Matching into fields without home department

[firsttimer123]

Lets say you go to a school with no home department in some of the fields you want that are competitive (ENT, optho,etc.). How can you rotate in order to match into the field? I know away rotations are a thing but they require more time/money/etc. How can you do this without an away rotation?

Also how can you do research in the field? More advice and insight the better.

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[firsttimer123]

bump

 

[doc05]

Lets say you go to a school with no home department in some of the fields you want that are competitive (ENT, optho,etc.). How can you rotate in order to match into the field? I know away rotations are a thing but they require more time/money/etc. How can you do this without an away rotation?

Also how can you do research in the field? More advice and insight the better.

It will be difficult. You need adequate exposure as a student to commit to a specialty. And references from people in the specialty.

You will certainly be able to do 'away' rotations in your 4th year, but obviously not the same as having a home department.

 

[firsttimer123]

It will be difficult. You need adequate exposure as a student to commit to a specialty. And references from people in the specialty.

You will certainly be able to do 'away' rotations in your 4th year, but obviously not the same as having a home department.

how do some of the low tier schools with no home departments in anything competitive match well then? like no ortho, ENT, derm, optho,etc department.

 

[doc05]

how do some of the low tier schools with no home departments in anything competitive match well then? like no ortho, ENT, derm, optho,etc department.

That's part of the reason that they don't match as well. Do you have a specific field of interest? What med school are you attending ?

 

[firsttimer123]

That's part of the reason that they don't match as well. Do you have a specific field of interest? What med school are you attending ?

I am going to be attending a SMP at rosalind franklin which has a high linkage to the school. So lets say I do well and get in the school will i be limited for my options? I am interested in ENT, but I go through the match list of the school and I see a variety of matches so I am confused. They have limited departments

 

[mcloaf]

Lets say you go to a school with no home department in some of the fields you want that are competitive (ENT, optho,etc.). How can you rotate in order to match into the field? I know away rotations are a thing but they require more time/money/etc. How can you do this without an away rotation?

Also how can you do research in the field? More advice and insight the better.

If you don't have a home program I'd expect you will need to do at least one away rotation to get a LOR in the field and have someone who has seen your clinical skills vouch for you. If you do well, your best shot at matching will be where you rotate. In some of these smaller, competitive specialties even applicants with great home programs still generally do 2-3 away rotations. It could also be disastrous for you to apply to something without doing any real rotations in it only to find out later it wasn't what you expected. Applying to residency is going to cost thousands of dollars, killing your chances of matching by not doing aways hoping to save a bit of money is not a good approach. Also, since you're going to be in a city with a bunch of programs you could theoretically do aways there and never even have to leave home.

As far as research since you're in Chicago it will be much easier for you to try to get connected to research with departments at other med schools in the area, start networking early.

Don't waste your time trying to interpret match lists.

 

[getdown]

Lets say you go to a school with no home department in some of the fields you want that are competitive (ENT, optho,etc.). How can you rotate in order to match into the field? I know away rotations are a thing but they require more time/money/etc. How can you do this without an away rotation?

Also how can you do research in the field? More advice and insight the better.

If you're thinking about doing those competitive fields, you're pretty much going to have to do away rotations. And if you have no home department it makes doing aways that much more important to match. Regardless, if you know you're interested in ENT start doing research in the field once you start medical school. A lot of people do research either in NIH or other universities in the summer between M1 and M2. You may even consider taking a gap year between M2 and M3 year to really strengthen your application by dedicating a whole year of research with a well known and prolific publish ENT surgeon. Like someone said above the good thing is that you live in Chicago and thus have 4 other medical schools that definitely do have ENT surgeons to choose from.

 

[firsttimer123]

If you don't have a home program I'd expect you will need to do at least one away rotation to get a LOR in the field and have someone who has seen your clinical skills vouch for you. If you do well, your best shot at matching will be where you rotate. In some of these smaller, competitive specialties even applicants with great home programs still generally do 2-3 away rotations. It could also be disastrous for you to apply to something without doing any real rotations in it only to find out later it wasn't what you expected. Applying to residency is going to cost thousands of dollars, killing your chances of matching by not doing aways hoping to save a bit of money is not a good approach. Also, since you're going to be in a city with a bunch of programs you could theoretically do aways there and never even have to leave home.

As far as research since you're in Chicago it will be much easier for you to try to get connected to research with departments at other med schools in the area, start networking early.

Don't waste your time trying to interpret match lists.

why do u think interpreting match lists is a bad idea? also do rotations at a community hospital provide exposure to the smaller competitive fields? I am just so surprised so many people match in fields with no home department at the school

 

[firsttimer123]

If you're thinking about doing those competitive fields, you're pretty much going to have to do away rotations. And if you have no home department it makes doing aways that much more important to match. Regardless, if you know you're interested in ENT start doing research in the field once you start medical school. A lot of people do research either in NIH or other universities in the summer between M1 and M2. You may even consider taking a gap year between M2 and M3 year to really strengthen your application by dedicating a whole year of research with a well known and prolific publish ENT surgeon. Like someone said above the good thing is that you live in Chicago and thus have 4 other medical schools that definitely do have ENT surgeons to choose from.

I have clinical and basic research experience at the moment with no pubs in basic however. my research experience is not suggestive of my speciality experience at all. Will my experience help me for residency applications at all? Is basic research or clinical preferred for residency and does the research I do have to align with my residency field or can I do basic neuroscience research during med school and still apply to ENT? It will be heard to do research at the other chicago schools since they are so far away

 

[mcloaf]

why do u think interpreting match lists is a bad idea? also do rotations at a community hospital provide exposure to the smaller competitive fields? I am just so surprised so many people match in fields with no home department at the school

Because looking from the outside you just don't have enough information to know what to make of a match list in a serious way. Did nobody go into ENT at X school because they couldn't match, or just because nobody was interested in it? You have no idea if somebody chose to go to a less prestigious program because of family/geography, or if someone who ended up at what you'd consider a "top" program fell to number 8 on their rank list. Further, top programs in a lot of fields don't necessarily align with medical school rankings.

I'm not sure what your second question is asking specifically. If you're rotating through a hospital doing a core rotation like internal medicine you're not going to be seeing ENT or ophthy regardless of whether it's a community or academic hospital. You need to do specialty specific rotations, which, again, if you don't have a program at your home hospital will have to be away rotations.

 

[firsttimer123]

Because looking from the outside you just don't have enough information to know what to make of a match list in a serious way. Did nobody go into ENT at X school because they couldn't match, or just because nobody was interested in it? You have no idea if somebody chose to go to a less prestigious program because of family/geography, or if someone who ended up at what you'd consider a "top" program fell to number 8 on their rank list. Further, top programs in a lot of fields don't necessarily align with medical school rankings.

I'm not sure what your second question is asking specifically. If you're rotating through a hospital doing a core rotation like internal medicine you're not going to be seeing ENT or ophthy regardless of whether it's a community or academic hospital. You need to do specialty specific rotations, which, again, if you don't have a program at your home hospital will have to be away rotations.

How do you know if you have a program at your core hospital? i am assuming a program at your core hospital is different than if you have a school department? wouldn't every hospital have a ENT doctor and what not. Sorry for being such a noob btw lol

 

[getdown]

I have clinical and basic research experience at the moment with no pubs in basic however. my research experience is not suggestive of my speciality experience at all. Will my experience help me for residency applications at all? Is basic research or clinical preferred for residency and does the research I do have to align with my residency field or can I do basic neuroscience research during med school and still apply to ENT? It will be heard to do research at the other chicago schools since they are so far away

Generally speaking any research experience is a good thing and not having any publications likely won't hurt you in applying for residency. However, when it comes to the competitive surgical subspecialty fields, having research in that field is a big plus and will make you more attractive to the big time academic programs. The most important determining factor however is that you have a STEP1 score above their cutoff and you have good letter of recommendations from people (even more so if their notable figures) in the field.

It honestly doesn't matter doing bench vs clinical research but the easier of the two is clinical. You can do multiple data mines and retroactive chart reviews and publish a lot of papers vs the slow bench research where you probably wont have publishable data after 2 years. Because of this most medical students prefer to do clinical research. If I were you and I had to divide my time wisely during med school, I'd choose clinical research. You won't be able to divide your time doing bench research and studying for med school. The incubations and prepping and pipetting is just too time consuming. Find a mentor in the ENT department and do clinical research.

How do you know if you have a program at your core hospital? i am assuming a program at your core hospital is different than if you have a school department? wouldn't every hospital have a ENT doctor and what not. Sorry for being such a noob btw lol

Go to your hospital website and search for ENT doctors in the directory. Or ask upper classmen or faculty. I'm sure the faculty of your school would know. Or find someone who's applying to ENT and ask.