Math or Mol&Cell Bio as second major

[akaYoungSkrilla]

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Hey all! I'm currently a rising junior Chemistry and Math double major with biochem minor. I'm planning to switch the chemistry to biochemistry since I've officially decided to pursue med school over grad school for chemistry, so I'll save my self the hassle of all the advanced chemistry labs and get to take all the chem/biochem lectures I wanted to anyways. So here's the deal: I'm four classes out from finishing my math major, and I'm also about 4 classes out from finishing a molecular and cellular biology major (lots of overlap with biochem). My question to you guys is which you think I should pursue. I have a 4.0 cGPA and I know I can get A's in the rest of the math classes I need, and I don't think I'd have any problem with the MCB classes I'd need either.

To me, the math major might look a little more interesting to an adcom because a 4.0 math student is probably pretty uncommon for med school, but the MCB would allow me to take some interesting classes (neurophysio, endocrine physio, etc) as electives, and the knowledge would obviously be more applicable to a medical career.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Hmm I'd say Math It looks more interesting. Some people don't have a good background in Math (4.0 Math GPA) and a lot of Med school applicants take upper level courses in MCB. Besides I think you'll be taught the essentials of neuro and endocrine physiology in med school anyways.

 

[JESSFALLING]

Choose math. You can always become a medical actuary if you don't like med.

 

[Lil Mick]

I'm biased, so I'm going to say mathematics. Those courses teach you to think about problems in ways that you will not learn during your medical education, and it's helped me analyze problems from a different perspective in our organ module problem sets. If for no other reason, math classes are amazing and something you won't be able to take again (unless you're MD/PhD in math--yay!), while you will have all of the biology you can stand and more once you enter medical school.

I would recommend a course in topology or abstract algebra, if those are options for you. They really challenge you to turn around problems and extend what you've already learned to new problems and new dimensions 🙂

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Thanks for the input guys. Another question: Since I have four classes left , I was thinking of taking all four my senior year (two each term). That would mean no math classes for me this year, which isn't ideal but I'll be in more medically relevant classes that'll prepare me for the MCAT, which I plan to take at the end of winter break this year. Would it look bad to an adcom if I didn't take any math classes for a full year? I've already taken probably 8 math classes in two years, and I started in vector calc so I'm pretty far into math by now.

I think my last four classes are going to be real analysis, theory of probability, theory of statistics, and stochastic processes. If I feel motivated enough to take more classes my senior year, I'll definitely be taking abstract algrebra and possible another elective for fun, but I'll probably end up opting for a super easy senior year 🙂

 

[Naijaba]

Thanks for the input guys. Another question: Since I have four classes left , I was thinking of taking all four my senior year (two each term). That would mean no math classes for me this year, which isn't ideal but I'll be in more medically relevant classes that'll prepare me for the MCAT, which I plan to take at the end of winter break this year. Would it look bad to an adcom if I didn't take any math classes for a full year? I've already taken probably 8 math classes in two years, and I started in vector calc so I'm pretty far into math by now.

I think my last four classes are going to be real analysis, theory of probability, theory of statistics, and stochastic processes. If I feel motivated enough to take more classes my senior year, I'll definitely be taking abstract algrebra and possible another elective for fun, but I'll probably end up opting for a super easy senior year 🙂

OP, do math, and here's why:

As compared to all other majors, math and statistics majors have...wait for it...

The *highest* average GPAs (tied with humanities majors)
The *highest* average physical science MCAT subsection scores
The *highest* average biological science scores
The *second highest* average Verbal Reasoning scores

My conclusion? Mathematics blows other majors away in terms of med. skool admissions!!

SOURCE: https://www.aamc.org/download/161692/data/table18-facts2010mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf.pdf

EDIT: I should also mention that only 386 applicants majored in math and statistics, so as far as uniqueness goes, math is very unique.

 

[Lil Mick]

I don't think it will matter when you take the classes (on AMCAS, you can designate future classes), but I'd consider taking maybe one a semester anyway. I've never liked semesters where all of my classes focus on the same area of study (biochem, for example), and it was easier to finish my work in time for other things when I had the variety of classes and more that I enjoyed taking. BTW, the stats courses will definitely help you when you're reading articles on different areas of medicine 🙂

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Thanks guys. That's interesting to see that math majors do so well on the MCAT. I'd say it's because math requires almost entirely thinking and understanding rather than rote memory, like many science classes require.

One last question to you all (rather than starting a new thread): I've been reading over the requirements for the schools I want to go to (Stanford mostly, though I'll definitely apply to Hopkins, Harvard, and probably Duke and a few California schools). In high school I took something like 12 AP exams and got 5's, so I got out of a ton of gen-ed type classes. Unfortunately for me, most med schools require ~24 units of humanities/social sciences/etc., but I only need 4 gen-eds total that apply to these types of courses, so that's only 12 units. So how stringent are med schools on this topic? Will I need to take more of those types of classes to make up for my deficit, or should I be fine since I have so much AP credit?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[flatearth22]

OP, do math, and here's why:

As compared to all other majors, math and statistics majors have...wait for it...

The *highest* average GPAs (tied with humanities majors)
The *highest* average physical science MCAT subsection scores
The *highest* average biological science scores
The *second highest* average Verbal Reasoning scores

My conclusion? Mathematics blows other majors away in terms of med. skool admissions!!

SOURCE: https://www.aamc.org/download/161692/data/table18-facts2010mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf.pdf

EDIT: I should also mention that only 386 applicants majored in math and statistics, so as far as uniqueness goes, math is very unique.

Reasoning fail.

Correlation =! Causation.

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Bump on my last question! Anyone have any input? Thanks🙂

EDIT: Sorry, I'm referring to this question:

"One last question to you all (rather than starting a new thread): I've been reading over the requirements for the schools I want to go to (Stanford mostly, though I'll definitely apply to Hopkins, Harvard, and probably Duke and a few California schools). In high school I took something like 12 AP exams and got 5's, so I got out of a ton of gen-ed type classes. Unfortunately for me, most med schools require ~24 units of humanities/social sciences/etc., but I only need 4 gen-eds total that apply to these types of courses, so that's only 12 units. So how stringent are med schools on this topic? Will I need to take more of those types of classes to make up for my deficit, or should I be fine since I have so much AP credit?"

 

[ridethecliche]

Math.

Cost effectiveness research is pretty big right now and if you've taken math and an econometrics class or two, you'll be way ahead of the curve in terms of modeling etc.

 

[Long Way to Go]

Reasoning fail.

Correlation =! Causation.

It's ironic because that phrase comes from a mathematical subfield 🙄

 

[deleted393595]

Hey all! I'm currently a rising junior Chemistry and Math double major with biochem minor. I'm planning to switch the chemistry to biochemistry since I've officially decided to pursue med school over grad school for chemistry, so I'll save my self the hassle of all the advanced chemistry labs and get to take all the chem/biochem lectures I wanted to anyways. So here's the deal: I'm four classes out from finishing my math major, and I'm also about 4 classes out from finishing a molecular and cellular biology major (lots of overlap with biochem). My question to you guys is which you think I should pursue. I have a 4.0 cGPA and I know I can get A's in the rest of the math classes I need, and I don't think I'd have any problem with the MCB classes I'd need either.

To me, the math major might look a little more interesting to an adcom because a 4.0 math student is probably pretty uncommon for med school, but the MCB would allow me to take some interesting classes (neurophysio, endocrine physio, etc) as electives, and the knowledge would obviously be more applicable to a medical career.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

Do whatever you enjoy, but you don't have to overburden yourself with a double major. Also, adding another major might mean that you have less time for your ECs, and ECs > Additional Major.

 

[KTownGT]

Reasoning fail.

Correlation =! Causation.

Also doesn't take into account every slap dick Biology "Pre-Med" who takes the MCAT without adequately preparing.

OP, use your stats skills and drop the lowest SD of each major!

 

[circulus vitios]

I have a 4.0 cGPA and I know I can get A's in the rest of the math classes I need

That's pretty bold.

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

That's pretty bold.

Yeah that does sound pretty cocky. However, the classes I will be taking (only four more of them), are ones that I'm very well prepared for. I have already taken the class that is supposed to be the hardest of my required math classes (for my school), except possibly real analysis, but I have already had an analysis course, so hopefully with enough work I should be fine 🙂 Even if I do get one or two B's, my GPA will stay above a 3.9 because I have an insane amount of credits from taking a bunch of now useless classes because I've changed my major so many times!

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Do whatever you enjoy, but you don't have to overburden yourself with a double major. Also, adding another major might mean that you have less time for your ECs, and ECs > Additional Major.

What do you guys think about this? I was actually thinking about just doing a Math major and do biochem and chem minors. That would save me A LOT of time. That would be like 5-6 less classes, and not require a senior thesis = much less stress + more time to do ECs and actually ENJOY my last two years of college. The only downside is that I want to stay competitive for top schools, particularly Stanford and Hopkins, as well as UCSF and some others. So would not having a senior Honors thesis and not having the double major with biochem hurt me, if the trade off was more ECs and such?

 

[JESSFALLING]

What do you guys think about this? I was actually thinking about just doing a Math major and do biochem and chem minors. That would save me A LOT of time. That would be like 5-6 less classes, and not require a senior thesis = much less stress + more time to do ECs and actually ENJOY my last two years of college. The only downside is that I want to stay competitive for top schools, particularly Stanford and Hopkins, as well as UCSF and some others. So would not having a senior Honors thesis and not having the double major with biochem hurt me, if the trade off was more ECs and such?

I would just recommended taking (if you haven't already) one semester of physical chemistry, along with your minor(s), as it's a recommended course at Stanford. Fortunately, you have the math background to do great in the course. Question though: will your university allow you to minor in both biochem & chem?...since there's a lot of overlap? If not, I'd pick up the biochem minor since it's less common. Are you applying MD only, or MSTP?

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

I would just recommended taking (if you haven't already) one semester of physical chemistry, along with your minor(s), as it's a recommended course at Stanford. Fortunately, you have the math background to do great in the course. Question though: will your university allow you to minor in both biochem & chem?...since there's a lot of overlap? If not, I'd pick up the biochem minor since it's less common. Are you applying MD only, or MSTP?

Yeah I'm already enrolled in PChem for this next semester. I talked with the department and the minors allow double dipping, but I have already satisfied the chem minor with Analytical chem + PChem as electives, and the biochem minor I will be satisfying with a full year upper division biochem sequence + a 1 semester advanced nucleic acids course.

As far as MSTP goes, I honestly haven't decided yet. I love research, but I don't know if it's worth it to me to delay my career for the PhD because I'm very family-oriented and don't really want to be a resident with kids. I think I will probably opt for just a straight MD at a research med school, and then possibly apply for a year research fellowship. That's all speculation though because I don't know what my med school experience will be like obviously, and I may end up applying for MSTP come next year, we'll see!

 

[Lil Mick]

Are you doing EC's? If you're involved in things, have clinical experience, and have some leadership experience, it really doesn't matter, especially if you're spending time doing a thesis (research points there)...

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Are you doing EC's? If you're involved in things, have clinical experience, and have some leadership experience, it really doesn't matter, especially if you're spending time doing a thesis (research points there)...

I do research in a chem/biochem lab, am volunteering at a hospital in a research associates program in the emergency department, and do some other volunteering with my fraternity. If I drop to just the single major, I will likely run for a leadership role, possibly in my fraternity (does anyone know if that's looked down since it's a Greek social fraternity?). Also, I think I will do better on my MCAT since I'll have more time to study, so that's another bonus.

However, if I drop to just the math major, I won't be doing the senior Honors thesis, but I will likely get published in my research group by the time I graduate, especially if I have more time to dedicate to it with less course load. I'd think published papers would outweigh some honors thesis that no one cares about, and having a second major on my diploma.

EDIT: I also recently made a major connection shadowing an attending hem/onc who went to Hopkins, and I will hopefully be able to keep that shadowing/relationship up because he wants to hook me up with some of his colleagues at Standord, so that could be HUGE for getting my foot in the door. I would be able to shadow more regularly if I took on only one major, so that's another plus...

 

[Naijaba]

Reasoning fail.

Correlation =! Causation.

I'd like you to explain this further. IMO, mathematics *is* the cause that produces the correlation.

That is to say, taking many mathematics courses improves one's ability to reason.---> higher MCAT scores in all areas

and

Mathematics majors do well in mathematics courses, producing higher GPAs.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

One question: Do you go to UF? You sound like my cousin that has almost the same stats as you.

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

One question: Do you go to UF? You sound like my cousin that has almost the same stats as you.

Nope!

 

[Long Way to Go]

I'd like you to explain this further. IMO, mathematics *is* the cause that produces the correlation.

That is to say, taking many mathematics courses improves one's ability to reason.---> higher MCAT scores in all areas

and

Mathematics majors do well in mathematics courses, producing higher GPAs.

Perhaps. But math weeds out a lot of people I think. First because some are intimidated by it, and also because you can't memorize your way through analysis, algebra, and toplogy. The top English majors are probably entirely on par with math majors, and they too have had to reason quite a bit. But it's a lot easier to BS your way through English. IMO, at least.

 

[Lil Mick]

As far as MSTP goes, I honestly haven't decided yet. I love research, but I don't know if it's worth it to me to delay my career for the PhD because I'm very family-oriented and don't really want to be a resident with kids. I think I will probably opt for just a straight MD at a research med school, and then possibly apply for a year research fellowship. That's all speculation though because I don't know what my med school experience will be like obviously, and I may end up applying for MSTP come next year, we'll see!

We have several people with families in my program (and the places at which I interviewed). They generally do research residencies (clinical and research woven into the program), which allow you to have a more flexible schedule 🙂

Also, some programs would let you pursue chemistry or math as a PhD, if that's the sort of research that you want to do (probably would need that to establish a lab/teach in those areas). PM me if you want to talk more. I'm MD/PhD and planning to pursue a field of math for my PhD 🙂

As for your schedule for next year, if you need the time to do well on the MCAT, go for the major and two minors. You already have sufficient research (even if you do wind up MD/PhD) and could probably do more after you take the MCAT if you decide to go that route. It sounds like you already have good ECs, though 🙂

 

[Porfirio]

Hey all! I'm currently a rising junior Chemistry and Math double major with biochem minor. I'm planning to switch the chemistry to biochemistry since I've officially decided to pursue med school over grad school for chemistry, so I'll save my self the hassle of all the advanced chemistry labs and get to take all the chem/biochem lectures I wanted to anyways. So here's the deal: I'm four classes out from finishing my math major, and I'm also about 4 classes out from finishing a molecular and cellular biology major (lots of overlap with biochem). My question to you guys is which you think I should pursue. I have a 4.0 cGPA and I know I can get A's in the rest of the math classes I need, and I don't think I'd have any problem with the MCB classes I'd need either.

To me, the math major might look a little more interesting to an adcom because a 4.0 math student is probably pretty uncommon for med school, but the MCB would allow me to take some interesting classes (neurophysio, endocrine physio, etc) as electives, and the knowledge would obviously be more applicable to a medical career.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

To be honest, Biochemistry and MCB mix very well. I think I would major in Biochemistry and MCB. However, I am bias because I wish I had been a MCB major instead of plain-jane Biology.

Math is a great major, but I love science.

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

To be honest, Biochemistry and MCB mix very well. I think I would major in Biochemistry and MCB. However, I am bias because I wish I had been a MCB major instead of plain-jane Biology.

Math is a great major, but I love science.

I love both science and math, which is why I've changed my major I think 8 times now - I just can't settle on one field. I think though that studying math would be ideal for me because I'm good at it and not very many people going to med school are good at higher level math, and I just enjoy it.

I'll be taking a full year of upper-division MCB (genetics + cell & developmental bio) this year anyways because I APed out of introductory bio. On top of that, I'll have 3 semesters of biochem and a decent amount of chemistry tacked on, even if I only do the math major and biochem and chem minors. I think all my coursework will have me sufficiently set up for med school, where I'll learn all the physio an bio and such that I could ever want to know.

Really the only thing keeping me from just saying screw it and opting for the math major and double minor over the double major is that I'm worried I won't be competitive for top 10 schools. Now that I think about it though, I think getting published in my group would be far more of a benefit than a senior honors thesis, and having extra free time for ECs and fun would be beneficial too.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

^ changed you major 8 times officially? It may look to the adcoms as kind of indecisive...

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

^ changed you major 8 times officially? It may look to the adcoms as kind of indecisive...

No no no, I think only 3 of them come up on my transcript. I changed 8 times in the sense that I kept thinking I was going to do this, then that, blah blah blah. I've only officially changed I think 3 times, but I plan to address my indecisiveness in my personal statement anyways because a lot of my major changing has coincided with a personal/family crisis that I've been going through over the past year, which I'll talk about in the new biography section on the AMCAS. I would hope they'll understand.

 

[HolySmokes]

We have several people with families in my program (and the places at which I interviewed). They generally do research residencies (clinical and research woven into the program), which allow you to have a more flexible schedule 🙂

Also, some programs would let you pursue chemistry or math as a PhD, if that's the sort of research that you want to do (probably would need that to establish a lab/teach in those areas). PM me if you want to talk more. I'm MD/PhD and planning to pursue a field of math for my PhD 🙂

As for your schedule for next year, if you need the time to do well on the MCAT, go for the major and two minors. You already have sufficient research (even if you do wind up MD/PhD) and could probably do more after you take the MCAT if you decide to go that route. It sounds like you already have good ECs, though 🙂

Do most programs offer the option of pursuing a math PhD? It seems like that would be a hard sell as far as relating it to medicine.

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Do most programs offer the option of pursuing a math PhD? It seems like that would be a hard sell as far as relating it to medicine.

I think trying to do a PhD in pure math for MD/PhD would be pretty tough to sell, but applied math in biostats and such is pretty popular these days. At my university, there is a math professor who models blood flows and diffusion processes, and has written some epidemiology models as well.

I'm not really interested in that though, I think if I were to do a combined program it would be MD/MBA over MD/PhD, but I might just do straight MD. I just want to do math as undergrad because I like math, and I'm getting plenty of other prep from other courses for MD studies. I just can't decide if I should keep the double major with biochem or just do math, and have a few minors. Choices choices choices!

 

[Lil Mick]

No, there aren't many places (about a dozen) that allow pure/applied mathematics as an option for a PhD (in one of those right now). A lot of current theoretical research in mathematics actually can be applied to help solve problems in other fields (biophysics, epidemiology, radiology, genetics to name a few). However, there aren't many who decide to do something along these lines (usually engineering or biophysics).

PM me if you're interested in pursuing a field of mathematics in an MD/PhD program 🙂

 

[n3xa]

I'm biased, so I'm going to say mathematics. Those courses teach you to think about problems in ways that you will not learn during your medical education, and it's helped me analyze problems from a different perspective in our organ module problem sets. If for no other reason, math classes are amazing and something you won't be able to take again (unless you're MD/PhD in math--yay!), while you will have all of the biology you can stand and more once you enter medical school.

I would recommend a course in topology or abstract algebra, if those are options for you. They really challenge you to turn around problems and extend what you've already learned to new problems and new dimensions 🙂

I always thought the math department was a lot more chill too compared to the sciences. My only regret was loving math too late in the game and only going for a math minor.

 

[physicsnerd42]

I haven't read any of the replies but I'm guessing this goes against what many are saying: Don't do a second major. In the future, no one other than you will care what your second major was (or even that you had a second major). There is also an opportunity cost to the second major: you miss out on chances to take classes that you'll never have the opportunity to take again. Take philosophy, ethics, history, poli sci, art religion, etc. classes instead. If you're really inclined to, take a couple of math and a couple of molecular biology.

 

[akaYoungSkrilla]

Thanks for the reply. That was actually the idea that came up in the middle of this thread and I'm honestly strongly considering it. I'm torn between completing the math major and completing the biochemistry major. Whichever one I don't major in, I'll minor in, and I've already completed my chemistry minor. I think I'll probably do the math major, mostly because it's more uncommon, and also because I love math, and will get to learn all the biochem I want with just the minor (2 semesters + advanced nucleic acids semester).

The only possible downside is if I decide that I do want to graduate with Honors, I might not be able to write an Honors thesis from the work I do in my lab for the math department. I think though that math would allow me more time to pursue ECs and get even more involved in my research and hopefully start getting published, which would look much better than some obscure senior Honors thesis.

Any ideas?

I haven't read any of the replies but I'm guessing this goes against what many are saying: Don't do a second major. In the future, no one other than you will care what your second major was (or even that you had a second major). There is also an opportunity cost to the second major: you miss out on chances to take classes that you'll never have the opportunity to take again. Take philosophy, ethics, history, poli sci, art religion, etc. classes instead. If you're really inclined to, take a couple of math and a couple of molecular biology.

 

[Naijaba]

I haven't read any of the replies but I'm guessing this goes against what many are saying: Don't do a second major. In the future, no one other than you will care what your second major was (or even that you had a second major). There is also an opportunity cost to the second major: you miss out on chances to take classes that you'll never have the opportunity to take again. Take philosophy, ethics, history, poli sci, art religion, etc. classes instead. If you're really inclined to, take a couple of math and a couple of molecular biology.

There is a problem with this logic -- taking one or two classes will only provide you with a superficial understanding of a content area.

This is best exemplified in mathematics. Lower-division math will teach you calculus at its most basic level -- derivates and integrals of well defined functions. You'll understand what it means for a function to change and how derivatives quantify the rate of that change.

If you continue to take courses in applied math, you'll learn a bit more -- first using MATLAB to calculate a discrete derivative of an unknown function. And then, later on, how to implement MATLAB's functions yourself.

At the end of this journey you will be able to solve real problems like:

I've got a 1,000 images with small dots in them from my lab work, how to write an algorithm to count the dots that pass a given threshold...?

It's a simplistic example -- and I don't know if humanities / philosophy / ethics exhibit a similar depth the higher up you go in coursework -- but you should ask yourself what level of understanding you seek to obtain?

 

[physicsnerd42]

There is a problem with this logic -- taking one or two classes will only provide you with a superficial understanding of a content area.

This is best exemplified in mathematics. Lower-division math will teach you calculus at its most basic level -- derivates and integrals of well defined functions. You'll understand what it means for a function to change and how derivatives quantify the rate of that change.

If you continue to take courses in applied math, you'll learn a bit more -- first using MATLAB to calculate a discrete derivative of an unknown function. And then, later on, how to implement MATLAB's functions yourself.

At the end of this journey you will be able to solve real problems like:

I've got a 1,000 images with small dots in them from my lab work, how to write an algorithm to count the dots that pass a given threshold...?

It's a simplistic example -- and I don't know if humanities / philosophy / ethics exhibit a similar depth the higher up you go in coursework -- but you should ask yourself what level of understanding you seek to obtain?

I'm advocating for breadth, not depth. You'll have plenty of depth in med school. I think the purpose of undergrad is to make "T-shaped" people: people who have some expertise in one area (their major) and broad/shallow knowledge about other areas.

 

[Lil Mick]

Not your liberal arts school whose honors program requires you to major in philosophy 🙂

Personally, I liked having four areas of concentration and going into another for my PhD--plenty of interdisciplinary expertise and depth in a few different fields.

Also, philosophy programs do challenge you to think in the same depth and creativity that research in mathematics necessitates. It might not be practical problem solving, but the theortical aspects of philosophy definitely mirror the pure mathematics sort of problems--just look at some of the famous mathematicians who were also philosophers 🙂