Masters --> DO...smart or mistake?

[MountainClimber94]

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I will be starting a MS Biology program his upcoming fall. Completion of the program will require 30 units. My research project will be in collaboration with a UCSF cardiologist. I obviously didn't have the stats to get into a DO program out of undergrad (see below). After talking to my mentors (pediatricians), they advised me to pursue this route as my background is in research (bench top + public health). I do find this to be a good niche for me as I have a researcher's mindset. But my heart and passion lie in the occupation of a physician. My dream would to become a pediatric oncologist. My track record supports this desire but my current application does not present much hope for it.

I do have the necessary extracurriculars that many/all pre-meds have (research, volunteering, leadership positions, etc). One unique factor of my background is that at the age of 22 I was the lab coordinator for a university's science department.

I am wanting to know if DO schools look fondly on students such as myself.

Undergrad Stats
cGPA: 2.7
sGPA: 2.6
MCAT: 508

CA Resident

 

[Goro]

You are the classic example of a candidate at my own school's SMP. If you can ace this program, you're very likely to get into a DO school. By their nature, they reward reinvention.

I have a student gunning big time for Heme/Onc. He has the Step I score for it, and I think that he will be one of the very few DOs who can pull it off with an ACGME residency. But he's an outlier...you are most likely to be in Primary Care. Can you deal with that?

 

[Peach Newport]

Doing a masters is a good idea. Myself and countless people made it into medical school that way. 30 credit masters of Biomedical science programs are your best bet imo. My only advice is to not underestimate yourself. If you do well in the masters and have the mcat score, apply MD and DO.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

You are the classic example of a candidate at my own school's SMP. If you can ace this program, you're very likely to get into a DO school. By their nature, they reward reinvention.

I have a student gunning big time for Heme/Onc. He has the Step I score for it, and I think that he will be one of the very few DOs who can pull it off with an ACGME residency. But he's an outlier...you are most likely to be in Primary Care. Can you deal with that?

You are the classic example of a candidate at my own school's SMP. If you can ace this program, you're very likely to get into a DO school. By their nature, they reward reinvention.

I have a student gunning big time for Heme/Onc. He has the Step I score for it, and I think that he will be one of the very few DOs who can pull it off with an ACGME residency. But he's an outlier...you are most likely to be in Primary Care. Can you deal with that?

Would a Masters in Health science also be a good program to start if it was science based and research based. Even though I am not actually participating in research we are taking research based courses.

 

[sab3156]

Would a Masters in Health science also be a good program to start if it was science based and research based. Even though I am not actually participating in research we are taking research based courses.

No. How many times are you going to ask this question? Masters in Health Science is a useless degree and even more useless for medical school. You have heard the same answer multiple times, and you keep asking the same question.

As a side note, you asked about a "research based" program, and then said you aren't doing research. Those two things do not go together. Are you trolling?

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

A master’s program would be a good idea in your situation especially if it has strong ties to a parent med school.

Just out of sheer curiosity, how did you screw up your uGPA so badly?

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

No. How many times are you going to ask this question? Masters in Health Science is a useless degree and even more useless for medical school. You have heard the same answer multiple times, and you keep asking the same question.

As a side note, you asked about a "research based" program, and then said you aren't doing research. Those two things do not go together. Are you trolling?

I'm trying to get a second opinion from other people and did you notice that the question was not directed towards you ? Not everyone is going to agree with your opinion. I appreciate your honesty though.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

No. How many times are you going to ask this question? Masters in Health Science is a useless degree and even more useless for medical school. You have heard the same answer multiple times, and you keep asking the same question.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement like this. It really depends on what institution you get the Masters in Health Science, what courses you take, and how well you do (hopefully 3.8 or greater) . My Masters in Health Science for sure made a difference for me this application cycle and has been brought up favorably by all my interviewers.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

A master’s program would be a good idea in your situation especially if it has strong ties to a parent med school.

Just out of sheer curiosity, how did you screw up your uGPA so badly?

Yes it does actually have ties to an MD school, though I'm hearing more towards DO schools at this point. I'm also employed at other Hospital tied to another MD school. I'm not sure how that will help me though.

Thank you for your honesty. I was looking to get a second opinion. Im so glad you asked me this question because nobody thinks about why it happened. When I was a college student I was overly ambitious. The first two semesters I had 3.4 gpa. my gpa went downhill because I was working 30 hours a week and was overloading my self . i would take something like 20 credits per semester and at least 3 hard science classes per semester. I couldn't put the necessary study time to do well. This was a result not of laziness but poor planning on my part, and I will take responsibility and say that I hard time finding an effective study method that worked for me. That is something that I have worked on since graduating.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

Just wanted to make clear, I am in no way saying a Masters is the best route for everyone. The majority of the time doing post-bacc courses would be best. For others an SMP would be best, in my particular case I chose a Masters in Health Science over a SMP because of the connections I had already built. My Masters in Health Science was from the same parent undergrad institution in the same city. Besides doing well in my courses, I racked up 4 publications from a cellular regeneration lab and published my thesis in a journal with an impact factor greater than 18, over 200hrs of shadowing, and over 200 hours of clinical volunteering hours in a year. Much this would have been much more difficult had I chosen to do the SMP I was accepted to. Additionally because of the Masters I got a really high paying job for my gap year where I've had unique experiences that have set me apart from other applicants - not to mention an addition 6 publications from various projects related to health policy .

Getting a high GPA in a Masters will always help you there might be other paths that would be more beneficial but that depends on each individual case. I can not believe the ignorance behind the statement that a Masters is a useless degree.

 

[Robin-jay]

I do have the necessary extracurriculars that many/all pre-meds have (research, volunteering, leadership positions, etc). One unique factor of my background is that at the age of 22 I was the lab coordinator for a university's science department.

Lab coordinator for all the labs of a given subject? Did your school not have graduate students?

 

[sab3156]

I don't think you can make a blanket statement like this. It really depends on what institution you get the Masters in Health Science, what courses you take, and how well you do (hopefully 3.8 or greater) . My Masters in Health Science for sure made a difference for me this application cycle and has been brought up favorably by all my interviewers.

The guy I was speaking to in this thread has a 2.4 cumulative gpa and 2.4 science gpa. There is no way he's getting into even DO school unless he does an SMP with a linkage. Your advice is going to keep him out of medical school forever, but if he wants to follow it, that's his decision. He is just hearing what he wants to hear, and he's going to come back here later on and ask why his Masters in Health Science degree is not getting him any invites anywhere.

Just to be clear, it wasn't your Masters in Health Science degree that got you into medical school, and it's strange that you think that. Don't mistake a "favorable discussion" about something with it being a factor that got you interviewed and accepted.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

The guy I was speaking to in this thread has a 2.4 cumulative gpa and 2.4 science gpa. There is no way he's getting into even DO school unless he does an SMP with a linkage. Your advice is going to keep him out of medical school forever, but if he wants to follow it, that's his decision. He is just hearing what he wants to hear, and he's going to come back here later on and ask why his Masters in Health Science degree is not getting him any invites anywhere.

Just to be clear, it wasn't your Masters in Health Science degree that got you into medical school, and it's strange that you think that. Don't mistake a "favorable discussion" about something with it being a factor that got you interviewed and accepted.

Then what was it that got them in? And how do you know I am a guy first of all? And how do you know I do not have similar experience in Research like 'Dr. Melodias' does ? Why do you assume that? And how do you know I am not considering other career options as well where a Masters would be helpful? Like I said, Stop making assumptions !

 

[Robin-jay]

Then what was it that got them in? And how do you know I am a guy first of all? And how do you know I do not have similar experience in Research like 'Dr. Melodias' does ? Why do you assume that? And how do you know I am not considering other career options as well where a Masters would be helpful? Like I said, Stop making assumptions !

User's name: Future-career-in-medicine.

 

[sab3156]

And how do you know I am not considering other career options as well where a Masters would be helpful?

You're in a pre-medical forum... And you posted an entire thread about how you want to go to medical school and are wondering about a masters in health sciences degree. Troll?

 

[bigindian4891]

Then what was it that got them in? And how do you know I am a guy first of all? And how do you know I do not have similar experience in Research like 'Dr. Melodias' does ? Why do you assume that? And how do you know I am not considering other career options as well where a Masters would be helpful? Like I said, Stop making assumptions !

Relax. Youre taking it very personal. People are trying to help you, and you can either take their advice or leave it.

If your Master's in Health Science has a linkage (guaranteed interview or acceptance) to the school, great. If not, there are better options. Source: I did a Masters.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

The guy I was speaking to in this thread has a 2.4 cumulative gpa and 2.4 science gpa. There is no way he's getting into even DO school unless he does an SMP with a linkage. Your advice is going to keep him out of medical school forever, but if he wants to follow it, that's his decision. He is just hearing what he wants to hear, and he's going to come back here later on and ask why his Masters in Health Science degree is not getting him any invites anywhere.

Just to be clear, it wasn't your Masters in Health Science degree that got you into medical school, and it's strange that you think that. Don't mistake a "favorable discussion" about something with it being a factor that got you interviewed and accepted.

First, I didn't advise OP to do a Masters and even wrote a second post clarifying that a Masters is not the best route for everyone and that post-bacc courses are almost always a better option. My comment about a Masters were a direct response to you, because a Masters is not useless.

Second, I never said my Masters got me in, I said it played a part and it's insane to think it did not. And many of those other things I did during my Masters that undoubtedly helped me get accepted were indirect consequences of my Masters, which was my entire point that again the best route for each person is case specific.

Again I did not say a Masters would be the best option for OP this was a response to your ignorant comment on Master degrees.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

Relax. Youre taking it very personal. People are trying to help you, and you can either take their advice or leave it.

If your Master's in Health Science has a linkage (guaranteed interview or acceptance) to the school, great. If not, there are better options. Source: I did a Masters.

It does not however the school where I am doing the masters is connected to an MD school. I'm not sure how important that it. and just to clarify I have not completed my masters yet. I was just about to start which is the purpose of my post.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

You're in a pre-medical forum... And you posted an entire thread about how you want to go to medical school and are wondering about a masters in health sciences degree. Troll?

But you you told me that all Masters in health science degrees were useless which is not necessarily true. It's one thing to say that a Masters degree is not going to help me for entry into medical school. But to say that all masters in health sciences degrees are useless ? That's a pretty bold statement...
Yes but I am also considering other careers in medicine in case this does not work out. If it does not I will have to consider other options right? That's what most people do. If I don't become a doctor I'm not just going to become unemployed. I will have to find an alternative career path

 

[bigindian4891]

It does not however the school where I am doing the masters is connected to an MD school. I'm not sure how important that it. and just to clarify I have not completed my masters yet. I was just about to start which is the purpose of my post.

A lot of MD schools have a Masters program. That doesn't mean anything.

Looking across your other post, @sab3156 is right. You have two goals if you want any chance of getting to med school: get that GPA to at least 3.0, and take the MCAT and kill it. You haven't done either yet. A "research" masters does not help with either. As other people mentioned, post-bac straight-As will help, much more than retaking prerequisites. A masters is a step you can consider much further down the line. Theres no way around it, your back is against the wall for medical school, and a health science masters is not the golden ticket.

If, however, you want to do something else, by all means go for it. But make that distinction clear.

 

[giguerex35]

OP here’s what I’d do if I were you. Do a post bacc and get numbers above 3.0 and as close to 3.2 as you can. The research masters prob won’t do much even if it is linked to an md school because your gpa is way too far away from competitive so probably not the best idea. Test the waters after the post bacc and then if still no luck I’d do smp. Obviously others on here won’t agree but if you’re serious about this path that’s what I’d do even if It takes awhile

 

[Robin-jay]

OP here’s what I’d do if I were you. Do a post bacc and get numbers above 3.0 and as close to 3.2 as you can. The research masters prob won’t do much even if it is linked to an md school because your gpa is way too far away from competitive so probably not the best idea. Test the waters after the post bacc and then if still no luck I’d do smp. Obviously others on here won’t agree but if you’re serious about this path that’s what I’d do even if It takes awhile

It also depends on how many credits his research masters is, and how difficult the courses are.

20 credits of A's won't do much.

30 credits of half A's/B's won't do much.

OP needs 30+ credits of A's. That may actually be enough to get him to 3.0 GPA.

Something like that would be ideal if he goes the master degree route.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

It also depends on how many credits his research masters is, and how difficult the courses are.

20 credits of A's won't do much.

30 credits of half A's/B's won't do much.

OP needs 30+ credits of A's. That may actually be enough to get him to 3.0 GPA.

Something like that would be ideal if he goes the master degree route.

Masters grades (GPA) are completely separate from undergrad GPA. So there will be no change to OPs undergrad GPA if they decide to do a Masters regardless of how they do.

 

[Robin-jay]

Masters grades (GPA) are completely separate from undergrad GPA. So there will be no change to OPs undergrad GPA if they decide to do a Masters regardless of how they do.

Very true, but they do change the overall cGPA and sGPA.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

Very true, but they do change the overall cGPA and sGPA.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. In my experience my Masters GPA did not change my overall cGPA and sGPA but I did only apply MD (they keep them both completely separate), not sure if it is different for DO schools.

 

[Robin-jay]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. In my experience my Masters GPA did not change my overall cGPA and sGPA but I did only apply MD (they keep them both completely separate), not sure if it is different for DO schools.

Ah maybe it doesn't change for MD. For DO, I believe it changes. I was assuming OP would be going the DO route under his circumstances.

 

[mc_bio19]

Master's will change the "overall" gpa for DO schools but not influence the "undergrad" gpa. The extent to which a Master's degree will help will depend on whether the schools focus more on "undergrad" or "overall" gpas for admissions. I would not suggest a Master's degree with your stats unless it has a linkage (guaranteed interview or acceptance). Post-bacc work to bring up your gpa is preferable.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

It also depends on how many credits his research masters is, and how difficult the courses are.

20 credits of A's won't do much.

30 credits of half A's/B's won't do much.

OP needs 30+ credits of A's. That may actually be enough to get him to 3.0 GPA.

Something like that would be ideal if he goes the master degree route.

The Masters program is 36 credits. It consists of 18 credits of advanced clinical laboratory science courses such as pathophysiology of disease, advanced clinical immunohematology etc, and 18 credits of courses and other courses such as healthcare ethics. But normally wouldn't I need to take more credits of A s in order to boost my gpa ?

The thing is I feel like I have taken so many undergrad courses in Biology especially in 3000 or 4000 level that if I try to do a DIY post bacc I may end up just retaking courses because I have already taken most classes that are offered. And i know they say instead of retaking courses it's better to take advanced courses in the subject. But courses in undergrad do not go beyond 3000 or 4000 level (I was a biology major ) because that is the level of courses I was already taking. I want to retake courses in Biology in advanced level. That's why I thought the masters could allow me to take advanced courses in sciences.
My second option is to see if I can get into a second degree bachelor's program where at least I could gain certification in cls while also taking courses at the undergrad level in histology and clinical chemistry and medical Microbiology for example and a lot of those courses mimic medical school courses as @Goro has said in previous posts.
Currently I do work as a lab tech at a hospital but unfortunately they have me running samples and doing the most basic tasks. I do feel like it is an insult to my intelligence, and I want to be able to test samples which the certification would be useful for!

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

Just wanted to make clear, I am in no way saying a Masters is the best route for everyone. The majority of the time doing post-bacc courses would be best. For others an SMP would be best, in my particular case I chose a Masters in Health Science over a SMP because of the connections I had already built. My Masters in Health Science was from the same parent undergrad institution in the same city. Besides doing well in my courses, I racked up 4 publications from a cellular regeneration lab and published my thesis in a journal with an impact factor greater than 18, over 200hrs of shadowing, and over 200 hours of clinical volunteering hours in a year. Much this would have been much more difficult had I chosen to do the SMP I was accepted to. Additionally because of the Masters I got a really high paying job for my gap year where I've had unique experiences that have set me apart from other applicants - not to mention an addition 6 publications from various projects related to health policy .

Getting a high GPA in a Masters will always help you there might be other paths that would be more beneficial but that depends on each individual case. I can not believe the ignorance behind the statement that a Masters is a useless degree.

I agree that everyones path may be different. I think in the end it all depends on your experiennces and the actual application, strengths or weaknesses. Thank you for the insight.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

A lot of MD schools have a Masters program. That doesn't mean anything.

Looking across your other post, @sab3156 is right. You have two goals if you want any chance of getting to med school: get that GPA to at least 3.0, and take the MCAT and kill it. You haven't done either yet. A "research" masters does not help with either. As other people mentioned, post-bac straight-As will help, much more than retaking prerequisites. A masters is a step you can consider much further down the line. Theres no way around it, your back is against the wall for medical school, and a health science masters is not the golden ticket.

If, however, you want to do something else, by all means go for it. But make that distinction clear.

Thank you for the insight. I agree that a post-bacc would be beneficial.

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

OP here’s what I’d do if I were you. Do a post bacc and get numbers above 3.0 and as close to 3.2 as you can. The research masters prob won’t do much even if it is linked to an md school because your gpa is way too far away from competitive so probably not the best idea. Test the waters after the post bacc and then if still no luck I’d do smp. Obviously others on here won’t agree but if you’re serious about this path that’s what I’d do even if It takes awhile

Thank you for the insight! I will continue taking post bacc until my gpa is 3.0. I will just do a second bachelors degree because thats how many credits it will take 🙂. I am excited!

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

Master's will change the "overall" gpa for DO schools but not influence the "undergrad" gpa. The extent to which a Master's degree will help will depend on whether the schools focus more on "undergrad" or "overall" gpas for admissions. I would not suggest a Master's degree with your stats unless it has a linkage (guaranteed interview or acceptance). Post-bacc work to bring up your gpa is preferable.

Is it okay to do post bacc at a community college even though the biology courses I took in the past were 3000- 4000 level courses? I figured its better to take new classes then retake the old ones?

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

I will be starting a MS Biology program his upcoming fall. Completion of the program will require 30 units. My research project will be in collaboration with a UCSF cardiologist. I obviously didn't have the stats to get into a DO program out of undergrad (see below). After talking to my mentors (pediatricians), they advised me to pursue this route as my background is in research (bench top + public health). I do find this to be a good niche for me as I have a researcher's mindset. But my heart and passion lie in the occupation of a physician. My dream would to become a pediatric oncologist. My track record supports this desire but my current application does not present much hope for it.

I do have the necessary extracurriculars that many/all pre-meds have (research, volunteering, leadership positions, etc). One unique factor of my background is that at the age of 22 I was the lab coordinator for a university's science department.

I am wanting to know if DO schools look fondly on students such as myself.

Undergrad Stats
cGPA: 2.7
sGPA: 2.6
MCAT: 508

CA Resident

Hello, I am just curious on how the app cycle is going for you! 🙂

 

[jdrb0130]

The Masters program is 36 credits. It consists of 18 credits of advanced clinical laboratory science courses such as pathophysiology of disease, advanced clinical immunohematology etc, and 18 credits of courses and other courses such as healthcare ethics. But normally wouldn't I need to take more credits of A s in order to boost my gpa ?

The thing is I feel like I have taken so many undergrad courses in Biology especially in 3000 or 4000 level that if I try to do a DIY post bacc I may end up just retaking courses because I have already taken most classes that are offered. And i know they say instead of retaking courses it's better to take advanced courses in the subject. But courses in undergrad do not go beyond 3000 or 4000 level (I was a biology major ) because that is the level of courses I was already taking. I want to retake courses in Biology in advanced level. That's why I thought the masters could allow me to take advanced courses in sciences.
My second option is to see if I can get into a second degree bachelor's program where at least I could gain certification in cls while also taking courses at the undergrad level in histology and clinical chemistry and medical Microbiology for example and a lot of those courses mimic medical school courses as @Goro has said in previous posts.
Currently I do work as a lab tech at a hospital but unfortunately they have me running samples and doing the most basic tasks. I do feel like it is an insult to my intelligence, and I want to be able to test samples which the certification would be useful for!

Part of this is me. I've taken many courses. I am planning to apply to the masters and post bacc programs with linkages and do really well on the MCAT!!!Good luck to you!!!

 

[Futurecareerinmedicine]

Part of this is me. I've taken many courses. I am planning to apply to the masters and post bacc programs with linkages and do really well on the MCAT!!!Good luck to you!!!

Overall, I have probably taken over 150 credits of classes! I should have gotten a masters by now ! lol Yes there is only so many classes you take, especially in Biology and I have taken Immunology, Virology, Genetics, Forensics, Microbiology, Cell Physiology, Anatomy I, Plant Science, and Zoology and generally did terrible in most of the courses hence my gpa... And I prefer to take Biology related courses to mimic the typical medical school curriculum, and I would love to take courses like Histology, Clinical Microbiology ,etc, but my school offers clinical microbiology to nursing majors only and there`s only 1-2 courses I haven`t taken yet that are offered in Biology. What kind of Masters are you applying for!
Thank you and I wish you the best of luck as well!!

To me it does not make sense to take lower level courses like 1000 or 2000 level courses if I have already these advanced biology courses. Wouldnt it be better to take advanced level science courses at the graduate level? Even if I got A`s in these courses would that even matter?! I am sure adcoms will look at the level of the courses and notice that the courses are lower level that what I was previously taking before... I could be wrong..