Match rate for UMHS in St Kitts?

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FriendofAMedStudent2

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Hey all,

I'm a friend of someone who is applying for medical school. Her mentor (who has both a PhD and an MD) has really pushed for her to apply for a Carribbean school. My friend has really struggled these last few years and I believe had a 3.3 undergrad, 3.5 pre-med classes. Her MCATs weren't that hot. But her mentor claims Carribbean schools are perfect for people like her. When I expressed concern that she may not match for residency, she told me that her mentor said that was just hearsay and that UMHS has a 96% match rate.

Is this true? My friend is incredibly trusting and I just wanted to double check on this. Sometimes even the smartest of mentors are misinformed.

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Use the search function and I suspect you will find answers to what you seek :)
 
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She needs to find a new mentor. This mentor is actively harming this individual.
I am suspicious of this supposed mentor's motives. Any fool with an internet connection can figure out in 5 minutes common paths to financial ruin:

1. Never invest in multilevel marketing schemes.
2. Never buy a timeshare.
3. Never go to an offshore medical school.
 
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Simply a lie, just like your "friend"
 
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That match rate sounds great but what proportion of students who start there (matriculants) go into the match? What proportion of the students who start first year go on to pass the Step 1 (board) exam? You and your friend need to learn the word "attrition" and also consider the denominator. If you are looking at a 96% match rate and considering that you (or your friend) have a 96% chance of matching from that school you are doing it wrong unless the denominator is "incoming first year students". It is very likely that less than 50% of incoming first year students reach the point where they match.
 
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Simply a lie, just like your "friend"
She needs to find a new mentor. This mentor is actively harming this individual.
I am suspicious of this supposed mentor's motives. Any fool with an internet connection can figure out in 5 minutes common paths to financial ruin:

1. Never invest in multilevel marketing schemes.
2. Never buy a timeshare.
3. Never go to an offshore medical school.

I'm a bit suspicious of her too.

She told my friend (yes, this is my friend - she was abused and I'm her advocate if you all must know - this is why I feel a bit protective of her), that she loves carribean schools for people like her cause she has a learning disability. Her mentor is really smart but also works to get people into med school. I've wondered - and perhaps I'm being overly cynical - whether her mentor gets paid by these schools.

I also know someone who went to Grenada and has residency in Los Angeles. So I'm not sure it's fair to say that these places don't work for everyone?
 
I'm a bit suspicious of her too.

She told my friend (yes, this is my friend - she was abused and I'm her advocate if you all must know - this is why I feel a bit protective of her), that she loves carribean schools for people like her cause she has a learning disability. Her mentor is really smart but also works to get people into med school. I've wondered - and perhaps I'm being overly cynical - whether her mentor gets paid by these schools.

I also know someone who went to Grenada and has residency in Los Angeles. So I'm not sure it's fair to say that these places don't work for everyone?


Also....the attrition argument to me makes sense, but couldn't you argue that more people drop out of caribbean schools not because of the schools, but because they were never meant to go to med school to begin with? My friend said the program at St Kitts would be perfect for her because they have smaller classes, etc. If she doesn't succeed, she doesn't succeed. If she makes it through four years, then she'd have a high chance of matching. So why not try, right?

Her mentor was the National Director of the Medical & Healthcare Admissions Counseling at The Princeton Review....sooo I'm inclined to think she knows what she's talking about. But it still gave me pause.
 
St Kitts does not advertise their exact class size but says: "The new class size varies with each of the three rolling semesters (January, May, September). Generally, September semester holds the larger class that can be between 60 to 80 students."(Prospective Students St. Kitts | FAQ | Windsor University School of Medicine) Lets say there are 60 (lower limit) in each class, so that means there are 180 students. Now if you go to their match list, there are 122 matches listed: Match Results. that is approximately 1/3 that match.
But wait, look closer. Of those 122, at least 20 (I don't recognize all their abbreviations) are not in the continental US and 6 are ONLY transitional matches, meaning they only have PGY-1 placement. So of the 180 who begin, about half match in the United States.
I don't like those numbers.

EDIT: I will say, though, props to St. Kitts for at least posting this data. Most of the Caribbean schools don't even provide this much.
 
St Kitts does not advertise their exact class size but says: "The new class size varies with each of the three rolling semesters (January, May, September). Generally, September semester holds the larger class that can be between 60 to 80 students."(Lets say there are 60 (lower limit) in each class, so that means there are 180 students. Now if you go to their match list, there are 122 matches listed: that is approximately 1/3 that match.
But wait, look closer. Of those 122, at least 20 (I don't recognize all their abbreviations) are not in the continental US and 6 are ONLY transitional matches, meaning they only have PGY-1 placement. So of the 180 who begin, about half match in the United States.
I don't like those numbers.

EDIT: I will say, though, props to St. Kitts for at least posting this data. Most of the Caribbean schools don't even provide this much.

Thanks! But it's not Windsor she's going to. It's UMH (University of Medicine and Health Sciences).

Windsor is a worse ranked school I believe.
 
Well, they have almost the exact same website. Not to mention the EXACT same match list. So I'm not too sure they are different.

Can you clarify something for me? And I'm sorry if this is a REALLY dumb question lol.

But I'm confused as to why, if there's 60 people in a class, there's 122 matches in 2018? I'm confused why the match rate is twice the size of the graduating class?

My apologies...I know nothing about matching for residency or medical school in general!
 
The school has 3 classes a year starting in Fall, Spring, and Summer. So there can be anywhere from 150-200 people starting in a year, likely averaging 160-180 a year that could indicate 25%-30% attrition rate or 10x US MD average

Ohhh I see.

But is the implication that if you manage the course load and do well, you'd have a good chance at residency?
 
No, it isnt as previous posters have said that many of those post-graduate spots were not in US or were premlim, which means a temp spot that would require you to find a permanent spot in the next cycle. And, last of all, their UMHS reported numbers do night agree with the NRMP numbers. Effectively, UMHS is reported twice as many spots as the reliable data indicates. Going to this school would be an act of a fool

And, last of all, their UMHS reported numbers do night agree with the NRMP numbers. Effectively, UMHS is reported twice as many spots as the reliable data indicates.

I'm sorry, forgive me. What's NRMP? And what do you mean reported twice as many spots?
 
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Students at UMHS (confusing acronym because this is also what we used to call the University of Michigan Health System) rotate at a nearby hospital where I did an elective rotation. I met several of them who were competent enough medical students and reported doing passably well on the boards, but were still scared of their chances to match into any IM or FM program having applied to more than TWO HUNDRED programs.

If your friend didn't do well on the MCAT it's likely she won't do well on boards. If she doesn't do well on boards her chances at a residency spot are pretty low. I can't recommend UMHS and neither could the students I met from it. We all agreed that a good DO program gives you much better chances at 1) matching and 2) matching more competitive specialties.
 
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Ohhh I see.

But is the implication that if you manage the course load and do well, you'd have a good chance at residency?

SMH.... No. No. No. Even at the best Caribbean schools, your chances of matriculating and matching 4 years later hover around 50%. At the rest of them, none of which are really any better than the other, that chance is much less. If you exclude primary care, that chance is probably in the single digits. At a US MD school, that chance will be around 95%.

You will see long match lists for many reasons. Notably, the match list won't exclusively include people graduating that year. It includes people who have been trying to match since graduating 2,3,4,5 times or more.

Caribbean schools are exploitative for-profit institutions that do not fill any unmet need in training American doctors.

Let's try this again:

She needs to find a new mentor. This mentor is actively harming this individual.
I am suspicious of this supposed mentor's motives. Any fool with an internet connection can figure out in 5 minutes common paths to financial ruin:

1. Never invest in multilevel marketing schemes.
2. Never buy a timeshare.
3. Never go to an offshore medical school.
 
4) Just to add to this, UMHS was started as an investment vehicle by a small insurance company president. It was able to get its charter via one of its employees dating the brother of prime minister.
While this may sound shocking, and I have no way of knowing whether it's true, this should not surprise anyone. Where there are desperate people, there will be corruption and unethical rich people trying to become even richer by making the poor and desperate even more poor and desperate. In many cases, financially devastating a person for life.
 
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Yikes. This is really not good news.

My friend says eventually she wants to have her own practice someday. Is that feasible if she graduates from a school like UMHS?
 
Sorry... but, I'm going to go out on a limb here... I smell Troll.

-Skip
 
Yikes. This is really not good news.

My friend says eventually she wants to have her own practice someday. Is that feasible if she graduates from a school like UMHS?

It is difficult to be a physician of ANY kind if you go to St Kitts/UMHS
 
And these are the "good" schools[/QUOTE]

Well I ran by this entire thread by her and she said she's decided to trust her mentor and she's at peace with everything. This is what she's decided and that's that!
 
So my friend ran the numbers provided on this thread to her mentor..

Her mentor said she has never seen those numbers. She insists the numbers are 87-93% and that many decide to go on to do research (PhD) and not to do residency.

Is that a possibility?
 
Oh please, I put in the most accurate numbers that are reported from the US medical organizations (NRMP ACGME ECFMG) and this in an MD/PhD mentor who is avoiding actual data? And believes that many of these debt ridden med students now go for PhDs? The few who go for research are those who couldnt get a residency, cant practice clinical medicine and have no choice.

I will tell this “mentor” what I tell the reps from off shore schools. I will debate them in any public forum and show them the numbers dont lie. This MD/PhD is a f-cking idiot. Just tell me when and where

You're great :)

The few who go for research are those who couldnt get a residency, cant practice clinical medicine and have no choice."

I have a question about that. I just got my PhD in the humanities - took years. If you get your medical degree I'm ASSUMING you wouldn't have to add an additional five years to get a PhD, correct? Like I have no idea.
 
Ross and AUC are owned by DeVry Medical International, a wholly owned subsidiary Of DeVry Inc, a publicly traded company

And these are the "good" schools

It's no longer DeVry, it's Adtalem.

And, you state this like it's necessarily a bad thing. You'd better inform the following schools then, as well.

Since 2007, a handful of for-profit medical schools -- both ones that grant doctor of osteopathic medicine degrees and others that grant traditional doctor of medicine degrees -- have popped up in the U.S. Critics have shunned their corporate structures, academic rigor and debt loads that graduates sometimes incur. Advocates, on the other hand, say they provide a market need where others don’t -- or won’t -- invest, especially in rural areas that are facing physician shortages. Colorado Northstate University School of Medicine and Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine, in New Mexico, are two such examples.

The trickle of for-profit medical schools was made possible because of a 1996 legal ruling against the American Bar Association opened up the possibility of accreditation for for-profit law schools. With that legal precedent looking like it might favor for-profit medical schools as well, medical school accreditors soon abandoned similar policies that previously made forming a for-profit medical school a nonstarter.
For-profit medical schools are now operating in U.S.

-Skip
 
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So my friend ran the numbers provided on this thread to her mentor..

Her mentor said she has never seen those numbers. She insists the numbers are 87-93% and that many decide to go on to do research (PhD) and not to do residency.

Is that a possibility?

what numbers do you mean by 87-93%?
 
A carib MD will save you no time in getting a PhD. The degrees are totally different.

The carib can be a reasonable path for students who have tried and been unable to get into US schools. However, your "friend" sounds like a poor choice for this pathway. If they have trouble learning material, "small classes" in the carib are not going to help. The material comes at an amazing rate that is very hard to keep up with. Many carib school have less-than-ideal teachers (not all, but risky). As they are not US schools, they are not covered by the ADA and no accommodations need to be given. The carib is a reasonable choice for some, but the situation as you describe sounds like a set up for disaster.

Put another way: if you are not ready for a US medical school, you will not do well in a carib medical school. They are not easier, and are in no way "better" (except that they might accept you when US schools do not). If you expect small classes and hand holding to learn the material, you will be terribly wrong. Carib schools are more challenging than US schools, in general. You are much more on your own, and there are lots of additional challenges to face.
 
So my friend ran the numbers provided on this thread to her mentor..

Her mentor said she has never seen those numbers. She insists the numbers are 87-93% and that many decide to go on to do research (PhD) and not to do residency.

Is that a possibility?

Lies. Virtually no medical students (well under 5%, probably closer to 1%) actually plan for a non-clinical research career. There are a few who plan to be a physician-scientist with an 20/80 time split, but virtually everyone wants/needs the clinical component for income stability and job security. It makes absolutely zero sense to pay $300k or whatever insane amount these Caribbean cash-extractor med schools are charging these days if your goal is to become a scientist. People who want to do this get a PhD from a reputable school, and even then landing a tenure-track gig is extremely difficult requiring multiple post-doc stints. I don't even see how it is feasible with an MD from a Caribbean school.

I don't believe this "mentor" exists (it makes zero sense why any mentor would push a student towards a Caribbean med school, let alone a specific med school and claim to have access to data that is not publicly available - i.e., can make up whatever numbers he/she wants to unless he/she has some sort of kickback arrangement), and I agree that this smells like a troll post. Most likely to correlate this random for-profit med school with "high match rate" in search engine results.
 
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