Major College Athletics

[seinfeld]

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As I sit and watch the NFL playoffs and then read an article of the NCAA meeting with the president about "reforms" I remain confused as to why we (a societal we) continue to believe that football and basketball must players must have a college education. (Hockey has the junior leagues and baseball has Class A-AAA)

1. Why don't colleges own their football and basketball teams as a separate subsidiary where they can still acquire the revenue but the actually act of the sport is separated from the college?

2. Why have non-ncaa leagues not been established with any success. If you payed the players, didn't require going to classes, recruited with money and sign on bonuses i am sure you could get some great players and then all you would need is a TV contract.

With this years new playoff the TV viewership for other Bowls dropped dramatically. A sign that small changes can have big effects on people habits

I think this may be more of a tradition issue and one that has an awful lot of inertia to overcome.

 

[deleted87051]

The NCAA teams are major BRANDS built over decades with a built in fanbase of alumni and national and regional fans. No "minor league" could compete.

As an aside, the players are akin to the organ donors in a transplant program. Millions changing hands and they are the only ones not getting paid.

 

[deleted171991]

1. Why don't colleges own their football and basketball teams as a separate subsidiary where they can still acquire the revenue but the actually act of the sport is separated from the college?

Because it's much cheaper to recruit and pay athletes as amateur players and full-time college students, than as what they really are: professional players and amateur students.

College sports have nothing to do with college education and everything to do with money (and circus).

 

[ambiturner]

There's just something about the idea of amateur sports which makes people think the athletes are playing for a higher calling - honor, school pride etc - instead of money and are therefore in a more pure form of sportsmanship. Seeing the players on campus, thinking they're just regular students also makes people more interested in the games. Alumni also tend to follow players who went to their school even if they end up in a different market, which is good for ratings, jersey sales, etc.

I went to a big rah rah school and while I rarely went to the games while I was there, I will admit that the only reason I ever go back now is to see a football game in the fall. I think I would still go even if the players were paid, though.

 

[pgg]

Tradition, I guess.

I watch and love the NFL but can't stand to watch college football, because frankly the teams and players suck. Something like 1 or 2% are good enough to play in the NFL at all much less make a career of it. Worse than the players not being very good, most of the games are blowouts between (relatively) good teams and awful teams. 55-10 ... yay! When I watch sports I want to be enthralled by the world-class talent on display, not slow college kids dropping passes and blowing assignments in between shots of the band.

Every once in a while I'll go to a minor league baseball game, and it's fun, because it's a live experience and there's atmosphere and overpriced beer in plastic cups. I'd never watch a minor league game on TV though.

I figure the only reason anybody watches college football has to be the same reason people watch their kids play T-ball and munchkin football - some emotional attachment to the place or people or tradition. I'm not criticizing that at all, just making the point that college football is hugely popular for the same one reason that minor league baseball isn't.

Take away the "college" from "college football" and nobody would care about it, nobody would watch it. Just like nobody watches junior league hockey (I had no idea that existed) or AAA baseball.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Tradition, I guess.

I watch and love the NFL but can't stand to watch college football, because frankly the teams and players suck.

I am the exact opposite. I watch college but not the NFL. I enjoy college FB because of the allegiance to the school I attended. I think a much higher percentage of NFL players are thugs, entitled, and just poor citizens. I like college because I have the illusion that they are good kids who are students playing the game because they love it. I disagree about the quality of the talent at the NCAA level. There are many extremely talented players who never make it to the NFL. As corrupt as I think the NCAA and the big conferences can be and as unfair as I think the BCS and now the College Football Playoffs are, I am hooked and really love it.
I was a die hard NFL fan growing up and one season (about 13 years ago), I just just gave it up. I am no longer a fan. A lot of factors played into that with the operations of how my favorite team went over several years time. I just got sick of it and stopped watching. Honestly, I can't say I have missed it at all. I would have never thought that would be the case.

 

[Twiggidy]

The only correct answer I've been reading is MONEY

But there's alos more to it. You're right, why can't the NFL and NBA develop minor league systems like MLB? (Although the NBA does have the D-league, which is slowly becoming more recognized)

Right now the two leagues and the NCAA are all in bed together, this, the 1 year rule in the NBA and the 3 year rule in the NFL. If they didn't play along with each other, ,we'd for sure have minor league football and baseball.

Also, think deeper about the social issues behind your question.....they're there

 

[pgg]

I am the exact opposite. I watch college but not the NFL. I enjoy college FB because of the allegiance to the school I attended.

That was exactly what I wrote ... tradition and personal attachment explains most of it.

Part of my disinterest probably stems from the fact that I went to a Division II school, so I have no particular interest in how that team does now.

I think a much higher percentage of NFL players are thugs, entitled, and just poor citizens.

Yeah, but they've got talent. 🙂 The things they can do are a spectacle of marvelousness.

I'm not sure college athletes are really better citizens at heart. They just have less money to spend on hookers and booze and an entourage.


I gave up on MLB for what sounds like similar reasons to why you gave up on the NFL. I probably went most of a decade without watching a game. Got sucked back in by that freak of nature Bumgarner carrying my hometown team to the title last year ...

 

[drmwvr]

Because it's much cheaper to recruit and pay athletes as amateur players and full-time college students, than as what they really are: professional players and amateur students.

College sports have nothing to do with college education and everything to do with money (and circus).

Some schools subsidize their science departments (to name one) with the money they receive from their athletic programs. Think the Mountain West. Kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

 

[Arcan57]

Some schools subsidize their science departments (to name one) with the money they receive from their athletic programs. Think the Mountain West. Kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

In the same way that lotteries subsidize education...

 

[Ignatius J]

Need to remember, only a small minority of college football and basketball players go on to make a significant living at the professional level.

There still needs to be education there. I think there does need to be some higher reimbursement for college athletes.

70% of NBA players are broke within 3 years of leaving the league. (From ESPN documentary "Broke". Very interesting watch.)

As Jeter said, "I was an old man until I retired. Then I was young again."

Long life ahead. Athletes need to get that degree. Not only for those who won't go to the next level, but for those who will have long athletic careers ahead of them and still retire with 40-50 years left to live.

 

[deleted171991]

Need to remember, only a small minority of college football and basketball players go on to make a significant living at the professional level.

There still needs to be education there. I think there does need to be some higher reimbursement for college athletes.

70% of NBA players are broke within 3 years of leaving the league. (From ESPN documentary "Broke". Very interesting watch.)

As Jeter said, "I was an old man until I retired. Then I was young again."

Long life ahead. Athletes need to get that degree. Not only for those who won't go to the next level, but for those who will have long athletic careers ahead of them and still retire with 40-50 years left to live.

Would you hire somebody with an "athletic" degree? I wouldn't. How many of them are even accepted in a graduate program?

 

[Ignatius J]

N

Would you hire somebody with an "athletic" degree? I wouldn't. How many of them are even accepted in a graduate program?

No, I am just talking about a college degree in whatever just like any other undergrad. If that is what you were asking. May have misinterpreted the question.

I do think former college athletes who take school seriously succeed at a higher clip than the average student. Just an opinion from my observations.

Sports teaches some lessons better than classrooms- teamwork, working through adversity, competing with yourself, mental toughness, etc. Crucial skills that you won't read about in books. I'm convinced I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't play ball.

As for former guys accepted to grad programs, lots of orthopedic docs among others. Hell, Denton Cooley was on the Texas basketball team. One of the most reknowned surgeons in the country.

 

[deleted171991]

Sports teaches some lessons better than classrooms- teamwork, working through adversity, competing with yourself, mental toughness, etc. Crucial skills that you won't read about in books. I'm convinced I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't play ball.

I concur. But not professional-level sports, even if it's called NCAA. The day has only 24 hours, and performance in sports and studies can't really go together.

 

[Ignatius J]

I concur. But not professional-level sports, even if it's called NCAA. The day has only 24 hours, and performance in sports and studies can't really go together.

With the level of academic support staff major colleges provide, athletes can do both. Seen it with my own eyes. Sat next to a certain Longhorn offensive linemen in a few my pre-med classes. He got better grades than I did.

Another Longhorn RB when I was there is now an orthopedic surgeon. A former quarterback a little before that is a general surgeon as well. It's possible. I do know some athletes that got in to med school "on the curve", but that's another topic I guess.

Yes, some athletes go to school with the sole intention of it being a stepping stone to the NFL/NBA and care less about classes. That's unfortunate.

 

[epidural man]

Tradition, I guess.

I watch and love the NFL but can't stand to watch college football, because frankly the teams and players suck. Something like 1 or 2% are good enough to play in the NFL at all much less make a career of it. Worse than the players not being very good, most of the games are blowouts between (relatively) good teams and awful teams. 55-10 ... yay! When I watch sports I want to be enthralled by the world-class talent on display, not slow college kids dropping passes and blowing assignments in between shots of the band.

Every once in a while I'll go to a minor league baseball game, and it's fun, because it's a live experience and there's atmosphere and overpriced beer in plastic cups. I'd never watch a minor league game on TV though.

I figure the only reason anybody watches college football has to be the same reason people watch their kids play T-ball and munchkin football - some emotional attachment to the place or people or tradition. I'm not criticizing that at all, just making the point that college football is hugely popular for the same one reason that minor league baseball isn't.

Take away the "college" from "college football" and nobody would care about it, nobody would watch it. Just like nobody watches junior league hockey (I had no idea that existed) or AAA baseball.

This is the exact opposite for basketball. March Madness is about is good as any sport gets - kids scrambling and fighting every play. Now that is sport! I remember one year (on a Sunday in DC after AAPM in my hotel actually) I had watched some March Madness games during the day - very exciting stuff. Then that evening a regular NBA game was on....it was soooooooo boring. Athletes can be too good sometimes...which is the case in the NBA. Why bust your balls every time guarding Lebron James when he comes down the court - he is going to smoke you either way...might as well half-ass it and still get paid the same amount.

 

[sleepallday]

With the level of academic support staff major colleges provide, athletes can do both. Seen it with my own eyes. Sat next to a certain Longhorn offensive linemen in a few my pre-med classes. He got better grades than I did.

Another Longhorn RB when I was there is now an orthopedic surgeon. A former quarterback a little before that is a general surgeon as well. It's possible. I do know some athletes that got in to med school "on the curve", but that's another topic I guess.

Yes, some athletes go to school with the sole intention of it being a stepping stone to the NFL/NBA and care less about classes. That's unfortunate.

This is true playing college sports can open other doors. For whatever reason employers/educators just like being around former college athletes particularly football players. I know a few docs that played college football at a hight D-1 level, tried out for various teams and then went back to med school. I know a couple that played in the NFL too.

 

[sleepallday]

I wouldn't be surprised if high school football ceases in 15-20 years due to concerns of head injuries. If this happens I couldn't see college football surviving. And the game may have to go to a minor league system like baseball.

 

[epidural man]

I wouldn't be surprised if high school football ceases in 15-20 years due to concerns of head injuries. If this happens I couldn't see college football surviving. And the game may have to go to a minor league system like baseball.

That is probably true ....or maybe go to flag football.

 

[saloona]

The NFL and the NBA's age restrictions are the real defendants.

 

[aneftp]

The NFL and the NBA's age restrictions are the real defendants.

Football is way too violent sport. Much more than hockey. An 18 year old is not physically developed to be getting hammered by 300 pound linemen at full speed on a consistent bases. I agree with the NFL they need to be 3 years out of high school.

Basketball I disagree. Less violent sport. They should be able to play professional age 18.

Agree that NCAA and NBA and NFL profit from college sports.