Mandatory noon lectures

[unsung]

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Is this the norm at most residency programs?

I think I would like my life a lot better if I did not have mandatory lectures to attend every day at noon, required morning report, etc.

The noontime lectures are the worst, as I really like having a break during the middle of the day to do non-(insert medical specialty) related stuff. Even something as simple as running to the post office, or maybe just reading a book for fun over lunch.

So... any way to avoid programs with these characteristics ? I'm already hating it as a med student 🙄

To clarify... I don't mind spending lots of time on my own studying the subject matter. I just prefer being able to manage my own time, rather than having it scheduled out for me in an obnoxious way.

 

[DrBowtie]

There are didactic requirements for ACGME accredidation.
I've seen a few places that do block didactics for like 4 hours on one day which seems ever more miserable.

 

[Depakote]

You're going to be hard pressed to find places that will give you a free "lunch hour". Those didactics are going to be your free pass to sit down, eat slowly and actually have time to decompress during the day. Plus, you don't have nearly as much time or energy to study as a resident... it's good to have somebody presenting material to you.

 

[IHeartNerds]

The noontime lectures are the worst, as I really like having a break during the middle of the day to do non-(insert medical specialty) related stuff. Even something as simple as running to the post office, or maybe just reading a book for fun over lunch.

If you think you're going to have time at lunch to do anything not related to work, you're going to have a rough time with residency. I don't think I've spent more than 10 minutes eating while at the hospital this year.

 

[jdh71]

Is this the norm at most residency programs?

I think I would like my life a lot better if I did not have mandatory lectures to attend every day at noon, required morning report, etc.

The noontime lectures are the worst, as I really like having a break during the middle of the day to do non-(insert medical specialty) related stuff. Even something as simple as running to the post office, or maybe just reading a book for fun over lunch.

So... any way to avoid programs with these characteristics ? I'm already hating it as a med student 🙄

To clarify... I don't mind spending lots of time on my own studying the subject matter. I just prefer being able to manage my own time, rather than having it scheduled out for me in an obnoxious way.

Your formal education is not over simply because you got an MD.

What exactly did you think you signed up for?

 

[upright]

Yeah because those noon lectures are ever-so informative. I see everyone sitting with baited breath while a poorly color-schemed powerpoint is mumbled at them with the charisma of week-old toilet-bowl spatter.

OP, if you haven't learned yet, take heed. As you can see from above, 95% of people in medicine take pride in this blind masochism that they were spoon-fed and in turn spoon-feed to others. It's total indoctrination. The only thing missing is purple drank. If you buck you'll be painted with the brush of unprofessional. You'll be the noisy wheel and will get greased.

Besides, you should have learned by now that it's impossible to be an adult, to be captain of your own will to learn, and God forbid, structure your learning in a manner that suits your personality.

So you'll go to those lectures, you won't listen, you'll find ways to skip out, you'll set your pager to go off and leave the room mid-lecture, and if you're like 95% of the rest of medicine, you'll preach to everyone beneath you that they're vital to your education, and will disparage all those who don't voice the same opinion.

Enjoy the ride.

 

[DrBowtie]

Yeah because those noon lectures are ever-so informative. I see everyone sitting with baited breath while a poorly color-schemed powerpoint is mumbled at them with the charisma of week-old toilet-bowl spatter.

OP, if you haven't learned yet, take heed. As you can see from above, 95% of people in medicine take pride in this blind masochism that they were spoon-fed and in turn spoon-feed to others. It's total indoctrination. The only thing missing is purple drank. If you buck you'll be painted with the brush of unprofessional. You'll be the noisy wheel and will get greased.

Besides, you should have learned by now that it's impossible to be an adult, to be captain of your own will to learn, and God forbid, structure your learning in a manner that suits your personality.

So you'll go to those lectures, you won't listen, you'll find ways to skip out, you'll set your pager to go off and leave the room mid-lecture, and if you're like 95% of the rest of medicine, you'll preach to everyone beneath you that they're vital to your education, and will disparage all those who don't voice the same opinion.

Enjoy the ride.

Notice no one above defended the educational value like your rant seemed to say.

Most merely stated the fact that you're not going to avoid these conferences as they are a mandatory part of residency programs.

 

[upright]

Notice no one above defended the educational value like your rant seemed to say.

Most merely stated the fact that you're not going to avoid these conferences as they are a mandatory part of residency programs.

Your formal education is not over simply because you got an MD.

😱

 

[jdh71]

Notice no one above defended the educational value like your rant seemed to say.

Most merely stated the fact that you're not going to avoid these conferences as they are a mandatory part of residency programs.

Exactly.

If you want to graduate from residency and be eligible for boards, your program has to document your attendance to a certain percentage. In IM it was 60% of formal didactics. Which doesn't really gore your ox that much. It can be interesting. But if you need to get your oil changed or mail a letter, you can get it done if you arrange things right.

 

[jdh71]

😱

Oh please do try and pay attention to what is said, and what it not said.

That fact that your knees jerked over your own assumption is your problem not ours.

 

[DrBowtie]

Your formal education is not over simply because you got an MD.

What exactly did you think you signed up for?

😱

Acknowledgment that formal didactics don't end in medical school = endorsement of their quality and utility?

I'm the one that is 😱

 

[upright]

Acknowledgment that formal didactics don't end in medical school = endorsement of their quality and utility?

I'm the one that is 😱

Oh you're subtle. Unfortunately he said education, not didactics. My guess is someone with a brain as large as yours didn't use that word substitution unintentionally.

 

[smq123]

There are didactic requirements for ACGME accredidation.
I've seen a few places that do block didactics for like 4 hours on one day which seems ever more miserable.

And the didactics schedule is something that the site reviewers DO look very carefully at.

We do the block didactics - a 4-5 hour chunk of lectures once a week. It's actually not that bad, usually. But I guess I've gotten used to it by now. <shrug>

The noontime lectures are the worst, as I really like having a break during the middle of the day to do non-(insert medical specialty) related stuff. Even something as simple as running to the post office, or maybe just reading a book for fun over lunch.

If they didn't have the noontime lectures, you'd find some other work-related way to occupy your time. The only reason that you think that "absence of noontime lecture = mid-day break" is because you're a med student.

 

[smq123]

Besides, you should have learned by now that it's impossible to be an adult, to be captain of your own will to learn, and God forbid, structure your learning in a manner that suits your personality.

I don't think that this line of reasoning will fly with the ACGME, when you're called upon to explain your 20% attendance rate.

 

[upright]

Your formal education is not over simply because you got an MD.

What exactly did you think you signed up for?

Oh please do try and pay attention to what is said, and what it not said.

That fact that your knees jerked over your own assumption is your problem not ours.

The implication is clear. And asking what he thinks he signed up for further proves that.

Is it so hard to imagine that a program exists that allows residents the freedom to do what they will on their "lunch hour" and saves their didactic requirements for something that is actually educationally useful? I guess he should've just blindly accepted that all residencies utilize "lunch time" for BS presentations prepared by residents over the course of 18 minutes the night before, while the attending's shovel gnocchi into their faces and talk to their haggard wives on the cellphone.

Formal education my ass.

 

[jdh71]

The implication is clear. And asking what he thinks he signed up for further proves that.

Is it so hard to imagine that a program exists that allows residents the freedom to do what they will on their "lunch hour" and saves their didactic requirements for something that is actually educationally useful? I guess he should've just blindly accepted that all residencies utilize "lunch time" for BS presentations prepared by residents over the course of 18 minutes the night before, while the attending's shovel gnocchi into their faces and talk to their haggard wives on the cellphone.

Formal education my ass.

Formal was the key word kid. You're wrong. Your assumption was wrong, and it has now been pointed out to you by three different people.

But I've got to admire your tenacity and willingness to double down on your asshattery. That's got to count for something, somewhere.

 

[drizzt3117]

This is pretty specialty dependent. In some specialties (IM, specifically) morning report is run by the chief resident and residents are asked to present. In others, didactics are presented by attendings who are experts in the subject on which they're presenting, and it's actually very educational.

The implication is clear. And asking what he thinks he signed up for further proves that.

Is it so hard to imagine that a program exists that allows residents the freedom to do what they will on their "lunch hour" and saves their didactic requirements for something that is actually educationally useful? I guess he should've just blindly accepted that all residencies utilize "lunch time" for BS presentations prepared by residents over the course of 18 minutes the night before, while the attending's shovel gnocchi into their faces and talk to their haggard wives on the cellphone.

Formal education my ass.

 

[Mattchiavelli]

where is this magic residency where you get a lunch hour? Perhaps you are confusing medicine with nursing. Most places I know of would be pretty pissed if you left site during the middle of the day unless it was for some planned didactic or you'd cleared it with 6 people already. Anyway more to the OPs point, the place where I'm doing my prelim year has their medicine people go to at least 100 conferences per year, which is easy considering there are ~5 different didactic sessions per week and you have a little freedom to pick which to go to based on your interest and what your workday is like.

 

[sirenomelia]

The noontime lectures are the worst, as I really like having a break during the middle of the day to do non-(insert medical specialty) related stuff. Even something as simple as running to the post office, or maybe just reading a book for fun over lunch.
So... any way to avoid programs with these characteristics ? I'm already hating it as a med student 🙄
QUOTE]

Maybe you should have gotten a job at the post office to have your free lunch hour so someone that wanted to be there could have your place instead.

 

[DrBowtie]

To the OP....based upon your other threads re: evals, I think that your feelings are coming through much more so than you think.

 

[KnuxNole]

Enjoy lunch hour in all your rotations! Cause the residents I see(especially on surgery) eat food in like 5 minutes and get back to work! Whereas the med students take an hour break to eat in the cafeteria, or go out and eat if in an off-site clinic. Or go out to lunch if the restaurants nearby aren't too bad.

But residents can do this too. Especially if it's something chill like clinic. One of my residents treated me and another student to lunch every other day which was really nice.

 

[unsung]

And the didactics schedule is something that the site reviewers DO look very carefully at.

We do the block didactics - a 4-5 hour chunk of lectures once a week. It's actually not that bad, usually. But I guess I've gotten used to it by now. <shrug>



If they didn't have the noontime lectures, you'd find some other work-related way to occupy your time. The only reason that you think that "absence of noontime lecture = mid-day break" is because you're a med student.

Clarification: I have ZERO problems with working through lunch... e.g. finishing up that progress note while having a snack, or reading up on a disease process, or simply skipping lunch to check up on a patient.

Yeah, I mentioned it'd be nice to have time to run a quick errand... but that's not actually my main gripe with the noon lectures. It's more how it's a mandatory activity that cuts right through the middle of the work day. So what seems to happen is I'm always in a rush to see patients in the morning after required morning report. Honestly it's almost like poor patient care, because I simply don't have that much time to spend per patient. I don't care how good of a clinician you are... 5 minutes is still only 5 minutes. So after I see them I only get my notes half done before required rounds. Then the hours of required noontime lecture stuff. By the time I get out, it's like 2:30pm, and I've only gotten half my notes done. I'm always rushing to get to these lectures. And rushing once I'm out of them to get back to work.

Please don't just tell me being busy/in a rush is normal. 🙄 Truth: I actually have very little work! If I didn't have the interruptions, I'd get my work done by 11am... then having a few hrs of lectures in the afternoon would be easy. It just feels needless: I actually don't have that much work to do the entire day; yet it feels like I've been busy, always late, and in a rush the entire day... But, this is a more a med student scheduling issue. I expect that in residency I will be more legitimately busy. lol

I appreciate the fact that there are a certain # of didactic hours during residency. That's fine. It's just the way it's scheduled that bothers me. I actually wouldn't mind 1 day of didactics (4 to 5 hrs), while the rest of the days are free. Or alternatively, in an ideal world, if some of this stuff could be relegated to online modules to be completed at our discretion.

To top if off: I just don't learn very well/very much from noontime lectures. Some are great, sure. But I really just learn better reading on my own... or completing modules on my own. I have problems paying attention during the middle of the day while I'm half thinking about the patient I just left, the note I'm half done with, etc. First 2 yrs of med school, once I stopped going to lectures, I was MUCH happier... and learned much better.

I didn't study less once I stopped attending lectures. Actually, I think I ended up spending more hrs each day... yet it felt 10x less stressful. And that was because I had control over my own time.

It kills me a little to think that residency might actually be a step backwards in this regard.

 

[unsung]

To the OP....based upon your other threads re: evals, I think that your feelings are coming through much more so than you think.

Meh. I think my thread got a little misunderstood.

Just to exonerate myself a little 😉, that post office thing was just an example. (How many times a wk does one need to run to the post office? lol)

MOST days, I wish I had that noon hour free to finish that note I got half way through, or go see that patient whose conversation got cut short, etc. etc.

It's not about having "free time" to "chill". It's about having the freedom to schedule my own work. (Is that so unreasonable? In every job there are deadlines and responsibilities... but in most jobs, within those confines, you have a certain amount of freedom in how you work to get things done.)

I actually think I spend more time at home studying on my own than average... which is funny that people are jumping down my throat about not wanting to learn or what not. C'mon.

 

[smq123]

Yeah, I mentioned it'd be nice to have time to run a quick errand... but that's not actually my main gripe with the noon lectures. It's more how it's a mandatory activity that cuts right through the middle of the work day. So what seems to happen is I'm always in a rush to see patients in the morning after required morning report. Honestly it's almost like poor patient care, because I simply don't have that much time to spend per patient. I don't care how good of a clinician you are... 5 minutes is still only 5 minutes. So after I see them I only get my notes half done before required rounds. Then the hours of required noontime lecture stuff. By the time I get out, it's like 2:30pm, and I've only gotten half my notes done. I'm always rushing to get to these lectures. And rushing once I'm out of them to get back to work.

Can't you get in earlier to get things done BEFORE required lectures/rounds without rushing so much? 😕

I mean, honestly, if you're having THIS much trouble getting your tasks done before required lectures, as a student? It's going to be much worse when you're a resident, still have required lectures to go to, and have 2-3 times the number of patients that you have now.

It's not about having "free time" to "chill". It's about having the freedom to schedule my own work. (Is that so unreasonable? In every job there are deadlines and responsibilities... but in most jobs, within those confines, you have a certain amount of freedom in how you work to get things done.)

While I understand the wish to have more flexibility in your schedule, you can either learn to suck it up and accept reality, or you can continue to whine. Sure, a certain amount of venting is fine, but based on many of your past threads, you seem set on continuing to whine about things that you can't change.

And yeah, in "most jobs" you have a certain amount of freedom. But being a doctor is not like "most jobs," unfortunately. I often wish it was too, but the sad fact is that it is not. And if you haven't woken up to that fact yet, then, well, now is as a good a time as any to start.

 

[FutureInternist]

My PD was telling me that the RRC does not require a minimum attendance for these morning & noon lectures anymore. So each program can set its own cut-off. Ours is 60%