Master's Programs - do they help get you in?

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chi_town1

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I'm thinking about doing a year long Master's program next year. Any thoughts? Does it help boost the application? As a post-bac with a limited science background (other than the pre-req's), I thought this might help. Thoughts?
 
A year long program if you do well, could enhance your application. They usually have a lot of credits you have to complete so be careful. And do they require you take to take any classes that you really don't want to do or will be totally bored in. You can take upper level science course without signing up for a formal program.

Keep in mind with any Master's program you have to finish it before med school. People ususally get in trouble when they only complete one year out of two and try to quit to go to med school. Most schools tell them they have to finish. I quit my Master's after only 2 months, but it was because we moved 120 miles away so I couldn't finish.

I would suggest taking upper level courses that you are interested which is more flexable than the Masters program. Most of the post-grads I went to school with only took the classes they were interested in such as genetics, micro, biochem, physiology, immunology, etc....
 
Originally posted by chi_town1
I'm thinking about doing a year long Master's program next year. Any thoughts? Does it help boost the application? As a post-bac with a limited science background (other than the pre-req's), I thought this might help. Thoughts?
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You may want to browse the post-bacc forum for more threads on this subject.. but as a successful reapplicant who will finish a master's program this semester, I believe my performance in this program (coupled with retaking the mcat) led to my acceptances this year.

In deciding between post-bacc and formal master's program, one thing you should consider is how competitive your gpa is.. I tend to think if you're below a 3.0, you might want to do a post-bacc because those grades will be applied to your undergrad gpa in amcas. conversely, your grades from a master's program will be applied separately to a graduate gpa. Some schools (it depends on the school) may only look at your undergrad gpa if they do a preliminary screening. My gpa was a 3.3, and I was told by several admissions folks that the masters route was best for me. I also chose masters over post-bacc because having a bona fide degree (instead of a certificate) would be helpful in case I didn't get in and had to apply for a job.

Regardless of what you choose, it's important to do really well, as adcoms place a high value on candidates showing improvement and determination..

abbeacon
 
While I don't think having a Master's will get you in, I do think it has a (+) impact on your overall application. With a masters you are hopefully bringing more to the table than a traditional applicant. Hopefully your grad grades are stellar (A's and B+'s), and you have some work/real life experiences.

You don't have to do a Master's program, you can also join the Peace Corp or something like that.
 
I applied to med school twice and did not get any interviews. I reapplied after one year of graduate school, getting 8 interviews offers and accepted at multiple schools. So I think any Masters work will help if you get good grades in the courses. I think the graduate school courses I took were harder than those in med school. :clap:
 
Thats my opinion I would rather spend those years in the best oput of usa school,try sackler in Israel where I have many friends who are non jewsih who continue to get great residencies.

Check out the school,their admissions office ins in NYC,and the curriculum is all in english.

http://med.tau.ac.il/ny/the_school.htm
 
speaking as someone who got a master's and sees the difference, hell yes a master's makes a difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's the difference between one interview and ten.....really, the only difference.....
 
when you can be haklf way finished wwith medical school at sackler or another good foreign medical school such as in poland?

i would rather have those 2 years to enjoy then add to a masters degree with no guarantee I will get in to a us school and then have to go abroad anyway
 
but the great thing about my master's is that if i choose, at some point, to do somethingother than medicine once i become a doctor, i have that choice....a master's in public health will open doors for you down the line should you wish to pursue some other aspect of medicine....check out your local county public health department, and all of the jobs they have open for a doctor with a public health masters....
 
I know too many people who did a Masters in Public Health and didn't get in. And from one adcom I spoke with, he didn't have much respect for the MPH.

If you do a Masters, do what they call a "Special Masters" which is a non thesis related class and exam based Masters program. I wouldn't encourage you to do a Masters program that is heavily research oriented especially since research classes are known by adcoms to be instant A's.
 
Originally posted by Dr.Wolkower
when you can be haklf way finished wwith medical school at sackler or another good foreign medical school such as in poland?

i would rather have those 2 years to enjoy then add to a masters degree with no guarantee I will get in to a us school and then have to go abroad anyway
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That's true but it's not easy going to a foreign medical school. I did a lot of research into it and that is a rough road. It's extremely incovenient. You have to set up all of your rotations with very little assistance from your school. In addition, you won't have the choice of completing your rotations at one teaching hospital like in the U.S. Foreign students have to travel to different states to complete rotations. And most of your rotations will in NY so I hope you love the East Coast.

Studying overseas is different too. The teaching is atrocious. Unlike U.S. schools, you won't be handed nice and neat little lecture packets that you merely have to memorize to score well on exams. You will have to rummage through books and teach yourself the basic sciences because your instructors have thick accents or they are rejects from the U.S. who couldn't get a job teaching in the U.S.. Then there are basic comforts that you take for granted in the U.S. Want to go to Wal-Mart..nope sorry. Need proper medical care or a dentist...whoops that's a challenge. Want to go to a big grocery store to buy food....try again. Want to eat fast food....nope. Want to go home over the weekend...sorry too expensive.

And the worst reason of all for attending a foreign school; your options in acquiring certain residencies will be limited. Even if you were born and raised in the U.S., you are still considered an IMG or an FMG because your graduated from a school outside the U.S. And IMG's are given less priority than even osteopathic students. Most fields outside primary care and internal medicine are off limits if you are an IMG. Sure you will hear about the guy who got neurosurgery or orthopedic surgery. But what they don't tell you is that he had over a 250 on the USMLE and was pretty darn lucky with everything else.

Unless, your GPA is a 2.5 and you don't want to be a D.O., then do the foreign school route. And if you did that route, I would go to either St. George, Ross or AUC in the Carribean. Those are better options than the ones in Europe. Unlike their European and Asian counterparts, the Carribeans schools are almost entirely filled with students from the U.S.. So those schools are essentially American schools overseas. Others try to claim that but only St. George, Ross and AUC live up to that.
 
well, actually the MPH i did wasn't a research related masters....a lot of public health masters will allow you a masters degree for professionals, which means that it's not academic, it's meant to be used in the real world....and whoever the adcom is who doesn't have any respect for the public health degree is jsut showing how ignorant he/she truly is....doctors dont know everything, although some think they do.....
 
I had below a 3.0 GPA in undergrad. However, I am taking graduate level classes (mostly all upper level sciences). My current GPA is 3.85. Basically, it seems no matter how high my graduate GPA I may get looked over in the preliminary screening. Does anyone have advice? Should I take a chance and go with just the grad gpa or try doind post-bacc (which may be a waste of time). I appreciate any replies.
 
My undergrad GPA is less than a 3.0. I was told by a DA to do a masters. I made a 3.9 in my masters. Yes I got interviews for med school this year. However, if I were to do it all over again I would have gone with a post bacc. In my opinion, in my situation doing the masters was a waste of time. I would have had much better luck with just raising my undergrad GPA. I feel there were other factors that contributed to my interview than my grad school GPA.
 
well, honestly i think that doing a masters is worth it, because it'll give you experiences in something other than just a rehashing of the same classes you took as an undergrad...it broadens your field of study, gives you opportunities that only grad students will get, and overall, to me, proves that if you can handle graduate work, and your recent grad work is good, then you can handle med school......but that's just my opinion....
 
Thanks camstah for your feedback. Megalofyia did you volunteer or have or have extended work experience that made your application stand out for the adcoms (what did they tell). In addition, were you instantly screened out because your undergrad GPA was less than 3.0.
 
Originally posted by scoobymd
Thanks camstah for your feedback. Megalofyia did you volunteer or have or have extended work experience that made your application stand out for the adcoms (what did they tell). In addition, were you instantly screened out because your undergrad GPA was less than 3.0.
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Yes, I have 14 years experience working with children with severe developmental disabilities and I have done quite a bit of medical related volunteer work in other countries. I have some other experiencies but they are more minor. I also have a brother with disabilities that have affected me in that I have helped my parents quite a bit with his care.
I am sure that my gpa was a cut off for some schools but I did quite a bit of research into the schools I did apply to.
 
Originally posted by camstah
well, honestly i think that doing a masters is worth it, because it'll give you experiences in something other than just a rehashing of the same classes you took as an undergrad...it broadens your field of study, gives you opportunities that only grad students will get, and overall, to me, proves that if you can handle graduate work, and your recent grad work is good, then you can handle med school......but that's just my opinion....
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Many post-bacs are not rehashes of undergrad. Mine certainly wasn't. It included classes that you couldn't take at most undergrad schools since mine was affiliated with a medical school.

I think the only value of a Masters is it could provide you with job opportunities that you wouldn't receive with a post-bac should you not get accepted to medical school or decide not to attend. I personally don't have a problem with an MPH. However, the reality is that the MPH is increasingly given less weight by adcoms whether they are ignorant or not. That is why most Special Masters and post-bac programs were created in the first place. These programs were developed because they are less ambiguous than the MPH, and designed to admit someone to medical school. In the past, the only option a student had was to enroll in an MPH. Now students can enter programs that are more directly affiliated with medical schools.
 
There is a great one year program in Indianapolis at IUPUI. Go to www.biology.iupui.edu. You do 30 cr hrs. Lots of biochem, physio, molecular bio, biotech. Great one year program. Indy is a pretty cool place.

Good luck
 
Originally posted by mcataz
Many post-bacs are not rehashes of undergrad. Mine certainly wasn't. It included classes that you couldn't take at most undergrad schools since mine was affiliated with a medical school.

I think the only value of a Masters is it could provide you with job opportunities that you wouldn't receive with a post-bac should you not get accepted to medical school or decide not to attend. I personally don't have a problem with an MPH. However, the reality is that the MPH is increasingly given less weight by adcoms whether they are ignorant or not. That is why most Special Masters and post-bac programs were created in the first place. These programs were developed because they are less ambiguous than the MPH, and designed to admit someone to medical school. In the past, the only option a student had was to enroll in an MPH. Now students can enter programs that are more directly affiliated with medical schools.
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Hi,

Sorry if this is a repeat question. But what are"special Masters" programs.
I was considering an MPH (it looks like I'm not getting in this year) but I don't like the 2 year comittment or the cost.

I have a 27Q MCAT, 3.4 science, 3.6 overall.
I feel like my MCAT is the biggest problem area...

So...should I do an MPH, work for a year and retake the Aug MCAT, or look into post-bacc programs?!?
Help!

Thanks
 
Hey Zainz,

Well the only true "Special Master's Program" is the Georgetown Special Master's Program. It is a 1 year M.S. in Physiology and Biophysics with the purpose of helping the students obtain admissions into medical school. You take classes with Georgetown medical students. Here's the link:

http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/physiology/physios/

Some other schools have similar programs. Finch has 2 M.S. programs and I believe Drexel has the IMS (no idea what it stands for). BTW, Dartmouth has a 1 year M.P.H. which appears to be leniant on admissions.
 
ZainZ
If i was you, I would just work and retake the MCAT. Your GPA is solid. the only problem is tyour mcat score. i don't see why you would spend 24000 for a masters, when you could solve your problem just by taking the mact over in august. spend like 2000 on a mcat course and beef up your ec, and also apply DO in addition to MD.
 
you are better of being a physicians assistane and for my kids i will advice them to be pas-md school is to long the way it is-if you have been rejected pa school is better then a masters-you make close to a mds salary in 2 years wiythout the residency torture-thing about other medical fields if you have been rejected-good luck
 
Originally posted by Dr.Wolkower
you are better of being a physicians assistane and for my kids i will advice them to be pas-md school is to long the way it is-if you have been rejected pa school is better then a masters-you make close to a mds salary in 2 years wiythout the residency torture-thing about other medical fields if you have been rejected-good luck
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Haha, I think your keyboard is messed up. Specifically your shift key and the period key. :laugh:
 
I am also considering the MPH route but I feel my application is somewhat untested. I applied to Dartmouth MD/PhD last minute last year and was recently rejected. One ADCOM brought up the possibility of MPH because of my low GPA. I am determined to go MD 2005, but am at a loss to find others who got in with similar scores. I feel like I am at huge risk of my GPA spoiling my app. Welcome your thoughts.:

3.4 Science (Chem Major)
3.2 Overall
33R 2003 August MCAT

Masters in Engineering
15 Engineering publications
4 years in Semiconductor Industry
1 Yr recent Clinical Volunteer Exp.
NCAA Runner, Team Captain (way back when)
Some other minor stuff
 
Originally posted by mcataz
I know too many people who did a Masters in Public Health and didn't get in. And from one adcom I spoke with, he didn't have much respect for the MPH.

If you do a Masters, do what they call a "Special Masters" which is a non thesis related class and exam based Masters program. I wouldn't encourage you to do a Masters program that is heavily research oriented especially since research classes are known by adcoms to be instant A's.
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Out of curiosity from what viewpoint are you speaking? That is, are you a medical student, applicant, MD or Adcom? I ask because I disagree so strongly with what you are saying here. I did get my MPH before medical school. My undergrad GPA was a 2.8 (I worked full-time) and I was strongly advised to go the MPH route for one simple reason - most of the MPH faculty were also Medical School faculty. That meant my letters of rec would be from faculty members at the Medical School. Not only that but an MPH would give me an added qualification after med school. All of the residents in the Cook County (IL) Hospital's Occ. Med. residency were in my MPH program (I chose an emphasis in environmental and occupational medicine - required coursework for them). So I made lots of professional contacts. I also did research, which was well supported by faculty, and there were no "easy As". I did well, and applied to medical school after my first year...
...to universal rejections. +pity+
Reapplying after graduation, I got in easily. :hardy:

Keep in mind, I got a job with my degree! This is important because many schools (see below) do not "add-in" your Master's work until it is completed. That means, you will be in the "real world" for at least 1 yr. IMHO, it is better to obtain a degree wih real world validity (such as an MPH or MPA/MPP) as opposed to one purely in the sciences. That way, should you need to find a career alternative, you haven't wasted your time.

During medical school, I worked with our admissions committee and had the chance to find out a bit about my own admission. At my institution all Master's Degree programs are given exactly the same weight, and the "extra points" are only awarded AFTER graduation from the program. Unfortunately this maens if you apply in June after your graduation, you need something to do over the next year. The only exceptions to the "extra points" are Master's programs designed specifically for premed. Those are considered the same as post-bacc programs and awarded far less of a bump and still require completion before consideration.

I do not know what adcoms you spoke with, but my experience runs absolutely counter to your advice. BTW - I cast a fairly wide net with my applications, including being granted interviews at UCLA, Uva, GW, and UIC. All saw the MPH as a "positive factor". I had also applied, and was accepted, to the JHU PhD program in Health Policy as a "back-up", they also liked the MPH!

The only caveat to that is that I did seek, and found, a position in Public Health. I was able to "talk up" my job during interviews, separating myself from those who appeared to get the degree only as a means to medical school acceptance. IMHO, that is the difference.

If you want my advice, find a Masters program that interests you and is used in the "real world" (outside of medicine). Do well there and your chances for admission will soar.

Just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005)

- H
 
This is an international student who completed Bachelor's degree in Sydney University, Australia and studying an honors program at the same university.

This year, I applied to the MD/PhD programs in the US and my application was unsuccessful, except I've got interview invitation from Finch and waitlisted for Penn State.

However I have realised that most medical schools require international students to accompany at least a year of study at an accredited college in the US/Canada. That would be one of the reasons that my application was unsuccessful.

Therefore it is my intention to study masters in the US before re-applying to the MD/PhD program. What would be 'the best' masters program in the area of biology (including neuroscience, cellular/molecular etc...) in which I can have an opportunity to make some publications and thesis?

My stats for this year is:

GPA: 3.7 (overall)
MCAT: 30P
Publications: 2

Indeed, I know that I still need to increase my score in MCAT as well.

I would like to try out for the top MD/PhD programs in the US and even if I may be able to get into Finch or Penn State, I will re-apply for the top programs.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Originally posted by FoughtFyr
IMHO, it is better to obtain a degree wih real world validity (such as an MPH or MPA/MPP) as opposed to one purely in the sciences. - H
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As person with an MS in Chemistry that was accepted a few years ago, I'm just wondering what a "real world" Master's degreee is.

I was advised against the MPH after I was accepted to what was then the top MPH programin the US by schools like UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, VCU, and Howard because while it may be a "real world" degree to you, it's a means to get into medical school for many students that doesn't provide the "hard core" science requirements like a "hard core" MS degree.

Finally I could be wrong about this, but among MS degree holders in hard core science areas like physiology that I've observed on SDN, the acceptance rate seems to be close to 100%.
 
Originally posted by pathdr2b
As person with an MS in Chemistry that was accepted a few years ago, I'm just wondering what a "real world" Master's degreee is.

I was advised against the MPH after I was accepted to what was then the top MPH programin the US by schools like UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, VCU, and Howard because while it may be a "real world" degree to you, it's a means to get into medical school for many students that doesn't provide the "hard core" science requirements like a "hard core" MS degree.

Finally I could be wrong about this, but among MS degree holders in hard core science areas like physiology that I've observed on SDN, the acceptance rate seems to be close to 100%.
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You have "seconded" my point, at least a bit. There are, in my geographic area, at least two medical schools that offer 1 year, non-thesis Master's degrees in "medical sciences". These are post-bac programs thinly disguised so that students can obtain federal student aid.

If you looked at the last line of my post it read " If you want my advice, find a Masters program that interests you and is used in the "real world" (outside of medicine). Do well there and your chances for admission will soar." I suppose it would have been more correct to advise finding a Master's program that interests you and is used outside of medical school admissions.

As for the "hard sciences" vs. "public health", I can't answer you beyond my own experience. I have seen, both from my MPH classmates, and while on an adcom, many MPHs get admitted to medical school. I have a hard time believing that anyone would "advise against it". If they did, well, I'm glad you found the success you were looking for. With my MPH, I know I did too. But if you hadn't, would you happy working as a Master's level chemist? How is the job market for "hard science" MS grads? It was great in Public Health. I easily found a job, and had I not been accepted to medical school, I would still be happily employed there.

I do not mean to rain on anyone's parade. As a student with an undergrad GPA below a 3.0 (2.8 both overall and science), I am the poster child for "just keep trying". But at a certain point, it is logical to align your efforts at medical school entrance with those of building a "non-medical" career, if you can do so without hurting your application.

In any event, I think we actually agree in principle. I apologize for any communications misunderstanding. 🙁

- H
 
Originally posted by FoughtFyr
You have "seconded" my point, at least a bit. There are, in my geographic area, at least two medical schools that offer 1 year, non-thesis Master's degrees in "medical sciences". These are post-bac programs thinly disguised so that students can obtain federal student aid.- H
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Over the years, I've actually completed 15 credtis toward an MPH (Epidemiology). Go figure...............😎
 
A question to all of you who have finished the MS and reaped the benefits in regards to acceptances:

What would you recommend for my decision between 1 yr master's programs at Universities with med schools (Drexel, VCU, PCOM) versus 1 yr master's programs at less renowned places (the one I am interested in is offered at Ball State).

Will the "quality" of program factor in to the situation when using this degree to supplement my application, or does the fact that I will have completed grad level science coursework (non thesis in all options) overcome the school reputation?

My main concern is going from undergrad at a very good school to grad at an okay/good school.

Any thoughts or advice?
Or, does are there any other schools I am leaving out in this decision?
 
Originally posted by nweb
A question to all of you who have finished the MS and reaped the benefits in regards to acceptances:

What would you recommend for my decision between 1 yr master's programs at Universities with med schools (Drexel, VCU, PCOM) versus 1 yr master's programs at less renowned places (the one I am interested in is offered at Ball State).

Will the "quality" of program factor in to the situation when using this degree to supplement my application, or does the fact that I will have completed grad level science coursework (non thesis in all options) overcome the school reputation?

My main concern is going from undergrad at a very good school to grad at an okay/good school.

Any thoughts or advice?
Or, does are there any other schools I am leaving out in this decision?
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This is my experience, so take it for what it's worth:

I went to a decent public school for undergrad, then to a top notch school for my masters degree and am in. I know the name played a key role.

Like I said, that's what happened to me, and I am in no way saying you must go to a top tier school to get in.
 
Originally posted by nweb
A question to all of you who have finished the MS and reaped the benefits in regards to acceptances:

What would you recommend for my decision between 1 yr master's programs at Universities with med schools (Drexel, VCU, PCOM) versus 1 yr master's programs at less renowned places (the one I am interested in is offered at Ball State).

Will the "quality" of program factor in to the situation when using this degree to supplement my application, or does the fact that I will have completed grad level science coursework (non thesis in all options) overcome the school reputation?

My main concern is going from undergrad at a very good school to grad at an okay/good school.

Any thoughts or advice?
Or, does are there any other schools I am leaving out in this decision?
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I, too, attended a decent undergrad (3.1) and then a decent (by no means top notch) grad school and got in with the 1st semester's grades.

In my opinon, how you perform in the school is more important than the name of the school. I would also try and find a physician in the area that would allow you to observe on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, whom could then write you a strong letter of recommendation. As I said before, this is only my opinion.
 
The powerful thing about the MPH is that it means you as an applicant will have a unique vantage point on health care. You will be much more unique than say, someone with another hardcore science masters.

I had a 3.1 GPA and I got 18 interviews, some at very good schools. Invariably the schools noted my MPH degree and public health experience. If an adcom member doesnt think an MPH makes you a better applicant, I dont know what kind of health care they are teaching at the medical school. A solid grasp of the social, ecological and economical basis of health and medicine can only make you a better student of medicine.
 
Originally posted by exmike
The powerful thing about the MPH is that it means you as an applicant will have a unique vantage point on health care. You will be much more unique than say, someone with another hardcore science masters.

I had a 3.1 GPA and I got 18 interviews, some at very good schools. Invariably the schools noted my MPH degree and public health experience. If an adcom member doesnt think an MPH makes you a better applicant, I dont know what kind of health care they are teaching at the medical school. A solid grasp of the social, ecological and economical basis of health and medicine can only make you a better student of medicine.
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well said exmike!!!!
 
What would you recommend for my decision between 1 yr master's programs at Universities with med schools (Drexel, VCU, PCOM) versus 1 yr master's programs at less renowned places (the one I am interested in is offered at Ball State).
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I went to Colorado State University for my Masters (http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/planB.htm). It is a program that may or may not be known nationally (it has a Top 5 Vet School and is very research intensive but no medical school). I found that it helped with both interviews and gaining acceptances. I think you get out of a Masters program whatever you put into it and the Adcomms recognize this.
 
Originally posted by hakksar
I went to Colorado State University for my Masters (http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/planB.htm). It is a program that may or may not be known nationally (it has a Top 5 Vet School and is very research intensive but no medical school). I found that it helped with both interviews and gaining acceptances. I think you get out of a Masters program whatever you put into it and the Adcomms recognize this.
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I was so close to attending. In fact that's where I was telling everyone I knew where I was headed, but at the very last minute I got word from another school wanting me. Congrats!
 
Originally posted by mcataz
I too am very curious about where you applied because the adcoms I have spoken with hail from very good programs including Harvard which I didn't want to name drop but since you did I thought I should follow in suit. The other programs that i spoke with included, USC, Tufts, Loyola medical school and UCSF.

It's not necessarily that MPH degrees hurty your chances as an applicant. I don't think that at all. I think if anything, it will improve your chances as an applicant. However, today's applicant has many more options than the MPH degree. And I do think there are better options than the MPH if you want to get into medical school. There are many post-bac programs that have an agreement with a particular medical school. If a certain GPA is met, either acceptance or an interview is guranteed. MPH programs rarely if ever offer such an agreeement.

The advice I was given was rather simple. You want to be the most competitive applicant you can be. MPH's programs, while including many challenging classes, also include many research classes that are for all intensive purposes "easy A's." These classes include research that you do on your own time. The adcoms know this. That is why they encouraged me and others to pursue either a post-bac or a non-thesis Masters that focuses purely on classroom work in which your grades are determined by exams and not subjective research projects etc. Maybe you actually had to earn A's in your research classes but your situation is rare. Most MPH students I know will easily admit that their program included fluff classes.

Adcoms are aware that students enroll in MPH programs to get into medical school. After all, do you really think an adcom is going to be so naive as to think that someone with a 2.8 undergrad GPA had a sincere desire to learn about public health and that their new education in public health will make them an asset as a student? The adcoms could care less about your public health experience. Rather, they want to see that you can withstand an MS-1,2 curriculum. And the best predicator of this success is a student who has demonstrated the ability to juggle a large volume of challenging classes that are based on exams. Adcoms want to see students placed into a program that most represents medical school. Doing research projects at your own leisure in an MPH program isn't representative of the intensity of medical school curriculum. However, many post-bac programs and special masters programs do mimic that. And that why is their rate of placement is higher. Many post-bac programs and Special Masters programs guarantee spots in an MS-1 class while MPH programs don't do that.

And my assertion is backed up by the evidence of the recent creation of so many post-bac programs in the last 10 years. Most MPH programs don't guarantee you a spot in an MS-1 class if you meet a certain GPA like many post-bac and Special Masters programs do. The reason for their creation was that many students were entering MPH programs. Their GPA tended to be inflated due to the soft classes they had in them. And many of these students didn't get into medical school often electing to go to the Carribean. A post-bac program was created to divert students who were not genuinely interested in pursuing a career in public health. And these programs had a twist that many MPH programs couldn't offer; a spot in an MS-1 clas if a certain GPA was met. Georgetown's post-bac is a fine example of this.

Masters faculty are often the same at nearly 99% of programs. MPH programs aren't going to selecitvely pick medical school professors to teach their program while preventing them from teaching other masters programs at your school. That just doesn't make a lot of sense. Because many MPH and hardcore Masters programs include the same classes for one thing. And the other thing, many basic science faculty at a schooly aren't limited to medical school courses anyway. That's a given. With the exception of possibly your pathology instructor, the same professor who teaches physiology at the medical school also teaches it at the Masters level.

Finally, go to the Carribean medical school forum on SDN. Ask those students if MPH degrees got them into medical school. There are several students who reapplied with an MPH with no acceptance.

Regarding your job prospects as an MPH, I don't know of anyone with a Masters degree that didn't get job opportunities because they lacked a PH on the end of their Masters degree. Besides what is a "real life" job? Sorry, but I don't want to work for the water treatment facility in my city. You don't need a Masters in Public Health to find job opportunities in health care. I know several people with simple bachelors in sciences that ended doing research with NIH, CDC or working as drug reps for various pharmaceutical companies.
Click to expand...

CLIFFS NOTES PLEASE!!!
 
MCATZ -

Well you deleted your post long before I had a chance to respond. BUT, one simple question remains - if an MPH is so disregarded by medical schools, why are so many of them adding the option of MD/MPH programs?

BTW - did an adcom believe that an applicant with a 2.8 had a newly found desire to learn public health? Yep, they did. Why? Because I was able to explain that I wanted to work in health care. I explained that I knew my 2.8 would be difficult to overcome, so I might need to "end up" working in public health instead of medicine. Honesty tends to work IMHO. And I worked for FEMA (USFA) as a major incidents investigator. I was "on the ground" at little things like Columbine, and Worchester, MA. The closest I've come to a water/sewer department is reading your posts.

- H
 
MCATAZ -

BTW - I am an MD student about to graduate. I got my #1 pick in the match into EM (a fairly competitive specialty). And I have served on an adcom. So let's see, you've made some phone calls, while I've gotten into a medical school, been successful there, and helped decide who would follow. Yep, I'd rather take advice from you. I defer to your vast knowledge and expertise.

- H
 
Originally posted by XCanadianRagwee
if you want to read the long arse post I have it quoted in it's entirity. No I haven't read it. somone needs to do a cliffs notes on it.
Click to expand...

MS > MPH
 
Originally posted by XCanadianRagwee
I'm in because of my masters. Why else would I be rejected two years in a row without changing my application and now I have a master's degree?
Click to expand...

Hey XCR -

Where are you headed?

- H
 
I agree with most of the post's. I believe that a MPH or MS or whatever post-graduate education you have after undergraduate schooling will benefit you, as long as you excel.

Physicians are constantly challenged to use their analytical and intellectual skills to treat patients. I can't imagine how additional education, experiences that build upon these blocks of foundation, could be detrimental to your potential of being a good physican, and thus a competitive and successful applicant.

Really, ask yourself this question. Would you prefer to take a year off to do some volunteer and clinical stuff and study for the MCAT, or would you prefer to do all of this and obtain a degree. True, you will be in more debt, but a few additional G's is like spitting in the ocean, it won't make a huge difference.

Whoever says that MS or MPH degrees are "worthless" are either stating that either because they are trying to find reasons to convince themselves there are alternatives to matriculating or are just totally blind to the big picture, and that is striving to become a well-rounded, competent, encompassing physician.

Let me end by saying this, make yourself unique. MS, MPH, Nobel Prize (j/k) .... Whatever it takes to seperate yourself from the other 40,000 applicants, just do it! 🙂
 
There's nothing wrong with attending foreign medical schools.....sure there are not as many comforts as you will find here in the united states(......... there's more to life thatn wanting to go to walmart) but a lot of the professors are well trained and most of them have attended medical sch or graduate sch in the us or uk.....
and you're right you are not spoon fed like most schools do here
I believe the only reason why foreign schools are not a good idea is because you cant compete for any competitive residencies.
 
Originally posted by blkprl
......... there's more to life thatn wanting to go to walmart
Click to expand...

What's Walmart? Is that where they sell walls?
 
Originally posted by Reckoning
I am also considering the MPH route but I feel my application is somewhat untested. I applied to Dartmouth MD/PhD last minute last year and was recently rejected. One ADCOM brought up the possibility of MPH because of my low GPA. I am determined to go MD 2005, but am at a loss to find others who got in with similar scores. I feel like I am at huge risk of my GPA spoiling my app. Welcome your thoughts.:

3.4 Science (Chem Major)
3.2 Overall
33R 2003 August MCAT

Masters in Engineering
15 Engineering publications
4 years in Semiconductor Industry
1 Yr recent Clinical Volunteer Exp.
NCAA Runner, Team Captain (way back when)
Some other minor stuff
Click to expand...


maybe volunteering abroad might help. you numbers look solid you just need to stand out a little bit more...
but then who am i to comment I only interviewed at 2 out of the foru i applied to
 
MCATAZ made some interesting points in her/his last post but I think many of you were felt the need to defend your choice to get the MPH. It's simply a matter of statistics. Which degree, the MPH or MS will BEST help an applicant get into medical school. As I stated before, the acceptance rate for MS degree holders on SDN appears to be around 100%.

I too am very curious about where you applied because the adcoms I have spoken with hail from very good programs including Harvard which I didn't want to name drop but since you did I thought I should follow in suit.

The admissions office at Harvard, Hopkins, UPenn, and Duke told me the EXACT SAME THING. Get the MS not the MPH, so I guess that makes 2 of us. And the funny thing is that most of these schools have very strong MD/MPH programs.

You don't need a Masters in Public Health to find job opportunities in health care.

I won a fellwoship in cancer epidemiology a few years back at the NCI with the MS in Chemistry( and a few courses in Epidemiology). Because I had the MS and not the MPH, I was awarded an additional 2K over the MPH folks.

Finally I think if anyone is still interested in pursuing an MPH I would certainily do it ONLY in Epidemiology and at a top school like Yale, Harvard, or UNC-Chapel Hill.
 
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