Professionalism Report For Missing Too Many Mandatory Lectures

[Detective SnowBucket]

As the title says, reported to the academic performance and review committee. How big a deal is this for residency?

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[operaman]

Depends how they spin it. On its own maybe not a huge deal, but also not something you want on your record. It would definitely catch my eye and I would scrutinize the app more closely if it were strong enough otherwise. Any other hint of trouble and I’d toss it.

What’s more worrisome is all the future professionalism issues you’re going to have between now and fourth year (assuming you’re pre clinical based on title). People who blow off mandatory things tend to blow off other important things too. This pattern tends to follow them wherever they go. Just read the public proceedings from your state medical board for stories of attendings behaving badly too. Wanna guess what gets most attendings in trouble? Not doing stupid mandatory stuff required by the board.

Take this as a wake up call and shape up. Get your butt to class.

 

[Hzreio]

Depends how they spin it. On its own maybe not a huge deal, but also not something you want on your record. It would definitely catch my eye and I would scrutinize the app more closely if it were strong enough otherwise. Any other hint of trouble and I’d toss it.

What’s more worrisome is all the future professionalism issues you’re going to have between now and fourth year (assuming you’re pre clinical based on title). People who blow off mandatory things tend to blow off other important things too. This pattern tends to follow them wherever they go. Just read the public proceedings from your state medical board for stories of attendings behaving badly too. Wanna guess what gets most attendings in trouble? Not doing stupid mandatory stuff required by the board.

Take this as a wake up call and shape up. Get your butt to class.

I mean to be fair, mandatory lectures are pretty stupid. Schools that make you go to class are terrible…

But rules are rules… if you’re warned not to do something, don’t do it

 

[OraclePL]

Definitely would catch my attention in a negative way. I didn’t like mandatory lecture either, but it takes a lot of hubris to blow off rules. Especially as a medical student or resident where you are so dependent on feedback and letters and performance reviews. this would definitely make me concerned about somebody’s judgment. Also concerns me about how that person would act as a resident. There may be more to the story that I don’t know here, but that’s just how a lot of people would interpret it

 

[Med Ed]

There are always a few outliers who are chronically late and/or absent. Some just don't show, others always have an excuse at the ready. You would be impressed to see how often sudden illness, car troubles, veterinary emergencies, flight cancellations, plumbing failures, and the unexpected deaths of distant (but important) relatives can afflict someone in a short span of time.

In my experience these individuals have a markedly increased risk of running into more serious problems relative to their peers. I'm probably somewhat biased, but if I were a PD in a program that has no problem filling each year, I would toss this app in the trash.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Student Affairs offices tend to put the applicants in the best light in the MSPE, but in cases of unprofessionalism, would it be a dereliction of duty to omit it from the MSPE?

In my interactions with faculty, it's been stressed repeatedly that lack professionalism will set a student back immensely to the point of being an application killer for PDs.

 

[Lawpy]

Depends how they spin it. On its own maybe not a huge deal, but also not something you want on your record. It would definitely catch my eye and I would scrutinize the app more closely if it were strong enough otherwise. Any other hint of trouble and I’d toss it.

What’s more worrisome is all the future professionalism issues you’re going to have between now and fourth year (assuming you’re pre clinical based on title). People who blow off mandatory things tend to blow off other important things too. This pattern tends to follow them wherever they go. Just read the public proceedings from your state medical board for stories of attendings behaving badly too. Wanna guess what gets most attendings in trouble? Not doing stupid mandatory stuff required by the board.

Take this as a wake up call and shape up. Get your butt to class.

There are always a few outliers who are chronically late and/or absent. Some just don't show, others always have an excuse at the ready. You would be impressed to see how often sudden illness, car troubles, veterinary emergencies, flight cancellations, plumbing failures, and the unexpected deaths of distant (but important) relatives can afflict someone in a short span of time.

In my experience these individuals have a markedly increased risk of running into more serious problems relative to their peers. I'm probably somewhat biased, but if I were a PD in a program that has no problem filling each year, I would toss this app in the trash.

These are pretty blunt assessments but are accurate. I’m more concerned whether OP damaged themselves pretty badly with their school because schools work hard to put their students in best light. A professionalism violation is severe and if the school is going to put that on MSPE.. that will be really damaging

I don’t know what OP can do at this point other than beg for mercy and make sure to never ever get in the school’s bad side ever again

 

[GoSpursGo]

I know you want us to tell you it’s not a big deal, but this is a huge deal. I may even agree with you that mandatory lectures are dumb, but when you’re in training if you are told to show up the you show up, period. The ones who can’t be bothered to do the BARE MINIMUM of just showing up are the same ones who wind up complaining that they have one more call day, or vanishing on outpatient electives, or having your “Flight canceled” on your way back from vacation. Not that you, personally, would necessarily do those things, but that’s the perception you have to shake when you’re interviewing with programs who do not know you. Nobody wants to deal with someone who thinks their time is more valuable than everyone else’s.

How bad this is obviously depends on how competitive the rest of your app is. It will knock you down a few pegs on a rank list. So, agree with others—beg for mercy.

 

[deleted1100659]

I disagree between the relevance of missing mandatory lectures and having professionalism issues that follow. I dont think it means someone will have issues in the future. In my class, literally everyone tried to skip mandatory lectures whenever possible because they would be 3 hour guest lectures on cpap machines or something else

Personally if I saw it when I was on recruitment committee it would have pretty much no relevance to me; its going to be subjective and different people will take it different ways. Others in the committee I was in at the time would be stricter and view it in a negative light; its very very person dependent, so even though its dumb, the less you have to worry about the btter.

Im more concerned with people showing up to rotaitons and getting good evals in there. If theres not an attendance problem in that area and the evals are good, then my thought process would be that his school tries to force pointless lectures and he did what he could to avoid those pointless lectures.

Still, you have to follow the rules of the game. Don't make yourself a target, and get on your schools radar. Making them your enemy only makes it harder on yourself.

Apologize and see if you can get it off your record, not worth having to stress/wonder about.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Personally if I saw it when I was on recruitment committee it would have pretty much no relevance to me; its going to be subjective and different people will take it different ways. Others in the committee I was in at the time would be stricter and view it in a negative light; its very very person dependent, so even though its dumb, the less you have to worry about the btter.

See, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the bolded is why I think it *is* a big deal--all that matters is that *some* people reviewing an app will see it in a very negative light, and probably at least one person one most residency review committees that the OP applies to.

Doesn't mean they won't match, or that they're going to necessarily have professionalism issues going forward. But perception is reality with these kinds of things, and if this doesn't get smoothed over the OP is going to have to combat that perception from at least a subset of reviewers.

 

[deleted1100659]

See, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the bolded is why I think it *is* a big deal--all that matters is that *some* people reviewing an app will see it in a very negative light, and probably at least one person one most residency review committees that the OP applies to.

Doesn't mean they won't match, or that they're going to necessarily have professionalism issues going forward. But perception is reality with these kinds of things, and if this doesn't get smoothed over the OP is going to have to combat that perception from at least a subset of reviewers.

oh i agree, at the end of the day its competitive out there, no matter how dumb something is you dont want any room for error. Its easier to not have stuff to explain.

But the school should want its class to match well, they should at least work with the OP on a solution rather then putting marks on a record, since it hurts the school and the OP. Thats why i think the apology route may be a good idea here. A lot of people may not care about it, but some probably will, so its not worth the risk to wonder who cares and who doesnt

 

[guytakingboards]

Agree with everyone that says it's a caution if not red flag. Residents with professionalism issues are a lot harder to work with and/or remediate than a resident with knowledge issues.

Side note: both as a trainee and now as an attending, I've seen plenty of ways people in good standing can be super shady. If you're getting caught, that's problematic. Gotta know where the boundaries are and how to play the game.

 

[Redpancreas]

As the title says, reported to the academic performance and review committee. How big a deal is this for residency?

Only one brief post so far by you so anything I say comes with a lot of speculation. Also, the usual great answerers have already weighed in.

There's two ways to look at this.

1.) Logistically speaking, how much of an issue is this for me as a student trying to jump through these hoops and match into my desired residency/specialty/location?

2.) How much does this reflect on me as a professional and how will this affect the way I do things as an attending in the future?

I hate to get preachy, but @Med Ed 's point is pretty spot on. There's always a few that do exactly what he or she is saying. There was a girl in my medical school who was frequently late to clerkship by about 20 minutes attributed to car trouble. It was obviously not car trouble because it spanned the entire year. She also was caught doing other less than ideal thigs. There seem to be a few people like this and it just seems they don't care about attendance/punctuality/rules and for whatever reason fly under the radar. My speculation is that if this has been identified as an issue and reported to a committee, your discretions span across multiple areas. Also, having experience with promotions, curriculum, and professionalism committees as an enforcer and struggler, I can tell you in my experience, people are usually not penalized for just one thing even if it's done a few times. Most people have missed or not shown up to a few lectures. The motivation to report usually jumps up exponentially when a related problem occurs in a separate domain even if that example is not announced to you.

I think the more important question to ask yourself is the answer to #2, not #1. In regards to #1, I suspect there may be a way to mitigate the issue with targeted good behavior and showing up to the right things. The hope is that you introspect and try to proactively change your own values/identity because usually by the time issues are brought to the attention of admin, there's been multiple indiscretions in several different areas. I'm saying this because I'm sure you'd rather hear this in online from a stranger than in real life and take it personally. If you genuinely don't feel like this applies and feel like all you did was miss a few lectures and are now being browbeaten, then disregard.

 

[Med Ed]

I disagree between the relevance of missing mandatory lectures and having professionalism issues that follow. I dont think it means someone will have issues in the future. In my class, literally everyone tried to skip mandatory lectures whenever possible because they would be 3 hour guest lectures on cpap machines or something else

You're right, at one point or another everyone ditches something. That in itself is not a huge deal, and does not portend trouble. However, the students I'm referring to have serious, chronic, and seemingly intractable issues with absence and/or tardiness. I specifically said "outliers" for a reason.

But the school should want its class to match well, they should at least work with the OP on a solution rather then putting marks on a record, since it hurts the school and the OP. Thats why i think the apology route may be a good idea here.

At my institution an action by the performance and review committee would only come under two circumstances: (1) multiple warnings went unheeded, or (2) the violation in question was particularly egregious. Perhaps the OP will be lucky enough to get off with a slap on the wrist.

My dream school to work in is one where such committees are not necessary, because all the students get along, work hard, and fulfill the curricular requirements without a fuss. Disciplinary bodies are a nightmare for everyone involved.

Lastly, you're right, school's do want their classes to match well. But we also have to think of our reputations and patient safety. Matching and graduating students who are known to be terrible is nothing more than a short-term fix, and one that carries its own risks.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

To all of you who answered truthfully and justly, thank you.
In reply to various posts. Yes, I am worried about having further issues with admin and attendings in the future. I have not had any warnings up to this point, never been directly contacted for any reason by administration and never had attendance or academic issues until now. However, this isn't an accident, I am simply not interested in medicine anymore and I don't think time off will help. I want to put more than the bare minimum into this but I haven't been for some time now.
In regards to the other issue at hand, I hadn't even considered to beg for mercy - I wouldn't even know how to go about it.

 

[xffan624]

To all of you who answered truthfully and justly, thank you.
In reply to various posts. Yes, I am worried about having further issues with admin and attendings in the future. I have not had any warnings up to this point, never been directly contacted for any reason by administration and never had attendance or academic issues until now. However, this isn't an accident, I am simply not interested in medicine anymore and I don't think time off will help. I want to put more than the bare minimum into this but I haven't been for some time now.
In regards to the other issue at hand, I hadn't even considered to beg for mercy - I wouldn't even know how to go about it.

What year are you? If MS2 or less, it's time to cut bait and get out. It doesn't get any easier from here if you don't have the motivation.

 

[Gilakend]

To all of you who answered truthfully and justly, thank you.
In reply to various posts. Yes, I am worried about having further issues with admin and attendings in the future. I have not had any warnings up to this point, never been directly contacted for any reason by administration and never had attendance or academic issues until now. However, this isn't an accident, I am simply not interested in medicine anymore and I don't think time off will help. I want to put more than the bare minimum into this but I haven't been for some time now.
In regards to the other issue at hand, I hadn't even considered to beg for mercy - I wouldn't even know how to go about it.

I would also consider your other options with an MD besides residency. I imagine then this would carry essentially 0 weight (as I don't know how private companies would find out about it). But happy to be correct if that isn't correct.

Just from an ROI perspective, even for people who don't like medicine anymore, I usually think it is a smart idea to do a residency as it will increase how much you can earn per hour worked (thinking realistically, obviously if you were some entrepreneur you have no income ceiling).

That gives you another option(s) besides residency if you don't match or decide there is no way you could do medicine for 3 more years without hating your life.

 

[ortnakas]

To OP - figure out if you’re burned out from stress and this too shall pass, or if you really aren’t invested anymore. If the latter, the next 3 years of school and 3+ years of training just aren’t worth it.

To both OP and everyone else- mandatory lectures are indeed dumb. And yet there will be mandatory dumb things in residency and as an attending or in any alternate career you could choose. It’s not unreasonable for your future employer to look unkindly at skipping mandatory things, especially as they’ll assume there’s a pattern of it if it made it into the letter.

Edited for typo

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

I don’t know what OP can do at this point other than beg for mercy

So, agree with others—beg for mercy.

Who should I even reach out to for this? I have no idea how to go about it. What should I do?

 

[Med Ed]

To all of you who answered truthfully and justly, thank you.
In reply to various posts. Yes, I am worried about having further issues with admin and attendings in the future. I have not had any warnings up to this point, never been directly contacted for any reason by administration and never had attendance or academic issues until now. However, this isn't an accident, I am simply not interested in medicine anymore and I don't think time off will help. I want to put more than the bare minimum into this but I haven't been for some time now.

Well this would have been nice to know.

In regards to the other issue at hand, I hadn't even considered to beg for mercy - I wouldn't even know how to go about it.

Schedule a meeting with the student affairs dean. Explain your motivation issues and ask for advice. Based on what you have shared, my recommendation would be a voluntary LOA for some self-reflection. Sometimes people come back from these leaves, other times they stay gone. Either way it's helpful to pause the situation.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Who should I even reach out to for this? I have no idea how to go about it. What should I do?

Who sent you the notice? Dean? Someone like that.

 

[operaman]

You're right, at one point or another everyone ditches something. That in itself is not a huge deal, and does not portend trouble. However, the students I'm referring to have serious, chronic, and seemingly intractable issues with absence and/or tardiness. I specifically said "outliers" for a reason.


At my institution an action by the performance and review committee would only come under two circumstances: (1) multiple warnings went unheeded, or (2) the violation in question was particularly egregious. Perhaps the OP will be lucky enough to get off with a slap on the wrist.

My dream school to work in is one where such committees are not necessary, because all the students get along, works hard, and fulfill the curricular requirements without a fuss. Disciplinary bodies are a nightmare for everyone involved.

Lastly, you're right, school's do want their classes to match well. But we also have to think of our reputations and patient safety. Matching and graduating students who are known to be terrible is nothing more than a short-term fix, and one that carries its own risks.

Spot on. Echoing the idea that schools care deeply about their own reputations and this goes well beyond rankings.

In my program we had one resident from a tip top school who ended up getting fired as a pgy2 for serious professionalism issues. The school made no mention of any issues and their LORs were all glowing. In retrospect, private conversations later revealed that they had multiple issues as a student as well but everything had been swept under the rug. Ever since, my PD has refused to even interview any students from that school. I’ve heard similar stories from other programs too. If that’s what happens to a household name top tier school, it would be even worse for mid and lower tier schools.

So yes, schools want their students to do well but they are playing the long game.

OP- agreeing with others that it sounds like you may be burned out which happens to all of us. Definitely meet with whatever assistant dean admin person seems most approachable and have a talk. Hard to say if it’s time to cut your losses or whether some time away would make you want to give it another go, but probably worth figuring that out. Nothing wrong with a LOA to see how you feel.

In some ways, Med school and training get much better and more fun as you go along. In other ways, it gets much harder. I don’t think you have to deeply love it to do well, but you do need to be able to visualize some scenarios where you could see your day to day and overall lifestyle being tolerable. For example, I have a good buddy who kinda hated med school and especially hated any kind of bs patient interactions. Now he’s a very successful and happy radiologist with an awesome work life balance. I’d personally be bored to tears doing that, but I love my variety of clinic and procedures and surgery that keeps my days varied and interesting. I don’t love it so much I’d do it for free, but I definitely find it interesting and challenging and deeply rewarding and I look forward to going to work each day.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Who sent you the notice? Dean? Someone like that.

Course director. He's otherwise not admin. I've actually done research with him and he's a very sweet and personable pharmacist.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Spot on. Echoing the idea that schools care deeply about their own reputations and this goes well beyond rankings.

In my program we had one resident from a tip top school who ended up getting fired as a pgy2 for serious professionalism issues. The school made no mention of any issues and their LORs were all glowing. In retrospect, private conversations later revealed that they had multiple issues as a student as well but everything had been swept under the rug. Ever since, my PD has refused to even interview any students from that school. I’ve heard similar stories from other programs too. If that’s what happens to a household name top tier school, it would be even worse for mid and lower tier schools.

So yes, schools want their students to do well but they are playing the long game.

OP- agreeing with others that it sounds like you may be burned out which happens to all of us. Definitely meet with whatever assistant dean admin person seems most approachable and have a talk. Hard to say if it’s time to cut your losses or whether some time away would make you want to give it another go, but probably worth figuring that out. Nothing wrong with a LOA to see how you feel.

In some ways, Med school and training get much better and more fun as you go along. In other ways, it gets much harder. I don’t think you have to deeply love it to do well, but you do need to be able to visualize some scenarios where you could see your day to day and overall lifestyle being tolerable. For example, I have a good buddy who kinda hated med school and especially hated any kind of bs patient interactions. Now he’s a very successful and happy radiologist with an awesome work life balance. I’d personally be bored to tears doing that, but I love my variety of clinic and procedures and surgery that keeps my days varied and interesting. I don’t love it so much I’d do it for free, but I definitely find it interesting and challenging and deeply rewarding and I look forward to going to work each day.

I've been set on radiology since about the second or third month of med school. I have never had any desire to interact with patients. I don't know why I went to med school at this point, but no, my parents didn't force me. This was all my idea.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

Get your **** together by clinical rotations. Missing or being late won't fly there. This might be a red flag, but years 3-4 will be how you prove whether this was deserved or not.

I was chronically late 1st year to required small group classes because of a circadian rhythm disorder. Got chewed out by my advisor and threatened with professionalism report. Made a private remediation plan with advisor w/o getting school deans involved. Got my **** together over a period of months with advisor tracking my progress, treated my sleep disorder, wasn't late once M3-M4. Honored almost everything even though I'm below average academically. Residencies loved my MSPE.

Get it together. Whether or not a committee is sympathetic to you will be if this is repeated or not.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

... Yes, I am worried about having further issues with admin and attendings in the future. I have not had any warnings up to this point, never been directly contacted for any reason by administration and never had attendance or academic issues until now.

I can't really believe this. You have a student handbook and there are procedures where you are probably notified well before you get this reprimand. For legal reasons, you were probably warned but didn't pay attention. Such a committee usually includes students and other faculty so your earning comes from your peers as well.

... I am simply not interested in medicine anymore and I don't think time off will help. I want to put more than the bare minimum into this but I haven't been for some time now.

Have you discussed this in confidence with any counselors? No one really wants you to drop out but you may need to think about an exit strategy.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

I can't really believe this. You have a student handbook and there are procedures where you are probably notified well before you get this reprimand. For legal reasons, you were probably warned but didn't pay attention. Such a committee usually includes students and other faculty so your earning comes from your peers as well.

As I said, I have never had any interaction with any faculty or student government member regarding any performance, academic or professional issue. Be it written or otherwise.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

As I said, I have never had any interaction with any faculty or student government member regarding any performance, academic or professional issue. Be it written or otherwise.

What does your student handbook say about the process of getting reprimanded for professionalism infractions?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

If it’s anything like my school, missing an important mandatory session (without appropriate excuse) can result in a professionalism citation, but if it just happens once it’s not usually a huge deal, you may just need to chat with a dean and say sorry. I don’t think it even goes in your MSPE until you accrue a couple (or if it’s for an egregious incident). But a certain number of citations results in an automatic referral to the committee. If you missed a whole bunch of mandatory sessions for one course I could potentially see how that would end up at the committee fairly quickly.

OP, I hope you take this chance to talk with someone (advisor, therapist, friend) about your feelings and your goals. I know that this time of year was the worst part of MS2 for my class. Whether it’s burnout, depression, or just a realization that this path may no longer align with your goals, there’s something under the surface here that I think you need to address in tandem with the professionalism concern.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

The whole notion that you need to attend medical school lectures to do well in school, pass your boards, or even be a competent physician is ridiculous. It's a medieval approach to learning where schools assume we all learn the same way and that attending in person lectures is what is best for us. The best approach would be to give students the freedom to learn how they learn best because let's face it.... Medical students are 22+ years old and are fully capable of knowing what works for them and what doesn't work for them since their entire lives have revolved around the academic system up to this point.

The hard part of this whole situation is that OP chose a school with this medieval approach to education. So, although I despise mandatory lectures I have to say OP shot himself in the foot by attending this school and thus should abide by their rules.

 

[Lawpy]

The whole notion that you need to attend medical school lectures to do well in school, pass your boards, or even be a competent physician is ridiculous. It's a medieval approach to learning where schools assume we all learn the same way and that attending in person lectures is what is best for us. The best approach would be to give students the freedom to learn how they learn best because let's face it.... Medical students are 22+ years old and are fully capable of knowing what works for them and what doesn't work for them since their entire lives have revolved around the academic system up to this point.

The hard part of this whole situation is that OP chose a school with this medieval approach to education. So, although I despise mandatory lectures I have to say OP shot himself in the foot by attending this school and thus should abide by their rules.

It is stupid but medical administrators and education leaders don’t care. There’s a clear power differential and the point of med school professionalism is to obey that power with no questions asked.

 

[Goro]

It is stupid but medical administrators and education leaders don’t care. There’s a clear power differential and the point of med school professionalism is to obey that power with no questions asked.

Medical education leaders do care.. That's why there has been a drive to make lectures optional and emphasize active learning.

It's more accurate to say that the faculty and Deans at those schools still in the 19th century don't care.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

The whole notion that you need to attend medical school lectures to do well in school, pass your boards, or even be a competent physician is ridiculous. It's a medieval approach to learning where schools assume we all learn the same way and that attending in person lectures is what is best for us. The best approach would be to give students the freedom to learn how they learn best because let's face it.... Medical students are 22+ years old and are fully capable of knowing what works for them and what doesn't work for them since their entire lives have revolved around the academic system up to this point.

The hard part of this whole situation is that OP chose a school with this medieval approach to education. So, although I despise mandatory lectures I have to say OP shot himself in the foot by attending this school and thus should abide by their rules.

didn't choose. only acceptance in 2 cycles

 

[Candidate2017]

I recently paid a lot of money for a 4 hour CME class, on my off day, to listen to someone who has zero medical training teach me how to be nice to patients.

I'd rather not, but this class is required to maintain licensure. Mind you, no one told me about this or any other CME requirement when I got my medical license. I had to search high and low through the arcane state website, and sift through some outdated info.

If I am audited and do not have this class, the board will levy a $5000 fine, my name will be placed on the public roster of derelict physicians, I will be required to pay for and attend professionalism classes. This is just the start, as my license will be suspended causing me to lose tens of thousands of dollars from lost income, my annual malpractice insurance premiums will be increased by thousands of dollars for the rest of my career, I will have to disclose this in every hospital credentialing process, and every time I am sued my character will be attacked as having been on the derelict physician roster.

Long story short, OP get your act together. No one cares about the many hoops we have to jump through, some of which are important and some of which are pure BS. But all these hoops have negative ramifications should we fail to comply.

 

[JoHar]

Just came here to say I think individuals in the medical profession are held to too high a standard at times and I think it negatively impacts their desire and ability to reach out and seek meaningful help when they might need it. Whether this be professional, legal, or otherwise this high stress job that also demands/expects a picture perfect exterior, I believe (totally my own opinion here), contributes to burnout.

I think that on the exterior a professionalism mark will negatively impact residency apps if it is visible to them just because of supply & demand. They are presumably looking for any means to sift through the crowd. At the same time, these people have hearts and I believe the vast majority of PDs would welcome a reasonable explanation (dealing with personally challenging times, searching for motivation, trying to find my place during medical school, etc.) If they don't I think that is a bigger flaw with how stringent our demands have become for applicants in a time when we are in desperate need for more medical professionals.

Of course, if you have no motivation, or simply have determined that this isn't for you then all of the above advice about alternative career paths I completely agree with.

Good luck, OP!

 

[YCAGA]

What year are you? If MS2 or less, it's time to cut bait and get out. It doesn't get any easier from here if you don't have the motivation.

I am no doctor but OP definitely should rule out depression before giving up on medicine. Complete apathy for med school could be from genuine disinterest in medicine, but missing mandatory stuff and not "getting" why it is a big deal is also classic MDD.

To OP, how many mandatory lectures did you miss and why?

 

[Goro]

Just came here to say I think individuals in the medical profession are held to too high a standard at times and I think it negatively impacts their desire and ability to reach out and seek meaningful help when they might need it. Whether this be professional, legal, or otherwise this high stress job that also demands/expects a picture perfect exterior, I believe (totally my own opinion here), contributes to burnout.

I think that on the exterior a professionalism mark will negatively impact residency apps if it is visible to them just because of supply & demand. They are presumably looking for any means to sift through the crowd. At the same time, these people have hearts and I believe the vast majority of PDs would welcome a reasonable explanation (dealing with personally challenging times, searching for motivation, trying to find my place during medical school, etc.) If they don't I think that is a bigger flaw with how stringent our demands have become for applicants in a time when we are in desperate need for more medical professionals.

Of course, if you have no motivation, or simply have determined that this isn't for you then all of the above advice about alternative career paths I completely agree with.

Good luck, OP!

My clinician colleagues take professionalism very seriously because they know that dishonest doctors start out by being dishonest students.

 

[JoHar]

My clinician colleagues take professionalism very seriously because they know that dishonest doctors start out by being dishonest students.

I agree that honesty is important, but OP is being honest in admitting to his/her perceived mistake. That is also why I would hope that most PDs would accept a reasonable explanation for the error and be able to move past that.

I believe that the culture of perfection further precludes honesty rather than encouraging it.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I agree that honesty is important, but OP is being honest in admitting to his/her perceived mistake. That is also why I would hope that most PDs would accept a reasonable explanation for the error and be able to move past that.

I believe that the culture of perfection further precludes honesty rather than encouraging it.

This isn't about perfection. The person missed two mandatory lectures. The OP did not get written up because he attended but slept through it or watched other videos during the lecture. The issue I have is the contention that he was not warned about getting written up after the first mandatory lecture absence. Other than that, I'm pretty sure every orientation clearly notes that one must attend mandatory lectures unless there is a valid excuse beforehand.

This could be question on the AAMC PREView/SJT (scenario 30 on the practice is about a voluntary lecture) and the SVI. In other words, this is why money is being spent on these additional tests for applicants. As a cultural norm, I think it's already pretty clear this is a professionalism expectation.

 

[Wordead]

I recently paid a lot of money for a 4 hour CME class, on my off day, to listen to someone who has zero medical training teach me how to be nice to patients.

I'd rather not, but this class is required to maintain licensure. Mind you, no one told me about this or any other CME requirement when I got my medical license. I had to search high and low through the arcane state website, and sift through some outdated info.

If I am audited and do not have this class, the board will levy a $5000 fine, my name will be placed on the public roster of derelict physicians, I will be required to pay for and attend professionalism classes. This is just the start, as my license will be suspended causing me to lose tens of thousands of dollars from lost income, my annual malpractice insurance premiums will be increased by thousands of dollars for the rest of my career, I will have to disclose this in every hospital credentialing process, and every time I am sued my character will be attacked as having been on the derelict physician roster.

Long story short, OP get your act together. No one cares about the many hoops we have to jump through, some of which are important and some of which are pure BS. But all these hoops have negative ramifications should we fail to comply.

Jesus christ dude what specialty are you

 

[ExplodingUlcers]

Jesus christ dude what specialty are you

My guess is FM.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

I am no doctor but OP definitely should rule out depression before giving up on medicine.

I have been intractably depressed since childhood.

 

[Iamnew2]

As the title says, reported to the academic performance and review committee. How big a deal is this for residency?

I think mandatory lectures are ridiculous. You are an adult and you can choose which method of learning works for you - not everyone learns sitting in a lecture. I remember when exam time came during the first two years of med school, most of our class would be home studying. Anyways sadly if your school is set on this nonsense of mandatory lectures, my advice would be to show remorse and let them know that perhaps you are not an auditory learner, etc. and felt spending your time at home learning was more useful, but that you will go to class moving forward and you are sorry. I would also tell them hey it's not a purposeful intent of "blowing off" rules, or showing any disrespect. Sometimes a little humility goes a long way.

 

[Redpancreas]

I have been intractably depressed since childhood.

OP this thread feels like a scavenger hunt where you are dropping breadcrumb by breadcrumb each one leading us in a new direction. You may as well just give us the entire picture here so we don't waste our time on your behalf. Have the mental health issues been looked into? I think you need professional input into what's going on... whether that's with a medical school counselor or licensed therapist...but I half suspect you to say that you've already talked to a mental health expect on this already, etc. etc.

I'm sorry you're going through this. At some point, I feel you must have been really enthusiastic about medical school because someone doesn't just apply and waltz right in. That said, if you are only in your pre-clinical years, I would just cut the losses at this point from the posts I have seen so far as I don't think you'd be happy in medicine. As mentioned in my previous post, the attendance warning can likely be remedied. If you want to tough it out and continue to put the effort you're putting in and try to find a way into Radiology, you can try it. I just don't think it's the best idea based on everything you've mentioned thus far.

 

[Browns99]

I agree that honesty is important, but OP is being honest in admitting to his/her perceived mistake. That is also why I would hope that most PDs would accept a reasonable explanation for the error and be able to move past that.

I believe that the culture of perfection further precludes honesty rather than encouraging it.

What "perceived mistake" are you referring to?

 

[Mass Effect]

Jesus christ dude what specialty are you

Medical licenses are not specialty specific. They're state specific.

 

[Wordead]

Medical licenses are not specialty specific. They're state specific.

Im glad I don't (or I guess have yet to) have to deal with ridiculousness like that.

 

[Damson]

I have been intractably depressed since childhood.

please enquire about ACT, ERP, CBT. ACT is doing wonders for me.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If they didn’t give you a warning or anything, they may be trying to start a paper trail in case they have to take further disciplinary action later.

This is a well known practice in corporate positions. HR will never bring you in for a sit down or issue a warning unless you have been on their radar for some time. When they actually start the paper trail, they’re trying to lay the tracks for further action if things don’t change. They want to minimize the risk of getting sued.

I would be careful because this may not hurt when it comes to residency but might be an indication that further action could be taken of this isn’t changed

 

[Goro]

If they didn’t give you a warning or anything, they may be trying to start a paper trail in case they have to take further disciplinary action later.

This is a well known practice in corporate positions. HR will never bring you in for a sit down or issue a warning unless you have been on their radar for some time. When they actually start the paper trail, they’re trying to lay the tracks for further action if things don’t change. They want to minimize the risk of getting sued.

I would be careful because this may not hurt when it comes to residency but might be an indication that further action could be taken of this isn’t changed

This definitely happens in med schools.

In addition OP, more eyeballs will be on you now.