Master and still didn't get into dental school?

[Hi Im Dent]

You think so? I thought it was partially because of my RC score. Which school would you apply to if you were in my situation?

My GPA wasn't much higher than yours, I only had a 3.89 grad GPA (one B- amongst all my A's) and a 3.1 Undergrad GPA. However your DAT Scores look better than mine I was 20AA/19TS/23 PAT/23 RC.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't your RC. I received 8 interviews with my stats. I think like you mentioned, you should have definitely applied to more schools. I applied to almost 30 since I wanted to have the best chance possible.

With your stats, you definitely could at least get 4-5 more interviews but you may have just needed to apply more broadly. If you end up needing to reapply, just make sure to rewrite your PS! Schools you reapply to will notice if you didn't change anything.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[fogorvostan]

well, I don't know anything about the "situation" of pharmacy or how bad the Carribeans are, I'm just giving him some things to consider, but if these are really that bad then nvm.
You should also look into optometry school, pdental972.

Definitely don't do either of those. Pharmacy job outlook is terrible and carribean med school is truly a scam. You have a small chance of matching into a residency. Each year that you go without matching makes it worse and worse for you - not only because of the debt, but because it's also lower the chances of you being matched the next year. You can read over on the pre med forums the horror stories people have posted.

 

[sosoreal]

Try podiatry or pharmacy, students with your gpa get accepted to those quite often.
You can also try and apply to DO medical schools since they do grade replacement, so retake the classes you did poorly in and get A's.
There's also the Carribeans for MD medical schools.
Theres physical therapy and occupational therapy, nursing too, you still have many options!

I don't think pharmacy and podiatry accepts such a low GPA. 3.0 is the minimum for even the least competitive professional schools . Your science GPA has to be higher than that.
I didn't even know graduate schools accepted students with below 3.0 GPA


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

I don't think pharmacy and podiatry accepts such a low GPA. 3.0 is the minimum for even the least competitive professional schools . Your science GPA has to be higher than that.
I didn't even know graduate schools accepted students with below 3.0 GPA


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

not according to acceptance thread for podiatry and pharmacy. I've seen as low as 2.5~2.6 for pharmacy.

 

[Jbrowndds]

I don't think pharmacy and podiatry accepts such a low GPA. 3.0 is the minimum for even the least competitive professional schools . Your science GPA has to be higher than that.
I didn't even know graduate schools accepted students with below 3.0 GPA


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Don't those schools do grade replacement though? Honestly I would look into being a nurse practitioner. Medicine is going in a direction that is making them more and more independent. You don't get the crafty art portion of dentistry but you still help patients. Or you can just keep working hard until you get in. It may take you a long time but you can do it.

If I hadn't chosen dentistry so quickly I would have done prosthetics and orthotics. I urge you to look into that program. It's all the best things about dentistry. It is a masters program but I would call them and ask if the do grade replacement.

 

[musicplease]

I don't think pharmacy and podiatry accepts such a low GPA. 3.0 is the minimum for even the least competitive professional schools . Your science GPA has to be higher than that.
I didn't even know graduate schools accepted students with below 3.0 GPA


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

everyone gets into pharmacy school, while dental schools average at 3% acceptance rates, pharmacy schools have 40% acceptance rates.
Even UCSF pharmacy is easier to get into with a higher acceptance rate than any dental school.

 

[JLT223]

I don't think pharmacy and podiatry accepts such a low GPA. 3.0 is the minimum for even the least competitive professional schools . Your science GPA has to be higher than that.
I didn't even know graduate schools accepted students with below 3.0 GPA


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You'd be pleasantly surprised. The average sGPA is 3.1 for podiatry.

 

[fogorvostan]

I know n=1, but I had a family doctor who could not fix this serious problem that I was having with my foot several years ago and ended up making it worse. I went to a podiatrist and he was awesome. Literally saved me from losing my foot which would have been devastating as I was only in high school. Some people might look down on podiatry because it isn't as "prestigious" as med school, but it would actually be something I'd consider (along with other professions) if dentistry wasn't an option for me due to grades.

I'm not sure what the stats are like for optometry school and I'm too lazy to look, but I bet someone could get a good idea by reading through the pre-optometry forums and seeing if they have an incoming class of 2020 stat page like podiatry.

If OP (or anyone else reading this) is looking for additional options, it may be worthwhile getting out a GPA calculator and seeing what your grades would look like with grade replacement for DO schools. It'd be a long route to do grade replacement + study and take the MCAT + get shadowing and clinical experience, but it may be an option.

Being a physician's assistant may also be a good alternative!

 

[738177]

Undergrad gpa 3.3 sgpa 3.1
Grad gpa 3.7

I still didn't get an acceptance.

Sorry if you've mentioned this already..
Did you do a SMP or a traditional masters? In any case, browsing through the threads here, your stats seem decent enough to get in. I wouldn't lose hope yet!

 

[JLT223]

I know n=1, but I had a family doctor who could not fix this serious problem that I was having with my foot several years ago and ended up making it worse. I went to a podiatrist and he was awesome. Literally saved me from losing my foot which would have been devastating as I was only in high school. Some people might look down on podiatry because it isn't as "prestigious" as med school, but it would actually be something I'd consider (along with other professions) if dentistry wasn't an option for me due to grades.

I'm not sure what the stats are like for optometry school and I'm too lazy to look, but I bet someone could get a good idea by reading through the pre-optometry forums and seeing if they have an incoming class of 2020 stat page like podiatry.

If OP (or anyone else reading this) is looking for additional options, it may be worthwhile getting out a GPA calculator and seeing what your grades would look like with grade replacement for DO schools. It'd be a long route to do grade replacement + study and take the MCAT + get shadowing and clinical experience, but it may be an option.

Being a physician's assistant may also be a good alternative!

Podiatry is definitely needed and has its own niche to fill. DPMs know their stuff, well. It's just not something you go into if you're looking for prestige. Most people don't know (or care) that they have a separate degree and aren't an MD/DO.

 

[fogorvostan]

Podiatry is definitely needed and has its own niche to fill. DPMs know their stuff, well. It's just not something you go into if you're looking for prestige. Most people don't know (or care) that they have a separate degree and aren't an MD/DO.

Exactly. I literally had no idea podiatry was its own thing until I started looking at health professional schools and came across it.

According to BLS, in terms of salary as of May 2015:
Physician > General Dentist > Podiatrist > Pharmacist > Optometrist > Veterinarian

 

[Ollivander]

I applied to 7 schools in July and then added 5 more schools in September..if i don't get in this cycle, I'll apply to at least 20 schools. Thanks for your advice!

That's why. You only applied to 7 schools that you had a realistic shot at. Applying in September is too late with your undergrad GPA. You need to be in the first couple of batches since it's on a rolling basis. Don't apply to state schools. Aim for the privates. I'm sure they'll accept you. Your stats are worthy of admission.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I don't think pharmacy and podiatry accepts such a low GPA. 3.0 is the minimum for even the least competitive professional schools . Your science GPA has to be higher than that.
I didn't even know graduate schools accepted students with below 3.0 GPA


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

GPA to get into pharmacy programs is truly a joke now (some schools dont require PCAT while many recommend it only). GPA that is competitive to get into pharmacy is 3.0-3.1. You can still get in with 2.8 or 2.9. Heck I see 2.5 UG GPA and 3.3 master GPA and get accepted for passion for pharmacy

carribean schools if you want to screw over your life on some random island. with medicine rapidly expanding in the US, the left over slots for residence (usually taken up by FMG international medical graduate aka carribean med schools) shrinks and shrinks as years pass. they estimate it used to be 10% leftover spots years past but its going to be like 5-6%.

 

[sosoreal]

GPA to get into pharmacy programs is truly a joke now (some schools dont require PCAT while many recommend it only). GPA that is competitive to get into pharmacy is 3.0-3.1. You can still get in with 2.8 or 2.9. Heck I see 2.5 UG GPA and 3.3 master GPA and get accepted for passion for pharmacy

carribean schools if you want to screw over your life on some random island. with medicine rapidly expanding in the US, the left over slots for residence (usually taken up by FMG international medical graduate aka carribean med schools) shrinks and shrinks as years pass. they estimate it used to be 10% leftover spots years past but its going to be like 5-6%.

Really because when I entered the average GPA for my school was 3.6. Most students in my class had above that. If that's the case now it sucks . Maybe it's the new private and for profit schools that's accepts low GPAs like 2.5. Because their tuition is like $60,000 a year.

Pharmacy is not easy and if u can barely pass undergrad , u will have a tough time. I am in a phamD/Ph.D. Program and I can tell u it's tough.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[darklordzz]

PhamD...lol. Even though I am part Vietnamese, I can tell you this is not an inaccurate observation.

 

[bobtheweazel]

OP would have a shot at podiatry if he took the MCAT and did well on it. Might have an even better shot at OD or Pharm.D.

Temple School of Podiatric Medicine was the only holdout still accepting the DAT but they've stopped as of this cycle. The current Podiatric Medical College Information Book is not accurate in that regard. With OP's below average GPA he would probably need an above average MCAT to offset it, definitely over a 500 (new MCAT scale). The podiatric schools that do have automatic GPA cutoffs for applicants set them around a 2.75, but most of the schools don't autoscreen and will review the entire application before making a decision.

I was personally invited to interview at almost all of the podiatry schools (there are only nine) and was accepted at every one that I interviewed at and I had a sub 3.0 cumulative GPA. However, I also had a 3.51 science GPA with a 32 (about 511) MCAT.

So...for OP to have a chance getting into pretty much any professional school, I would think he needs to get an outstanding score (not simply a "good" one) on his admissions test (DAT or MCAT or whatever) to offset his GPA.

From what I could find, GPA competitiveness for matriculants goes:
MD>DPT>DDS/DMD>DO>DPM>OD>Pharm.D, with grade replacement for all DO schools and a number of OD and Pharm.D schools. DPM does not offer grade replacement/forgiveness to applicants.

As for the pharmacy schools, according to the link below they have average matriculant GPAs ranging from NA to 3.0 to 4.1—so some of these schools apparently have some wicked grade replacement going on to get an average 4.1 GPA, lol.

http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone/pdfs/2015 CIB.pdf

http://www.aacp.org/resources/stude...quirements/Documents/PSAR 1516 -- Table 5.pdf

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

MD>DPT>DDS/DMD>DO>DPM>OD>Pharm.D

getting into DPT (physical therapy?) is not even competitive, how can you put it above DDS/DMD?

almost everyone who applies to DPT get in while they take the GRE for formality.

 

[JLT223]

MD>DPT>DDS/DMD>DO>DPM>OD>Pharm.D

getting into DPT (physical therapy?) is not even competitive, how can you put it above DDS/DMD?

almost everyone who applies to DPT get in while they take the GRE for formality.

Depends on the program. Went to UD for undergrad (currently #1 PT program in the nation) and it is insanely competetive. Overall though, I agree with you that it is not more competetive than dental programs.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I was strictly talking about GPA, not the size of the applicant pool vs matriculant pool. Admittedly though, this is data from 5 years apart but it's the best I can find. If anyone can find data for PT and dental schools from the same entering year then please share.

2015 PT Accepted cGPA: 3.57
2010: Dental Accepted cGPA: 3.53
So that's +.04 for PT

2015 PT Accepted sGPA: 3.44
2010 Dental Accepted sGPA: 3.47
And that's -.03 for PT

Overall, neck and neck, though I'd give the slight edge to PT. Probably depends on whether you put more weight into the cumulative GPA since it covers many more courses and a broader range of topics or if you put more weight in the science GPA since these are all science-based professional programs.

I will give you this though, if you look at total number of applicants vs total number of matriculants, then you get the overall acceptance rates which are as follows:
Dental: 41% Acceptance Rate
MD: 43% Acceptance Rate
PT: 47% Acceptance Rate
This is probably a more useful acceptance stat since everybody applies to numerous schools. Anybody's shot of getting into a specific school may be low, but their shot of getting in somewhere/anywhere is not bad. I guess dental has a pretty large applicant pool for the number of seats offered. If you wanna look at this type of competitiveness then dental school is technically more competitive than MD school.


http://www.ptcas.org/uploadedFiles/PTCASorg/About_PTCAS/PTCASApplicantDataRpt.pdf

http://www.adea.org/publications/li...oolAppEnrollees2010ClassExecSummaryTables.pdf

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

My GPA wasn't much higher than yours, I only had a 3.89 grad GPA (one B- amongst all my A's) and a 3.1 Undergrad GPA. However your DAT Scores look better than mine I was 20AA/19TS/23 PAT/23 RC.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't your RC. I received 8 interviews with my stats. I think like you mentioned, you should have definitely applied to more schools. I applied to almost 30 since I wanted to have the best chance possible.

With your stats, you definitely could at least get 4-5 more interviews but you may have just needed to apply more broadly. If you end up needing to reapply, just make sure to rewrite your PS! Schools you reapply to will notice if you didn't change anything.

Can you tell me what schools were the ones that offered you interviews? I have difficulty getting interviews with mine.

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

That's why. You only applied to 7 schools that you had a realistic shot at. Applying in September is too late with your undergrad GPA. You need to be in the first couple of batches since it's on a rolling basis. Don't apply to state schools. Aim for the privates. I'm sure they'll accept you. Your stats are worthy of admission.

I was first batch this year and I haven't been invited for supplementals or interviews yet to schools with 18AA average DAT scores. In fact, everyone applying after me seem to be getting more supplementals and invites out the gate right now. I have a 3.5 uGPA/ 3.9 grad GPA, 19AA/19PAT/22RC, and a lot of other credentials. I know someone who applied near deadline last year and got in. It's all about timing and luck. It sucks. I always wonder what time of day is my app read? Before his lunch? After? All that matters when it comes to subjective reviews.

 

[workofshart]

I was strictly talking about GPA, not the size of the applicant pool vs matriculant pool. Admittedly though, this is data from 5 years apart but it's the best I can find. If anyone can find data for PT and dental schools from the same entering year then please share.

2015 PT Accepted cGPA: 3.57
2010: Dental Accepted cGPA: 3.53
So that's +.04 for PT

2015 PT Accepted sGPA: 3.44
2010 Dental Accepted sGPA: 3.47
And that's -.03 for PT

Overall, neck and neck, though I'd give the slight edge to PT. Probably depends on whether you put more weight into the cumulative GPA since it covers many more courses and a broader range of topics or if you put more weight in the science GPA since these are all science-based professional programs.

I will give you this though, if you look at total number of applicants vs total number of matriculants, then you get the overall acceptance rates which are as follows:
Dental: 41% Acceptance Rate
MD: 43% Acceptance Rate
PT: 47% Acceptance Rate
This is probably a more useful acceptance stat since everybody applies to numerous schools. Anybody's shot of getting into a specific school may be low, but their shot of getting in somewhere/anywhere is not bad. I guess dental has a pretty large applicant pool for the number of seats offered. If you wanna look at this type of competitiveness then dental school is technically more competitive than MD school.


http://www.ptcas.org/uploadedFiles/PTCASorg/About_PTCAS/PTCASApplicantDataRpt.pdf

http://www.adea.org/publications/li...oolAppEnrollees2010ClassExecSummaryTables.pdf

The ADEA guide has information from 2013 and the avg GPA for enrollees is a 3.54 with a 3.46 sGPA

So in 3 years the overall GPA went up .01 and sGPA down .01 lol

 

[singht5]

Undergrad 2.9
Grad 3.4
DAT 20, no section below 20.
I was half way through my masters when I applied last cycle and just graduated Masters in May.
No acceptance but waitlisted at Tufts for last cycle and applied again for this cycle.

 

[Rand627]

I was first batch this year and I haven't been invited for supplementals or interviews yet to schools with 18AA average DAT scores. In fact, everyone applying after me seem to be getting more supplementals and invites out the gate right now. I have a 3.5 uGPA/ 3.9 grad GPA, 19AA/19PAT/22RC, and a lot of other credentials. I know someone who applied near deadline last year and got in. It's all about timing and luck. It sucks. I always wonder what time of day is my app read? Before his lunch? After? All that matters when it comes to subjective reviews.

This is a really negative way of thinking of things. I applied to 8 schools. Of the 8 only 1 has actually made any sort of interview offers...and that was last week. Most schools are starting to move now. You're fine!

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I was first batch this year and I haven't been invited for supplementals or interviews yet to schools with 18AA average DAT scores. In fact, everyone applying after me seem to be getting more supplementals and invites out the gate right now. I have a 3.5 uGPA/ 3.9 grad GPA, 19AA/19PAT/22RC, and a lot of other credentials. I know someone who applied near deadline last year and got in. It's all about timing and luck. It sucks. I always wonder what time of day is my app read? Before his lunch? After? All that matters when it comes to subjective reviews.

you show a very strong sense of undeserved entitlement. a 19 AA DAT is a dime a dozen now, if you get 21 or 22AA and question that, it will be more legitimate.

 

[738177]

Undergrad 2.9
Grad 3.4
DAT 20, no section below 20.
I was half way through my masters when I applied last cycle and just graduated Masters in May.
No acceptance but waitlisted at Tufts for last cycle and applied again for this cycle.

What was your ~ grad GPA when you applied last cycle?
I'm in a similar situation so i'm just curious.
At least you got waitlisted that's a good sign. This cycle would probably be better with the masters already completed.

 

[singht5]

What was your ~ grad GPA when you applied last cycle?
I'm in a similar situation so i'm just curious.
At least you got waitlisted that's a good sign. This cycle would probably be better with the masters already completed.

I had a 3.4 gpa last cycle as well. I finished my fall semester after applying with 2 B+, and A- to get a final grad gpa of 3.4

All of my graduates classes were done well with the exception of 1 B, that's all.

I'm hoping that I will get an interview from tufts for this cycle.

You are in the same situation or similar with the masters as me? Is this your first time applying?

 

[738177]

I had a 3.4 gpa last cycle as well. I finished my fall semester after applying with 2 B+, and A- to get a final grad gpa of 3.4

All of my graduates classes were done well with the exception of 1 B, that's all.

I'm hoping that I will get an interview from tufts for this cycle.

You are in the same situation or similar with the masters as me? Is this your first time applying?

I'm applying this cycle for the first time. I have similar GPA/DAT and i'm also trying to get in using my 1st semester MS marks. Will be doing an academic update this December.
Hope we both hear good news this cycle.

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

you show a very strong sense of undeserved entitlement. a 19 AA DAT is a dime a dozen now, if you get 21 or 22AA and question that, it will be more legitimate.

I agree here. While the GPAs are good a 19 DAT might not be enough. Either he's gotta apply to more schools or retake and get that 21+ like you said.

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

Delete

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

you show a very strong sense of undeserved entitlement. a 19 AA DAT is a dime a dozen now, if you get 21 or 22AA and question that, it will be more legitimate.

I like your passive aggressive style. "Sense of undeserved entitlement". Excuse me for working hard and trying to apply. You don't know me personally to know what I deserve and don't. That is very rude and I'm disappointed in your response. I don't want to pick a fight, but that was uncalled for and shows a lack of character. Please be considerate of others and try to refrain from this in the future with others. I'm sorry I bothered you behind your screen over there.

FYI, all my friends got in with 19AA last year. One with 18AA. And one with 16AA. Just keep an open mind and try not to attack people online. Being a nice person goes a long way in life. Treat others how you would wish to be treated; and it's good practice for your future patients.

 

[DreamingOfDentistry]

I don't think it would hurt to give any of the schools you applied to a phone call. If you submitted early like you said, it might be good to give them a call if you haven't heard back yet. Forget the hatahs. Just a heads up, if some of the schools you applied to that had very low averages like Meharry or Howard (which have some of the lowest...) if you aren't a minority, its a slim chance. Not sure if you're a minority or not but just a heads up!

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I like your passive aggressive style. "Sense of undeserved entitlement". Excuse me for working hard and trying to apply. You don't know me personally to know what I deserve and don't. That is very rude and I'm disappointed in your response. I don't want to pick a fight, but that was uncalled for and shows a lack of character. Please be considerate of others and try to refrain from this in the future with others. I'm sorry I bothered you behind your screen over there.

FYI, all my friends got in with 19AA last year. One with 18AA. And one with 16AA. Just keep an open mind and try not to attack people online. Being a nice person goes a long way in life. Treat others how you would wish to be treated; and it's good practice for your future patients.

I don't think I am rude. What I mean is dental school admission is very unpredictable. Schools have rejected students with stats way above their average and like you mentioned, accepted a very few students with stats below their average.

it is just not good mentality to question why I have this stats and yet still haven't got any interviews yet.

 

[Mason91]

This thread makes me scared... I have 3.27 oGPA and 2.78 sGPA and I was thinking of doing SMP but if someone doesn't get accepted with 3.9 grad school GPA, what's my option now....?

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

This thread makes me scared... I have 3.27 oGPA and 2.78 sGPA and I was thinking of doing SMP but if someone doesn't get accepted with 3.9 grad school GPA, what's my option now....?

you should do postbach to pull up that sGPA to 3.2 3.3, dont do SMP yet, do post bach then traditional masters then SMP. SMP is like an end all be all thing.

well, you will not get in dental school, most likely, if you have 2.8sGPA and 3.9 SMP GPA. As long as the dental application pool remain competitive, the schools will pick the students that do well the first time around than the students what did poorly for 4 years and did well for 1 year. just my understanding.

 

[Mason91]

you should do postbach to pull up that sGPA to 3.2 3.3, dont do SMP yet, do post bach then traditional masters then SMP. SMP is like an end all be all thing.

well, you will not get in dental school, most likely, if you have 2.8sGPA and 3.9 SMP GPA. As long as the dental application pool remain competitive, the schools will pick the students that do well the first time around than the students what did poorly for 4 years and did well for 1 year. just my understanding.

The thing is I am a microbiology major and I've taken all of the science courses in my major. Since I have a lot of science classes taken, I'm skeptical that getting several A's will do much to my sGPA. Plus, I don't even know what to take.
So, I haven't taken anatomy class and physiology (as the schools I'm applying to didn't require them and neither my major) and I was going to take them in the spring but those are sophomore/junior (2000's level in my school 1000 being freshman level and most senior classes being 4000; 5000 and above are grad-school level) classes. So I need to take more classes, right? But what class should I take? I do have C's in my both ochem classes but should I even be re-taking them? Does taking sophomore science classes after you've already got your b.s. degree even look good? Are you suggesting I take 5000 level classes?
I've done the math and if I were to take 4 3-hour classes and get A's, my sGPA will be 3.02.....

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

The thing is I am a microbiology major and I've taken all of the science courses in my major. Since I have a lot of science classes taken, I'm skeptical that getting several A's will do much to my sGPA. Plus, I don't even know what to take.
So, I haven't taken anatomy class and physiology (as the schools I'm applying to didn't require them and neither my major) and I was going to take them in the spring but those are sophomore/junior (2000's level in my school 1000 being freshman level and most senior classes being 4000; 5000 and above are grad-school level) classes. So I need to take more classes, right? But what class should I take? I do have C's in my both ochem classes but should I even be re-taking them? Does taking sophomore science classes after you've already got your b.s. degree even look good? Are you suggesting I take 5000 level classes?
I've done the math and if I were to take 4 3-hour classes and get A's, my sGPA will be 3.02.....

I think anything you can retake to improve yourself will help! You should probably retake both your ochem classes (if not just more science classes) and bring up your GPA. Take 4-5 science classes and at least get your sGPA over 3.0.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

The thing is I am a microbiology major and I've taken all of the science courses in my major. Since I have a lot of science classes taken, I'm skeptical that getting several A's will do much to my sGPA. Plus, I don't even know what to take.
So, I haven't taken anatomy class and physiology (as the schools I'm applying to didn't require them and neither my major) and I was going to take them in the spring but those are sophomore/junior (2000's level in my school 1000 being freshman level and most senior classes being 4000; 5000 and above are grad-school level) classes. So I need to take more classes, right? But what class should I take? I do have C's in my both ochem classes but should I even be re-taking them? Does taking sophomore science classes after you've already got your b.s. degree even look good? Are you suggesting I take 5000 level classes?
I've done the math and if I were to take 4 3-hour classes and get A's, my sGPA will be 3.02.....

schools dont care about what order you take classes, they just want to see you satisfy pre reqs and take plenty of upper div bio classes and do WELL in them.

first, you should need to retake all classes you get C. doing this is fine. as they are the critical part of repairing your sGPA.

second, take anatomy and physiology

third, expand beyond your major. take other bio upper div classes like immunology, parasitology, behavioral biology, insect study?, virology, hematology?. anything bio upper div. you can venture and take upper div chem too. again, any thing science helps.

u need to have a good 3.3 sGPA and do a masters with a good DAT.

but remember, any grades you get that is not A slows down how fast your sGPA can increase

even if you do well in masters and a good DAT, that sGPA you have now will be a super huge red flag.

 

[deleted632307]

This thread makes me scared... I have 3.27 oGPA and 2.78 sGPA and I was thinking of doing SMP but if someone doesn't get accepted with 3.9 grad school GPA, what's my option now....?

I feel like killing the DAT (23AA+) would help a lot in your case, as well as doing well in your SMP... OP with the 3.9 grad GPA only had a 19AA, which might not have been enough to offset his/her undergrad GPA (19AA is a slightly below average DAT score these days).

 

[amaa]

Hello! I got my MA in Biomedical Sciences & graduated in 2015. I had applied to dental school once, before getting my masters degree, and didn't get any interviews. My DAT scores was really low and my science GPA/cum GPA from undergrad were mediocre. I re-took my DAT for the second time before doing the masters program and some scores improved but some went down so I decided to re-apply after I completed the masters program (for the 2016 school year) as opposed to during it so I could re-take my DAT for the third time after I was done with the program. I re-took it about a month and a half after graduating the masters program and I got ~3 points higher. I applied to 4 schools after graduation, and got interviews at 2 of them. University of Washington (state school) & Midwestern Glendale (where I got my masters degree). I was rejected from Midwestern & wait-listed at University of Washington and ultimately not pulled off the waitlist. I am re-applying AGAIN this cycle, to a few different schools that match my stats a little better, and I am applying way earlier. For monetary reasons I couldn't apply as early as I would have liked (verification was around September) and I think that hurt me a bit. I definitely struggled quite a bit in the beginning of the masters program, just figuring out how to study at that level, etc. so my GPA isn't as high as it could be, but once I figured out what worked for me my GPA per quarter improved... This process is frustrating, but if this is something you really want to do, don't give up! I'm right there with ya! You can private message me if you want to know more about my situation or anything. Good luck!

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

I feel like killing the DAT (23AA+) would help a lot in your case, as well as doing well in your SMP... OP with the 3.9 grad GPA only had a 19AA, which might not have been enough to offset his/her undergrad GPA (19AA is a slightly below average DAT score these days).

You finally stopped lurking my friend . 19 AA is under avg for getting in but the avg person probably gets around a 17/18ish still lol.

 

[deleted632307]

You finally stopped lurking my friend . 19 AA is under avg for getting in but the avg person probably gets around a 17/18ish still lol.

Finally broke my lurking streak and yea for sure, I was referring to the average score for accepted students (which is around a 20AA now).

What's interesting (and kinda scary) is that the avg DAT score of ALL applicants has remained about the same, but the average score of matriculants increased dramatically in the past 5 years...

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Huh. This whole time I thought it was a 19! The more you know

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

Huh. This whole time I thought it was a 19! The more you know

I did a calculation in excel and it's 19.9

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

take out meharry howard puerto rico im sure the avg DAT is above 20

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

take out meharry howard puerto rico im sure the avg DAT is above 20

20 is around 90th percentile(maybe a little lower), so you are saying that there are that many people in the higher 10% of entire pool of scores? I doubt it.
20 average you are talking about maybe "average of matriculated students", but not average of everyone who took the test. It sure seems like average stats for matriculated students are going up. But who knows for sure what is really happening.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

20 is around 90th percentile(maybe a little lower), so you are saying that there are that many people in the higher 10% of entire pool of scores? I doubt it.
20 average you are talking about maybe "average of matriculated students", but not average of everyone who took the test. It sure seems like average stats for matriculated students are going up. But who knows for sure what is really happening.

i comment about that in the convo of average DAT scores of accepted applicants. not average of all people who take the DAT

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

20 is around 90th percentile(maybe a little lower), so you are saying that there are that many people in the higher 10% of entire pool of scores? I doubt it.
20 average you are talking about maybe "average of matriculated students", but not average of everyone who took the test. It sure seems like average stats for matriculated students are going up. But who knows for sure what is really happening.

Everyone should remember that average matriculated and average test taker are two different categories. Also, the average matriculated is slowly going up because of all these new exam reviewing materials like Bootcamp. They've become quite efficient in breaking down the science of entrance exam taking. Ever had friends who didn't know much but rocked standardized exams? Preps like this help a lot for those that do not have such skill. Anyway, there are still a whole heck of a lot of people who get in with 19AA still. Don't let anyone fool you. No sane person will say that a practicing dentist today who earned a 19AA is incompetent because 4 years ago they had a 19AA and they would need a 20AA to be equivalently competent today.

Second, average means average. When you look at the statistics, you need to view range and standard deviation. Many websites show their range of applicants had 16-24 in every section with a standard deviation of 1-2 points. I believe UB is one school that publishes it online. Perhaps someone who has purchased the ADEA book can shed more light. This is all based on my own time consuming research and observation.

 

[deleted632307]

DMDDDSHopeful, I do see what you're saying. Even though the average DAT score for people who ARE ACCEPTED to dental school is a 20AA, it's only an average. People regularly get in with AAs of 19 and below, while many also have scores higher than a 20. Nobody here is saying that you can't get in with a 19AA, nor is anyone claiming that a higher DAT score necessarily makes you a more qualified dentist. BUT, it's objectively true that a higher DAT score can only HELP your chances. There's no way to argue that you'd take someone with a sub-20AA score over one with a 23AA+, all other factors being relatively equal.

I was first batch this year and I haven't been invited for supplementals or interviews yet to schools with 18AA average DAT scores. In fact, everyone applying after me seem to be getting more supplementals and invites out the gate right now. I have a 3.5 uGPA/ 3.9 grad GPA, 19AA/19PAT/22RC, and a lot of other credentials. I know someone who applied near deadline last year and got in. It's all about timing and luck. It sucks. I always wonder what time of day is my app read? Before his lunch? After? All that matters when it comes to subjective reviews.

This quote, however, comes across as very entitled IMO. Yes, your grad GPA is high (ignoring the fact that in general, it's easier to get a higher GPA in grad school vs. undergrad), but your undergrad GPA and DAT scores are simply average when you consider people who ACTUALLY GET INTO dental school these days. Nothing wrong with that. But, you speak as though your stats, "lot of other credentials," and the fact that you applied first batch make you an automatic shoe-in for an early interview invite, when some people with both higher GPAs and DAT scores than you don't even GET INTO dental school at all.

I know this might be a stretch here, but have you considered that MAYBE the people who are getting interviews right now might just be more qualified applicants than you are? Instead of simply dismissing hard working candidates' efforts as merely "timing, luck, and subjective reviews?" (By the way, I haven't received any interview offers yet either, so I'm not posting this because I took personal offense to what you said.)

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

DMDDDSHopeful, I do see what you're saying. Even though the average DAT score for people who ARE ACCEPTED to dental school is a 20AA, it's only an average. People regularly get in with AAs of 19 and below, while many also have scores higher than a 20. Nobody here is saying that you can't get in with a 19AA, nor is anyone claiming that a higher DAT score necessarily makes you a more qualified dentist. BUT, it's objectively true that a higher DAT score can only HELP your chances. There's no way to argue that you'd take someone with a sub-20AA score over one with a 23AA+, all other factors being relatively equal.



This quote, however, comes across as very entitled IMO. Yes, your grad GPA is high (ignoring the fact that in general, it's easier to get a higher GPA in grad school vs. undergrad), but your undergrad GPA and DAT scores are simply average when you consider people who ACTUALLY GET INTO dental school these days. Nothing wrong with that. But, you speak as though your stats, "lot of other credentials," and the fact that you applied first batch make you an automatic shoe-in for an early interview invite, when some people with both higher GPAs and DAT scores than you don't even GET INTO dental school at all.

I know this might be a stretch here, but have you considered that MAYBE the people who are getting interviews right now might just be more qualified applicants than you are? Instead of simply dismissing hard working candidates' efforts as merely "timing, luck, and subjective reviews?" (By the way, I haven't received any interview offers yet either, so I'm not posting this because I took personal offense to what you said.)

Hey Kek,

I like the way you write; you write well. Anyway, just a few responses I want to say to your thought out response: First, I disagree that graduate school is easier; Perhaps some are or other disciplines may be, but that doesn't apply for me. I didn't go to an online school or do a non-thesis option. What I did for graduate school was the equivalent to taking 21 credits undergraduate. Is it admirable to see an undergraduate pull that many credits and maintain 4.0 semesters? I hope the answer is yes, but again, maybe it's not. It's subjective.

Second, I will not list why I'm more qualified than my peers because they would be easy identifiers and I wish to remain some sense of anonymity here. Without pulling a Trump "Just believe me." speech, I can assure you I've taken every precautionary step to go above and beyond what would be necessary to be uniquely qualified and more competitive. The only thing that I am NOT competitive against others is hands down my DAT. At a 19AA, I am overshadowed by a 23AA, so yes that is true and you won't see me argue that. I could retake, but I'm not sure how much value it really adds when I hear people with 24AA not get in to places like Touro either. It's obvious it's not just about DAT scores. @1passbbsSHAVE could speak to this more I believe--if s/he wants to.