Match in the military

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Dr. Anonymouss

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I am strongly considering taking the HPSP scholarship, about 95% committed and I wanted to know if anyone had experience with the scholarship, their opinions on military medicine and more importantly the match. I was speaking with my recruiter and I told him how I am most interested in general surgery, EM, or family medicine with the first two being far ahead of family. The recruiter told me that it is much easier to match general surgery in the military than general surgery in civilian, but he said the EM is very competitive in the military. Anyone know if this is true?? I think it seems to make sense because non-military personal can't match military while military personal can match both military and civilian. Thanks everyone.

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The recruiter told me that it is much easier to match general surgery in the military than general surgery in civilian,

I know for a fact this isn't true.

I think it seems to make sense because non-military personal can't match military while military personal can match both military and civilian.

And there are much fewer military spots than civilian. While they say "oh you can match a civilian residency" it's not that common.

Only do the HPSP scholarship if you are the kind of person who would join the military anyway, otherwise it isn't worth it. You will be paying back a massive debt either way, either in money or time. The potential to match a specialty "easier" in the military match is a really bad reason to choose HPSP.
 
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Which branch you looking at? I was considering doing the HPSP as well but decided against it.

Matching will depend on which specialities are in need for that particular year. There could be an instance where there are only 2 EM spots available which in that case your chances are much smaller of matching into that specialty. But on the other hand there might be a ton of spots for EM and then you would be in luck. I know when I was looking at Air Force, since the population is rather young and healthy, they really wanted people to go into family medicine and Peds.

A big turn off for me (and this is from word of mouth) sometimes the quality of the residency can be a lot different than the civilian. For example a EM doc I talked to from Air Force said the people he saw in his ED was a lot different than what he would have seen in the civilian field. He said he only averaged one central line and one intubation a year. He felt like his skills weren’t being developed as much as he would have liked. He just wasn’t seeing the sick and critical patients he was hoping for.

On the other hand I’ve met anesthesiologists that said doing anesthesia in the army was a great experience. But I’m pretty sure anesthesia is always a in demand speciality with the army.

You definitely want to try and match into a military residency. I believe they will only pay you officer pay if you are in a military speciality. If you do a civilian specialty you have to take the pay the hospital gives you.
 
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I know for a fact this isn't true.



And there are much fewer military spots than civilian. While they say "oh you can match a civilian residency" it's not that common.

Only do the HPSP scholarship if you are the kind of person who would join the military anyway, otherwise it isn't worth it. You will be paying back a massive debt either way, either in money or time. The potential to match a specialty "easier" in the military match is a really bad reason to choose HPSP.

No no, that wasn't a reason I was planning on joining. This is just something he told me today and it sounded nice. I would be happy with general surgery, EM, or family. My intentions to join the military are not solely based on finances, although it does play a big part in my decision.
 
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Which branch you looking at? I was considering doing the HPSP as well but decided against it.

Matching will depend on which specialities are in need for that particular year. There could be an instance where there are only 2 EM spots available which in that case your chances are much smaller of matching into that specialty. But on the other hand there might be a ton of spots for EM and then you would be in luck. I know when I was looking at Air Force, since the population is rather young and healthy, they really wanted people to go into family medicine and Peds.

A big turn off for me (and this is from word of mouth) sometimes the quality of the residency can be a lot different than the civilian. For example a EM doc I talked to from Air Force said the people he saw in his ED was a lot different than what he would have seen in the civilian field. He said he only averaged one central line and one intubation a year. He felt like his skills weren’t being developed as much as he would have liked. He just wasn’t seeing the sick and critical patients he was hoping for.

On the other hand I’ve met anesthesiologists that said doing anesthesia in the army was a great experience. But I’m pretty sure anesthesia is always a in demand speciality with the army.

You definitely want to try and match into a military residency. I believe they will only pay you officer pay if you are in a military speciality. If you do a civilian specialty you have to take the pay the hospital gives you.

Are you aware what would happen if I only put a match into say... EM and general surgery and I did not match into the military for those specialties. Would they make me put in a match to family medicine or would I automatically be put in the civilian match for general surgery and EM? I think this is the part that worries me the most, is being pushed to be a doctor that I don't want to be. I know I said I wouldn't mind family, but maybe I will become more polarized after doing clinicals and I will want to be able to pursue the field of medicine that I am most interested in.
 
Are you aware what would happen if I only put a match into say... EM and general surgery and I did not match into the military for those specialties. Would they make me put in a match to family medicine or would I automatically be put in the civilian match for general surgery and EM? I think this is the part that worries me the most, is being pushed to be a doctor that I don't want to be. I know I said I wouldn't mind family, but maybe I will become more polarized after doing clinicals and I will want to be able to pursue the field of medicine that I am most interested in.

If you don’t match you do a GMO tour.
 
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If you don’t match you do a GMO tour.

But I know they talk about deferring to civilian match, so how does that come into play? If I understand what you said correctly, it's that if I don't match my selected specialties in the military I will automatically be thrown into a GMO tour.
 
But I know they talk about deferring to civilian match, so how does that come into play? If I understand what you said correctly, it's that if I don't match my selected specialties in the military I will automatically be thrown into a GMO tour.

It is branch dependent but getting a waiver to do a civilian residency instead is very uncommon. If you failed to match you'd prob end up doing a GMO tour. I know people who did though, got out in 4 years and loved it.

A mentor of mine when I was considering HPSP was an EM doc who did get a civilian residency. He told me EM is harder to get in the mil match and that civilian residency waivers were incredibly hard to come by.

Spend some time in the milmed forum on here, and ask your recruiter if you can talk to a former HPSP doc. Most offices will have one that they contact to help applicants make this decision. Be aware that there are several other ways you can serve as as physician. It is not HPSP or bust.
 
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But I know they talk about deferring to civilian match, so how does that come into play? If I understand what you said correctly, it's that if I don't match my selected specialties in the military I will automatically be thrown into a GMO tour.

Like was said above, they say that you can do the civilian match but it is extremely uncommon. They require a waiver which most people don't get. I know a current radiology resident who didn't match in the military out of med school, decided to just do 5 GMO tours to pay off his time debt, and is now in residency. It isn't a fun route.

tldr. I wouldn't count on being able to enter the civilian match. If you don't match military you will most likely be doing a GMO tour, or two, or three...
 
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Are you aware what would happen if I only put a match into say... EM and general surgery and I did not match into the military for those specialties. Would they make me put in a match to family medicine or would I automatically be put in the civilian match for general surgery and EM? I think this is the part that worries me the most, is being pushed to be a doctor that I don't want to be. I know I said I wouldn't mind family, but maybe I will become more polarized after doing clinicals and I will want to be able to pursue the field of medicine that I am most interested in.
Do you want to be a military officer more than you want to be a doctor? Yes > milmed. No > *do not sign up*
 
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But I know they talk about deferring to civilian match, so how does that come into play? If I understand what you said correctly, it's that if I don't match my selected specialties in the military I will automatically be thrown into a GMO tour.
I believe Air Force defers like 40% to civilian, may be off on that, but pretty sure if I recall right it was some where around there. Army is like less that 1% and not sure about navy
 
I am strongly considering taking the HPSP scholarship, about 95% committed and I wanted to know if anyone had experience with the scholarship, their opinions on military medicine and more importantly the match. I was speaking with my recruiter and I told him how I am most interested in general surgery, EM, or family medicine with the first two being far ahead of family. The recruiter told me that it is much easier to match general surgery in the military than general surgery in civilian, but he said the EM is very competitive in the military. Anyone know if this is true?? I think it seems to make sense because non-military personal can't match military while military personal can match both military and civilian. Thanks everyone.
Recruiters, like Deans, are paid to lie.
 
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I am strongly considering taking the HPSP scholarship, about 95% committed and I wanted to know if anyone had experience with the scholarship, their opinions on military medicine and more importantly the match. I was speaking with my recruiter and I told him how I am most interested in general surgery, EM, or family medicine with the first two being far ahead of family. The recruiter told me that it is much easier to match general surgery in the military than general surgery in civilian, but he said the EM is very competitive in the military. Anyone know if this is true?? I think it seems to make sense because non-military personal can't match military while military personal can match both military and civilian. Thanks everyone.

No... not true that it's easier to match in military than civilian. You should talk to physicians who went through the match in the facebook HPSP Students and Physicians group. 2018 group just got matched a few days ago and they're still buzzing. Not sure what branch you're going to, but you can also find the number of general surgery spots they had this year in the AF by googling "HPERB 2018".
 
No... not true that it's easier to match in military than civilian. You should talk to physicians who went through the match in the facebook HPSP Students and Physicians group. 2018 group just got matched a few days ago and they're still buzzing. Not sure what branch you're going to, but you can also find the number of general surgery spots they had this year in the AF by googling "HPERB 2018".

???

Want to put your specialty of interest up to the chance of how many of a small cohort want a small number of spots? Check out the competitiveness of each specialty and how it changes through time. The swings between years are wild.
 
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???

Want to put your specialty of interest up to the chance of how many of a small cohort want a small number of spots? Check out the competitiveness of each specialty and how it changes through time. The swings between years are wild.

Oh definitely. I just wanted to illustrate to OP just how few spots there are.
 
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No I don't. Thank you
Glad that helped, it’s easy to make the wrong choice and end up owing ~ a decade of your life to the .mil. Recruiters dangle the carrot & it’s a tasty one... Good luck & really glad you came to the right conclusion for yourself!

FWIW for those considering HPSP the program has a lot of pluses and I’m personally really happy w my choice, but this being true is a critical part of Army being a good fit.
 
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I am HPSP, matched anesthesiology this year, feel free to ask me any questions. Let me respond to a few things I have seen on this thread though.

If you don’t match you do a GMO tour.

This is half true, and dependent on what year you apply, and what branch you are in. AF and Army if you dont match you do a prelim or TY year, then you can re-apply the next year into your specialty. If you do not match again, then you could do a GMO/flight doc tour to ride out the rest of your commitment, and apply for the residency you wanted through the civilian match (this is fairly common). Some people who don't match are not competitive for their specialty they don't match with in the first place, and will simply choose to go into IM or FM (note, they CANNOT force you into a specialty you dont want to do). I cannot speak for how the navy does things.

Recruiters, like Deans, are paid to lie.

This, while it seems to ring true on the surface, isn't necessarily the truth. Recruiters are paid to fill their numbers, that's what they care about. While some may outright lie (I think this is more rare tbh) most will simply tell half truths. Take anesthesiology for example: the army this year had 12 slots for anesthesia, and they ONLY fill active duty slots, they do not civilian defer. The AF has 6 active duty slots, so a recruiter could in good conscience say "the army has DOUBLE the amount of anesthesiology residencies than the AF!" and technically be telling the truth. However, he would be leaving out a fairly large fact that the AF fills over 50% of its slots via civilian deferment (civdef), and that the AF technically has 22 (this year 32) slots that it can fill for residency. So when a recruiter tells you something, try to dig deeper on the side and find out what the actual facts surrounding a great claim they make is.

As far as civilian deferment I have seen a lot of numbers thrown out that are mostly inaccurate, it really depends on what you want to go into and what branch you are. If you are Army, count on doing a military residency. If you are AF, whether you do a mil or civdef residency depends on what specialty you go into (again, anesthesiology much higher chance of civdef than say FM/IM/peds).

For residency pay, someone said "they only pay you what an officer makes," I'd like to expand on that. Officer pay is very good, especially since you are making the base pay of the officer, along with a basic allowance for substinance (BAS) of about 250/month, and a basic allowance for housing (BAH) which is dependent on where you live (1800/month in San Antonio, for example). All in all, a captain in residency makes about 80-90k/yr depending on years in service and where you live.

Again, if you have any questions let me know.
 
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but this being true is a critical part of Army being a good fit.

Or the Navy. Or the Air Force. You have to be okay with being an officer alongside or above being a doctor—especially a certain type of doctor, as the specialty you become interested in may not be available.
 
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I know it fluctuates year to year, but in general how competitive is obgyn residency in air Force and army?
 
Sorry to bump the thread.

Is the general consensus that matching competitive specialities in the military is not easier, rather dependent on that certain year?
 
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