Managed Care +/- Residency

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PharmerMBA2013

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For those of you with managed care experience, is a residency required to land an entry level job in the managed care field? I've talked to a few managed care pharmacists and they all seem to have residency experience. Is there anyone on this forum that got a managed care/PBM job right out of school?
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I think there is 1 poster here who got a job without residency

but otherwise you pretty much need a residency to get in, especially with the saturation these days
 
It's not unheard of to get into managed care without a residency, just like hospital without residency. The problem is that there are so few managed care jobs out there that you're competing against those that did do a residency. If you don't do a residency, the best managed care position you can find is working PA which is equivalent to an order entry position at a hospital.
 
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PharmerMBA2013 said:
For those of you with managed care experience, is a residency required to land an entry level job in the managed care field? I've talked to a few managed care pharmacists and they all seem to have residency experience. Is there anyone on this forum that got a managed care/PBM job right out of school?
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Its not what you know but who you know....A residency is a way to get to know people and make connections.
 
PharmA2016 said:
Why do you say that? What qualities do these companies look for in pharmacists?

What is average pay? Are people happy in such jobs?
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in my experience, MC pay starts lower...people like the job b/c of the hours and no weekends

as far as the competition, its limited amount of spots and its limited # companies that offer em

residency is a great way to get in
 
lorain said:
in my experience, MC pay starts lower...people like the job b/c of the hours and no weekends

as far as the competition, its limited amount of spots and its limited # companies that offer em

residency is a great way to get in
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Thanks for the reply!

I just googled, and looks like it needs "business acumen." What other kind of traits are necessary for those that get such jobs?

Is it a stable future?
 
Managed care does not pay less. It's on par with other pharmacy jobs. While I don't do weekends and nights, what I do is a specialized skill that some other pharmacist can't just jump in. It's not something that any pharmacist can't learn in 4-6 months of training but depending on what you do, there is a high barrier to entry, hence the need for a residency. An example would be retail, I wouldn't know how to do retail, I don't remember anymore what things I have to check on a script etc but if I wanted to there are tons of places where I can work to get the experience and training to do retail. With MN there just isn't that many companies.

If you're really interested, pm me and we can discuss but it basically boils down to, get a residency. And I love my job, it's nothing like retail and none of the stress. I'll post no further cause I don't want to depress the some of the pharmacist here but let's say some of us can telecommute.
 
moolman said:
Managed care does not pay less. It's on par with other pharmacy jobs. While I don't do weekends and nights, what I do is a specialized skill that some other pharmacist can't just jump in. It's not something that any pharmacist can't learn in 4-6 months of training but depending on what you do, there is a high barrier to entry, hence the need for a residency. An example would be retail, I wouldn't know how to do retail, I don't remember anymore what things I have to check on a script etc but if I wanted to there are tons of places where I can work to get the experience and training to do retail. With MN there just isn't that many companies.

If you're really interested, pm me and we can discuss but it basically boils down to, get a residency. And I love my job, it's nothing like retail and none of the stress. I'll post no further cause I don't want to depress the some of the pharmacist here but let's say some of us can telecommute.
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I guess someone should point out that there is a homogeneity within the retail positions. Managed care has a variety of positions and is not just limited to order fulfillment within a facility.
 
Some positions in managed care are PA, MTM, clinical programs, formulary management, HEDIS, Part D clinical, Part D Operations, plan management, state programs, ie medicaid, the list goes on and on.

A good residency will give you a taste of some of these jobs and then you can jump into a open job or work your way into it but because of the complexity you need a residency now or get lucky.

It's like in 2005 when Part D started, those pharmacist were at the right place at the right time and became Part D experts. They are experts at what a FRF drug is, what has to be formulary by understanding chapter 6 of the Medicare guide, the list of specialized knowledge goes on and on and it's not something you can just jump into.
 
Also if you are interested in the business aspect of managed care being a Clinical Program Manager (CPM) is a great position, where a residency isn't required. For these however an MBA is as essential as a residency for hospital work.
 
I disagree about needing a MBA as a pharmacist in managed care. Those positions are not something where you get a pharmD and a MBA and they hire you. It's a job where you are working in the company and the position is open and you take it. The person may have a MBA because some PharmD/MBA people are in the managed care but the MBA isn't necessary or needed. Someone without a MBA could have the job just as easily. The reason I mention this is because I don't want to fool someone into thinking, yeah, I'll get a MBA and try to get hired as a clinical programs director, no, you're not going to get the job just because of the MBA. Someone who has been at the job or has experience without the MBA will get it because the MBA isn't a factor. Now I do know folks getting their MBA after the fact for personal reasons like wanting to be a better manager but it's not out of the necessity of career advancement. Now if you didn't have a pharmD this is a different story, do please don't get this confused with non-pharmD MBA people who are on a different career track than us and will probably need the MBA. Also, I wouldn't want to be on the MBA track, the pay is worse than a pharmacist until you get to VP level which will take many, many years.
 
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gopher13 said:
Also if you are interested in the business aspect of managed care being a Clinical Program Manager (CPM) is a great position, where a residency isn't required. For these however an MBA is as essential as a residency for hospital work.
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A residency is the best way to become a clinical manager. MBA can't hurt but is not required.
 
moolman said:
Managed care does not pay less. It's on par with other pharmacy jobs. While I don't do weekends and nights, what I do is a specialized skill that some other pharmacist can't just jump in. It's not something that any pharmacist can't learn in 4-6 months of training but depending on what you do, there is a high barrier to entry, hence the need for a residency. An example would be retail, I wouldn't know how to do retail, I don't remember anymore what things I have to check on a script etc but if I wanted to there are tons of places where I can work to get the experience and training to do retail. With MN there just isn't that many companies.

If you're really interested, pm me and we can discuss but it basically boils down to, get a residency. And I love my job, it's nothing like retail and none of the stress. I'll post no further cause I don't want to depress the some of the pharmacist here but let's say some of us can telecommute.
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Around here (Texas) it pays considerable less than other pharmacy jobs. I took a 30k a year pay cut going from a pharmacy manager to a PBM pharmacist.
 
Pharmacy manager gets around 3-5/hr more tops, so around ~$10k difference in salary
 
Momus said:
Pharmacy manager gets around 3-5/hr more tops, so around ~$10k difference in salary
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What is the quality of life like?

Do those that do managed care residencies always wind up in managed care?

How do skillsets differ from say retail or inpatient?
 
I'd still do this regardless of income but I do know how much retail and hospital pay in my area, CA. There was no difference in pay, they fall in the normal range.

If you do a managed care residency, you'll probably be in managed care unless after you decide it's not for you.

Managed care has nothing to do with if you feel that you have some special business acumen. For the most part, you have to just have to like working in an office environment. Sure we have financial aspects but nothing is hard to understand, you just got a doctorate, no harder than the finances you need to understand to open your own independent pharmacy.

Is quality of life better? The grass is always greener on the other side, I think a lot of it has to do with the people and company that you work for, just like retail. I know people in managed care that hate their jobs because their manager is a jerk and they have to stay overtime to finish all the PAs of the day. As for myself, I work for a great place and have no complaints and I realize that I got it good.
 
moolman said:
I'd still do this regardless of income but I do know how much retail and hospital pay in my area, CA. There was no difference in pay, they fall in the normal range.

If you do a managed care residency, you'll probably be in managed care unless after you decide it's not for you.

Managed care has nothing to do with if you feel that you have some special business acumen. For the most part, you have to just have to like working in an office environment. Sure we have financial aspects but nothing is hard to understand, you just got a doctorate, no harder than the finances you need to understand to open your own independent pharmacy.

Is quality of life better? The grass is always greener on the other side, I think a lot of it has to do with the people and company that you work for, just like retail. I know people in managed care that hate their jobs because their manager is a jerk and they have to stay overtime to finish all the PAs of the day. As for myself, I work for a great place and have no complaints and I realize that I got it good.
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Did you attend any of the conferences while in pharmacy school? Do you think it's a good experience to enter the P&T competition as a student? I feel like the CA schools are super connected in the managed care world... There are a few residencies over here, but it seems like the majority are out west. The competition seems pretty serious regardless...
 
Tinkerbell22 said:
Did you attend any of the conferences while in pharmacy school? Do you think it's a good experience to enter the P&T competition as a student? I feel like the CA schools are super connected in the managed care world... There are a few residencies over here, but it seems like the majority are out west. The competition seems pretty serious regardless...
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Why do you say it's competitive? I would imagine hospitals to be more difficult
 
Residency wise, it's about the same difficulty for hospital and MC. Less positions for MC but then less people apply. Any residency is so hard to get these days.

If you're interested in managed care, join AMCP, do the p&t competition, do things to show that you are serious about wanting to do MC and you are familiar with the industry, or at least as much as you can as a student. I have to tell you, I had a whole different idea of what managed care was as a student than I know now.

No offense to some folks but unless you did a residency you barely get a taste of MC. Even working for a PBM you just do your specific job function. As a resident, I got to participate in normal things like P&T but also see various things like rebate contracting, HEDIS basically every dept in the company.

As for what I did, I didn't do any p&t or things like that, there's no secret recipe, it's just try your best and have some luck, that's why you get involved and network, show people you know what MC is and that's what you want to do.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
How does it compare to staff pharmacist pay?
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15k a year less compared to a staff pharmacist. It is totally worth it. Time is money. I work no nights, weekends or holidays. I can actually use my PTO when ever I want to. Hell, I am even taking time off around Christmas! Unheard of in retail.
 
MountainPharmD said:
15k a year less compared to a staff pharmacist. It is totally worth it. Time is money. I work no nights, weekends or holidays. I can actually use my PTO when ever I want to. Hell, I am even taking time off around Christmas! Unheard of in retail.
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I agree. As long as you can make the finances work, it's totally worth it. I think sometimes pharmacists (especially new grads) get used to the big $$$ and overextend their debt. They they're trapped. 🙁
 
Well, since we're back on the topic of salary, I'd like to again say that in my area, MC does not get paid less. If it does pay less, it's because you can do a lot of overtime in retail and hospital but can't in MC. So if you're pulling five 10 hour shifts a week, you will be taking a pay cut but same 40 to 40 is the same.

Also, there's a lot bigger chance that your salary can get huge in MC. If after years you move up the corporate ladder, let's just say you will dwarf all others in salary but that's another discussion...haha....

And remember kids, MC does not equal PBM, don't forget you can work for the provider groups, benefit management, insurance etc. There's this misconception that it's all PBM, the field is pretty big.
 
MountainPharmD said:
You want to talk about competative.....good luck trying to get one!
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MountainPharmD said:
Think about it...How many PBM's are there? How many hospitals are there that offer residencies?
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I remember you hated your job as a retail pharmacist. May I ask how you got your PBM job? Especially without a residency. Did you know someone that was hiring? Was it a family connection? Family connections help the most. :laugh: Congrats on your new job though. 👍
 
moolman said:
Well, since we're back on the topic of salary, I'd like to again say that in my area, MC does not get paid less. If it does pay less, it's because you can do a lot of overtime in retail and hospital but can't in MC. So if you're pulling five 10 hour shifts a week, you will be taking a pay cut but same 40 to 40 is the same.

Also, there's a lot bigger chance that your salary can get huge in MC. If after years you move up the corporate ladder, let's just say you will dwarf all others in salary but that's another discussion...haha....

And remember kids, MC does not equal PBM, don't forget you can work for the provider groups, benefit management, insurance etc. There's this misconception that it's all PBM, the field is pretty big.
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I will apply for a few MC residencies.

Now, I wish I didn't BOMB my P3 year. If it wasn't for that year I would have a 4.0 and could more easily get any residency I want.

If only I can ERASE my P3 year. 🙁 I have a 3.6 overall now...which is NOT special at all...god this sucks.
 
SHC1984 said:
I will apply for a few MC residencies.

Now, I wish I didn't BOMB my P3 year. If it wasn't for that year I would have a 4.0 and could more easily get any residency I want.

If only I can ERASE my P3 year. 🙁 I have a 3.6 overall now...which is NOT special at all...god this sucks.
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If you think high grades and or a 4.0 is your golden ticket to residency, all you rho chi folks are in for a rude awakening when you apply for a residency.

I did not have a high GPA nor did a lot of my friends that matched. Grades are important but more important is to be normal, well rounded, hold a conversation and other intangibles. Those that think like that with the high grades above say 3.5 are the ones that were left out while the lower gpa people got involved, hustled, and did all they could to get a residency.
 
SHC1984 said:
I remember you hated your job as a retail pharmacist. May I ask how you got your PBM job? Especially without a residency. Did you know someone that was hiring? Was it a family connection? Family connections help the most. :laugh: Congrats on your new job though. 👍
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Totally got lucky. I got hooked up by a recommendation from a friend who is with the company..

I was one of the few if not only direct hire they have had in a long time. They hire all of there employees as contractors via temp agencies. Techs have to do three months min before they can apply for a full time perm position. Pharmacists have to do 6 months before they can apply for a full time positiobn. No bennies, PTO or anything while working as a contractor. I would not have done it that way. As a contractor they can let you go without even a days notice. To much instability for me. As I said I did not have to go that route.
 
SHC1984 said:
I will apply for a few MC residencies.

Now, I wish I didn't BOMB my P3 year. If it wasn't for that year I would have a 4.0 and could more easily get any residency I want.

If only I can ERASE my P3 year. 🙁 I have a 3.6 overall now...which is NOT special at all...god this sucks.
Click to expand...

FYI: A 4.0 GPA without work experience is equivalent to a 2.5 GPA with a lot of work experience, per my Director of Pharmacy.
 
moolman said:
If you think high grades and or a 4.0 is your golden ticket to residency, all you rho chi folks are in for a rude awakening when you apply for a residency.

I did not have a high GPA nor did a lot of my friends that matched. Grades are important but more important is to be normal, well rounded, hold a conversation and other intangibles. Those that think like that with the high grades above say 3.5 are the ones that were left out while the lower gpa people got involved, hustled, and did all they could to get a residency.
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I agree, the grades are a screening tool at most. If you have a decent GPA but no involvement, no work experience, no leadership, and nothing much to talk about at the interview, you won't get the residency (or job).

BenJammin said:
FYI: A 4.0 GPA without work experience is equivalent to a 2.5 GPA with a lot of work experience, per my Director of Pharmacy.
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Maybe, but the person with the 2.5 GPA will get screened out of interviews at many places. We wouldn't even interview someone with a GPA that low at my program. Not saying a 4.0 is required, because it definitely is not. A reasonable GPA + work experience + involvement/leadership is the best combination.
 
BenJammin said:
FYI: A 4.0 GPA without work experience is equivalent to a 2.5 GPA with a lot of work experience, per my Director of Pharmacy.
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While I understand why your director thinks that, this is just his opinion and only his, so if you apply to that site you know what to expect. You can't know what other people think about gpa so the best advice is that do the best you can for gpa and start to work on the intangibles for residency interviews.
 
moolman said:
While I understand why your director thinks that, this is just his opinion and only his, so if you apply to that site you know what to expect. You can't know what other people think about gpa so the best advice is that do the best you can for gpa and start to work on the intangibles for residency interviews.
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Totally agree. The success rate of people with very low GPAs is not so hot for residency... People should focus on doing as well as they can in class and being well rounded with work, activities, etc. Why take the chance?
 
Moolman, or anybody else, what are some good residency programs that stand out in managed care?

I see the directory online at AMCP but dont know which ones have good reputations...
 
MountainPharmD said:
Ha! Did you think I lost my mind? Sorry man you are not around much anymore. I crossed over to the darkside about 5 months ago. Had my fill of retail. I hope to God I never have to go back.
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LoL, I understand that we each see what we see on each others side. Im trying to run a business as is your company. I just want to even the playing field. And keep what i rightfully purchased and dispensed. But the Dark side you did cross!!! And i will do everything in my power to destroy......:laugh:
 
sorry to revive an old thread... but I see alot of ppl talking about what you could do after a managed care residency, but are there any managed care resident out there that can share their personal experiences? unfortunately I only had the chance to talk to 1 managed care residency during the showcase... but they are a new residency and the resident they have now is their 1st one and the resident is not sure yet what/where she would be working.... i personally would not mind re-locating to where ever there is a job as long as it's a decent sized city
 
Deja said:
sorry to revive an old thread... but I see alot of ppl talking about what you could do after a managed care residency, but are there any managed care resident out there that can share their personal experiences? unfortunately I only had the chance to talk to 1 managed care residency during the showcase... but they are a new residency and the resident they have now is their 1st one and the resident is not sure yet what/where she would be working.... i personally would not mind re-locating to where ever there is a job as long as it's a decent sized city
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I have two friends who did managed care residencies, and their company hired both of them. I think most managed care positions are going to be in decent sized cities, just because that's where large companies have their headquarters, offices, etc. If you are willing to relocate, that's always a plus!
 
Deja said:
sorry to revive an old thread... but I see alot of ppl talking about what you could do after a managed care residency, but are there any managed care resident out there that can share their personal experiences? unfortunately I only had the chance to talk to 1 managed care residency during the showcase... but they are a new residency and the resident they have now is their 1st one and the resident is not sure yet what/where she would be working.... i personally would not mind re-locating to where ever there is a job as long as it's a decent sized city
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Why would you want to do that??

Read here for more info: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=944214
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I agree, the grades are a screening tool at most. If you have a decent GPA but no involvement, no work experience, no leadership, and nothing much to talk about at the interview, you won't get the residency (or job).



Maybe, but the person with the 2.5 GPA will get screened out of interviews at many places. We wouldn't even interview someone with a GPA that low at my program. Not saying a 4.0 is required, because it definitely is not. A reasonable GPA + work experience + involvement/leadership is the best combination.
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What exactly are they looking for when it comes to this? Officer positions in student organizations and class reps? I wouldn't call that leadership. That **** is a popularity contest. Hell, even I'll admit, I voted for the popular/pretty girl.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I have two friends who did managed care residencies, and their company hired both of them. I think most managed care positions are going to be in decent sized cities, just because that's where large companies have their headquarters, offices, etc. If you are willing to relocate, that's always a plus!
Click to expand...

what i'm afraid of is if the company u did a residency with can't hire you, and u can't work in a hosiptal b/c it's completely different... wonder if all managed care resident are able to secure a job that is related to the field.... in any case I think i'm going to apply for some managed care residency and see what happens

TruthRx said:
Why would you want to do that??

Read here for more info: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=944214
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-_-
 
Sparda29 said:
What exactly are they looking for when it comes to this? Officer positions in student organizations and class reps? I wouldn't call that leadership. That **** is a popularity contest. Hell, even I'll admit, I voted for the popular/pretty girl.
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Oh come on??? were you not involved in pharmacy school? it's not just leadership positions, but doing something useful with the position....starting new things...maybe creating a health fair....hosting a symposium, inviting people to come talk to your school...or doing a project at your internship site....competing in annual competitions at your school (my school participates in the AMCP P&T competition every year), going to conferences, having poster presentations, doing research, etc. there is so much else.
 
basically you can tell by someone's CV if they just did the bare minimum to get by (if their CV only lists their IPPE/APPEs, their degree and year of graduation, and maybe an internship at a chain with really boring ordinary description bullet points such as "filled prescriptions")....or if they went out of their way to learn. you can tell really fast just by a glance.
 
I'm currently in Managed Care at UHC/OptumRx with no residency/prior managed care experience and I got this position with less than a year of pharmacy experience. I was fortunate enough to be there at a time when jobs were opening as well as knowing people that helped me get in. In my particular department, no one has completed a residency managed care or otherwise, but almost all of these positions were internal referrals so who you know is definitely a big factor
 
e92 M3 said:
I'm currently in Managed Care at UHC/OptumRx with no residency/prior managed care experience and I got this position with less than a year of pharmacy experience. I was fortunate enough to be there at a time when jobs were opening as well as knowing people that helped me get in. In my particular department, no one has completed a residency managed care or otherwise, but almost all of these positions were internal referrals so who you know is definitely a big factor
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Is that the one in Southern CA? How is the company? No one has a residency there? I'm excited I can get in without a residency!!
 
PharmA2016 said:
Is that the one in Southern CA? How is the company? No one has a residency there? I'm excited I can get in without a residency!!
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Yes in Irvine. Also, let me reiterate that my dept has people with no residencies. Other depts such as P&T I'm sure are quite different.
 
e92 M3 said:
Yes in Irvine. Also, let me reiterate that my dept has people with no residencies. Other depts such as P&T I'm sure are quite different.
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What dept do you work for? Last month professor at my school said residency is necessary. How wrong is he?!!
 
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