Master's Programs in Clinical Psych???

[Psych O]

Hi. Any advice that you have to offer on the following would be most welcome:

I would like to eventually get my doctorate in clinical psych, but because I do not have an academic background in the social sciences, will complete a master's program first as a hopeful bridge to a PhD. I am applying to schools this fall, and have a had a very hard time finding MA programs in general psych, nevermind clinical psych, which are practically nonexistent. I have considered counseling and social work programs, but from what I have read, the focus of these seems more limited in scope than a psych curriculum. However, I am still open to these options as they would provide the opportunity for clinical training and the option of practicing after my master's should I decide not to get a PhD.

I currently live in the northeastern past of the US, but I am willing to move pretty much anywhere, as my main concern is the quality of the program as opposed to location. That being said, I would love to find MA programs on the west coast of the US or Canada, but have not had any luck so far.

In sum, I am looking for a master's program that would allow me to: 1) complete all prerequisites for entrance into a clinical psych doctoral program; 2) gain research experience; and 3) gain clinical experience.

Any thoughts, feedback, advice, or recommendations would be so much appreciated! Many thanks in advance!

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[Therapist4Chnge]

I know this has been discussed before, so I know there are answers out there...I just don't know them. I do know at least one forum member chose the Wake Forest MA/MS program, which is a research focused degree. I've heard very good things about the program, and it is meant as a stepping stone. I think WF should give me kickbacks for as much as I recommend their program.

It is important that if you are looking to use a MA/MS as a stepping stone, it should be RESEARCH based. Anything with a terminal degree meant for licensure isn't going to help you nearly as much, because terminal degrees are designed to prepare you for practice, and are not training to help the person gain more education afterwards.

I'm thinking the 'clinical experience' piece can be met while engaged in a program. Most programs will have opportunities available, so make sure to ask about them when inquiring to programs.

-t

 

[wdd]

These aren't on the West Coast, but here you go:

Villanova's program seems like what T4C is describing. It's research-based, requires completion of an empirical thesis, and you might have the option of working as an RA in one of several labs. In fact, it seemed to me (compared to some of the other MA/MS program's I've encountered) like a mini-PhD program. It's harder than I thought to get into, though. And without a background in psychology, you might have to take a few undergrad courses before applying. You won't have any chance for clinical experience (i.e., practica), but you'll get a lot of research experience, and you might get funded. It's designed as a stepping stone.

DePaul in Chicago has a general MS program as well, but the requirements are similar to that at Villanova, and you'll have to pay for it (no shot at a TA or RA). But Chicago's a great place to live, so ... there's that.

For something easier to get into, but really (really!) expensive, NYU has a general MA program. The requirements are a little more student-directed (you have a chance to take more electives than other programs I've seen), and the GRE means are lower, too. One piece of advice I received from NYU: Take just enough classes to make yourself a viable PhD candidate--no need to go the whole route of getting an MA. Still, did I mention it's expensive? And that there's no financial aid?

I'm in a similar boat as you, and I'm considering just taking more undergrad classes, instead of going with a full-blown MA/MS, as long as I can find some sort of volunteer or paid clinical experience.

 

[Psych O]

Thank you both for your advice! The bit about focusing on research as opposed to gaining clinical experience experience at this stage is interesting. In considering social work and counseling programs, I've wondered whether these would be rigorous enough in terms of research and covering the necessary prerequisites to qualify me for entrance into a doctoral program. In other words, in applying to PhD programs, would I be at a disadvantage if I had a social work or counseling MA as opposed to a psych MA?

wdd, what is your sense in terms of the number of classes that it would take to make a viable PhD candidate? The fact that the MA is a stepping stone to a PhD makes the pricetag extremely hard to swallow, I agree. But with very few psych courses under my belt and eager to re-enter academia and get my career on track (I have been out of school for awhile), I feel that I am between a rock and a hard place. I imagine that it would take me years to cobble together all the prerequisites I'd need to get accepted to a good PhD program. Any thoughts?

 

[wdd]

wdd, what is your sense in terms of the number of classes that it would take to make a viable PhD candidate? The fact that the MA is a stepping stone to a PhD makes the pricetag extremely hard to swallow, I agree. But with very few psych courses under my belt and eager to re-enter academia and get my career on track (I have been out of school for awhile), I feel that I am between a rock and a hard place. I imagine that it would take me years to cobble together all the prerequisites I'd need to get accepted to a good PhD program. Any thoughts?

From all I've seen, most programs want to see, at the very least, 18 credits, inclusive of statistics and research design. Others want to see the equivalent of a major in psych (so ... 24 credits? 32? I've been out for a while).

Check out this thread for some talk about Master's vs. School of Continuing Studies programs. Funny, I started this thread just before I saw yours. I've been out of school for five years, so I know what you're talking about. I'm eager, too.

Let's talk about eagerness/time for a moment. By my math, I can take courses at an SCS starting in January to fill in the gaps. I can work as an RA, too, for the experience I need to be considered. Then, with some gaps filled and some experience, I can apply to a program in fall of 08, for admission in fall of 09. OR, I can apply for a Master's program now, take some classes at an SCS to fill in the gaps starting in January, start the Master's in fall of 08, apply to PhD programs in fall of 09, finish the Master's in spring of 2010, and start the PhD program in fall of 2010.

One of these methods buys you a year of time and costs less, the other takes longer, costs more, and you'll have to repeat most, if not all, of your classes when you start your PhD program (please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong--but I'm hearing and reading that most MA credits and your thesis will not transfer to the PhD program).

 

[Psych O]

Thanks for the advice. It's good to hear that others are struggling with similar decisions. From what you wrote in the other thread, it sounds like you are a good candidate for pursuing continuing ed as opposed to trying to obtain your MA. I'm in a somewhat different position as I haven't taken nearly the same number of psych classes and so forth. I will keep plugging along in my search for master's programs, but you've certainly given me food for thought.

 

[wdd]

Thanks for the advice. It's good to hear that others are struggling with similar decisions. From what you wrote in the other thread, it sounds like you are a good candidate for pursuing continuing ed as opposed to trying to obtain your MA. I'm in a somewhat different position as I haven't taken nearly the same number of psych classes and so forth. I will keep plugging along in my search for master's programs, but you've certainly given me food for thought.

Good luck!

 

[blindblonde]

I know this has been discussed before, so I know there are answers out there...I just don't know them. I do know at least one forum member chose the Wake Forest MA/MS program, which is a research focused degree. I've heard very good things about the program, and it is meant as a stepping stone. I think WF should give me kickbacks for as much as I recommend their program.

It is important that if you are looking to use a MA/MS as a stepping stone, it should be RESEARCH based. Anything with a terminal degree meant for licensure isn't going to help you nearly as much, because terminal degrees are designed to prepare you for practice, and are not training to help the person gain more education afterwards.

I'm thinking the 'clinical experience' piece can be met while engaged in a program. Most programs will have opportunities available, so make sure to ask about them when inquiring to programs.

-t

Well, somehow this thread slipped by me. T4C, thanks for promoting Wake before I did.

Hey Psych O, I was in a similar position last year. I wanted to apply to a master's backup but had a hard time finding information. Based on my advisor's suggestion, I applied to Wake Forest (a general psych, research-focused M.A.). Things didn't work out in my applications to Ph.D. programs, but I am happy here at Wake. You will definitely get research experience: a first-year project and your master's thesis, accompanied by a full year of stats courses. Clinical training is not as strong, but you can find it in the community (likely during the summer) if desired. But quite a few people go on to clinical programs from Wake, with fairly good success.

/WFU promotion

I have heard that William and Mary is also competitive as well for a general M.A., but I don't know any out on the west coast. Sorry.

I will add one more general note. This may not be true for all schools, but some general feedback from Ph.D. schools I interviewed at last year was that having a clinical/counseling M.A. can sometimes hinder you in the process (not entirely--hear me out). Yes, you have the coursework and show that you are a capable applicant (which will definitely help you in getting in); however, sometimes schools will not accept your clinical training, preferring that you are trained in the way the school is taught. Even though you have clinical experience, you may have to redo your coursework. So going for a general research M.A. might be better, but it depends. You won't have as much clinical, but you should have at shot of credits from your general classes transferring to the Ph.D. program. Schools vary overall in how they deal with incoming Master's students, but it is just something to consider.

Good luck!

 

[Cosmo 23]

fyi, credits from a masters in counseling psychology program will likely only transfer to a PhD program in counseling psychology. I applied to coun and clin phd programs and was accepted at both. Only counseling programs would give me (substantial) credit for my 60 credit masters in counseling psych. Clinical programs were more likely to give 2-3 classes of credit, as if they were transfer credits. Whereas I am able to apply over half of my 60 credits in my current counseling psychology phd program.

 

[Aura5]

unfortunately I have no words of advice - other than, I'm pretty much in the same position if that makes you feel better. Feeling a bit overwhelmed, too, not even sure where to start/how to begin. I recently have been getting some practical experience, and am trying to maybe find a job in the interim too - but my ultimate goal is to get a Phd, or probably PsyD in clinical psychology. I didn't graduate in psychology, though have about 15 credits in it and a high GPA...but honestly, I don't know what to do next. Someone suggested getting a Master's for the same reasons here - to "catch up" on the courses/research experience/etc that I lack. But I'm not sure where to look for that. I'm on the mid-atlantic/east coast. I feel kind of stuck in a rut and wish I had some solid direction/guidance! I won't give up though...just not sure at all which direction to take and/or what to do next.

anyway...good luck with it, Psych-O, and do let me know if you figure out something that works

 

[wdd]

There are a ton of programs, of course, in the Mid-Atlantic region--some are funded. I can point you to Villanova, St. Joe's, NYU and CUNY, all of which have some degree of "General" Master's program. Someone on the board is a big fan of Wake Forest, too, but I haven't looked into that.

I'm going to go the School of Continuing Studies route--check this thread out for some info on that. It might be a viable option, if you don't want to/don't have to shell out for a Master's.

unfortunately I have no words of advice - other than, I'm pretty much in the same position if that makes you feel better. Feeling a bit overwhelmed, too, not even sure where to start/how to begin. I recently have been getting some practical experience, and am trying to maybe find a job in the interim too - but my ultimate goal is to get a Phd, or probably PsyD in clinical psychology. I didn't graduate in psychology, though have about 15 credits in it and a high GPA...but honestly, I don't know what to do next. Someone suggested getting a Master's for the same reasons here - to "catch up" on the courses/research experience/etc that I lack. But I'm not sure where to look for that. I'm on the mid-atlantic/east coast. I feel kind of stuck in a rut and wish I had some solid direction/guidance! I won't give up though...just not sure at all which direction to take and/or what to do next.

anyway...good luck with it, Psych-O, and do let me know if you figure out something that works

 

[Aura5]

Well that was a quick reply! Thanks! And this might be a dumb question - but is there any good resource/list/book something that lists the MS programs that are around?

I am more near the Villanova/St. Joseph area. I also looked at Loyola college a little, in Maryland. They have a practitioner oriented master's program, which would prepare for a PsyD. I do think I am leaning towards a PsyD, or more practice-oriented degree than research-oriented. So I guess a question is, would a general, research oriented master's program (unlike the aforementioned Loyola one) hinder my chances for a PsyD? I see how it would be good to "catch up" on research for a possible PhD, but wonder it if it would hinder possibilities for a PsyD. Hope that made sense, lol.

And thanks for the link for an alternate route, as well. Certainly, it is not like I have a magical pot of money sitting around...

There are a ton of programs, of course, in the Mid-Atlantic region--some are funded. I can point you to Villanova, St. Joe's, NYU and CUNY, all of which have some degree of "General" Master's program. Someone on the board is a big fan of Wake Forest, too, but I haven't looked into that.

I'm going to go the School of Continuing Studies route--check this thread out for some info on that. It might be a viable option, if you don't want to/don't have to shell out for a Master's.

 

[wdd]

I've had a lot of trouble finding any one source for Master's programs. There isn't a guide book like there is for PhD/PsyD programs. I've mostly just thought of schools in areas I like, and checked those out. I'm sort of geographically limited (Chicago or Philly/NY), so that made it easier.

As for a research-oriented MS hurting your chances for a PsyD program, I would guess that no, it wouldn't hurt. I'm not an expert--I'm not even in a program at this point--but I would bet that most people here would tell you that research is still important in a PsyD program; it's just weighted differently. Maybe having some volunteer or paid clinical experience would help, to balance it all out. That said, Villanova is very research-oriented--it's like a little PhD program--and it's the only one on the list I put together that had any potential for funding. (Wake Forest is also funded; NYU is godawful expensive; CUNY is relatively dirt-cheap.)

Well that was a quick reply! Thanks! And this might be a dumb question - but is there any good resource/list/book something that lists the MS programs that are around?

I am more near the Villanova/St. Joseph area. I also looked at Loyola college a little, in Maryland. They have a practitioner oriented master's program, which would prepare for a PsyD. I do think I am leaning towards a PsyD, or more practice-oriented degree than research-oriented. So I guess a question is, would a general, research oriented master's program (unlike the aforementioned Loyola one) hinder my chances for a PsyD? I see how it would be good to "catch up" on research for a possible PhD, but wonder it if it would hinder possibilities for a PsyD. Hope that made sense, lol.

And thanks for the link for an alternate route, as well. Certainly, it is not like I have a magical pot of money sitting around...

 

[Aura5]

Well, glad I'm not the only one who couldn't find a good resource for Master's programs. I have that Insider's Guide to Graduate Progams in Clinical and Counseling Psychology, which did a good job delineating what I have (not much lol!) and what I need, as well as listing available PsyD and PhD programs, as you said. I found it to be a very good resource. But nothing like that for the master's...

And thanks for your input on the research vs. practitioner master's. According to that book, it does seem research experience is important for a PsyD as well, though not as much as it is for a PhD. And who knows, maybe if I did a more general master's, I'd realize research IS more what I want, and wouldn't be limited. I dunno.

There are just a lot of elements to juggle and sort out, as I'm sure you know... So it's good to hear other people's opinions/experiences with things.

I've had a lot of trouble finding any one source for Master's programs. There isn't a guide book like there is for PhD/PsyD programs. I've mostly just thought of schools in areas I like, and checked those out. I'm sort of geographically limited (Chicago or Philly/NY), so that made it easier.

As for a research-oriented MS hurting your chances for a PsyD program, I would guess that no, it wouldn't hurt. I'm not an expert--I'm not even in a program at this point--but I would bet that most people here would tell you that research is still important in a PsyD program; it's just weighted differently. Maybe having some volunteer or paid clinical experience would help, to balance it all out. That said, Villanova is very research-oriented--it's like a little PhD program--and it's the only one on the list I put together that had any potential for funding. (Wake Forest is also funded; NYU is godawful expensive; CUNY is relatively dirt-cheap.)