master's or postbaccalaureate

[charmedgrad]

is getting a masters degree better than doing a postbaccalaureate if one had a really bad undergrad GPA (like a 2.5 overall gpa)

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[st0w]

That depends. Postbaccs are generally for people who haven't taken the prereqs. So if you haven't, then you'll definitely need a postbacc.

With that said, if you have taken them and your grades are around that same range, then you would probably want to take a postbacc to prove you can handle the workload.

Adcoms don't necessarily place much weight on a typical Master's programs, as there can be a ton of grade inflation in them. You might want to look into an SMP, though. Special Master's Programs. They're designed specifically for those who want to go into medicine but lack the undergraduate record to gain admission. Georgetown has one of the most well-known programs, as does Drexel, BU, Ohio (I think?), Tufts... There's others, too. If you do some searching, you'll find tons of info on them.

 

[zed350]

is getting a masters degree better than doing a postbaccalaureate if one had a really bad undergrad GPA (like a 2.5 overall gpa)

It prolly wont help too much as your GPA during your Masters will go under the graduate GPA column and adcoms do not weigh it as heavily as undergrad GPA. Your best bet would be a Postbacc and lots of it if your GPA really is 2.5.

 

[Law2Doc]

is getting a masters degree better than doing a postbaccalaureate if one had a really bad undergrad GPA (like a 2.5 overall gpa)

There really isn't a better or worse. You have to try and address your shortcomings, as well as give adcoms confidence you can handle the work. A postbac is good for pulling up your grades while a masters (esp an SMP) tends to be helpful if you are just trying to show you can thrive on med school level sciences, and put up a track record on A's. The catch is that most of the better SMPs want a GPA of close to 3.0 to start, so sometimes you see people having to do a combo of postbac capped off with an SMP. The bottom line is that with a 2.5 it's going to take a while to dig out of that hole. Expect to have to spend several years of getting A's whichever path you pick. Thus a one year masters probably won't be regarded as enough.

 

[Law2Doc]

Postbaccs are generally for people who haven't taken the prereqs. So if you haven't, then you'll definitely need a postbacc.

Actually many people take upper level sciences as a postbac even if they have the prereqs. You are right that the "formal" postbac programs (Bryn Mawr, Gaucher etc) generally require you to start fresh without any prereq sciences. However most people who rehabilitate GPAs do "informal" or "open enrollment" type postbacs, in which they can retake things they already took, take upper level classes, and generally take more sciences for A's to try and balance out weak stats. Some schools have semi-organized programs and advising for these informal postbacs so it is not always just enrolling for courses on your own, although that too counts as "postbac" work. So you are incorrect in stating that postbacs are not applicable in OPs case if s/he has taken the prereqs. There are a variety of different formulations of "postbac" and success stories with each.

 

[Think Big]

There really isn't a better or worse. You have to try and address your shortcomings, as well as give adcoms confidence you can handle the work.

Agreed. Each situation is different and there have been a number of successful tactics that people on these forums have used to get into school.

 

[njbmd]

is getting a masters degree better than doing a postbaccalaureate if one had a really bad undergrad GPA (like a 2.5 overall gpa)

If you are doing "damage control" for a poor undergraduate GPA, a masters degree is not going to help you much. If your undergraduate GPA is 2.5, you are likely not going to be admitted to a "Special Masters" Program. My best advice is to do post-bacc work which is any undergraduate level coursework taken after you have received a bachelors degree. These grades will be averaged with your undergraduate GPA and provided you do well (no grade less than B+) will raise your undergraduate GPA.

The better you do in your postbacc work and the further you are from your previously poor undergraduate work, the better. Upward trends are good.

 

[RxnMan]

If you are doing "damage control" for a poor undergraduate GPA, a masters degree is not going to help you much. If your undergraduate GPA is 2.5, you are likely not going to be admitted to a "Special Masters" Program. My best advice is to do post-bacc work which is any undergraduate level coursework taken after you have received a bachelors degree. These grades will be averaged with your undergraduate GPA and provided you do well (no grade less than B+) will raise your undergraduate GPA.

The better you do in your postbacc work and the further you are from your previously poor undergraduate work, the better. Upward trends are good.

In the OP's case, grad work is much less productive than improving the 2.5 GPA.

 

[hoodz]

Also don't forget that retaking pre-req classes will refresh your memory for the MCAT. I've been hearing GPA and MCAT are both important and are used as cutoffs for admissions. Another thing you can do to improve your applications is to volunteer/shadow and make contacts with doctors. Good luck!

 

[st0w]

Actually many people take upper level sciences as a postbac even if they have the prereqs. You are right that the "formal" postbac programs (Bryn Mawr, Gaucher etc) generally require you to start fresh without any prereq sciences. However most people who rehabilitate GPAs do "informal" or "open enrollment" type postbacs, in which they can retake things they already took, take upper level classes, and generally take more sciences for A's to try and balance out weak stats. Some schools have semi-organized programs and advising for these informal postbacs so it is not always just enrolling for courses on your own, although that too counts as "postbac" work. So you are incorrect in stating that postbacs are not applicable in OPs case if s/he has taken the prereqs. There are a variety of different formulations of "postbac" and success stories with each.

Yes, that is a good point and something I should have mentioned initially. My response was directed strictly at formal postbacc programs that focus on only the necessary prereqs. Which is a bit ironic, since I'm taking biochem this year as a postbacc..

Also don't forget that retaking pre-req classes will refresh your memory for the MCAT. I've been hearing GPA and MCAT are both important and are used as cutoffs for admissions. Another thing you can do to improve your applications is to volunteer/shadow and make contacts with doctors. Good luck!

Just make sure not to waste any time or money retaking classes that one received a decent grade in. Taking upper-level classes in the sciences to boost that GPA and show adcoms that one is capable of the work and has the perseverence is helpful as well.

 

[Jman35]

Doing post-bac undergrad work is what you need. I'm in a similar situation and thought that I could do a masters and that would look really good...but that ug gpa will be a monkey on your shoulder for the rest of your life. Even if you have amazing stats you might get screened out by a computer and a human might never see your app. What you need to do is enroll as an undergrad post bac and basically make up your own major...consisting of hard science classes.

Not meaning to hijack, but my questions applies here so I thought I'd ask. I'm in a similar situation. My gpa is sub 3.0. But the catch with me is that for the pre-med pre reqs I did well overall (~3.5) at a very tough school. I however had no direction and changed my mind about what I wanted to major in. So I took 9 extra math classes, 7 of them upper division killer classes like differential topology, set theory, number theory, abstract algebra etc. I did pretty poorly in all of this, and the crappy thing is that this counts in bcpm gpa. Oh and I also have like 5 engineering classes on there pulling my gpa down. My road to getting my gpa to a reasonable level will be a LONG one. Not only is it low, but I have a lot of units. What would be the best course of action for me? I was thinking of enrolling in a state school and taking 2-3 years of hard science and some humanities classes...and maybe capping this off with an smp. Would adcoms care that my first gpa is from a tough school, wheras my new courses will be from a state school?

 

[charmedgrad]

If you are doing "damage control" for a poor undergraduate GPA, a masters degree is not going to help you much. If your undergraduate GPA is 2.5, you are likely not going to be admitted to a "Special Masters" Program. My best advice is to do post-bacc work which is any undergraduate level coursework taken after you have received a bachelors degree. These grades will be averaged with your undergraduate GPA and provided you do well (no grade less than B+) will raise your undergraduate GPA.

The better you do in your postbacc work and the further you are from your previously poor undergraduate work, the better. Upward trends are good.

Thanks to everyone for taking time out to help me out with this dilemma...
I got into a masters program already, so what if i just go ahead and retake some of the undergrad prereq courses i did badly in while doing my masters. would that be ok

 

[Meatwad]

Thanks to everyone for taking time out to help me out with this dilemma...
I got into a masters program already, so what if i just go ahead and retake some of the undergrad prereq courses i did badly in while doing my masters. would that be ok

If you can handle it, go for it. Seems like suicide, though. You'll most likely do mediocre at both because you can't focus enough. Pick one and stick with it: undergrad courses or a master's.

 

[waytogo]

Of course each program is different, but the masters program I am finishing has no down time. I had to teach bio labs (lesson planning and a lot of grading), sat in intro bio classes, led review sessions, held office hours, answered emails/questions/complaints, proctored, graded exams, made K-style question banks, took multiple difficult classes on the medical campus (this is a bus ride - 1 hour each time I went over), and I had an extremely demanding research schedule. On the plus side I will have multiple pubs, teaching experience, and a great bio/immuno foundation. Realize that there were weeks that I did not even get 4 hours of sleep a night and I spent holidays/nights in the lab. Also, many masters programs you have to pay for. Some people have a difficult time finding a lab because of funding problems. I was lucky and my advisor paid my bills and my stipend but this is rare especially if they know that you want to go into medicine. Even though I like teaching and research, I can't wait to be done. I can not imagine doing this just to improve my GPA. Also, at my school, the classes I took were with the postbaccs and PhD candidates. Classes were for weeding and a lot of masters students struggled because we did not have half the time to study that the other students had. Depending on your advisor and funding, you may have to be creative to get in shadowing and volunteer. I had to limit my volunteer to only every other Sat because I was required to be in the lab at least 9-5 M-F. In reality, I was usually there throughout the evenings and on most weekends in addition to normal work hours. There was one experiment with a 4 day cycle that I did for a month. Day 1 was 14 hours, day 2 was 6 hours, and days 3-4 I had to analyze my data/catch up on everything else. I did this over finals/Chrismas break.

The postbac at my school has an optional 2nd year to do a masters. People who did this were more satisfied with their program. The down side is that 1/3 flunked out, GPA goes to graduate GPA, the classes are difficult for the sake of being difficult, instructors are less helpful to postbac students, and it is VERY expensive. For a select few who wanted to go to the school for med school and who did extremely well, it did work. Most people I knew who did this program because of a low GPA did not improve much. Those who did well generally did not have a low GPA or had high GPAs in other disciplines. Even though this is a demanding program, it is possible to do/get what you need and it is more flexible because there is no funding for students. Be sure to talk with current students and think about how you function best before you make a decision.

Make sure that you have realistic expectations for the program you are starting. It is easy to idealize options. I really question if you will have time to take undergrad classes while you are in a masters program. The graduate program may not be supportive of it either. Remember that your advisor decides what you can and can not do. What ever you do, don't take on too much.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide.Congrats on your graduate acceptance.

 

[charmedgrad]

Of course each program is different, but the masters program I am finishing has no down time. I had to teach bio labs (lesson planning and a lot of grading), sat in intro bio classes, led review sessions, held office hours, answered emails/questions/complaints, proctored, graded exams, made K-style question banks, took multiple difficult classes on the medical campus (this is a bus ride - 1 hour each time I went over), and I had an extremely demanding research schedule. On the plus side I will have multiple pubs, teaching experience, and a great bio/immuno foundation. Realize that there were weeks that I did not even get 4 hours of sleep a night and I spent holidays/nights in the lab. Also, many masters programs you have to pay for. Some people have a difficult time finding a lab because of funding problems. I was lucky and my advisor paid my bills and my stipend but this is rare especially if they know that you want to go into medicine. Even though I like teaching and research, I can't wait to be done. I can not imagine doing this just to improve my GPA. Also, at my school, the classes I took were with the postbaccs and PhD candidates. Classes were for weeding and a lot of masters students struggled because we did not have half the time to study that the other students had. Depending on your advisor and funding, you may have to be creative to get in shadowing and volunteer. I had to limit my volunteer to only every other Sat because I was required to be in the lab at least 9-5 M-F. In reality, I was usually there throughout the evenings and on most weekends in addition to normal work hours. There was one experiment with a 4 day cycle that I did for a month. Day 1 was 14 hours, day 2 was 6 hours, and days 3-4 I had to analyze my data/catch up on everything else. I did this over finals/Chrismas break.

The postbac at my school has an optional 2nd year to do a masters. People who did this were more satisfied with their program. The down side is that 1/3 flunked out, GPA goes to graduate GPA, the classes are difficult for the sake of being difficult, instructors are less helpful to postbac students, and it is VERY expensive. For a select few who wanted to go to the school for med school and who did extremely well, it did work. Most people I knew who did this program because of a low GPA did not improve much. Those who did well generally did not have a low GPA or had high GPAs in other disciplines. Even though this is a demanding program, it is possible to do/get what you need and it is more flexible because there is no funding for students. Be sure to talk with current students and think about how you function best before you make a decision.

Make sure that you have realistic expectations for the program you are starting. It is easy to idealize options. I really question if you will have time to take undergrad classes while you are in a masters program. The graduate program may not be supportive of it either. Remember that your advisor decides what you can and can not do. What ever you do, don't take on too much.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide.Congrats on your graduate acceptance.

thanks waytogo for the advice, i really want to do the masters because i feel it will give me a better knowlegde of the field of research. but then will i have to do a post bacc after my masters degree before i can go ahead an apply to med school in order to be a competitive applicant? that will take at least 3-4 more years...

 

[boko0123]

i'm taking post bac pre-reqs right now, some of which are repeats of courses i did poorly in the first time around in UG (my UG GPA was 3.0, probably around 3.1 now). my question is, after i've finished all the pre-reqs (after taking a full courseload this fall, and some next spring), how much longer should i spend in school taking upper level sciences? a year full-time, or more/less?
thanks for any input!

 

[waytogo]

I know some students who did the masters and treated it like the postbac on the other campus. They ended up, by their second year, being at the top of the program. They did not teach and had no funding while they were just taking classes.

If I could do it over again, I would have taught less my first semester. Teaching is wonderful but it is time consuming. By teaching less, you don't make as much money but that class/lab time can be spent doing prep work. I reused everything from my first semester with some modifications. The prep time has to come from somewhere and it is best to keep your study and research time. Only do less teaching if you have the option (don't give up full funding.) Also, my second year I became lead lab instructor so I presented the labs to the other TAs. This relieved me from a lot of other work.

When you pick out a lab, really listen to what the students say. Look at what past students have done (classes, grades, pubs, and after graduation activities). Listen for red flags such as odd ideas about education and overly inflated student stats (think how?). Are their expectations realistic for what you want? I know someone in another lab who has to spend 10 hours a day in the lab during the week and at least 8 on Sat. and Sunday. Did I mention that at 2 years, none of the students have any useful data? Other labs have much more flexible requirements.

My classes were like the first two years toward a PhD. How was my schedule different from classes that the postbaccs take? I did not have all my hard classes at one time. I took 1 semester of the biochem, molecular, and cell bio supercourse; immunobiology; a couple of classes on cancer; stats; and a lot of jounal clubs/current topics.
Compared to the micro/immuno and biochem certificate program, I am lacking the 1st semester of biochem and I had different electives. I could have taken any of those classes if I adjusted my schedule. Some people will do a 3 year masters to get in a lot of graduate classes without sacrificing research.

Yes, by doing a masters you should have a better understanding of research. You can expect to be able to fly through journal articles, understand figures independent of text, learn how to formulate questions, learn how to answer questions, hone your presentation/teaching skills, and gain a different approach to learning. Try not to plan too far ahead on what you will have to do after a masters. See how it works for you. Hopefully it will be rewarding for you too. I have no idea what you will need to do for admission. My friends who took this approach talked with someone in admissions at the school they wanted to go to through out grad school.