M4 subinternship: wise, or crazy?

[BoxingTheStars]

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On one hand I've heard doing a subinternship is great prep for your intern year/residency. On the other hand I've also heard many people feel like fourth year should be a little more relaxing so you can regroup before residency begins, and that a subinternship is the last thing you'd want to do as an M4.

Anyone done one (or not) and have input? Are these required at your school? If not, would you still want to do one?

 

[lord_jeebus]

I didn't know there were schools that didn't require a sub-I in something...

 

[diosa428]

On one hand I've heard doing a subinternship is great prep for your intern year/residency. On the other hand I've also heard many people feel like fourth year should be a little more relaxing so you can regroup before residency begins, and that a subinternship is the last thing you'd want to do as an M4.

Anyone done one (or not) and have input? Are these required at your school? If not, would you still want to do one?

I am pretty sure EVERY school requires that you do a sub-I. Some schools require that you do one in medicine or surgery, others allow you to do one in whatever field you're going into (psych, peds, etc). You usually use the LOR you get from your sub-I as part of your residency app. What you get on your sub-I is also probably the most important grade you will have on your transcript.

I also think you should probably focus on getting through the first 3 years of med school before start worrying about your fourth year schedule.

 

[soeagerun2or]

On one hand I've heard doing a subinternship is great prep for your intern year/residency. On the other hand I've also heard many people feel like fourth year should be a little more relaxing so you can regroup before residency begins, and that a subinternship is the last thing you'd want to do as an M4.

Anyone done one (or not) and have input? Are these required at your school? If not, would you still want to do one?

If you don't even know where you are going to medical school why are you asking about 4th year?

As previously stated, I don't know of a school that does not require a subinternship. Perhaps you meant an AWAY subinternship, which is a personal preference. Most people treat away rotations as a 2- to 4-week interview to see if it is somewhere they truly are interested in going and to give the program a better feel for who they are.

 

[Pontifex Maximus]

A sub-I is only a month anyway. How would that kill the whole year?

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

A sub-I is only a month anyway. How would that kill the whole year?

That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Ashers]

We're required to do 1 medicine and 1 surgery. It is teh suck. I've got my medicine one in February -- at least it's only 28 days next year.

I've had so many surgery residents tell me that their schools only required them to do 1 in whatever field they wanted.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

On one hand I've heard doing a subinternship is great prep for your intern year/residency. On the other hand I've also heard many people feel like fourth year should be a little more relaxing so you can regroup before residency begins, and that a subinternship is the last thing you'd want to do as an M4.

Anyone done one (or not) and have input? Are these required at your school? If not, would you still want to do one?

Most people design their 4th year to be as cush as possible, but every school I know of has a core few months that everyone does, including at least 1 sub-I (or acting internship). My school for example requires something ambulatory, something in surgery, something relating to peds, and a medicine sub-I. You are of course welcome to schedule additional sub-Is at either your home school or as away rotations, and indeed for some of the more competitive specialties like ortho this is a de facto requirement. Even so, that leaves lots of time for the 'Basics of Anatomy' and 'History of Medical Ethics' that are basically additional months off.

 

[BoxingTheStars]

If you don't even know where you are going to medical school why are you asking about 4th year?

Because I'm comparing the clinical curricula to help me decide 🙂 One school requires a sub-I, the other (at least I thought) does not. The reason I'm asking is because I thought I remembered reading some "advice for medical students" thing somewhere, maybe even here on sdn, and the student was quite adamant about avoiding the sub-I if possible. I can't remember the specifics of why, so I was looking for some more input from you guys.

Trust me I am NOT trying to plan a fourth year schedule here! One step at a time. Guess I will contact the other school and find out if they have a sub-I requirement that I had just not heard of, since y'all think it's pretty common.

 

[Ashers]

Because I'm comparing the clinical curricula to help me decide 🙂 One school requires a sub-I, the other (at least I thought) does not. The reason I'm asking is because I thought I remembered reading some "advice for medical students" thing somewhere, maybe even here on sdn, and the student was quite adamant about avoiding the sub-I if possible. I can't remember the specifics of why, so I was looking for some more input from you guys.

Trust me I am NOT trying to plan a fourth year schedule here! One step at a time. Guess I will contact the other school and find out if they have a sub-I requirement that I had just not heard of, since y'all think it's pretty common.

All the stuff I thought sounded cool while looking at schools' curricula while applying I now think is completely annoying.

2 required sub-Is (1 surgical/1 medical) :
THEN: Good, they make sure we know what we're doing
NOW: Geez, this just takes away from a month of something else I'd rather be doing, and I already know I'm going into ortho; why do I have to do their scut as a medicine sub-I.

Integrated selective:
THEN: Cool, integrating different fields of medicine; that encourages people working together.
NOW: I'm just glad I got the one I want that'll be semi-useful in the future.

Ambulatory or Inpatient medicine, whichever we didn't have during our 2 months of M3 medicine:
THEN: Sweet. That sounds good.
NOW: There goes yet another elective. Hyperbaric medicine would've been so much cooler. May as well do outpatient medicine as an M4, so I don't have to be expected to know cards/neph/MICU stuff then, and I want an easier year. Seriously, isn't 4 months of straight-up medicine enough? I could totally get by with 1 inpatient, 1 outpatient M3 year, and 1 sub-I M4 year.

5 electives total:
THEN: Wow, that's a lot of choices.
NOW: Ok, took 1 as an M3, have to use 1 as a sub-I for an away (+ restrictions on the number of aways/electives I can do in 1 specialty), that leaves 2 classes for fun stuff, plus the May class reunion class that everyone takes.

Oh yeah, OSCEs:
THEN: Good, that'll help me prepare for Step2 CS.
NOW: OSCEs suck. They just bring my grades down because they're nothing like regular patients, and I forget to ask stuff I ask regular people on a routine basis.

 

[smq123]

Oh yeah, OSCEs:
THEN: Good, that'll help me prepare for Step2 CS.
NOW: OSCEs suck. They just bring my grades down because they're nothing like regular patients, and I forget to ask stuff I ask regular people on a routine basis.

EXACTLY! 👍

 

[Ashers]

EXACTLY! 👍

hehe. I forgot to ask about past surgical history and past medical history on my surgery OSCE. Good times. Normally, that's not something I forget.

The OSCEs are making me think I'm going to fail CS.

 

[njbmd]

Fourth year issue and now moved to that forum.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I didn't know there were schools that didn't require a sub-I in something...

Absolutely there are schools that don't. Mine doesn't. Our only 4th year requirement is to do a month long "senior selective". They just changed the name from "basic science selective" because (as per usual at my school), they began allowing so many other things to count towards the requirement that most people don't do anything related to a basic science anymore.

The other 9 months of 4th year are entirely electives. One month of the nine can be used for vacation.

Despite the lack of required sub-i's (and I'd be pretty pissed if I was required to do a surgical sub-i when I'm going the medicine route), most people do at least one. Our advising system seems to be pretty consistent across the board that you should do one within the first three months of the year.

But as others have said...it's one month out of the year. If that's going to ruin your year, you probably shouldn't be a resident.

 

[QofQuimica]

I didn't know there were schools that didn't require a sub-I in something...

That's what I was going to say!

So what do people with no sub-Is do during fourth year, just take a bunch of easy electives? (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) And how do you get LORs if you're going into a field that's not one of the standard rotations? Do you just take a regular elective in path or rads or ortho or whatever at the beginning of fourth year and/or do an away?

OP, they are required at my school, and yes, I would want to do one so that I can get LORs. I'm going to have plenty of easy months fourth year, so I'm not too worried about not being rested up enough. Actually, fourth year may well shape up to be the easiest year of my entire adult life, even with a sub-I or two shoved in there. 😉

 

[MadameLULU]

That's what I was going to say!

So what do people with no sub-Is do during fourth year, just take a bunch of easy electives? (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) And how do you get LORs if you're going into a field that's not one of the standard rotations? Do you just take a regular elective in path or rads or ortho or whatever at the beginning of fourth year and/or do an away?

Yes, just take electives in the field in which you're interested and ask for letters then.

To the OP: if you're school allows it, you can take the sub-I during your third year. I've already finished my sub-I and am currently taking electives.

 

[chadderdo21]

Require a Sub-I? At my school it is optional if you choose. I am looking at medicine and I sure as hell am not doing a sub-I after the pain that this year has been. 2 months of medicine was enough for me for right now. What ever floats your boat I guess. 🙂

 

[UCLAstudent]

Wow, I thought all schools required at least one sub-i. My school requires 3 of 'em.

 

[Ypo.]

Sub-i's are not required at my school but I'll be doing two. Most everyone I know is doing one.

 

[SoCuteMD]

On one hand I've heard doing a subinternship is great prep for your intern year/residency. On the other hand I've also heard many people feel like fourth year should be a little more relaxing so you can regroup before residency begins, and that a subinternship is the last thing you'd want to do as an M4.

Anyone done one (or not) and have input? Are these required at your school? If not, would you still want to do one?

I don't think this is a good criteria on which to base a choice of medical school.

 

[beastmaster]

are away/audition rotations excluded from the sub-i definition? technically it's not a sub-i, but in many cases it's still a month-long experience with long hours and hard work.

 

[Ashers]

are away/audition rotations excluded from the sub-i definition? technically it's not a sub-i, but in many cases it's still a month-long experience with long hours and hard work.

My school won't let us count sub-Is done at another school toward our own requirements. We have to do ours on campus to count. So, I guess technically, I'm planning on doing 2 ortho sub-Is and 1 medicine.

 

[diosa428]

Require a Sub-I? At my school it is optional if you choose. I am looking at medicine and I sure as hell am not doing a sub-I after the pain that this year has been. 2 months of medicine was enough for me for right now. What ever floats your boat I guess. 🙂

You want to do it for the rest of your life, but can't handle another month of it?

 

[velo]

I didn't know there were schools that didn't require a sub-I in something...

Our 4th year is 100% elective so we're not 'required' to do a sub-I in anything, but all of us do. A sub-I or two is a good way to see how far you've come during your 3rd year, get good LORs, and (if you're like I was) make up your mind about what specialty you're going to do!

With regards to the question about "preparing yourself for intern year." I have to refer you to a comment a fellow made to me about taking a sub-I later in the year...

"Using a sub-I to prepare yourself for intern year is like preparing for a car crash by banging your head against the wall."

 

[beastmaster]

"Using a sub-I to prepare yourself for intern year is like preparing for a car crash by banging your head against the wall."

It's great that you created a quotation to emphasize how one can't possibly prepare you for the other.

But I've seen interns who "vacationed" 4th year. And others who took it seriously, with lots of sub-i's. Let's just say there's a noticeable difference.

 

[velo]

It's great that you created a quotation to emphasize how one can't possibly prepare you for the other.

But I've seen interns who "vacationed" 4th year. And others who took it seriously, with lots of sub-i's. Let's just say there's a noticeable difference.

It isn't my quote.

I think clearly the answer is finding a balance between vacationing and 'hard' rotations. I didn't want to start intern year totally rusty, but I'm glad I'm going into it nice and rested too, not going to get a bunch this coming year!

 

[Ypo.]

are away/audition rotations excluded from the sub-i definition? technically it's not a sub-i, but in many cases it's still a month-long experience with long hours and hard work.

Both of my sub-i's will be at away sites.

 

[Biscuit799]

My school doesn't require sub-i's per se, but we have required rotations entitled "Advanced IM" and "Advanced Family Medicine" which are effectively sub-i's. So counting those two courses, plus my two away's, I'll be doing 4 sub-i's.

I agree it's about finding a balance. I've stacked the first half of my year with sub-i's and other tough courses, and the second half with easier courses in an effort to rest up before internship.

 

[QofQuimica]

I agree it's about finding a balance. I've stacked the first half of my year with sub-i's and other tough courses, and the second half with easier courses in an effort to rest up before internship.

That's my plan too--get the hard stuff out of the way early, then basically go on a boondoggle for the last few months. 🙂