Matching Trends and Choosing a Med School

[The JockDoc]

I wanted to post a question here becuase it seems a lot of the opinions on matching from the pre-allo forums are from premeds conjecturing without much personal experience, but that's what you guys have. I'm accepted to two med schools - Penn St and Rosalind Franklin. I'm planning on attending Penn State for what I think are good reasons. I'd do well with the rural location, I appreciate the research opportunities, and the students whom I met were generally people I want to have as classmates. On the other hand, RFU wasn't in an attractive location, had far less research, and I didn't get a good vibe from its students (I have a friend who goes there and I learned a lot from him).

But there's one big issue that is sticking with me, and that's the match list for both schools. There are a few reasons for my concern. Both schools have an enormous price tag (40k tuition), and I'm extremely concerned about repaying med school loans. There are people who claim that even 250k worth of loans is no big deal. But I think it is, especially since the interest rates are rapidly increasing this year. Certain career paths are excluded. It would be extremely difficult to repay loans as a primary care doc in a rural area for example. Specializing would make repayment significantly easier.

Additionally, I think my ideal residency would be to do orthopedic surgery back here in Seattle (UW) or along the west coast. I know that my interests could change, but for simplicity, it could be any specialty on the west coast.

RFU's match list always has people going to specialty residencies along the west coast, particularly to UW. However, PSU barely sends anyone to either the west coast, or to specialties such as ortho with only 1-3 matches/year (versus ~6 in RFU). I'm not sure how to analyze this because there is a sentiment out there that med school is med school and that you can do any residency if you do well enough at any school. But then why doesnt' PSU match well to the west coast compared to RFU - particularly with the high number of CA residents who are students there? Why the limited ortho matches when PSU has a sports med clinic and extensive ortho dept in its hospital (which RFU doesn't have)? I know that PSU is big on primary care, but that shouldn't mean that it sacrifices its' students' matches into specialties, or does it? And the board scores are similar for both schools, so that's a moot point. There must be some sort of explanation for it.

What do you guys think of this? I want to be happy with my decision for med school and I'm not feeling completely vindicated by choosing PSU in regards to the above issues. If PSU only had the same match list as RFU, I'd know for sure where I wanted to go. But that isn't the case and I'm confused on what the best decision is for me.

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[KluverBucy]

I wanted to post a question here becuase it seems a lot of the opinions on matching from the pre-allo forums are from premeds conjecturing without much personal experience, but that's what you guys have. I'm accepted to two med schools - Penn St and Rosalind Franklin. I'm planning on attending Penn State for what I think are good reasons. I'd do well with the rural location, I appreciate the research opportunities, and the students whom I met were generally people I want to have as classmates. On the other hand, RFU wasn't in an attractive location, had far less research, and I didn't get a good vibe from its students (I have a friend who goes there and I learned a lot from him).

But there's one big issue that is sticking with me, and that's the match list for both schools. There are a few reasons for my concern. Both schools have an enormous price tag (40k tuition), and I'm extremely concerned about repaying med school loans. There are people who claim that even 250k worth of loans is no big deal. But I think it is, especially since the interest rates are rapidly increasing this year. Certain career paths are excluded. It would be extremely difficult to repay loans as a primary care doc in a rural area for example. Specializing would make repayment significantly easier.

Additionally, I think my ideal residency would be to do orthopedic surgery back here in Seattle (UW) or along the west coast. I know that my interests could change, but for simplicity, it could be any specialty on the west coast.

RFU's match list always has people going to specialty residencies along the west coast, particularly to UW. However, PSU barely sends anyone to either the west coast, or to specialties such as ortho with only 1-3 matches/year (versus ~6 in RFU). I'm not sure how to analyze this because there is a sentiment out there that med school is med school and that you can do any residency if you do well enough at any school. But then why doesnt' PSU match well to the west coast compared to RFU - particularly with the high number of CA residents who are students there? Why the limited ortho matches when PSU has a sports med clinic and extensive ortho dept in its hospital (which RFU doesn't have)? I know that PSU is big on primary care, but that shouldn't mean that it sacrifices its' students' matches into specialties, or does it? And the board scores are similar for both schools, so that's a moot point. There must be some sort of explanation for it.

What do you guys think of this? I want to be happy with my decision for med school and I'm not feeling completely vindicated by choosing PSU in regards to the above issues. If PSU only had the same match list as RFU, I'd know for sure where I wanted to go. But that isn't the case and I'm confused on what the best decision is for me.

actually heard that RFU doesn't have the best reputation. i have a friend that went to med school in the Chi and said of all the schools there, it's probably the worst. but just my two cents...don't have any facts on this.

 

[The JockDoc]

actually heard that RFU doesn't have the best reputation. i have a friend that went to med school in the Chi and said of all the schools there, it's probably the worst. but just my two cents...don't have any facts on this.

RFU does seem to have a bad reputation among premeds and med students, probably because students w/ lower stats tend to go to it. Also probably becuase of the probation issue which really isn't a big deal anymore if you look into it except that it was called "probation" and that sounds scary. But in the end, med and premed's opinions are less important than residency directors, and they seem to really like RFU students as shown by the match list year after year.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

AS far as the matching question, remember that there's a HUGE amount of self-selection. Chances are that most students who would prefer PSU med school are going to be looking more regionally (NE and Mid-atlantic, maybe Great Lakes) for residencies. It doesn't mean that you can't aspire to ortho and seek to match back on the west coast from there if that is your desire.

 

[Gfunk6]

Also remember that RFU is a private university and students there will have commensurately higher debt. This may be an imporant factor in choosing one's speciality field.

 

[The JockDoc]

Also remember that RFU is a private university and students there will have commensurately higher debt. This may be an imporant factor in choosing one's speciality field.

Like I stated, PSU may as well be a private school b/c of its high tuition (40k out of state ~30k in state). There is some SERIOUS debt being dished out. And there are MORE out of state students than in-state (~75 out, 40 in) for each class.

Quite a few from out of state are from california as well, which is a trend similar to many other east coast schools that take in out of state applicants. Chances are at least some want to go back to cali for residencies. So I don't buy the self-selecting or the lower debt arguments.

 

[linden]

If you go to PSU, do away electives during your 3rd and 4th year in CA or on the west coast. Some specialties seem to interview geographically but location of aways seems to open up other regions of the country.

 

[chicamedica]

Also, if you go to PSU and dont mind staying on the east coast for residency, you could easily do an ortho elective at Pitt (like 1.5-2 hrs away), which has one of the top orthopedic surg departments in the country.

 

[phatfarm]

Also, if you go to PSU and dont mind staying on the east coast for residency, you could easily do an ortho elective at Pitt (like 1.5-2 hrs away), which has one of the top orthopedic surg departments in the country.

That's a great idea, Chica. I'm sure a LOR from Pitt ortho would open a lot of doors, even on the west coast.

 

[wtwei02]

This year for ortho, PSU sent 1 to Case Western, 1 to Pitt, 1 to UC-Davis, 2 via military match. If you're interested in ortho, you shouldn't have any trouble as long as you have the board scores and grades. As far as Cali, about a dozen people going to california for anything from Derm to Ob-gyn. As stated before, while PSU won't open any doors for you like the Harvards or the Hopkins, you will get a solid educational experience, and you can match into any speciality as long as you have the numbers for it.

 

[Astrocyte]

Surprising to some, top docs or reseachers are spred out everywhere. They follow money and position availability. Sure places like MGH/JHU/UCSF probably have more than anywhere else, but how many LOR do you need to get your foot in the door? Maybe PSU or RFU has top people trained and well-connected at places like MGH/JHU/UCSF, and their letter alone might get you interviews there.
I would suggest thinking about your possible specialty and look up who's who in this field, where they are, and what they are doing there. This way you can make a more informed decision, rather than just going by hearsay and 'reputation' of program.

 

[yaah]

Evaluate match lists with a high degree of suspicion. I am generally astounded when pre-meds base their decision on med school to such a high degree on the school's match list. I see often their decisionmaking process going as:

1) Location
2) Prestige/Ranking
3) Match list

Only then do they consider factors that are truly important, like DO THEY WANT TO GO THERE, and what their career plans are, what the teaching is like at the school, tuition and other benefits, etc.

The match list is an easy thing to look at because it is usually out there and it seems like it HAS to be significant. But bear in mind that not everyone wants a ophtho residency at mass eye and ear. And if a med school doesn't match a lot of people into neurosurgery that doesn't mean you can't match it. Certain med schools, to be sure, will emphasize primary care and thus will try to select applicants who favor those fields. And they often do a good job of teaching it and make it an attractive career, thus more graduates go into it. This isn't a weakness. Your education is for the most part up to you. Most med schools in this country are solid, otherwise they wouldn't be accredited. Your true learning will take place in residency.

Going to a "top 5" med school doesn't mean squat if you are counting on the name alone to open doors for you. What will open doors for you is hard work combined with good references and grades/scores.

Where will you be happiest? This is likely where you will do the best. Almost every premed's career path changes about 50 times during the course of med school. To be sure, there are a few who end up going into what they told the admissions committee was their choice at the time, but they are the minority. You will find as you explore things that certain areas appeal to you and others are not what you expected.

As a med student, I encoutered quite a few students from other med schools in massachusetts (I went to UMass). They were all pretty much the same. Harvard students were just as likely to be clueless as BU students, and just as likely to be impressive. It depends on the student. You can tell quickly, however, who the students are who care about such things. Most people, once you get into residency, don't really care where you went to med school unless they have a connection there themselves and want to talk about it.

What does matter is where you want to train. If you want to do a residency in NYC, you are probably advised to choose a NYC school over a Texas school, for example. Program directors by default are more likely to be familiar with local med schools and the people that are writing references. Does that mean you can't go to California for residency if you do med school in Massachusetts? There were a few people in my graduating class who matched out there, in various different fields, both competitive and not as competitive.

Evaluate your choices carefully, and try to weed out the bull**** because it can get excessive.

 

[fourthyearmed]

Remember, maybe not as many people matched in Ortho because not that many people at that school were interested in doing Ortho. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to get a spot if you went there. Residency choices are based much more on personal choices than on what's the very best residency in the very best school that I can get. By the way, most people don't end up doing what they enter med school wanting to do!

 

[14022]

A couple thoughts. I know RFU has a huge class. Is it a lot bigger than PSU. That alone could account for the higher numbers.

Also, RFU is a school well known to accept a lot of out of staters, particularly those from california, since they have a hard time getting into their state school. That may be why a lot choose to go back out west. I would assume, although do not know for sure, that a lot of people at PSU may originally be from out east and want to stay there.

And by the way, so many students forget the most improtant part about matching and match lists and choosing a med school. Even though PSU sends more students to ortho, if you go there and suck, hell if you go to Harvard or Hopkins and suck, you are not getting into ortho. On the other hand, if you go to any other medical school and do really well, you will get into ortho. As someone mentioned, RFU does have a pretty awful reputation, but many of their students match very well every year. It is because they work hard and do well on objective measures, such as board exams. Your fate is ultimately in your hands. Prestige is all fine and dandy but it will never make up for a poor academic record. I strongly believe that those who go to Harvard and Hopkins match well because they were frickin smart to begin with. They would have done well at any school. If you happen to find students from these schools with a 206 step 1 and no honors on their transcript, they are not getting into ortho.

Bottom line. Go where you will be happy and work hard while you are there. If you aren't happy and you don't work hard, then you won't likely do very well and it will compromise your future success.

 

[doctorsquared]

Bottom line. Go where you will be happy and work hard while you are there. If you aren't happy and you don't work hard, then you won't likely do very well and it will compromise your future success.[/QUOTE]

I agree. The first hurdle is doing well in medical school and board exams. Go where you are comfortable and you will increase your chances. Outrotate in your third year to ortho programs you want to go to. You have time for a specialty decision and for now I think it is important to choose a medical school that you will enjoy and learn as much as you can. Go with your gut, worry about the money later.

 

[thos]

If matching is an important factor in your decision, try to find out what percentage of the class matched in their first choice. I think that's more important than whether a certain number went to this state or that. I doubt all schools publicize this info, but I'm sure they all keep track. Ours usually puts something in the Match Day press release like "95% of the Class of 2006 matched in one of their top 3 choices." Anyway, it couldn't hurt to ask if they'll give you this info.