keep changing as they grow, and that may mean that *you* have to adapt around them. Does that make sense?

Do u have any advice as far as financial aid and how to go from working full time to school full time. Currently an NP and I have. A family , mortgage, car note, etc. Are there any stipends or other sources of income available?

 

[njtrimed]

Do u have any advice as far as financial aid and how to go from working full time to school full time. Currently an NP and I have. A family , mortgage, car note, etc. Are there any stipends or other sources of income available?

Truthfully, it's not easy. I still work Saturdays, and I'm doing a paid research fellowship this summer while picking up per diem shifts any time I can. I took out the standard loan amount this year, but next year I will take out more since working will be nearly impossible with a new baby and board exams looming; you are allowed to increase the loan amount to cover the cost of your rent/mortgage and most other living expenses, though I know my financial aid office told me car loans cannot be added into the equation. Scholarships are also a possibility. Working weekends and the odd days off helps, so having a few good per diem gigs lined up is a good idea- but I get the sense that it becomes harder to take enough shifts to pay bills after the first year, especially once you start clerkships and need to focus on getting honors. We are in an expensive area and have cut or expenses to bare bones, which isn't too difficult since we don't have older kids who need a lot. It's doable if you can live with being broke for four years; it's worth it to us. But the reality is that you'll likely be just scraping by until residency, and even then your salary will be lower than what you're accustomed to.

 

[Eccesignum]

Do u have any advice as far as financial aid and how to go from working full time to school full time. Currently an NP and I have. A family , mortgage, car note, etc. Are there any stipends or other sources of income available?

...you are allowed to increase the loan amount to cover the cost of your rent/mortgage and most other living expenses, though I know my financial aid office told me car loans cannot be added into the equation. Scholarships are also a possibility.

You can increase loan amount but only to the point of maximum COA. If your school determines COA to be 65,000 per year and tuition is 40,000 then the max you have left to live on is 25,000. You won't be able to increase that unless you have a serious conversation with your FA office and they acknowledge that you need to borrow above COA.

It's definitely not easy, and the financial conversation is absolutely one that has to be dealt with before taking a step like this.

 

[njtrimed]

You can increase loan amount but only to the point of maximum COA. If your school determines COA to be 65,000 per year and tuition is 40,000 then the max you have left to live on is 25,000. You won't be able to increase that unless you have a serious conversation with your FA office and they acknowledge that you need to borrow above COA.

It's definitely not easy, and the financial conversation is absolutely one that has to be dealt with before taking a step like this.

I'm actually at the COA now, and they gave me a form to fill out to increase my loans. I would imagine every school has a different policy on this, but all I did was emailed the financial aid office explaining that my loans supported my family, and they emailed me back the form and told me to stop in any time with any questions I might have. I just didn't do it yet because I know the reality of what loans end up costing in the long run! But it's comforting to know that it's available if we need it.

 

[GONNA%FINISH]

Thanks a lot!!!

 

[rabbott1971]

You're late thirties....so I'll be starting at 47 and have a tiny bit of concern over physical stamina. I'm in decent shape, but could be better. Do you get pretty wiped out or was it pretty manageable?

 

[njtrimed]

You're late thirties....so I'll be starting at 47 and have a tiny bit of concern over physical stamina. I'm in decent shape, but could be better. Do you get pretty wiped out or was it pretty manageable?

I'd recommend getting in shape and eating well, not just for medical school, but because there's no reason you shouldn't feel great at 47! This career also requires a lot of stamina, whether you're studying for 12 hours or running around the hospital for 12+ hours, while mentally staying on top of your game. I work out pretty much every day, even during exams, and I keep the junk/processed food to a minimum. It keeps me happier and more productive. I'm more than a decade older than most of my classmates, and nearly two decades older than the youngest, and I don't thing I'm any less energetic.

 

[Mitzionoser]

Your willingness to come and help non-trads on SDN is admirable and thank you for doing that. It has definitely helped me with a lot of similar questions that I have. I am 39 now and looking to apply within the next 2-3 years. I am married with two kids (11 and 6). I am currently enrolled for Intro Chemistry class in order to get my feet wet before I dive in . I do have a few questions and I appreciate if you can answer them:

1. What kind of course work does your school use - system-based? Traditional? If it is different from your previous university system, can you share your thoughts?
   
   
2. How many semesters? How many classes per semester?
   
   
3. Are all of the classes equally difficult? Can you share your rank in the order of difficulty? I want to find out if all of the classes fit the typical analogy of “drinking from a fire hydrant,” or if there are some classes that are easier compared to others.
   
   
4. On a typical week how many hours did you spend studying outside of classroom? Are there some weeks where you have a little bit more flexibility with your time?
   

Thanks for your help.

 

[Eccesignum]

You're late thirties....so I'll be starting at 47 and have a tiny bit of concern over physical stamina. I'm in decent shape, but could be better. Do you get pretty wiped out or was it pretty manageable?

The real answer is one only you can give. My mother and her sister are both in their late 60s. My aunt still runs every morning, does yoga, and is in excellent shape. My mother does little physically and has significantly more health issues. I knew one ER physician where used to work who burned out in his 60s, and another one in his 70s who's still running circles around the place. It's something you really have to assess for yourself, knowing you better than anyone else.

Are things harder as you get older? Sure. When I was a teenager I ran five miles without blinking. Now I'm working on getting my stamina past one mile even, having had a long period where I paid very little attention to my physical shape (and smoked for years, then quit) and I recognize that...it's harder to get back to it the later it gets.

I haven't been through clinicals or residency yet, so I can only speak to the pre-clinical years. Echoing what @njtrimed is saying, definitely start working on getting back into shape now. M1 was spent mostly sitting in lecture, sitting in the library, sitting and studying, sitting sitting sitting. It was a struggle for me to start an exercise routine in the middle of all this. According to my Fitbit my resting heart rate went from 60s to the high 80s in the first six months of M1...that's when I decided I needed to stop the downhill train before it got serious on my body. I didn't physically feel bad, but I knew I would eventually if I didn't do something. And it's a struggle fighting against inertia. I expect it'll only get worse in M2 and M3. It's something I've committed to working on.

Mentally, I feel fine. It's tiring but nothing I can't handle (yet). Now if I could just run that 5K I'm shooting for

 

[rabbott1971]

Yeah I won't be running 5 miles, but I swim sometimes, it's easier on the joints. I've already ruled out specialties like surgery in particular that require a ton of physical endurance. Well good luck and thanks for the response.

 

[rabbott1971]

I'd recommend getting in shape and eating well, not just for medical school, but because there's no reason you shouldn't feel great at 47! This career also requires a lot of stamina, whether you're studying for 12 hours or running around the hospital for 12+ hours, while mentally staying on top of your game. I work out pretty much every day, even during exams, and I keep the junk/processed food to a minimum. It keeps me happier and more productive. I'm more than a decade older than most of my classmates, and nearly two decades older than the youngest, and I don't thing I'm any less energetic.

I'm trying to work in that direction, it's hard to take your face away from the exams, MCAT prep, etc., but I know that will just always be the case at every stage. Do you go in the mornings before you start all your stuff?

 

[Eccesignum]

Your willingness to come and help non-trads on SDN is admirable and thank you for doing that. It has definitely helped me with a lot of similar questions that I have. I am 39 now and looking to apply within the next 2-3 years. I am married with two kids (11 and 6). I am currently enrolled for Intro Chemistry class in order to get my feet wet before I dive in . I do have a few questions and I appreciate if you can answer them:

1. What kind of course work does your school use - system-based? Traditional? If it is different from your previous university system, can you share your thoughts?
   
   
2. How many semesters? How many classes per semester?
   
   
3. Are all of the classes equally difficult? Can you share your rank in the order of difficulty? I want to find out if all of the classes fit the typical analogy of “drinking from a fire hydrant,” or if there are some classes that are easier compared to others.
   
   
4. On a typical week how many hours did you spend studying outside of classroom? Are there some weeks where you have a little bit more flexibility with your time?

Thanks for your help.

My school is systems-based, with mostly traditional lecture (which is recorded). We have a few mandatory small group and clinical things, but for the most part M1 and M2 attendance in class itself is voluntary. It differs from undergrad if you're used to mandatory attendance. A lot of the pace of learning in medical school is up to you, as long as you're on point when exam time comes around. But nobody holds your hand. For some people used to more direction, this is hard.

Fall and spring semester, but each class block is its own entity with its own exams and a final for that block. Some are longer than others. Usually 4-8 weeks per block, depending. Fall semester had 3 blocks, spring had 4.

I wouldn't say they're equally difficult, no. Some have definitely been harder. I also find it tougher in blocks that go 4 weeks without an exam than blocks that go 2-3. A month of material to retain with 3-5 lectures a day is more than it sounds like. Step 1 sounds like so much fun

I typically go to class, so I'm in school from 9am to 12 or 1, then come home, give myself a midday break, start studying again til dinner, then 1-2 hours after. I always stop by 8/9pm, as I don't like to study and go straight to bed. I need unwind time. Then I study on weekends depending how much I need to do. So I'd say, outside of lecture time I probably spend 4-5 hours on weeknights. On weekends it really depends.

Some weeks are absolutely more flexible, for me. Since a lot of my studying is going back over old material, the first week after an exam or after the start of a new block is the week with the least amount to review each day. And some weeks are just lighter than others, as that's how the material falls. Last block I had one entire weekend that I just took off, because I was well caught up and could afford the time. That's not typical, but it happens. We'll see how M2 is

 

[Eccesignum]

I'm trying to work in that direction, it's hard to take your face away from the exams, MCAT prep, etc., but I know that will just always be the case at every stage. Do you go in the mornings before you start all your stuff?

I tend to go in the evenings, actually. I've heard getting active super early is better, and I know many people who get up at 5 to go to the gym, but I find my motivation to run is higher right after sundown for whatever weird reason. I do what my body is most willing to do.

And yeah I hear you about tearing away from MCAT, etc. Just remember that even 30 minutes every other day is beneficial. Sometimes it's easier to break it up into small chunks than to think 'I have to sacrifice an hour every single day', or whatever.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Big up to @Eccesignum for doing this. I followed their progress as a fellow applicant in 2016 and can say with confidence that as eloquent the responses here are, if you have questions on applying as a non-trad, you should not hesitate to ask. But as a fellow 30-something non-trad from a non-science/healthcare background, I wanted to add some supplemental thoughts.

I expected it to involve a great sacrifice of time and mental energy, but nothing really prepares you for just how much. I almost failed my very first exam, but I'm lucky in that I was flexible enough to realize that what I was doing wasn't working -- and I was okay with changing that. I found rather early what "works" for me in terms of learning methods, and I've performed much, much better ever since. I think flexibility is the real key. You'll come in, get smacked in the face with the sudden overload, and either barrel ahead with what you've always done...or continually reassess and readjust.

There's nothing I can really compare it to. M1 is, in essence, a full-time job in terms of your time. Then you've got things going on outside of the classroom that you need to keep up with. There's pressure to perform well, pressure to participate in outside leadership, pressure to do research, pressure from family in some cases...some people handle it well and some don't. Time management is absolutely critical, and I think it's much harder for people who haven't had to deal with that before.

I think one of the hardest things about it for me is the constant (and I mean constant) knowledge that there are things I need to do. There's no 'leaving work at work' and being able to have all my free time to myself. I have to always be aware of my workload and budget my free time carefully. That can be tough when you're used to seeing a day off in your calendar and knowing you can just relax and do whatever you want. Now, when the weekend or a holiday comes I have to be serious with myself about where I'm at and spent some of that time with school material. It takes time to get used to.

Still no regrets though...not a single one

I agree with the primary theme here. Be prepared to work hard. It's medical school. If it's been a few years since you were in school, brush up on the finer points you may have lost. Learning how to study in med school is a trial by fire. I was referred to "Successtypes in Medical Education" It's free online to d/l. While this did help, the main driver is how your school's curriculum is set up. Not sure about Ecce, but all my classes are pass/fail, most are not mandatory and all lectures are recorded. I have classmates who I never see except for small groups. They watch lectures and study at home.

I did not experience the pressure Ecce talked about. The pressure to perform well is internal (myself not inside our class). There is no pressure for leadership or research, but there are options abound that are thrown at us to get involved. I'm currently doing research as well as working with a separate physician on drafting case-reports.

Third, I haven't experienced the 'leaving work at work' issue Ecce spoke about. There are weekends that I don't study at all. Over the holidays, except for organizing, condensing and filing my notes from the last block, I did not touch any school material - the same goes with many of my close classmates.

Finally, I will emphasize that time-management it critical. I worship at the alter of Anki for the bulk of my studying. Since I have a 40 minute train commute every morning, I found an effective way to kill two birds and build in over an hour of study time by doing decks to and from school.

Do you have a family (spouse/SO and kid(s))? If so, how did they react to your change in workload going into medical school? I've been married for 5 years now this month, and we have a toddler. I spend a lot of time thinking about if I will get to spend much time with them once I get in to med school.

I'm married and haven't found that much of a change. This is in part to the fact that I was just as busy, if not more, as a post-bacc. My key is that I separate school and life. When I'm home, I'm a husband. I only do about 5-10% of my studying at home and most of that is last minute prep before an exam. I have my exam schedule in a Google Cal that I share with my wife. She knows that weekends after exams are weekends my study schedule will be the lightest and most conducive to travel, date nights, etc. We're planning on starting a family shortly and I've pressed the 4 other classmates with kids about this balance and they've echoed similar messages about creating that delineation in their lives as well as finding good day-care and babysitters.

 

[Eccesignum]

I did not experience the pressure Ecce talked about. The pressure to perform well is internal (myself not inside our class). There is no pressure for leadership or research, but there are options abound that are thrown at us to get involved. I'm currently doing research as well as working with a separate physician on drafting case-reports.

Yeah, I call it pressure because it's been impressed on us from the get-go that one needs to be competitive for residency applications. Many people don't obsess over this, but some are already thinking about a competitive specialty and are pretty gung-ho. I tend to hover in the middle somewhere. Different school environments will of course be different in what they emphasize and when.

Third, I haven't experienced the 'leaving work at work' issue Ecce spoke about. There are weekends that I don't study at all. Over the holidays, except for organizing, condensing and filing my notes from the last block, I did not touch any school material - the same goes with many of my close classmates.

Definitely. As I said, I'm only one person, and I find reviewing my Anki at least once per day helps, so on weekends at very least I do my cards slated for the day (and while I study Anki I'm usually consulting my lectures to make sure I understand answers I get wrong). If I'm feeling like I need more, I'll do more dedicated studying. Unlike a lot of people I don't have family close to me, and as such I don't have as much outside-of-studying time needs as others do, which probably contributes. This is why I encourage people with other circumstances to post their viewpoints

I'm married and haven't found that much of a change. This is in part to the fact that I was just as busy, if not more, as a post-bacc. My key is that I separate school and life. When I'm home, I'm a husband. I only do about 5-10% of my studying at home and most of that is last minute prep before an exam. I have my exam schedule in a Google Cal that I share with my wife. She knows that weekends after exams are weekends my study schedule will be the lightest and most conducive to travel, date nights, etc. We're planning on starting a family shortly and I've pressed the 4 other classmates with kids about this balance and they've echoed similar messages about creating that delineation in their lives as well as finding good day-care and babysitters.

Good luck to you and the fam! Glad to see you're doing well. I was just catching up on a binge-watch of Archer, so I'll wave the to other Cyril Figgis for ya

 

[getfat]

Hey @Eccesignum ! Appreciate all the help, especially with personal statements. You were definitely one of the reason I got into to medical school a couple months ago.

As a fellow non-trad what was your housing situation for first year? How far? Did you live by yourself? If you could've changed anything regarding your housing situation what would it be?

Thanks again,

 

[Eccesignum]

Hey @Eccesignum ! Appreciate all the help, especially with personal statements. You were definitely one of the reason I got into to medical school a couple months ago.

As a fellow non-trad what was your housing situation for first year? How far? Did you live by yourself? If you could've changed anything regarding your housing situation what would it be?

Thanks again,

Gratz! Enjoy the ride

I actually live with another non-trad SDNer, hah. We met on the 2016 Applicants' thread, and when we found out we we were both going to be attending the same school and were almost the same age...well, done deal. We both flew here in May before school and apartment-shopped, found one about 15 minutes from campus. A realtor was a huge help.

Her husband still has to live in their home state due to job issues. When he can finally move here (possibly next summer), I'll likely find a place by myself. There's an apartment block a short walk from school where many students live because it's fairly cheap (not as nice as our place now, but it's an expensive city so super nice and cheap don't tend to co-exist), so that's probably what I'll do.

No regrets, wouldn't change it. We get along very well and living with a roommate keeps costs down. Living with another medical student can be nice as you have the same woes and you understand what the other is going through. We also review together before tests and are both gaming nerds

Had I not met her I probably would've made every effort to live alone. Roommate stress is one thing I haven't had to deal with in many years, and I wasn't keen on starting again now.

 

[Mitzionoser]

My school is systems-based, with mostly traditional lecture (which is recorded). We have a few mandatory small group and clinical things, but for the most part M1 and M2 attendance in class itself is voluntary. It differs from undergrad if you're used to mandatory attendance. A lot of the pace of learning in medical school is up to you, as long as you're on point when exam time comes around. But nobody holds your hand. For some people used to more direction, this is hard.

Fall and spring semester, but each class block is its own entity with its own exams and a final for that block. Some are longer than others. Usually 4-8 weeks per block, depending. Fall semester had 3 blocks, spring had 4.

I wouldn't say they're equally difficult, no. Some have definitely been harder. I also find it tougher in blocks that go 4 weeks without an exam than blocks that go 2-3. A month of material to retain with 3-5 lectures a day is more than it sounds like. Step 1 sounds like so much fun

I typically go to class, so I'm in school from 9am to 12 or 1, then come home, give myself a midday break, start studying again til dinner, then 1-2 hours after. I always stop by 8/9pm, as I don't like to study and go straight to bed. I need unwind time. Then I study on weekends depending how much I need to do. So I'd say, outside of lecture time I probably spend 4-5 hours on weeknights. On weekends it really depends.

Some weeks are absolutely more flexible, for me. Since a lot of my studying is going back over old material, the first week after an exam or after the start of a new block is the week with the least amount to review each day. And some weeks are just lighter than others, as that's how the material falls. Last block I had one entire weekend that I just took off, because I was well caught up and could afford the time. That's not typical, but it happens. We'll see how M2 is

Thanks for the response.

Do some of the blocks overlap with each other?

Four to five lectures a day - are they different subjects or the same subjects?

Thanks