Madigan/OTSG mess

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Homunculus

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so that didn't take long. surgeon (nurse) general is now investigating the program she headed while she was commander at the same hospital while the current commander is on admin leave? so many levels of shadiness to this one i don't know where to start. i don't see this ending well for her, mainly because of the end around someone made to the politicians.

this was her baby, and if it congress doesn't like it, this will be like WRAMC circa 2004/2005 all over again, only with PTSD instead of mold.

if you haven't heard, just google around a bit. 😎

-- your friendly neighborhood staying away from madigan a bit caveman
 
so that didn't take long. surgeon (nurse) general is now investigating the program she headed while she was commander at the same hospital while the current commander is on admin leave? so many levels of shadiness to this one i don't know where to start. i don't see this ending well for her, mainly because of the end around someone made to the politicians.

this was her baby, and if it congress doesn't like it, this will be like WRAMC circa 2004/2005 all over again, only with PTSD instead of mold.

if you haven't heard, just google around a bit. 😎

-- your friendly neighborhood staying away from madigan a bit caveman

I don't quite understand the program. Maybe you can help me understand it. How did the forensic evaluation work? Did everyone getting a med board for mental health receive an additional forensic evaluation or is it just for specific cases when there was uncertainty about the diagnosis? If you can tell me more I will post my thoughts.
 
Why is Madigan the "unique" MTF which uses these forensic psychologists? Why don't the other MTFs use them as well?
 
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Garbage. In my experience, 9/10 soldiers seeking "PTSD" diagnoses are malingering. Sounds like Madigan BH did the RIGHT THING, for once, and called a spade a spade. Now they'll be drug over the coals for it, and sold down the river.

This is why I can't wait to get out of the military. The guys that truly have PTSD are usually too proud to claim it, or seek treatment because of the stigma created by the innumerable degenerates in support echelons who know that being diagnosed guarantees near 100% disability for life.

Before I served on the operational side for a while,I had illusions about the honor, dignity and self respect inherent in military service. Seeing cooks, clerks, and mechanics who never leave the FOB claim PTSD is the norm rather than the exception. Unfortunately, nobody has the balls to call these ****bags on their lies, deception and self serving testimonies. Madigan did, and now they will be punished.

Unbelievable.

-61N
 
Garbage. In my experience, 9/10 soldiers seeking "PTSD" diagnoses are malingering. Sounds like Madigan BH did the RIGHT THING, for once, and called a spade a spade. Now they'll be drug over the coals for it, and sold down the river.

This is why I can't wait to get out of the military. The guys that truly have PTSD are usually too proud to claim it, or seek treatment because of the stigma created by the innumerable degenerates in support echelons who know that being diagnosed guarantees near 100% disability for life.

Before I served on the operational side for a while,I had illusions about the honor, dignity and self respect inherent in military service. Seeing cooks, clerks, and mechanics who never leave the FOB claim PTSD is the norm rather than the exception. Unfortunately, nobody has the balls to call these ****bags on their lies, deception and self serving testimonies. Madigan did, and now they will be punished.

Unbelievable.

-61N
never a truer post -

Between sleep apnea and PTSD - we are going to go broke. Amazing how we reward individuals who did nothing more than eat 3000 calories/day and blob out. There is a ton of real PTSD but in my estimation an equal amount of fabricated PTSD. These guys know the drill - they google the criteria - it is a bit funny when the spit out terms from DSM IV in their history that they don't even understand. One of my favorites was "I have witnessed apnea". Brilliant America! Brilliant!
 
The guys that truly have PTSD are usually too proud to claim it, or seek treatment
I agree with some of your post, but this sort of macho bull$hit here is exactly what mental health folks have been banging their heads against to fight for years to get people to seek out the help they need. Luckily, enough soldiers disagree with you that changes have been made. People like Gen Schwartzkopf and the like have come forward and publicly talked about their issues with combat stress and fighting the stigma.

You get malingering $hitbags hitting the combat stress teams and getting referred to psych all the time. You also get folks with legitimate stress disorders doing the same. And unfortunately the legitimate folks have to overcome the John Wayne "tough it out" bull**** that only the wimps, cowards, and malingers seek treatment. In my head I usually imagine that this comes from salty and uninformed NCOs; do I really have to add GMOs to the list as well? I realize most GMOs come in with zero psych experience other than the month as 3rd year med students that most of us blew off, but hasn't everyone gone through enough army mental health training that they get that the stereotype is nonsense? Don't make 'em throw another PowerPoint at you, because they'll do it...

Folks in mental health would LOVE to have a blood test or decent diagnostic to figure out who is malingering and who is not. We don't have that yet, but one is pending. In the meantime, we have to eek out whose malingering and who is not by experience, not by the stereotypes that it only happens to white men 11B and the "real" cases only get found when they have a complete mental breakdown.

Sorry, blowing off steam on a forum is all good and healthy, but as a GMO or doc of any stripe please don't let the ideas that the folks with real PTSD don't seek treatment come out in interaction with your soldiers. As depressing as it is dealing with what you think might be malingering PTSD cases, it's a lot more depressing going into a waiting room full of Vietnam era PTSD cases still requiring treatment since their culture at the time was that real men with real problems didn't get help for it.
 
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Amazing how we reward individuals who did nothing more than eat 3000 calories/day and blob out.
My personal favorite is psychosis. First break typically comes around the time folks are doing their first hitch and would have come on even if they were working at McDonald's. But since it occurs while in uniform, they are service-connected the rest of their life. And the cost of supporting someone with OSA over a lifetime pales in comparison to what a schizophrenic will run you.
There is a ton of real PTSD but in my estimation an equal amount of fabricated PTSD. These guys know the drill - they google the criteria - it is a bit funny when the spit out terms from DSM IV in their history that they don't even understand.
Tough to estimate the amount of fabricated PTSD, but I would guess 50% might be close. The problem I have with some of the posts here is that you can't toss out the baby with the bathwater. Most chest pain is non-cardiac, but just discharging everyone with GERD meds is bad juju.

Forensic psychiatry can be helpful on eeking out what's real and what's not, but the real silver bullet will come once you have a good validating test. The SIRS test for psychosis has done wonders. PTSD is do-able as well, though it would be trickier.

The problem with Madigan from my read is that you have an after-the-fact team of psychiatrists coming in at the final hour and reversing the decisions of previous care providers to deny benefits. If you had a private insurance company pulling the same thing, there would be war.
 
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Garbage. In my experience, 9/10 soldiers seeking "PTSD" diagnoses are malingering. Sounds like Madigan BH did the RIGHT THING, for once, and called a spade a spade. Now they'll be drug over the coals for it, and sold down the river.

This is why I can't wait to get out of the military. The guys that truly have PTSD are usually too proud to claim it, or seek treatment because of the stigma created by the innumerable degenerates in support echelons who know that being diagnosed guarantees near 100% disability for life.

Before I served on the operational side for a while,I had illusions about the honor, dignity and self respect inherent in military service. Seeing cooks, clerks, and mechanics who never leave the FOB claim PTSD is the norm rather than the exception. Unfortunately, nobody has the balls to call these ****bags on their lies, deception and self serving testimonies. Madigan did, and now they will be punished.

Unbelievable.

-61N

Currently experiencing the disability system on the Navy side, and you will be glad to know that most PTSD don't get 100% and often after a year or two end up with 10%.

Agree that there are a large number of people claiming the condition where it is unwarranted.
 
I agree with some of your post, but this sort of macho bull$hit here is exactly what mental health folks have been banging their heads against to fight for years to get people to seek out the help they need. Luckily, enough soldiers disagree with you that changes have been made. People like Gen Schwartzkopf and the like have come forward and publicly talked about their issues with combat stress and fighting the stigma.

You get malingering $hitbags hitting the combat stress teams and getting referred to psych all the time. You also get folks with legitimate stress disorders doing the same. And unfortunately the legitimate folks have to overcome the John Wayne "tough it out" bull**** that only the wimps, cowards, and malingers seek treatment. In my head I usually imagine that this comes from salty and uninformed NCOs; do I really have to add GMOs to the list as well? I realize most GMOs come in with zero psych experience other than the month as 3rd year med students that most of us blew off, but hasn't everyone gone through enough army mental health training that they get that the stereotype is nonsense? Don't make 'em throw another PowerPoint at you, because they'll do it...

Folks in mental health would LOVE to have a blood test or decent diagnostic to figure out who is malingering and who is not. We don't have that yet, but one is pending. In the meantime, we have to eek out whose malingering and who is not by experience, not by the stereotypes that it only happens to white men 11B and the "real" cases only get found when they have a complete mental breakdown.

Sorry, blowing off steam on a forum is all good and healthy, but as a GMO or doc of any stripe please don't let the ideas that the folks with real PTSD don't seek treatment come out in interaction with your soldiers. As depressing as it is dealing with what you think might be malingering PTSD cases, it's a lot more depressing going into a waiting room full of Vietnam era PTSD cases still requiring treatment since their culture at the time was that real men with real problems didn't get help for it.
I know what PTSD is. I don't need a lecture from you on it. Did you read my post? Many Soldiers who experience authentic life-altering trauma in Afghanistan are reluctant to seek mental health treatment. Not because I am judging them or calling them weak but because so many of the degenerates in the support echelons claim it falsely. They are rewarded for their duplicity by contract psychiatrists, civilians and social workers who have never heard a shot fired in anger yet take every word that the supply clerk or cook or mechanic spews to them as gospel. THAT is what creates the stigma.

It is the same reason many of my men with legitimate injuries are reluctant to go to WTU to rehab- those places have become a dumping ground for the Military's flotsam and jetsam. Real Soldiers don't want to associate with those types at any cost. Only after much prodding and convincing have I been able to get some of my guys the help they needed.

I know what real PTSD looks like, and what it can do to someone. I've seen it first hand in good friends and comrades I served with- men who came home broken wrecks. Some of them made it through, and some will be broken for life. I never ignored their complaints nor would it ever occur to me to do so. I lived through the same experiences with them.

You're National Guard, aren't you? Have you ever served a day on active duty? By the tone of your post I assume you're a psych resident. If you ever deploy, or serve on active duty, make sure to look at some of these veterans with a discerning eye. Legitimizing the false PTSD claims of malingerers and cowards dishonors those who actually put themselves on the line, and are still suffering.

-61N
 
Legitimizing the false PTSD claims of malingerers and cowards dishonors those who actually put themselves on the line, and are still suffering.
Oh, I absolutely agree. I don't think anyone is disputing your belief that there is way too much PTSD malingering. I just disagree with your comment that...
The guys that truly have PTSD are usually too proud to claim it, or seek treatment
It's just the bull$hit that furthers the stereotype that the folks with real PTSD don't see help and harms those who are still suffering. Even if 50% of PTSD cases are malingerers, if you really believe your comment, you're throwing the other 50% out with the bathwater by association. Which is bad juju and bad medicine.

Rubber stamping every PTSD case as authentic is bad policy. But furthering the falsehood that the "real cases" are the ones that don't seek help is just as bad. Aside from just not being true, it disincents folks with the disease from getting the help they need.

Whether that's how you actually feel or not, that's how your words read, so I wanted to clarify. No big whoop. Now back to your regular programming...
 
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Absolutely agree. I don't think anyone is disputing your belief that there is way too much PTSD malingering. I just disagree with your comment that...

... is the bull$hit that furthers the stereotype that the folks with real PTSD don't see help and harms those who are still suffering. Even if 50% are malingerers, you're throwing the other 50% out with the bathwater by association. Which is bad juju and bad medicine.

Rubber stamping every PTSD case as authentic is bad policy. But furthering the falsehood that the "real cases" are the ones that don't seek help is just as bad. Aside from just not being true, it disincents folks with the disease from getting the help they need.

Whether that's how you actually feel or not, that's how your words read, so I wanted to clarify. Back to your regular programming...

He is articulating an attitude as he sees it, not passing a judgement. No where in the post does he claim people with real PTSD SHOULDN'T get treatment, just that in his experience they DON'T! There is a difference in pointing out a pervasive attitude and claiming that that attitude is correct. I, and I think 61N, wish more of the people with real PTSD would come forward for help, but getting upset with someone for pointing out that in practice they don't is less than productive.

It seems you are shooting the messenger in this case because you dislike the message. I think we can all agree the message sucks, but that doesn't make it any less true...
 
No where in the post does he claim people with real PTSD SHOULDN'T get treatment, just that in his experience they DON'T!
Yep. Which I disagree with. People with real PTSD do get treatment. All of them? No. Why not? For many, it's because they don't want to be thought of as malingering wasters. When you assume that all folks who do come forward for PTSD treatment are de facto malingering wasters, you're contributing to the problem that makes it hard for vets to come forward. Make sense?

If you believe people with real PTSD don't get treatment, by definition you believe everyone being treated for PTSD is malingering, which again, isn't just insulting to veterans, it's bad medicine.

To each their own. We all have different experiences and we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
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Yep. Which I disagree with. People with real PTSD do get treatment. All of them? No. Why not? For many, it's because they don't want to be thought of as malingering wasters. When you assume that all folks who do come forward for PTSD treatment are de facto malingering wasters, you're contributing to the problem that makes it hard for vets to come forward. Make sense?

If you believe people with real PTSD don't get treatment, by definition you believe everyone being treated for PTSD is malingering, which again, isn't just insulting to veterans, it's bad medicine.

To each their own. We all have different experiences and we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm done debating this with you. I should have said in my original post that it is "unfortunate" that many with legitimate PTSD do not come forward and seek treatment. I certainly do not revel in this, nor do I assume that everyone claiming PTSD is faking it. I am simply stating the bald facts as I have seen them on the operational side for more than 3 years.

Since you are a weekend warrior wannabe with zero combat or deployment experience I guess it is natural for you to take the politically correct stance. I hope, for the sake of the Nation and the Army, that if you ever come on active duty you will evaluate the complaints of mental health patients rationally and objectively. The sad truth is that the "all volunteer" military is really the product of an economic and circumstantial draft. Putting a moral and physical degenerate in camouflage for 8 hours a day doesn't make them a "Soldier." Yet this is exactly what recruiters have been doing for the last 6 years (thank God it has finally ebbed) leaving everyone on the operational side to deal with the unfortunate consequences of what has become an out of control and unfunded welfare system.

- 61N
 
There's more trouble in Tacoma than the stuff at Madigan. The local news is really playing up other things that have gone one the past few years.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/flatpages/local/jblmtimeline.html

I think the whole command is going to be facing some serious inquiries. I feel for them, I think that a climate like this could make things pretty miserable around there.
 
There's more trouble in Tacoma than the stuff at Madigan. The local news is really playing up other things that have gone one the past few years.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/flatpages/local/jblmtimeline.html

I think the whole command is going to be facing some serious inquiries. I feel for them, I think that a climate like this could make things pretty miserable around there.

A very relevant and insightful piece from Washington Post
March 14, 2012
Pg. 15

Consumed By Wars Without End

By Robert H. Scales

I guess I knew it would eventually come down to this: Blame the Army’s institutions in some way for the horrific and senseless slaughter of 16 innocent Afghan civilians in Kandahar, allegedly by a U.S. infantry non-commissioned officer (NCO). In their search for a villain, the media seems to be focusing now on Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, where the accused soldier was stationed before his fourth deployment to a combat zone.

Before we get too involved in attacking institutions, perhaps it might be right and proper to suggest that the underlying issue here is not about failure of our Army. Perhaps the issue might be that no institutional effort can make up for trying over the past 10 years to fight too many wars with too few soldiers?

The accused NCO is an infantryman. Two weeks ago I talked with infantry soldiers at Fort Benning, Ga., and I couldn’t help contrasting them with those of my generation of Vietnam veterans. What caught my attention were the soldiers’ amazing stories of patient, selfless, introversive commitment. First I took to heart the enormous disparity in stressful, extreme experiences between the infantry and other branches and services that have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan. The senior NCOs I spoke to all had at least three, and in some cases five, tours, virtually all in close combat units. Contrast this with returning Vietnam NCOs and junior officers, most of whom in that era had only one tour in Vietnam.

Of course infantry combat in Vietnam was perhaps more intense, but close fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan was more pervasive and lasting, thus more likely to cause personal trauma in my mind. The infantrymen I spoke to at Fort Benning were different from those in my generation. They were more emotionally exhausted and drained, less spontaneous and humorless. My generation of professionals spent a great deal of time on Friday nights at the officer’s club, talking over a beer about the Catch-22 nature of Vietnam and many of the stupid and hilarious experiences we endured. None of this at Benning today. No clubs, no public displays of hilarity and certainly no beer. These guys seemed to view their time in combat as endless and repetitive. My sense is that their collective, intimate exposure to the horrors of close combat was far more debilitating than what we experienced.

This of course in no way justifies what happened in Kandahar. But I think if someone wants to place blame, it should be on a succession of national leaders who fail to recognize that combat units, particularly infantry, just wear out. Lord Moran concluded in his classic about combat stress in World War I, “Anatomy of Courage,” that the reservoir of courage begins to empty after the first shot is fired. The horrors of intimate killing, along with other factors such as fatigue, thirst, hunger, isolation, fear of the unknown and the sight of dead and maimed comrades, all start a process of moral atrophy that cannot be reversed. Lord Moran rightfully concludes that nothing sort of permanent withdrawal from the line will bring soldiers back to normalcy.

The media is trying to make some association between the terrible crime of this sergeant and the Army’s inability to treat post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury. Perhaps the Army could have done more. But I think Lord Moran had it more right; the real institutional culprit is the decade-long exploitation and cynical overuse of one of our most precious and irreplaceable national assets: our close combat soldiers and Marines.

If someone just after 9/11 would have told me that a very small Army and Marine Corps would fight a 10-year-long set of close combat engagements in two wars and still remain intact, I would have called them crazy. Well, we’ve done just that, haven’t we? But at what cost to the few who have borne an enormously disproportionate share of emotional stress?

Robert H. Scales, a retired U.S. Army major general and former commandant of the Army War College, is president of the consulting firm Colgen. He also holds a Phd. in History from Duke.
 
I usually live in the Tacoma/Seattle area and Ft. Lewis/JBLM has been having problems for years now. Bank robberies, assaults, rape, suicide murder are among the list of common occurrences coming from the base. I am not going to point fingers because I don't know all the details. However, it is well known that the 2ID and Rangers/SF here deploy ALL the time. Stress and exhaustion might play a factor in the base's woes.
 
A very relevant and insightful piece from Washington Post
March 14, 2012
Pg. 15

Consumed By Wars Without End

By Robert H. Scales

I guess I knew it would eventually come down to this: Blame the Army’s institutions in some way for the horrific and senseless slaughter of 16 innocent Afghan civilians in Kandahar, allegedly by a U.S. infantry non-commissioned officer (NCO). In their search for a villain, the media seems to be focusing now on Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, where the accused soldier was stationed before his fourth deployment to a combat zone.

Before we get too involved in attacking institutions, perhaps it might be right and proper to suggest that the underlying issue here is not about failure of our Army. Perhaps the issue might be that no institutional effort can make up for trying over the past 10 years to fight too many wars with too few soldiers?

The accused NCO is an infantryman. Two weeks ago I talked with infantry soldiers at Fort Benning, Ga., and I couldn’t help contrasting them with those of my generation of Vietnam veterans. What caught my attention were the soldiers’ amazing stories of patient, selfless, introversive commitment. First I took to heart the enormous disparity in stressful, extreme experiences between the infantry and other branches and services that have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan. The senior NCOs I spoke to all had at least three, and in some cases five, tours, virtually all in close combat units. Contrast this with returning Vietnam NCOs and junior officers, most of whom in that era had only one tour in Vietnam.

Of course infantry combat in Vietnam was perhaps more intense, but close fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan was more pervasive and lasting, thus more likely to cause personal trauma in my mind. The infantrymen I spoke to at Fort Benning were different from those in my generation. They were more emotionally exhausted and drained, less spontaneous and humorless. My generation of professionals spent a great deal of time on Friday nights at the officer’s club, talking over a beer about the Catch-22 nature of Vietnam and many of the stupid and hilarious experiences we endured. None of this at Benning today. No clubs, no public displays of hilarity and certainly no beer. These guys seemed to view their time in combat as endless and repetitive. My sense is that their collective, intimate exposure to the horrors of close combat was far more debilitating than what we experienced.

This of course in no way justifies what happened in Kandahar. But I think if someone wants to place blame, it should be on a succession of national leaders who fail to recognize that combat units, particularly infantry, just wear out. Lord Moran concluded in his classic about combat stress in World War I, “Anatomy of Courage,” that the reservoir of courage begins to empty after the first shot is fired. The horrors of intimate killing, along with other factors such as fatigue, thirst, hunger, isolation, fear of the unknown and the sight of dead and maimed comrades, all start a process of moral atrophy that cannot be reversed. Lord Moran rightfully concludes that nothing sort of permanent withdrawal from the line will bring soldiers back to normalcy.

The media is trying to make some association between the terrible crime of this sergeant and the Army’s inability to treat post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury. Perhaps the Army could have done more. But I think Lord Moran had it more right; the real institutional culprit is the decade-long exploitation and cynical overuse of one of our most precious and irreplaceable national assets: our close combat soldiers and Marines.

If someone just after 9/11 would have told me that a very small Army and Marine Corps would fight a 10-year-long set of close combat engagements in two wars and still remain intact, I would have called them crazy. Well, we’ve done just that, haven’t we? But at what cost to the few who have borne an enormously disproportionate share of emotional stress?

Robert H. Scales, a retired U.S. Army major general and former commandant of the Army War College, is president of the consulting firm Colgen. He also holds a Phd. in History from Duke.
Hits the nail right on the head, thanks for posting that.

Exhausted is the operative word in FORSCOM. Most of the guys in my outfit have been deployed 3-5 times in the past 10 years. That takes a tremendous, inconceivable toll on both the Soldier and his family.
 
I usually live in the Tacoma/Seattle area and Ft. Lewis/JBLM has been having problems for years now. Bank robberies, assaults, rape, suicide murder are among the list of common occurrences coming from the base. I am not going to point fingers because I don't know all the details. However, it is well known that the 2ID and Rangers/SF here deploy ALL the time. Stress and exhaustion might play a factor in the base's woes.
That is true of any community in close proximity to an Army base - ever been to Fayetteville N.C., Columbus Ga, Killeen Tx? Why do you think the people in Okinawa want the Marines out? We have a large population of young, immature soldiers who have money, cars and all the social ills and psychological baggage that they came into the military with. Then you add the psychological toll of years of deploying in futile conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. My amazement is that we have kept it together this long. We will scapegoat some leaders as if a GEN, COL, or CPT for that matter can keep soldiers out of trouble who are emotionally unstable, alcoholic or just plain criminal.
 
Hits the nail right on the head, thanks for posting that.

Exhausted is the operative word in FORSCOM. Most of the guys in my outfit have been deployed 3-5 times in the past 10 years. That takes a tremendous, inconceivable toll on both the Soldier and his family.

After spending the last year and a half or so with Marine Infantry, I will say this: There are three types of Marine Infantry, those deployed, those just back and those prepping to go. Most of the guys I worked with were indeed working on 3+ deployments. Some of them had done a year in Iraq, a year back, and then a year in AFG. They are a worn out crew. So what are we going to do next? Shrink the force even more. Let's hear it for our senior leadership.
 
That is true of any community in close proximity to an Army base - ever been to Fayetteville N.C., Columbus Ga, Killeen Tx? Why do you think the people in Okinawa want the Marines out? We have a large population of young, immature soldiers who have money, cars and all the social ills and psychological baggage that they came into the military with. Then you add the psychological toll of years of deploying in futile conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. My amazement is that we have kept it together this long. We will scapegoat some leaders as if a GEN, COL, or CPT for that matter can keep soldiers out of trouble who are emotionally unstable, alcoholic or just plain criminal.

Fayettenam? Yes, sadly I have. I agree about the social issues. I have met many who came from nothing but broken homes and barely passable education. If you add on top of that steady money and similarly minded buddies, bad things can happen.

Many have said the floodgates were opened to the plain criminals early on in the conflicts to bolster numbers. Perhaps in the upcoming years theses guys will not re-up or get chartered out.
 
I am curently transitioning out toward ETS and there is one thing that I have learned from ACAP. If you are not a disabled vet, you get a handshake and a goodbye. If you are a disabled vet, there are NUMEROUS benefits to seek. I find if funny how many guys report no injuries and then suddenly show up asking for TGSLI paperwork to be filled out whenever they discover this.
 
so that didn't take long. surgeon (nurse) general is now investigating the program she headed while she was commander at the same hospital while the current commander is on admin leave? so many levels of shadiness to this one i don't know where to start. i don't see this ending well for her, mainly because of the end around someone made to the politicians.

this was her baby, and if it congress doesn't like it, this will be like WRAMC circa 2004/2005 all over again, only with PTSD instead of mold.

if you haven't heard, just google around a bit. 😎

-- your friendly neighborhood staying away from madigan a bit caveman

Well yeah, it was only a matter of time before the finger was pointed. Why can't we all just accept that this soldier was a bad apple and is not representive of the typical soldier? If they want to go pointing fingers at the Army, when how about asking one major question, how did this guy get into the Army in the first place? He was a criminal and a sociopath long before he put on a unifom.
 
Well yeah, it was only a matter of time before the finger was pointed. Why can't we all just accept that this soldier was a bad apple and is not representive of the typical soldier? If they want to go pointing fingers at the Army, when how about asking one major question, how did this guy get into the Army in the first place? He was a criminal and a sociopath long before he put on a unifom.

You can bet that when this case goes to court martial the panel will be filled up by those members with multiple deployments and it is going to be tough defense that PTSD, TBI, deployments, problems back home etc... caused him to kill 16 people.

When he finds guilty you can also bet that people will be looking into questions such as why he got deployed the fourth time, why is he still in the military and how did he enter Army in the first place?
 
Navyfp... How are you working the system? I was told medical corp officers are fully fit and cant have med boards submitted on them- We will come back as fit provided we can do our jobs...
 
Navyfp... How are you working the system? I was told medical corp officers are fully fit and cant have med boards submitted on them- We will come back as fit provided we can do our jobs...

Not working the system....working IN the system. Means I am reading a lot of charts.

Yes, docs are fit unless you have had your priviledges turned off because of the condition.
 
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