match day stats

[amyl]

I am more years out from this than I care to admit a close friends sister didn't match (she was trying derm)- how competitive is anesthesia these days? how easy is it to scramble into a good position? how competitive is radiology these days? path?

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[Dantrolene FC]

I am more years out from this than I care to admit a close friends sister didn't match (she was trying derm)- how competitive is anesthesia these days? how easy is it to scramble into a good position? how competitive is radiology these days? path?

Anestheisa was quite competitive this year, although it only requires average board scores. Radiology also only requires average board scores. And it is my understanding that anyone can get into path.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Anestheisa was quite competitive this year, although it only requires average board scores. Radiology also only requires average board scores. And it is my understanding that anyone can get into path.

At brand name tier 1 and tier 2 programs it continues to be very competitive with average scores increasing year over year. An influx of new, community-based programs keeps a number of open slots after the main Match. I really do worry about the training one would get there as many/most complex cases get shipped out to the U.

Radiology is the opposite. When I was a student it was very hot but the writing was starting to be on the wall. Now there are many open slots and IR apparently has broken off entirely.

 

[GC-DR]

This year, there were basically no open anesthesia spots, it was highly competitive this year. It saw a 15% increase in applications which was more than any other specialty.
This came out yesterday from NRMP, and you can see that there was basically nothing left.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Those charts are not supposed to be duplicated, FYI.

 

[nimbus]

This year, there were basically no open anesthesia spots, it was highly competitive this year. It saw a 15% increase in applications which was more than any other specialty.
This came out yesterday from NRMP, and you can see that there was basically nothing left.
View attachment 298898View attachment 298899

An increase in applications does not equal an increase in applicants. People may be sending out more applications on average. It would be interesting to see how many applicants there were compared to available spots.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

An increase in applications does not equal an increase in applicants. People may be sending out more applications on average. It would be interesting to see how many applicants there were compared to available spots.

There were 2270 American applicants this year compared to 2176 last year. So a 4.3% increase in Americans.

There was a decrease of IMG applicants of 745 compared to 812 last year.

Average applications per person for anesthesia increase to 52.3 compared to 46.2 last year. So an increase of 13%.

So it’s a a bit of both, more applicants and more applications on average.

I would be more interested to see how the average board scores have changed compared to the median score this year vs in 2018. I predict it doesn’t change appreciably.

It is my hypothesis that the process was just more efficient this year. More applicants going on more interviews and programs interviewing more applicants = greater efficiency.

 

[BLADEMDA]

52 applications. That's absurd. Back in my day I sent in maybe 12 applications and went on 8 interviews. There is something wrong with the process if 52 applications per applicant is now the "average."

 

[Dantrolene FC]

52 applications. That's absurd. Back in my day I sent in maybe 12 applications and went on 8 interviews. There is something wrong with the process if 52 applications per applicant is now the "average."

8 programs would “only” give you a 97% chance of matching anesthesia. But 12 or more would virtually give you an almost 100% chance of matching.

I wasn’t willing to risk a 3% chance of never being an anesthesiologist, so I went on 14 interviews, and my only regret is not applying to more reach programs.

I applied to ~60 programs. I honestly probably applied to 52 of those programs without reading their websites.

 

[TheNolano]

52 applications. That's absurd. Back in my day I sent in maybe 12 applications and went on 8 interviews. There is something wrong with the process if 52 applications per applicant is now the "average."

it’s a nuclear arms race. If you apply to fewer schools than the rest you have a mathematically lower chance of matching. If everyone applies to 10 more schools this year vs last, everyone’s odds stay the same. The only people who lose are those who don’t play the game.

It’s showing up in med school, residency, hell even college admissions.

the cynic in me says nothing is being done because schools and organizations make gobs of money from us over applying. But the realist in me cannot see another good option. Limiting number of apps would absolutely hurt weaker applicants and you’d probably have a lot more back room deals.

Honestly I sometimes wonder if the only fair way would be to have one application that automatically goes to every program in the country for every applicant. But that sounds logistically impossible.

 

[abolt18]

52 applications. That's absurd. Back in my day I sent in maybe 12 applications and went on 8 interviews. There is something wrong with the process if 52 applications per applicant is now the "average."

But I don't know if this is looking at TOTAL applications, or just one specialty. I applied to 33 anesthesia programs, of which the advanced and categorical spots on several of them counted as 2 separate applications. Then I also applied to ~10 prelim medicine/TY years. Altogether you're hitting high forties to low fifties if those all get counted. But really it was 33 anesthesia programs (probably overkill, but as a DO with great but not AMAZING board scores I wanted to make certain).

Went to 12 anesthesia interviews and cancelled a handful. I think the data was showing nearly 100% match rate for people going to 10+ at the time.

This was 4 years ago. I think things have only escalated since that time.

 

[nimbus]

52 applications. That's absurd. Back in my day I sent in maybe 12 applications and went on 8 interviews. There is something wrong with the process if 52 applications per applicant is now the "average."

Ortho program directors are considering a limit on applications per applicant because they are getting so many. It would definitely save time and money for both applicants and programs.

Applying to Orthopaedic Residency and Matching Rates:... : JBJS

to determine an ideal number of applications that each student can submit without jeopardizing his or her probability of matching into an orthopaedic residency slot while concurrently reducing the excessive number of applications that are received by program selection committees. Methods...

journals.lww.com

It Is Time to Change the Status Quo: Limiting Orthopedic Surgery Residency Applications

Orthopedics | The Current State of Affairs Applicants Orthopedic surgery remains one of the most competitive residencies to which medical students apply. In 2016, although there were 1058 applicants, 717 orthopedic surgery postgraduate year-1 positions were...

www.healio.com

 

[Dantrolene FC]

But I don't know if this is looking at TOTAL applications, or just one specialty. I applied to 33 anesthesia programs, of which the advanced and categorical spots on several of them counted as 2 separate applications. Then I also applied to ~10 prelim medicine/TY years. Altogether you're hitting high forties to low fifties if those all get counted. But really it was 33 anesthesia programs (probably overkill, but as a DO with great but not AMAZING board scores I wanted to make certain).

Went to 12 anesthesia interviews and cancelled a handful. I think the data was showing nearly 100% match rate for people going to 10+ at the time.

This was 4 years ago. I think things have only escalated since that time.

The average application number is for anesthesiology applications only. It doesn’t count prelim or TY apps. I am not sure if it counts advanced and categorical as separate applications, although I suspect it doesn’t since it doesn’t charge you separately when applying to multiple tracks for the same program.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Wow 1 open categorical spot. That is crazy. When I graduated medical school it was like 50.

 

[nycitygas]

Radiation oncology... wow. Several of my med school friends did an extra year of research to get in

 

[realmadrid23]

SOAPing this year despite 10 interviews. Good letters and scores, no reason to think any interview went poorly...just a madhouse this year (am a DO though)

 

[Dantrolene FC]

SOAPing this year despite 10 interviews. Good letters and scores, no reason to think any interview went poorly...just a madhouse this year (am a DO though)

Dang, that sucks. Sorry to hear that happened to you.

I’m curious, what were your scores.

 

[chocomorsel]

8 programs would “only” give you a 97% chance of matching anesthesia. But 12 or more would virtually give you an almost 100% chance of matching.

I wasn’t willing to risk a 3% chance of never being an anesthesiologist, so I went on 14 interviews, and my only regret is not applying to more reach programs.

I applied to ~60 programs. I honestly probably applied to 52 of those programs without reading their websites.

Can I ask what this cost? Just curious. I don't remember how many I applied to, but I think I went on about 9 or 10. That was 12 years ago.

 

[realmadrid23]

Dang, that sucks. Sorry to hear that happened to you.

I’m curious, what were your scores.

239/44

 

[BLADEMDA]

The answer is to limit applications to 40 per specialty. Problem solved. Each Med Student can apply to 40 programs per specialty. That means for PGY-1 year a transitional program or IM program won't count towards that 40 limit.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Can I ask what this cost? Just curious. I don't remember how many I applied to, but I think I went on about 9 or 10. That was 12 years ago.

60 applications is $1219. Plus you have to add another $300 since I applied to prelim med/surg/TY.

If I remember correctly I had 6-7 flights at probably an average of $400 each. Luckily 75% of my programs paid for my hotels. The rest I stayed in Airbnb’s for about $40-50/night.

So I probably had $3000 in travel expenses at least once you add flights, Airbnbs, and Ubers.

And don’t forget that $85 NRMP fee.

I already had suits from church and med school interviews, so I didn’t have to purchase any extra clothing.

And I didn’t do any aways because they’re too pricey.


If I had to guess, my overall interview expenses were easily less than the average. I am lucky to go to a school with a major airport with tons of flights

Overall I probably had $5000 residency and interview expenses. But this is without counting gas and wear and tear from the 2,500 miles I drove in total for interviews. And I haven’t included the parking at the airports of about $25/day.

If you count all the step exams plus the flight and hotel for CS, you can probably add on another $3500 without even counting the review materials, which was probably another $2500.

 

[aneftp]

That’s what the USA gets for increasing lcme med schools by 17 schools the past 20 years. Before. I think USF university of south Florida was newest lcme med school in 1976. So 24 years before med schools limits number of students applying. They have only increased anesthesia slots by maybe 500 total slots since 2000 year.

 

[Consigliere]

SOAPing this year despite 10 interviews. Good letters and scores, no reason to think any interview went poorly...just a madhouse this year (am a DO though)

There's the reason.

 

[Agast]

If your dream is cosmetic dermatology, the path of least resistance is 3 years of family medicine and then do a couple of workshops on botox, laser, etc. and you can pretty much do whatever you want.

 

[realmadrid23]

There's the reason.

Likely hurt, but many from my school matched anesthesia with much lower stats.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

This year, there were basically no open anesthesia spots, it was highly competitive this year. It saw a 15% increase in applications which was more than any other specialty.
This came out yesterday from NRMP, and you can see that there was basically nothing left.
View attachment 298898View attachment 298899

where did you access this list?

 

[Dantrolene FC]

where did you access this list?

That list is only accessible by applicants participating in the match. Hence, why I mentioned earlier that list is to not be duplicated. I believe the information goes public tomorrow, but I am not 100% certain.

It also says reproduction is prohibited at the bottom of the documents. And in big red letters at the top, which is cut off from those screenshots.

 

[zero0]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

 

[nimbus]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

I wish I was a radiologist right now.

 

[chocomorsel]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

At least you won’t have to prove that you are better than mid levels. And fight with them for jobs or deal with their egos at work. I have seriously called hospitals in the past looking to talk to their anesthesia group for a job only to be told that they only use CRNAs.
You are better off as long as you don’t fall asleep easily in dark quiet rooms like I do.

 

[anbuitachi]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

not sure why its getting competitive again. i feel like compared to other specialties, it has gotten less attractive to be anesthesiologist..

 

[vector2]

not sure why its getting competitive again. i feel like compared to other specialties, it has gotten less attractive to be anesthesiologist..

My guess is EM and anesthesia still have one of the most favorable competitiveness/training duration : compensation ratios

 

[aneftp]

not sure why its getting competitive again. i feel like compared to other specialties, it has gotten less attractive to be anesthesiologist..

No overhead. No office staff to pay. No rent to pay for office.

still good pay for hours worked ($300-400k) compared to other specialities.

Those going into emergency medicine are gonna to be feeling even more pain with rise of mid levels.

only ent, urology, plastics, neurosurgery are immune.

on the cardiology side. Ep docs and interventional

 

[chocomorsel]

No overhead. No office staff to pay. No rent to pay for office.

still good pay for hours worked ($300-400k) compared to other specialities.

Those going into emergency medicine are gonna to be feeling even more pain with rise of mid levels.

only ent, urology, plastics, neurosurgery are immune.

on the cardiology side. Ep docs and interventional

If you have a private practice you have all the above. It may just be on the low side. Overhead, billers, secretary, office managers, rent. It’s there. Been there.
But yes it’s low compared to other fields. I just can’t understand the competitiveness considering nurses keep making so much progress into our territory.

 

[anbuitachi]

No overhead. No office staff to pay. No rent to pay for office.

still good pay for hours worked ($300-400k) compared to other specialities.

Those going into emergency medicine are gonna to be feeling even more pain with rise of mid levels.

only ent, urology, plastics, neurosurgery are immune.

on the cardiology side. Ep docs and interventional

but thats not new.
if you look at the salary trends, many other fields are rising way faster than us.. like neurology..

meanwhile only a minority of IM residents are US MD grads.. but a lot of high paying fellowships are after IM (GI, cardiology, hemeonc..)

 

[Yellow345]

but thats not new.
if you look at the salary trends, many other fields are rising way faster than us.. like neurology..

meanwhile only a minority of IM residents are US MD grads.. but a lot of high paying fellowships are after IM (GI, cardiology, hemeonc..)

There’s a risk of not matching into fellowship and being stuck in IM which many people would not be happy with. Plus it’s 6 years vs 4 with anesthesia

 

[deleted126335]

still good pay for hours worked ($300-400k) compared to other specialities.

Low on the prestige on respect side for many but certainly not all practices. So it does have to be higher on the hourly rate side.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[anbuitachi]

There’s a risk of not matching into fellowship and being stuck in IM which many people would not be happy with. Plus it’s 6 years vs 4 with anesthesia

its not that bad iether unless they hate medicine. good hospitalist gig is good.
but with so many high paying fellowships, its hard to not land in any, unless you were uncompetitive to begin with

 

[Ho0v-man]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

So you soaped into the more competitive specialty? Wut?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I wish I was a radiologist right now.

No you don't. Take a look at their thread. Everyone is screaming "sky is falling" and quoting something like 40% drop in their read volume.

 

[nimbus]

No you don't. Take a look at their thread. Everyone is screaming "sky is falling" and quoting something like 40% drop in their read volume.

That’s a lower drop than us and they can avoid occupational COVID19 exposure.

 

[Lecithin5]

I wish I was a radiologist right now.

Well, maybe not right now- many are being furloughed (I guess not unlike many medical specialties). No clinics and reduced surgeries = less imaging

 

[zero0]

So you soaped into the more competitive specialty? Wut?

Yeah not an IMG but this is basically me rn

Tbh I thought about applying rads to begin with but - get this - i didn't think I had the scores

 

[Neopolymath]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

Wow. After speaking to you earlier this year I can't believe this happened to you. I'm glad it will work out in the end. I'm struggling between anesthesiology and radiology still and it really comes down to what happened to you. I'm sorry.

I feel confident that even in a ****ty radiology program I can become a good radiologist. It seems like something that comes mostly from one's desire to read on their own time and be great. That said, I fear most anesthesiology residencies are not good anymore (just the vibe on here, reddit, and real life) and that even with good stats I have a good chance of being at a bad program in a specialty that it actually matters to go into a good program. You can't read anesthesia in books like you can radiology. It seems like you must train in big cases at a big hospital to learn the in the moment aspects of anesthesia. Even if you don't do livers/tons of trauma, those skills help you in general when you move on to PP attending jobs.

Been seeing a lot of posts like yours this year and last year and it makes me question if I should even apply to this specialty given the odds I will end up in an IMG sweatshop or really **** non-academic department with no respect/preference to crnas even at my own training program. Why even bother? It might be dramatic but as a DO, at least I know the locus of control in radiology is still with me. Ugh...

 

[nimbus]

Well, maybe not right now- many are being furloughed (I guess not unlike many medical specialties). No clinics and reduced surgeries = less imaging

Tell me about it. We usually have 16-17 people working every day. Nowadays it’s 3-4. Urgent and emergent cases only.

 

[jw3600]

Thought I'd add in my stats, mostly as a cautionary tale for next year's applicants. DO 230/241 COMLEX 556/622 plenty of research, ECs, you name it, repeated one online 2 credit class. Got 17 interviews, went on 14, 15 ranks... failed to match. Anesthesiology is competitive again. Everything is competitive in the world after 2020 seems like. Be realistic going forward guys, I was going based off the 2018 charting outcomes when I decided to apply where basically everybody matched. Those days are gone. Based on what I'm hearing this year was a massacre.

Thankfully by some act of God I managed to SOAP into radiology and couldn't be more thrilled. Gonna pick up a pack of vitamin D supplements and stick with it.

Exactly average scores and a DO. Failed to match. How the **** am I getting **** for saying DO schools are now a ridiculously poor decision with the new P/F Step 1? It is impossible to convince sheep not to march to the slaughter in the premed and medical forums.

I had better scores than you by a large margin and also had a less than stellar match result as a DO.

We caught the last wave (more than a gentle lake ripple) of DO success.

The game for osteopaths is ending.

Congratulations man.

 

[nimbus]

Still the match looked pretty damn good for DO’s going into ortho.

 

[Neopolymath]

Still the match looked pretty damn good for DO’s going into ortho.

Previous AOA ortho programs do one thing right for sure: Favor people who put their balls on the line and do a rotation with them to be allowed to interview. It's one of the few perks of previous DO traditions. They don't interview a lot of people who apply and put their money where their mouth is about giving priority to rotators.

 

[GC-DR]

Look it’s not doom and gloom. I’m an IMG and I matched to a great academic centre with 232/250.
Scores open doors for interviews that’s it.
It’s how you present yourself at the interview and your interpersonal skills that will get you the job.
I’m not saying the Original DO poster doesn’t have great interpersonal skills I don’t know him/her. Sometimes it’s just bad luck.
But never don’t apply to a specialty because you think the competition is too fierce. Do 3 aways in anesthesia and kill them. And make you application like a lazer beam. And you’ll match. Doesn’t mater what school or score you have.
Most PDs will take a charasmatic keen person with a genuine love for the field that wants to be at their program. Over a high board scorer that just doesn’t care that much.

 

[JiPo]

Look it’s not doom and gloom. I’m an IMG and I matched to a great academic centre with 232/250.
Scores open doors for interviews that’s it.
It’s how you present yourself at the interview and your interpersonal skills that will get you the job.
I’m not saying the Original DO poster doesn’t have great interpersonal skills I don’t know him/her. Sometimes it’s just bad luck.
But never don’t apply to a specialty because you think the competition is too fierce. Do 3 aways in anesthesia and kill them. And make you application like a lazer beam. And you’ll match. Doesn’t mater what school or score you have.
Most PDs will take a charasmatic keen person with a genuine love for the field that wants to be at their program. Over a high board scorer that just doesn’t care that much.

It is only gonna get worse for DOs. This year, next year, and maybe the following year will still have step 1 score, which can be used as advantage to climb up.

Once it fully transitions to p/f, DOs and IMGs will be at severe disadvantage against USMDs

It is about the fit once you get an interview, but you wont get many interviews to “prove” your fit.